<!--quoteo(post=1913616:date=Mar 15 2012, 07:17 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 15 2012, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the kind of stuff that the playtesting group should find before it gets released to thousands of players who are expected to promote the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our PTs find this stuff all the time. However, we have a very aggressive patch schedule. Often a feature will go in a day before we ship the patch and there's no time to refine it.
We realize that's the case though, and we'd rather keep moving forward as fast as we can and get feedback from the wider community instead of slowing down and keeping things to ourselves.
Performance seems to be the biggest issue currently and I'm glad to hear they are addressing it. I'm sure a lot more people would be able to properly enjoy this patch when this gets addressed. (Hopefully we won't have to wait two weeks)
Aside from that, I really hope they reconsider the pistol nerf and buff lerk bilebomb damage. (It's pretty difficult to defend versus an ARC push currently) Aside from that, it's a pretty sweet patch. The skulk speed change is something I think people are getting used to, though it may need some finetuning.
Also small bug report: biting crags as skulk gives a metal clinging noise as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1914121:date=Mar 16 2012, 08:09 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 16 2012, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also small bug report: biting crags as skulk gives a metal clinging noise as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anything that skulk bites sounds like metal clinging. lol
<!--quoteo(post=1914063:date=Mar 16 2012, 05:53 PM:name=twostroker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twostroker @ Mar 16 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope in next update you guys can balance it more.
in 1on1 skulk vs marine. its allmost only aliens that get killed now.. and i feel that its harder to run away from a marine now.. even if your cloaked and chewing at a marine back he can kill you.
and in most of the games played the aliens loose now
this is just my opinion afther giving playing b200 some more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree; the games I've played had both sides winning. The deciding factor was whether a few of the same, skilled players join the same team. Team stacking may or may not be intentional, but it certainly plays a part in winning.
Skulk is not easymode anymore due to assault rifle hit reg being improved. Before b200, marines had to shoot 15 or more bullets when only 10 are actually needed to kill an upgraded skulk. Now hit reg is much more accurate, resulting in skulks dying quicker. This is just the way it should be if they face a good marine. In order to win, skulks need to either 1) hide and take a marine unawares, 2) learn how to wall-jump in order to engage asap, or 3) use teamwork.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1914087:date=Mar 16 2012, 03:40 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 16 2012, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't get a 2nd hive in 3 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes you do..? be back with <strike>a vid </strike>pics i guess
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1914095:date=Mar 16 2012, 11:59 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Mar 16 2012, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914095"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->btw marine run speed is 5 skulk speed is 7 (Good wall jump initial can take you to 13) marine sprint speed reaches 9 then trickles back down again to reach 9, you have to think like you are an onos and run straight/semi straight
lerks fly up to about 13<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine sprint speed goes up to 9 indeed, fernow a bit too fast ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1914119:date=Mar 16 2012, 05:05 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 16 2012, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914119"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We realize that's the case though, and we'd rather keep moving forward as fast as we can and get feedback from the wider community instead of slowing down and keeping things to ourselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those of us with an attention span long enough to appreciate this, but short enough to hate once-every-few months betas, thank you :)
199 was entertaining with several issues (and obviously feature incomplete). 200 has a couple more issues, but given that it included some serious game tweaks (Catalyze, different/ineffective bile bomb, change in alien research structures, soft Shadow-step cooldown, change in skulk maneuverability). Honestly, I think several of the current problems stem from only having 3 maps to play on, and those not being updated all that often.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1914147:date=Mar 17 2012, 01:49 AM:name=Wolpertinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolpertinger @ Mar 17 2012, 01:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914147"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Am I the only one who thinks that NS2 got really really bad with 199 and now especially with 200? - Seriously, what is happening...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Welcome to a real beta, I guess :P
You guys have been spoiled a lot with loads of polished versions, however every time the <u><b>public beta testers</b></u> get a somewhat less stable version the rage starts, instead of giving feedback and doing profile shots or submitting crashlogs... The current public beta version is still an extremely polished build compared to some of the internal versions.
The sound issues were known and the BIG stutter issues were fixed (2/3s freeze frames) for the Release Candidate. Now that the devs have traced it down to other sound issues you rest assured there will be a hotfix incoming soon, so simply deal with it for now. It's not the end of the world to have some small micro stutter issues and a bit lower performance...
I'm working in a minimal sound-pack (bites, bullets, hive-cc messages, no ambient, no taunts, bla bla bla), I see some improvements when remove the sounds files.
My game crashes seemingly at random within 5 min every game I play on this build. My character is brains. I submit crash report everytime. Should I put something in crash report so it's more easily seen?
Lol if a skulk takes 8 bites to kill a marine whilst nano'd, go eat something tastier! leave that marine to either: Fades, Lerks or time out and come back after eating the res node behind him!
I think it's funny to see all the rage after each patch. The game is obviously not in a state for playing it regularly. It makes more sense to take a step back and just check in on ns2 every now and then to see how it's coming along. I don't even understand how anyone can play with the 250ms delay on damage/kills.
I don't know, I've been managing to have fun with it pretty consistently for the last three months. You just have to dive in to amuse yourself and not take it too seriously.
<!--quoteo(post=1914126:date=Mar 16 2012, 09:13 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Mar 16 2012, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes you do..? be back with <strike>a vid </strike>pics i guess
Alright, well I consider "getting" as in when it is finished. Catalyze obviously screws up 2nd hive timings, but even 5m assumes the aliens got no other buildings.. and held FOUR RTs. That's quite the alien advantage in that case.
<!--quoteo(post=1914208:date=Mar 16 2012, 11:53 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 16 2012, 11:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914208"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and held FOUR RTs. That's quite the alien advantage in that case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Four RTs is "quite the alien advantage?" That's the two nearest your base, and either crossroads or whichever hive you plan to head to. This may be different in organized play, but in pub play being unable to hold 4 res nodes for 4-5 minutes means your team was going to lose regardless of which build you're playing.
<!--quoteo(post=1914230:date=Mar 17 2012, 05:13 AM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Mar 17 2012, 05:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914230"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Four RTs is "quite the alien advantage?" That's the two nearest your base, and either crossroads or whichever hive you plan to head to. This may be different in organized play, but in pub play being unable to hold 4 res nodes for 4-5 minutes means your team was going to lose regardless of which build you're playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In 3 minutes? Yeah, that's pretty crazy. It basically means that the marines are losing on every side of the battle.
<!--quoteo(post=1914244:date=Mar 17 2012, 02:04 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 17 2012, 02:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In 3 minutes? Yeah, that's pretty crazy. It basically means that the marines are losing on every side of the battle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> o_O You start with one resource tower and your hive spawns three drifters a moment after you hop into it. A string of cyst chains to the two nearest res nodes takes maybe 30 seconds to place, and if you started those drifters towards those nodes immediately and use catalyze, you're sitting on three res nodes damn quick. Pick a direction (preferably not the one easily accessed by the marines from whatever marine spawn one of your skulks has to have drifted into at this point) and you've got that third drifter/4th res node placed within a minute of game start.
I mostly play pubs. Life may be different in the clan world, but that's a pretty typical alien start. A couple of cysts out in front of my most remote res towers lets me start yelling into the mic and get some reinforcements towards anywhere I see a serious marine push, and I never bother with upgrades until that second hive is already dropped and being catalysted into operation somewhere around the 5 minute mark.
Seriously, I'm starting to feel like I got shipped a different build than everyone else is playing.
EDIT: Just tried to see how fast a second hive can be raised on Mineshaft on a listen server. 3:52 is when the hive came online, meaning catalysted fades just after the 4 minute mark. That's too damn early.
korvoJoin Date: 2009-11-19Member: 69427Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Moved bile bomb from Gorge to Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yay! I was looking for some kind of Lerk-Bite for destroying struktures, this was really too slow. Bile bomb is even better, with this the former weak Lerk can now attack marine base for the first time. This will have the huge balance effect what I was missing since so many builds! I can't imagine how the thin lerk barfs out big bile-bombs - in my opinion this is a bit ugly in sense of style but very important for the balance.
--- Unfortunately not everything is right with the new build: AUTHENTICATION FAILS EVERY TIME (ends with a authentication timeout) Even on my own local server! Checking game files for errors doesn't help this time! - Update: Just waited, I saw absolute nothing that changed, but now it works. Why there have to be new troubles on startup with every single build? Maybe it's Steam, but in this case you really have to get rid of it.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1914244:date=Mar 17 2012, 02:04 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 17 2012, 02:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1914244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In 3 minutes? Yeah, that's pretty crazy. It basically means that the marines are losing on every side of the battle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> for the record to you and shrike, those pics i gave were only using the TWO res next to the base. more than easy to maintain on any game for 3 minutes.
I agree. Tram might be a bit of a different story, but if the aliens can't hold 2-3 res nodes outside their base for any length of time, that game is basically already decided by the skill differential on the two teams.
I find that you generally don't need more than 2 Res nodes outside your base, at 3 you have more than enough to get a third hive up quickly. Extending to 4 - 5 RTs at the start of a game usually (in maps that are balanced, i.e not mineshaft) just puts you in a situation where you will quickly lose one or two again. (Due to aliens not having proper defenses, and players not being able to defend multiple RTs at the same time)
Changes are always difficult to become accustom too, however playing for the last couple of days I've seen Alien wins, Marine wins, combacks, suprise endings etc, some big changes last patch but somehow it still balances out to some decent NS carnage.
Okay so Marines are still fighting uphill a bit and Lerks flying backwards is just goofy, but its hardly 'game over man, game over' like some people seem to be crying!
Strangly, Alien Comm is still somehow much more relaxing than Marine Comm, maybe even more apparent with the much more accessable cyst placing - I feel it may be something to do with structure/tech pricing, aliens with 3 res (thats including base) nodes seem to have many more options than marines with 3....? Or is it just me?
I do notice in the 'Progress' tab there are alot of balance tweaks planned for 201, maybe that will make marine comm less of an 'oh god, everyone ran out of spawn, guess I have to jump in' experience!
Comments
Our PTs find this stuff all the time. However, we have a very aggressive patch schedule. Often a feature will go in a day before we ship the patch and there's no time to refine it.
We realize that's the case though, and we'd rather keep moving forward as fast as we can and get feedback from the wider community instead of slowing down and keeping things to ourselves.
Aside from that, I really hope they reconsider the pistol nerf and buff lerk bilebomb damage. (It's pretty difficult to defend versus an ARC push currently) Aside from that, it's a pretty sweet patch. The skulk speed change is something I think people are getting used to, though it may need some finetuning.
Also small bug report: biting crags as skulk gives a metal clinging noise as well.
Anything that skulk bites sounds like metal clinging. lol
in 1on1 skulk vs marine. its allmost only aliens that get killed now.. and i feel that its harder to run away from a marine now..
even if your cloaked and chewing at a marine back he can kill you.
and in most of the games played the aliens loose now
this is just my opinion afther giving playing b200 some more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree; the games I've played had both sides winning. The deciding factor was whether a few of the same, skilled players join the same team. Team stacking may or may not be intentional, but it certainly plays a part in winning.
Skulk is not easymode anymore due to assault rifle hit reg being improved. Before b200, marines had to shoot 15 or more bullets when only 10 are actually needed to kill an upgraded skulk. Now hit reg is much more accurate, resulting in skulks dying quicker. This is just the way it should be if they face a good marine. In order to win, skulks need to either 1) hide and take a marine unawares, 2) learn how to wall-jump in order to engage asap, or 3) use teamwork.
yes you do..?
be back with <strike>a vid </strike>pics i guess
hive dropped in 3:10
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/PaXE1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
using catalyze hive is operational at 5:10
FADE ON
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/mq2Pi.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
skulk speed is 7 (Good wall jump initial can take you to 13)
marine sprint speed reaches 9 then trickles back down again
to reach 9, you have to think like you are an onos and run straight/semi straight
lerks fly up to about 13<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine sprint speed goes up to 9 indeed, fernow a bit too fast ;)
Those of us with an attention span long enough to appreciate this, but short enough to hate once-every-few months betas, thank you :)
Welcome to a real beta, I guess :P
You guys have been spoiled a lot with loads of polished versions, however every time the <u><b>public beta testers</b></u> get a somewhat less stable version the rage starts, instead of giving feedback and doing profile shots or submitting crashlogs... The current public beta version is still an extremely polished build compared to some of the internal versions.
The sound issues were known and the BIG stutter issues were fixed (2/3s freeze frames) for the Release Candidate. Now that the devs have traced it down to other sound issues you rest assured there will be a hotfix incoming soon, so simply deal with it for now. It's not the end of the world to have some small micro stutter issues and a bit lower performance...
I also did not think you would do bad design again like taser, but with lerk bile, you have.
By the way:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117103" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=117103</a>
be back with <strike>a vid </strike>pics i guess
hive dropped in 3:10
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/PaXE1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
using catalyze hive is operational at 5:10
FADE ON
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/mq2Pi.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, well I consider "getting" as in when it is finished. Catalyze obviously screws up 2nd hive timings, but even 5m assumes the aliens got no other buildings.. and held FOUR RTs. That's quite the alien advantage in that case.
Four RTs is "quite the alien advantage?" That's the two nearest your base, and either crossroads or whichever hive you plan to head to. This may be different in organized play, but in pub play being unable to hold 4 res nodes for 4-5 minutes means your team was going to lose regardless of which build you're playing.
In 3 minutes? Yeah, that's pretty crazy. It basically means that the marines are losing on every side of the battle.
o_O You start with one resource tower and your hive spawns three drifters a moment after you hop into it. A string of cyst chains to the two nearest res nodes takes maybe 30 seconds to place, and if you started those drifters towards those nodes immediately and use catalyze, you're sitting on three res nodes damn quick. Pick a direction (preferably not the one easily accessed by the marines from whatever marine spawn one of your skulks has to have drifted into at this point) and you've got that third drifter/4th res node placed within a minute of game start.
I mostly play pubs. Life may be different in the clan world, but that's a pretty typical alien start. A couple of cysts out in front of my most remote res towers lets me start yelling into the mic and get some reinforcements towards anywhere I see a serious marine push, and I never bother with upgrades until that second hive is already dropped and being catalysted into operation somewhere around the 5 minute mark.
Seriously, I'm starting to feel like I got shipped a different build than everyone else is playing.
EDIT: Just tried to see how fast a second hive can be raised on Mineshaft on a listen server. 3:52 is when the hive came online, meaning catalysted fades just after the 4 minute mark. That's too damn early.
Yay! I was looking for some kind of Lerk-Bite for destroying struktures, this was really too slow. Bile bomb is even better, with this the former weak Lerk can now attack marine base for the first time. This will have the huge balance effect what I was missing since so many builds! I can't imagine how the thin lerk barfs out big bile-bombs - in my opinion this is a bit ugly in sense of style but very important for the balance.
---
Unfortunately not everything is right with the new build:
AUTHENTICATION FAILS EVERY TIME (ends with a authentication timeout)
Even on my own local server!
Checking game files for errors doesn't help this time!
-
Update: Just waited, I saw absolute nothing that changed, but now it works. Why there have to be new troubles on startup with every single build? Maybe it's Steam, but in this case you really have to get rid of it.
for the record to you and shrike, those pics i gave were only using the TWO res next to the base. more than easy to maintain on any game for 3 minutes.
Okay so Marines are still fighting uphill a bit and Lerks flying backwards is just goofy, but its hardly 'game over man, game over' like some people seem to be crying!
Strangly, Alien Comm is still somehow much more relaxing than Marine Comm, maybe even more apparent with the much more accessable cyst placing - I feel it may be something to do with structure/tech pricing, aliens with 3 res (thats including base) nodes seem to have many more options than marines with 3....? Or is it just me?
I do notice in the 'Progress' tab there are alot of balance tweaks planned for 201, maybe that will make marine comm less of an 'oh god, everyone ran out of spawn, guess I have to jump in' experience!