<!--quoteo(post=1901872:date=Feb 10 2012, 06:22 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 10 2012, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Giving this a little bit more time, say 2-3 months before the end of summer 2012 (supposed release), after that I don't think a (significant) change in mechanics is going to occur, and starting up a mod will be the right course of action.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im with you there. Wish i knew how to code. I will give wall jumping its fair shot. I just cant see it working just by the word "wall".
I am one player who hates bhopping and the Marine jump spam and feel the devs are on the right path with the system now. It needs tweaking/improving yes, but to me is vastly better than old school bhopping. The system as is, is designed to get Skulks off the floor and onto the walls and ceiling which is great.
I also downloaded NS1 on the week of release and enjoyed it a lot until people learnt to bhop etc and I stopped as I just couldnt get a game against the players who lived on the game as I suspect did a lot of others. Competitive play is mentioned a lot but don't forget the vast majority of people who buy the game will not be planning on joining a clan and taking part in matches. Keeping those players active in the community is way more important than pleasing those who just want to compete in clan games and get an edge in matches. I'm sure the devs have a lot of ideas to keep things interesting and improve on what we have without resorting to bhopping.
It an emotive issue sure but lets face it there are more important things going on in the world and I for one trust UW to deliver what is shaping up to be the best MP game ever.
<!--quoteo(post=1901513:date=Feb 9 2012, 09:09 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 9 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just want to point out that we NEVER EVER said there was going to be bunnyhopping in NS2, so that should not have factored into your pre ordering decision.
Yes, we agree that for a variety of reasons wall jumping is not working perfectly yet. It had a very initial implementation, that Matso helped us out with, and has not been touched since, due to an overwhelming amount of other game tasks that we are trying to address. It still remains very much on our radar, and hopefully we can get back to it again soon. There is potential there, and it certainly needs refinement.
The walls aren't the only factor in the wall jumping. Crates and railings and other miscellaneous props can be used as well, in places where the walls are further apart. NS2 tends to have a lot more of these kinds of props, and less large empty areas of floor space in big rooms then in NS1, so you should be able to do a lot even without using walls.
Those are well thought out points, and something we were thinking about in regards to wall hopping. Particularly being able to get from point A to point B by using it that you wouldn't be able to get from normal movement. That was one of the aspects I liked best about the original BH mechanic, as shown is some videos of players making crazy jumps across caverns that they couldn't otherwise make. That is something that I believe should be an aspect of wall jumping, though whether it is working that way yet, I'm not quite sure.
Sure, we'd love help. But what we don't need is a constant argument to just make things like NS1. We've presented an alternative to BH, put out a first pass, and you know the direction we want to go in. So instead of focusing on us adding in the exact bugs that led to the BH mechanic, put in some playing time messing around with the current system and suggest ways of improving it. Better yet, whoever is able to, make a mod with improvements. We've been able improve Lerk flight with help from community members, Matso and Schimmel implemented the first pass at the skulk wall hopping that we'd talked about, and we've been considering possibly including Yuuki's fade blink momentum changes.
We are certainly not against skill based movement, and have said that time and time again. In fact, Charlie is always pointing out crazy movement mechanics that he really enjoys in TF2, and other games. We want the added depth it can provide, but we are working with our own engine, which means that all of those quirky movement mechanics that come for free with Source we now have to spend time coding in specifically. We've talked about wanting to add more air control, we've talked about other alien movement abilities that we'd like to improve on, and we know that movement is an area of the game that we want to give more love to, but there are only so many hours in the day, and everything on our giant task list is pretty much a high priority at this point.
So, that's just some thoughts for now.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, you did say you guys would implement bhopping in one of your audio / video interviews back before preorders. I wasn't going to buy the game until I heard you guys mention it.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1902046:date=Feb 11 2012, 07:35 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Feb 11 2012, 07:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902046"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have anyone tried the first pass on celerity? ;) cheats 1, dev 1 in console. Note: It is not implemented into the game yet, but you can still try celerity. If you play skulk, it's a good idea to enable the speedmeter(with jump timing meter as well). Open in steamapps/common/natural selection 2/ns2/lua/skulk_client.lua It's in the first few lines, speedmeter = false - change it to true The model of the Spun(ns1 movement chamber equalent) is not implemented yet. Hypermutation is not implemented yet. Hypermutation will allow you to change lifeforms at a cheaper cost. So if you're a gorge and want to go fade, it costs you 40 res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Easteregg in 195.
I'm not sure UWE understands how important the issue of skill-based movement is and what a HUGE role it played in getting NS1 such popularity. Not just popularity but thousands of die-hard fans willing to DONATE their money to you. And BUY a game that was just a whisper when offered. The RTS/FPS hybrid with a Marine/Alien backdrop got people interested but the game's fascinating mechanics kept them interested.
There was a freedom and economy of movement in NS1 that just isn't present in NS2. Movement like that of NS1 is what defined the experience of playing an Alien. I mean that's all an Alien is, really, its movement. Once you're in close the skill-based aiming threshold is just not that high - you're pretty much going to hit the Marine. What made the game exciting was HOW we got to that Marine. And that aspect had a high skill-threshold. As a Marine in NS1 you had more speed, making the up-close-and-personal battles more complex. But the Aliens got to you faster in NS1 too, so there was just more action in all.
That's what I miss - the speed of the game. That's what defined NS1 for me and it's what NS2 lacks. Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to play the hell out of this game, but not as much as I did NS1. I also don't regret pre-ordering at all, just out of NS1 loyalty and the amount of play I got out of it (check forum join date haha).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I like to think that the biggest factor in creating the really strong ns1-community was that it was a truely unique game at the time. When i first played it I was blown away by the huge strategic options it offered compared to games like CS. Furthermore, the community was really focussing on teamplay even on public servers! I have NEVER played, say a CS-game, were more or less EVERY player on the public server was dedicated to say **** the kill death ratio as long as we win the game or where every player actually obeyed commands from a single guy leading the game (marine gameplay) or where the whole team laid out a rough strategy before the round started (aliens).
While I do agree that jumping around as a skulk or as a marine was MUCH more fun than in ns2, I have the feeling that most of the discussion drifts off in some kind of nostalgia that You can hear from Your gradnma telling You how everything was better when she was young... ;)
Second of all I am having trouble to build a really strong opinion about the way movement in ns2 works, because my game is lagging so bad that I can't say, if my incredible jumng skill just killed the marine or mere luck... :(
I can teach someone to bunnyhop in about 5 minutes. It will take them tons of practice to do it well but that is beside the point isn't it? The problem with it in NS1 was that you had to use either a special script, +jump spam macro, bind +jump to mwheel and spam it hardcore, or just have excellent timing. If the devs had simply made holding +jump spam the command it would have been a million times easier for people to pick it up.
NS1 was kind of balanced around bunnyhopping and I personally found it plenty of fun to play, so removing it in NS2 and rebalancing the game seems kind of silly. By increasing speed and ease of movement of the aliens you need to balance it by eitther giving the marines better movement so they can juke, making the aliens weaker so they die faster/do less damage, or making the marines stronger so that they can live longer/kill faster.
This was really where the large gap between competitive players and normal players in NS1 existed. The people that put in the time to get really good at movement control through bunnyhopping and such were equal to other people that also did this in competitive play. The other people that didn't take the time to learn and perfect it played on equal footing with other people that also didn't put in the time. When you took a competitive player and put them on a normal server, or inversely a normal player on the Vet server, it was immediately apparent that there was a large gap in playstyles.
This combined with the fact that most competitive players were kind of tools who felt that the extra time they put into getting better at the game made them more important than everyone else didn't do much to foster closeness in the community, as evidenced by most competitive players being banned from almost all public servers.
Anyway that was another huge rambling post from me that kind of went off on a crazy tangent, but my core point is still that I would like to know how the devs plan on balancing this game going forward towards launch. At they planning on sticking with and tweaking the current model or will there be larger changes to balance the game? Hope that all of the kinks get worked out though.
So i gave 195 a good fresh shot. I was skulking around and on an off note my laptop plays the game SO damn well now that i think i had an unfair advantage lol, but i was giving the wall jump an honest go.
Things i liked:
Playing mineshaft in the tight corridors made speed easy to come by and forced my play style to climbing walls to attack. It got me a 5:1 k/d ratio and 100 pres in no time. It was easy to understand jumping off the wall gave me a good boost and as long as i ran in the open i maintained speed. I started to look for objects to increase my speed or look at potential speed boosting areas. It made me feel more alien like (see Aliens the movie).
What i didnt like:
It required nothing on my part to maintain speed other than not hitting anything, in wide open areas with no props i was screwed, and lastly there was no depth to it.
When you jump off the wall you dont have enough range to feel like you can make the next wall in one hop or you just jump on the same wall and look quite silly. As a short range combat method it is a good tool and i like it. I do not like it as a skill base movement to traverse the map. It feels much like in NS1 on marines when you would wall strafe to gain speed. Simple and easy to do but very situational and NOT used all the time or at great length.
I will have to try Yuki's mod for the fade because i still hate the fade movement. It is better but traversing the map isnt very fun. Dont get me wrong, it gets the job done and i think that is what you are all shooting for, but not a perm solution. I wish there are a alt fire blink that was like the old NS1 version. Take away the ethereal jump and invul and make it cost less adren and i would be happy. A good trade off i would think.
Over all the game is fun but i fear the day i meet someone with just as good of a comp as i have as a marine. I think i will hate that day =) Or when they learn to aim.
<!--quoteo(post=1902181:date=Feb 11 2012, 11:55 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Feb 11 2012, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So i gave 195 a good fresh shot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I appreciate that in depth evaluation. Definitely some good thoughts in your post, and a lot to consider.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1901513:date=Feb 10 2012, 02:09 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 10 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and we've been considering possibly including Yuuki's fade blink momentum changes.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Best line of that post. Would help massively with fade balance(invulnerability time), and fade combat effectiveness against jetpackers. And last but not least, make the fade fun to play.
I played alot around with the skulk walljumping lately, with the speedmeter/timingmeter turned on. It's much easier to learn then bunnyjumping, but far too easy to maintain your topspeed. Especially with celerity :P Maybe the punishment of badly timed jumps is not enough, it's hard to tell. Also the walljumping isn't jumping towards your view angle, but 90 degress off the wall, with the addition of movement keys. That needs a change as well. All in all, I like the direction this is going in. Keep rocking!
<!--quoteo(post=1902181:date=Feb 12 2012, 09:55 AM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Feb 12 2012, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Take away the ethereal jump and invul<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thematically speaking, I think it would be a terrible shame if they did that.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1902275:date=Feb 12 2012, 08:42 AM:name=Rokiyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Feb 12 2012, 08:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thematically speaking, I think it would be a terrible shame if they did that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed, I believe the fade momentum mod is the right solution.
With the fade, lerk, onos, and skulk kinda hashed out what should be done about the gorge? They cant wall jump, they cant blink, fly, or gain momentum. What should their mechanic be?
Spider Gorge? Webbing through the halls?
Mario Kart Gorge? Power Sliding around turns?
or should they be able to inflate that fat little belly and bounce places lol. Maybe a charge mechanic like i said with the skulk. The gorge inflates its stomach, crunches down, and releases for a burst of speed. Timing jumps allows you to maintain speed pogoing around?
<!--quoteo(post=1902388:date=Feb 12 2012, 06:30 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Feb 12 2012, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mario Kart Gorge? Power Sliding around turns?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is what I would like to see. I think there's a lot left that can be done to make his belly sliding more useful and skill based, and drifting, as silly as it sounds, is something that I really think could make it better. I'd like bellysliding to be able to be used on stairs and ramps, even without infestation, but that's a different design decision. Especially on a map like Mineshaft, making more use of the slopes and stairs to build up speed, and keep enough momentum to get across a flat surface to reach another slope/set of stairs could be good.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1902414:date=Feb 12 2012, 09:16 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 12 2012, 09:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is what I would like to see. I think there's a lot left that can be done to make his belly sliding more useful and skill based, and drifting, as silly as it sounds, is something that I really think could make it better. I'd like bellysliding to be able to be used on stairs and ramps, even without infestation, but that's a different design decision. Especially on a map like Mineshaft, making more use of the slopes and stairs to build up speed, and keep enough momentum to get across a flat surface to reach another slope/set of stairs could be good.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've removed the need for infestation to belly slide in my mod, and I REALLY lament the fact I can't powerslide around corners. I am trying to introduce more skill based movement in my mod, and I felt, as it's a team deathmatch mod, that gorge should be able to slide anywhere. It is an amazing mechanic, but I'll leave to the words of Jeremy Clarkson to describe what it needs:
<!--quoteo(post=1902414:date=Feb 12 2012, 07:16 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 12 2012, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is what I would like to see. I think there's a lot left that can be done to make his belly sliding more useful and skill based, and drifting, as silly as it sounds, is something that I really think could make it better. I'd like bellysliding to be able to be used on stairs and ramps, even without infestation, but that's a different design decision. Especially on a map like Mineshaft, making more use of the slopes and stairs to build up speed, and keep enough momentum to get across a flat surface to reach another slope/set of stairs could be good.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another idea is the gorge could spread infestation while belly sliding ahead of him that lasts for a short time for effect. Also on the power slide idea Mario Kart had different color smoke up to x3 for the speed boost. Maybe the gorge's belly could glow different shades to denote how big the boost will be. Not going to lie, it may sound silly, but i love the belly slide idea. Loved it in Mario Kart so not only will the mods be fun but so will my gorge <3
and honestly Cory thank you for the responses. I know you are all really bust and i didnt even expect 1 let alone 3.
Regarding Belly Slide and Infestation, I'd like to see the Gorge swerve up infested walls slightly when he attempts to turn a sharp corner, and gain momentum if executed correctly :P
Could maybe add Skulk's view tilt for a sliding Gorge if that happens~
Oh god, mario kart gorge. Now I picture an NS2 mod with a bunch of gorge players powersliding around maps getting powerups and shooting bile bombs at each other making them spinout into a wall.
Comments
Im with you there. Wish i knew how to code. I will give wall jumping its fair shot. I just cant see it working just by the word "wall".
I also downloaded NS1 on the week of release and enjoyed it a lot until people learnt to bhop etc and I stopped as I just couldnt get a game against the players who lived on the game as I suspect did a lot of others. Competitive play is mentioned a lot but don't forget the vast majority of people who buy the game will not be planning on joining a clan and taking part in matches. Keeping those players active in the community is way more important than pleasing those who just want to compete in clan games and get an edge in matches. I'm sure the devs have a lot of ideas to keep things interesting and improve on what we have without resorting to bhopping.
It an emotive issue sure but lets face it there are more important things going on in the world and I for one trust UW to deliver what is shaping up to be the best MP game ever.
Ta
Sal
Yes, we agree that for a variety of reasons wall jumping is not working perfectly yet. It had a very initial implementation, that Matso helped us out with, and has not been touched since, due to an overwhelming amount of other game tasks that we are trying to address. It still remains very much on our radar, and hopefully we can get back to it again soon. There is potential there, and it certainly needs refinement.
The walls aren't the only factor in the wall jumping. Crates and railings and other miscellaneous props can be used as well, in places where the walls are further apart. NS2 tends to have a lot more of these kinds of props, and less large empty areas of floor space in big rooms then in NS1, so you should be able to do a lot even without using walls.
Those are well thought out points, and something we were thinking about in regards to wall hopping. Particularly being able to get from point A to point B by using it that you wouldn't be able to get from normal movement. That was one of the aspects I liked best about the original BH mechanic, as shown is some videos of players making crazy jumps across caverns that they couldn't otherwise make. That is something that I believe should be an aspect of wall jumping, though whether it is working that way yet, I'm not quite sure.
Sure, we'd love help. But what we don't need is a constant argument to just make things like NS1. We've presented an alternative to BH, put out a first pass, and you know the direction we want to go in. So instead of focusing on us adding in the exact bugs that led to the BH mechanic, put in some playing time messing around with the current system and suggest ways of improving it. Better yet, whoever is able to, make a mod with improvements. We've been able improve Lerk flight with help from community members, Matso and Schimmel implemented the first pass at the skulk wall hopping that we'd talked about, and we've been considering possibly including Yuuki's fade blink momentum changes.
We are certainly not against skill based movement, and have said that time and time again. In fact, Charlie is always pointing out crazy movement mechanics that he really enjoys in TF2, and other games. We want the added depth it can provide, but we are working with our own engine, which means that all of those quirky movement mechanics that come for free with Source we now have to spend time coding in specifically. We've talked about wanting to add more air control, we've talked about other alien movement abilities that we'd like to improve on, and we know that movement is an area of the game that we want to give more love to, but there are only so many hours in the day, and everything on our giant task list is pretty much a high priority at this point.
So, that's just some thoughts for now.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, you did say you guys would implement bhopping in one of your audio / video interviews back before preorders. I wasn't going to buy the game until I heard you guys mention it.
Note: It is not implemented into the game yet, but you can still try celerity.
If you play skulk, it's a good idea to enable the speedmeter(with jump timing meter as well).
Open in steamapps/common/natural selection 2/ns2/lua/skulk_client.lua
It's in the first few lines, speedmeter = false - change it to true
The model of the Spun(ns1 movement chamber equalent) is not implemented yet.
Hypermutation is not implemented yet. Hypermutation will allow you to change lifeforms at a cheaper cost.
So if you're a gorge and want to go fade, it costs you 40 res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easteregg in 195.
I'm not sure UWE understands how important the issue of skill-based movement is and what a HUGE role it played in getting NS1 such popularity. Not just popularity but thousands of die-hard fans willing to DONATE their money to you. And BUY a game that was just a whisper when offered. The RTS/FPS hybrid with a Marine/Alien backdrop got people interested but the game's fascinating mechanics kept them interested.
There was a freedom and economy of movement in NS1 that just isn't present in NS2. Movement like that of NS1 is what defined the experience of playing an Alien. I mean that's all an Alien is, really, its movement. Once you're in close the skill-based aiming threshold is just not that high - you're pretty much going to hit the Marine. What made the game exciting was HOW we got to that Marine. And that aspect had a high skill-threshold. As a Marine in NS1 you had more speed, making the up-close-and-personal battles more complex. But the Aliens got to you faster in NS1 too, so there was just more action in all.
That's what I miss - the speed of the game. That's what defined NS1 for me and it's what NS2 lacks. Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to play the hell out of this game, but not as much as I did NS1. I also don't regret pre-ordering at all, just out of NS1 loyalty and the amount of play I got out of it (check forum join date haha).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I like to think that the biggest factor in creating the really strong ns1-community was that it was a truely unique game at the time. When i first played it I was blown away by the huge strategic options it offered compared to games like CS.
Furthermore, the community was really focussing on teamplay even on public servers! I have NEVER played, say a CS-game, were more or less EVERY player on the public server was dedicated to say **** the kill death ratio as long as we win the game or where every player actually obeyed commands from a single guy leading the game (marine gameplay) or where the whole team laid out a rough strategy before the round started (aliens).
While I do agree that jumping around as a skulk or as a marine was MUCH more fun than in ns2, I have the feeling that most of the discussion drifts off in some kind of nostalgia that You can hear from Your gradnma telling You how everything was better when she was young... ;)
Second of all I am having trouble to build a really strong opinion about the way movement in ns2 works, because my game is lagging so bad that I can't say, if my incredible jumng skill just killed the marine or mere luck... :(
NS1 was kind of balanced around bunnyhopping and I personally found it plenty of fun to play, so removing it in NS2 and rebalancing the game seems kind of silly. By increasing speed and ease of movement of the aliens you need to balance it by eitther giving the marines better movement so they can juke, making the aliens weaker so they die faster/do less damage, or making the marines stronger so that they can live longer/kill faster.
This was really where the large gap between competitive players and normal players in NS1 existed. The people that put in the time to get really good at movement control through bunnyhopping and such were equal to other people that also did this in competitive play. The other people that didn't take the time to learn and perfect it played on equal footing with other people that also didn't put in the time. When you took a competitive player and put them on a normal server, or inversely a normal player on the Vet server, it was immediately apparent that there was a large gap in playstyles.
This combined with the fact that most competitive players were kind of tools who felt that the extra time they put into getting better at the game made them more important than everyone else didn't do much to foster closeness in the community, as evidenced by most competitive players being banned from almost all public servers.
Anyway that was another huge rambling post from me that kind of went off on a crazy tangent, but my core point is still that I would like to know how the devs plan on balancing this game going forward towards launch. At they planning on sticking with and tweaking the current model or will there be larger changes to balance the game? Hope that all of the kinks get worked out though.
Things i liked:
Playing mineshaft in the tight corridors made speed easy to come by and forced my play style to climbing walls to attack. It got me a 5:1 k/d ratio and 100 pres in no time. It was easy to understand jumping off the wall gave me a good boost and as long as i ran in the open i maintained speed. I started to look for objects to increase my speed or look at potential speed boosting areas. It made me feel more alien like (see Aliens the movie).
What i didnt like:
It required nothing on my part to maintain speed other than not hitting anything, in wide open areas with no props i was screwed, and lastly there was no depth to it.
When you jump off the wall you dont have enough range to feel like you can make the next wall in one hop or you just jump on the same wall and look quite silly. As a short range combat method it is a good tool and i like it. I do not like it as a skill base movement to traverse the map. It feels much like in NS1 on marines when you would wall strafe to gain speed. Simple and easy to do but very situational and NOT used all the time or at great length.
I will have to try Yuki's mod for the fade because i still hate the fade movement. It is better but traversing the map isnt very fun. Dont get me wrong, it gets the job done and i think that is what you are all shooting for, but not a perm solution. I wish there are a alt fire blink that was like the old NS1 version. Take away the ethereal jump and invul and make it cost less adren and i would be happy. A good trade off i would think.
Over all the game is fun but i fear the day i meet someone with just as good of a comp as i have as a marine. I think i will hate that day =) Or when they learn to aim.
I appreciate that in depth evaluation. Definitely some good thoughts in your post, and a lot to consider.
--Cory
I always though you only had the speed boost off the wall jump but it sounds like you can maintaince the speed somehow by not jumping again?
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Best line of that post.
Would help massively with fade balance(invulnerability time), and fade combat effectiveness against jetpackers.
And last but not least, make the fade fun to play.
I played alot around with the skulk walljumping lately, with the speedmeter/timingmeter turned on.
It's much easier to learn then bunnyjumping, but far too easy to maintain your topspeed. Especially with celerity :P
Maybe the punishment of badly timed jumps is not enough, it's hard to tell.
Also the walljumping isn't jumping towards your view angle, but 90 degress off the wall, with the addition of movement keys.
That needs a change as well.
All in all, I like the direction this is going in. Keep rocking!
Agreed, I believe the fade momentum mod is the right solution.
Spider Gorge? Webbing through the halls?
Mario Kart Gorge? Power Sliding around turns?
or should they be able to inflate that fat little belly and bounce places lol. Maybe a charge mechanic like i said with the skulk. The gorge inflates its stomach, crunches down, and releases for a burst of speed. Timing jumps allows you to maintain speed pogoing around?
Whatcha all think?
*Gorge is my Fav class after all =)
That is what I would like to see. I think there's a lot left that can be done to make his belly sliding more useful and skill based, and drifting, as silly as it sounds, is something that I really think could make it better. I'd like bellysliding to be able to be used on stairs and ramps, even without infestation, but that's a different design decision. Especially on a map like Mineshaft, making more use of the slopes and stairs to build up speed, and keep enough momentum to get across a flat surface to reach another slope/set of stairs could be good.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've removed the need for infestation to belly slide in my mod, and I REALLY lament the fact I can't powerslide around corners. I am trying to introduce more skill based movement in my mod, and I felt, as it's a team deathmatch mod, that gorge should be able to slide anywhere. It is an amazing mechanic, but I'll leave to the words of Jeremy Clarkson to describe what it needs:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9u0LxIWJk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9u0LxIWJk</a>
[2:02 for Jeremy's comments on what the gorge needs]
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another idea is the gorge could spread infestation while belly sliding ahead of him that lasts for a short time for effect. Also on the power slide idea Mario Kart had different color smoke up to x3 for the speed boost. Maybe the gorge's belly could glow different shades to denote how big the boost will be. Not going to lie, it may sound silly, but i love the belly slide idea. Loved it in Mario Kart so not only will the mods be fun but so will my gorge <3
and honestly Cory thank you for the responses. I know you are all really bust and i didnt even expect 1 let alone 3.
Regarding Belly Slide and Infestation, I'd like to see the Gorge swerve up infested walls slightly when he attempts to turn a sharp corner, and gain momentum if executed correctly :P
Could maybe add Skulk's view tilt for a sliding Gorge if that happens~