Make power node fun in gameplay ?
oldassgamers
Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">(-_-) How how how how how??? <(^_^<)</div>Please don't take topic as any kind of negativity. Even if it's sound so... Want just to start by informing YOU who's reading this that <b>NS2 IS THE MOST EPIC GAME EVER, PERIOD</b>! End of discussion....
Anyways, about the power node issue. Been playing everday since last week and I get so pissed when a onos rush in and destroy the power node in mather of seconds and all marines are screwed. Its hard at current beta stage to guard the base and at the same time push out. Because you want at least 90 % fighting while 2 marines defend a specific area for example. And yes its "beta" everything will be balance in the future but...
All im just trying to say is that I wish it was like NS1, where power was not the issue. I just hate it :( Please no comments about players should be better to defend their base, etc etc. It's not that, it's about it doesn't fit the gameplay somehow. Giving the BACON ( not the beacon ) , i like to so bacon. Giving the bacon a useless function, which was vital in NS1 and it's also confusing not to know what power note goes to what area of the map, so when droping an armory you don't know which power note it's linked to the area.
NS1 was perfect as it was, but it was still unbalance because of no alien comm, but now we got alien comm so its balance again :P
Anyways, about the power node issue. Been playing everday since last week and I get so pissed when a onos rush in and destroy the power node in mather of seconds and all marines are screwed. Its hard at current beta stage to guard the base and at the same time push out. Because you want at least 90 % fighting while 2 marines defend a specific area for example. And yes its "beta" everything will be balance in the future but...
All im just trying to say is that I wish it was like NS1, where power was not the issue. I just hate it :( Please no comments about players should be better to defend their base, etc etc. It's not that, it's about it doesn't fit the gameplay somehow. Giving the BACON ( not the beacon ) , i like to so bacon. Giving the bacon a useless function, which was vital in NS1 and it's also confusing not to know what power note goes to what area of the map, so when droping an armory you don't know which power note it's linked to the area.
NS1 was perfect as it was, but it was still unbalance because of no alien comm, but now we got alien comm so its balance again :P
Comments
Block powernode just like you block ur entrance in StarCraft.
But maybe the only building that works without a powerNode should be the IPs?
With DI as it is it allows aliens to prevent marine structures on their home turf which i think is a step up from the NS1 days. Power nodes on the other hand add another layer to the marine building strategy that is unneeded. Sure the lighting is cool when it gets busted up but that isn't enough reason to keep it in. Just allow for the lighting effect of a powered down room be triggered by DI covering 75%+ of the room. You still keep the hard work of the effect of a destroyed power node but remove the annoying structure.
*edit* or have DI be the only thing that can damage a Power Node. Say 10-20 dps?
I think one of the key things that UWE wanted to accomplish above all else was to give the player a clear indication of who owns what, and to have this change as map control changes. From what I can tell, this is what the power node seeks to accomplish.
Roughly it goes:
Lights on = marine
lights off room empty = no mans land
lights off infested = aliens
At the moment I have a feeling that it is very much an atmospheric thing, and if they can find a way to cut the power nodes while still conveying this notion of territory they will do it. While usually game play is king above all else, in this case I don't think it is and I don't think it should be.
For Example, Marines may turret farm some spot, and the only way for aliens to win would be to attack a power node.
However, if im playing aliens, I would rather take down the RT instead of power node.
Enless there are 2nodes in 1 room, then take the node first.
I think one of the key things that UWE wanted to accomplish above all else was to give the player a clear indication of who owns what, and to have this change as map control changes. From what I can tell, this is what the power node seeks to accomplish.
Roughly it goes:
Lights on = marine
lights off room empty = no mans land
lights off infested = aliens
At the moment I have a feeling that it is very much an atmospheric thing, and if they can find a way to cut the power nodes while still conveying this notion of territory they will do it. While usually game play is king above all else, in this case I don't think it is and I don't think it should be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this. Its good to have clear boundaries, and helps direct players who aren't entirely in tune with their team to at least stay and defend 'their land'.
What cysts and power nodes need though is some sort of automation, so both sides aren't constantly killing these static, defenseless objects.
Perhaps power nodes should become enabled when any marine building is present. The power nodes themselves become immortal, and killing marine structures turns off the lights. (however this does make turret farming more powerful)
On the other side, maybe cysts should automatically grow towards allied buildings. Perhaps even some sort of bonus to the structures once the infestation reaches it? Of course the alien commander would need more to do, more ways to be involved in the team, instead of having the job of just spreading the infestation he has now (which is rather detatched and boring).
Edit: Cysts die back once a structure they grew towards is destroyed, steadily receeding to their origin.
For Example, Marines may turret farm some spot, and the only way for aliens to win would be to attack a power node.
However, if im playing aliens, I would rather take down the RT instead of power node.
Enless there are 2nodes in 1 room, then take the node first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are rarely turrets in a room NOT facing a power node to prevent what you describe. Onos can already AoE power down buildings if turtling is such an issue.
Portable power packs were removed a while back as they were easily abusable for impenetrable turret defenses and making powernodes pointless. Although they were brought up again somewhat recently as the devs were thinking about using them for sneaky build purposes.
Ns2 design log page:
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/10T9oRhmNdZ3bWGceLDbnZ2wQDN2pbbwc9aAccL72FJA/edit" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/10T9oRhm...aAccL72FJA/edit</a>
I think one of the key things that UWE wanted to accomplish above all else was to give the player a clear indication of who owns what, and to have this change as map control changes. From what I can tell, this is what the power node seeks to accomplish.
Roughly it goes:
Lights on = marine
lights off room empty = no mans land
lights off infested = aliens
At the moment I have a feeling that it is very much an atmospheric thing, and if they can find a way to cut the power nodes while still conveying this notion of territory they will do it. While usually game play is king above all else, in this case I don't think it is and I don't think it should be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The obvious solution would be to change the condition for the lightning state to whether or not a marine or alien resource tower is present in the area.
Keeps the atmosphere and gets rid of the tiresome powernode gameplay.
Keeps the atmosphere and gets rid of the tiresome powernode gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1, simple and adds more to the importance of RTs (Extractors...).
Keeps the atmosphere and gets rid of the tiresome powernode gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1.
It makes sense too, Harvesters sucking the power and Extractors acting as power generators/resource refineries.
On the Alien side when you place a resource node infestation should grow to it from the hive over time...
For Example, Marines may turret farm some spot, and the only way for aliens to win would be to attack a power node.
However, if im playing aliens, I would rather take down the RT instead of power node.
Enless there are 2nodes in 1 room, then take the node first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a greate idea because the game becomes linear. Alien will always charge the power node, over & over again. Which will evantually break the fun of a gameplay.
<b> I want to be free like a bird and drop structurs around the map, been able to ninja like OLD NS style. </b>
Just try ns1, i beg you and you'll see how amazing it its. Both to gameplay and teamplay. its an amazing experience...
Darkness gives a clear advantage to the alien team. Show me one player who thinks otherwise.
This is dumb, you shouldn't have to play the game like this and "cheese" things.
I suppose you also think you should drop armouries in the way of onos to stop them running out of your base aswell so you can kill them?
<!--quoteo(post=1916503:date=Mar 22 2012, 06:31 PM:name=oldassgamers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (oldassgamers @ Mar 22 2012, 06:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916503"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not a greate idea because the game becomes linear. Alien will always charge the power node, over & over again. Which will evantually break the fun of a gameplay.
<b> I want to be free like a bird and drop structurs around the map, been able to ninja like OLD NS style. </b>
Just try ns1, i beg you and you'll see how amazing it its. Both to gameplay and teamplay. its an amazing experience...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Personally I hate the power node mechanic, it's the biggest disappointment from NS>NS2 for me. Nobody ever bothers to build structures in non-hive or non-key rooms because of the power node thing making it take too much time or making it too vulnerable. There are rooms people build in, say like Computer Lab, but aside from the few "key" rooms like that, everything is always built in the hive locations, and it makes the games all the same to me, there's no variety.
Second would have to be how the game ends as soon as the comm chair or hive dies.
All these changes make it so games are over very quickly, which I think sucks. there's also the mentality of players where as soon as things don't go their way they all give up and recycle the base or go to the ready room.
It's like they think winning games gives you points that you can spend on prizes, and time spent playing in a "losing" match is time you could otherwise spent earning these magical points, WHICH DON'T EXIST!
What happened to playing for fun? Could it be that the developers have made the decision to try and make NS2 appeal to the "e-sports" crowd and all these changes are geared in that direction? Makes me sad.
Sorry for the rant but i've been waiting years for NS2 and I feel like it could be so much better than it is.
Darkness gives a clear advantage to the alien team. Show me one player who thinks otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would a dev say this? It's clearly an alien advantage and one of the few reasons to actually kill a power node in current game state.
But only if they made cysts invulnerable and the only way to push back infestation is with a flame thrower.
That, and make ARCs unable to transverse on infestation. Wheels get stuck in infestation gunk.
Get rid of power requirement all together for marines..
Let aliens RT spread infestation and not require infestation to place..
Bam game is 10x more fun...
But only if they made cysts invulnerable and the only way to push back infestation is with a flame thrower.
That, and make ARCs unable to transverse on infestation. Wheels get stuck in infestation gunk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the flamethrower idea, but making cysts invulnerable would be too much I think? I like the ARC idea! But what's to stop the alien commander just spamming the entire area with 10+ cysts? they already do it now when they have excess resources because there's nothing else to spend it on
I think infestation plays a bigger role than power in this. I played game the other day where the alien comm was a bit lazy with the cysts and we managed to get a lot of sneaky phase gates all over the place. The game was much more dynamic as a result, rushing left and right, trying to take down a hive, etc.
I think you can already make maps without power, you just need to put a single power node under marine start (out of the map so it can't be destroyed) and it will power the whole map.
Trust me when i say these decisions are not to appease the E-Sports crowd. First mod that would come out for E-Sports would be to beef up the CC and make it like the old days of kill all the team for a win. It shouldnt take a hard change to the game to fix the drawn out end of rounds. Just have the slow death tick as before. Disable structures and their abilities without the one hive to support them and BAM! You still have that end of game chance to pull it around but no more vent camping to grief other players.
I really like the RT idea. Also the RT SHOULD spread DI, but we will see what the devs do with this. It is a very big change and if there are two things the devs are ridiculously stubborn on is Power Nodes and Alien Khamm lol.
It's like they think winning games gives you points that you can spend on prizes, and time spent playing in a "losing" match is time you could otherwise spent earning these magical points, WHICH DON'T EXIST!
What happened to playing for fun?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have a wrong perspective here. You are right, that there are no magical points. But players don't go to the rr or quit because of such. They do it, because they have no fun in the current game. They DO play for fun. But it is NOT FUN to get raped for 5 or more minutes in the marine base / last hive, without the other team ending the game. I have not much free time and if I play a game, I want to have fun. And in a state where the game is already lost, there is no fun in letting the other team kill me again and again until the round is finally over. Maybe this last battle is fun once or twice. But after that, I have much more fun in going to the ready room and smoke a cigarette afk, waiting for the next round to start, instead being raped over and over again.
People have to understand, that a quick game over is necessary to maintain the fun for the losing team. And as much pleasure it is, causing havoc with an onos on marines (who can do nothing about it, at this game state), its not fun at the receiving end.
So please stop crying over people who will not allow you to rape them for more than 5 minutes, because they prefer a new game where they actually have fun. You are not the only one playing this game and if you have fun on something doesn't mean the other players have to have this too.
---
On the topic of power nodes:
I see, that it's not much fun to chew on a building. And extending this mechanic with more things you have to chew on, isn't desirable.
But the power nodes add complexity and tactical possibilities, which is one main point why I like NS. Don't cut it out because it makes things easier. We got enough easy and casual games out there. NS should be different.
So instead suggesting to take this mechanic out completely, get more creative and constructive and find ways, how this mechanic can be more fun, less annoying and maybe even add more complexity without getting to unintuitive for new players.
The problem with "making the idea better" is it is flawed to begin with. You make a point in the entire room a weak point, but make it so it is reasonably difficult to take down but extremely easy to repair. So easy in fact that by the time you destroy the power node and walk to another target a marine can have it repaired. Useless imo. Now i would love to see 1 power node only located in the marine base that knocks out power for the entire map. Now THAT would be a cool Achilles heel.
Other than that i like the above idea more. Make the RT the power node. Make RTs more important and like the old days you will have structures built around the RT and see them more properly defended. (of course in NS1 it helped you could electrify them =) )
Random thoughts:
- You could make it so the Power Node has to be repaired by the comm. It would be a simple click repair but more micro to deal with. It would also remove the problem of, if the power node goes down in marine start and you dont have marines spawning, it isnt game over. Just a delay to get beacon up.
All in all annoying unneeded mechanic. Marines can build anywhere and it is the aliens job to spread DI and deny them that. That is the trade off. Aliens have awesome mobility but lack in the expansion, while marines are the polar opposite.
I think they should be attaching more bonuses to CC buildings so the marines expand more.
When a marine team expands the power node thing is less a controversy.
It goes down in of of the areas and people scramble to put it back up.
The true problem is that marines are NOT encouraged to expand....there is no payoff.
Thus the power node is a one button end game. Because you have one base.
The true problem is that marines are NOT encouraged to expand....there is no payoff.
Thus the power node is a one button end game. Because you have one base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If marines don't need to expand, then maintaining an economy is not important enough.
Which brings us back to RTs...
1) Need to kill a power node to bring down the lights.
This is a problem with the main hive.
2)POWER NODES DISTRACT NEWBIES.
Every single new player wants to chew on that node and bring down the power. Half the time they'll ignore an rt to attack it. It wouldn't be such a huge problem if the net effect of taking down that node was greater than one marine taking 2 seconds to repair it.
3)Keeping it at 1% is better than killing it. It takes much longer to repair. If they build something you can just cut the power instantly.
4)Red light<Darkness
Having a fresh cut power node is better than taking down the power willy nilly. It also gives aliens a huge combat advantage. In addition, flashlights are scary and awesome. I love the moments where you and your squad mates are about to enter a room, power goes down, flashlights go up. ###### is on.
6)Too easy to repair. I'll wait for an onos to spend 10 seconds hitting it, walk up to it, tie my shoes, and still beat his record.
I disagree with automation. I think they just need tweaking to get juuuuuusssst right. Cysts are currently way too cheap and easy to spam, power nodes are way too tough.
If charles decide to keep the power nodes for the 1.0 release, then I'm hoping for atmosphere diference between when a power mode is online and when you haven't installed the power node, in that specific area. Right now you can't see any difference. The only difference is when power node is online and when its destroyed, nothing inbetween in areas. :(
And also to highlight which power node is linked to which area. So commander know where he can drop stuffs without it being unpowered.