Ridiculously low fps with good hardware

ReoxyReoxy Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143975Members
Fraps tells me I get like 20-30 frames per second. Its unplayable. Anyone got a solution for this? Loved the first ns and just bought this and to be honest, just a <b>little</b> bit annoyed. Is this game the new crysis or wtf?

Thx.

i5-750
gtx 570
4gb ram
w7 32-bit
«1

Comments

  • DescentDescent Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73103Members
    edited February 2012
    There is no fix. I went into a giant rant on here a few months back. The engine has been like this for almost two years now.

    The entire engine runs on a single core. If you have anything less than an 4.5GHz Sandy Bridge you ain't getting 60fps.

    I have a 3.4GHz quad core Phenom II 965 and a 2GB Radeon 6970. It's pretty much unplayable due to the constant frame rate drops in combat.

    If you're used to gaming on crappy hardware this isn't really an issue, but most people aren't like that.

    I had a change of heart and I waited for the next major release because in a video interview they claimed they had a new engine programmer.

    I'm just gonna email them and ask for a refund now.
  • OmegaliskOmegalisk Join Date: 2012-01-06 Member: 139750Members
    I have a Core 2 Duo (3.2 GHz, dual core) and a 9800GT and the game is playable for me. Sure, I usually don't get above 35 FPS, but its playable certainly.
  • exoityexoity Join Date: 2003-03-17 Member: 14620Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1900384:date=Feb 6 2012, 06:52 PM:name=Reoxy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reoxy @ Feb 6 2012, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fraps tells me I get like 20-30 frames per second. Its unplayable. Anyone got a solution for this? Loved the first ns and just bought this and to be honest, just a <b>little</b> bit annoyed. Is this game the new crysis or wtf?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sometimes fraps does not give the most accurate fps reading, have you tried using the console command to show stats? (I believe it is r_stats).
  • DescentDescent Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73103Members
    edited February 2012
    He's complaining about it being unplayable. Why would he use a different metric to confirm what he's already seeing?
  • rebirthrebirth Join Date: 2007-09-23 Member: 62416Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Many of the FPS issues seem to be connected to client-server performance and not the engine working badly on the client.
    Using an i7-2600k here at 4 ghz and 2 x HD 5870 in CF i usually get good FPS until a round lasts for some time and server performance get's crappy, then even my rig lowers FPS and overall gameplay feels choppy.

    So my guess the problem is on the engine side and on the dedicated server side, but the game is far from beeing in a state where performance optimization should matter. Right now the game needs to be feature complete first before UWE can spent some serious time on optimizing how it runs.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I have an i3 530 and GTS250 and I have no real problems running the game at 1920x1080. I don't get above 45fps, but then my system is a stop-gap I bought as I'd been 2 years without a PC. There are lots of stuttering issues caused by server performance, check if you are suffering from your PC or if the server is sufferring by typing net_stats in console to get the server tickrate.

    There are lots of different reasons, but this is a beta, a real beta not a Demo disguised as a beta that is normally released these days by the big companies, they use the beta tag to make people feel special, here it's a genuine beta.
  • ReoxyReoxy Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143975Members
    edited February 2012
    Yeah its pretty much the same with that command. I just dont get it. How is it even possible to screw it this bad? This game need some serious optimizing. I'll give them till the launch and if it still is this bad, im gonna ask refunds.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    edited February 2012
    Optimization remains one of our main focuses, and we are making strides forward in that area with pretty much every patch. Just in the past few months alone, with the last 3 or 4 patches the game has taken a huge jump in performance, and we still have a good amount of time to go before release.

    We know what level we want the game to be performing at, we know what the main performance issues are, and we know what needs to be done to address them. It will just require some additional time to do, since we have a very small team, so don't expect the problems to be sorted out overnight.

    We appreciate your patience to hang on, follow the progress, and wait to see how the game is running for you when we release it. Thanks.

    --Cory
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
    To test if it is your FPS performance, try the following commands

    r_fog 0
    r_atmospherics 0
    r_bloom 0

    Also in this thread:

    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116227" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=116227</a>

    Just a bit lower in the thread, someone deleted and re-installed NS and got rid of their rubberband stuttering issues. You can also try this.

    This is a beta, there are an insane number of issues. The reason beta's are normally closed is because the people involved need to do a lot of trouble shooting themselves to clear issues, and share detailed information on it.

    There are a huge number of things that can be tried, but from your posts, you don't seem to have tried anything except net_stats, then you advised that didn't do anything for you.

    It won't, it is so you can see the tickrate of the server, so you can find out if your issues are because of a low server tickrate, or they are because of your FPS. Currently, I am almost certain it is server related, but you can try these things as listed here, and do a search of the forums for the 100 almost identical posts to this, then come back with a list of the things you have tried and their results. Or you can just whinge and moan and hope it miraculously solves itself, which it won't. :)

    You need to understand the concept of beta testing, and the work required from a beta tester before you take the plunge and start complaining when it doesn't work. Beta testing is about ironing out the problems, so you need to get involved with solving them, looking into your own issues, it might after all be something simple on your system that is causing the issue, like a corrupted NS2 install, graphics drivers or anything else.

    You haven't listed any steps you've taken to remedy this issue, given no indication of specifics of the problem, then expect the devs to solve it.

    How about some useful feedback on specifics of your issues that may make a difference to the devs being able to fix the problem, not just for you but everyone who is using the game and having similar issues, that is after all the role of a beta tester.
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    edited February 2012
    it was mistake saying game might come out this summer as was stated in the email I got when gorilla patch was released. This game, rather the engine needs maybe another year of work since the size of the team heavily depended on this. I just don't know how you guys plan to release 1.0 with the engine at its current state, yes their been improvements but its far from close.

    Just from my own experience, I spike 25-30 and during combat it drops way down. I remember I use to have 11 fps, so jumping to where I'm now is an improvement but its far from close. I just don't know how much the game can change within few months.

    edit

    people always saying what everyone should type in console.
    We really need proper settings so we can edit the graphics/performance based on our systems without relying on the default settings.
  • DescentDescent Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73103Members
    edited February 2012
    Yeah if this comes out in the summer without massive improvements no one is going to buy it because they can't run it.

    I think they're going to miss yet another milestone and push the date back again.

    I have a question for the developers. Is this engine ever going to take advantage of multiple cores?
  • DescentDescent Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73103Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1900406:date=Feb 6 2012, 07:36 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 6 2012, 07:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To test if it is your FPS performance, try the following commands

    r_fog 0
    r_atmospherics 0
    r_bloom 0

    Also in this thread:

    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116227" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=116227</a>

    Just a bit lower in the thread, someone deleted and re-installed NS and got rid of their rubberband stuttering issues. You can also try this.

    This is a beta, there are an insane number of issues. The reason beta's are normally closed is because the people involved need to do a lot of trouble shooting themselves to clear issues, and share detailed information on it.

    There are a huge number of things that can be tried, but from your posts, you don't seem to have tried anything except net_stats, then you advised that didn't do anything for you.

    It won't, it is so you can see the tickrate of the server, so you can find out if your issues are because of a low server tickrate, or they are because of your FPS. Currently, I am almost certain it is server related, but you can try these things as listed here, and do a search of the forums for the 100 almost identical posts to this, then come back with a list of the things you have tried and their results. Or you can just whinge and moan and hope it miraculously solves itself, which it won't. :)

    You need to understand the concept of beta testing, and the work required from a beta tester before you take the plunge and start complaining when it doesn't work. Beta testing is about ironing out the problems, so you need to get involved with solving them, looking into your own issues, it might after all be something simple on your system that is causing the issue, like a corrupted NS2 install, graphics drivers or anything else.

    You haven't listed any steps you've taken to remedy this issue, given no indication of specifics of the problem, then expect the devs to solve it.

    How about some useful feedback on specifics of your issues that may make a difference to the devs being able to fix the problem, not just for you but everyone who is using the game and having similar issues, that is after all the role of a beta tester.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Can't you guys just admit your code is jacked and give the community an ETA on fixing it? There's always someone getting defensive about it. It's the year 2012, "playable" for most people means 40+ fps, and everyone I know shoots for 50-60.

    We don't need incremental improvements, we need an engine that takes advantage of more than one core. It's been two years and no one has given us anything even resembling optimization. We understand what a beta is, but we can also see when minimal progress is being made.

    I feel like I'm watching NS die in slow motion. People are getting refunds after a year and a half of waiting. This isn't going to sell if the requirements are that steep. Rewriting the guts of the engine should be priority number one.
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1900434:date=Feb 7 2012, 02:18 AM:name=Descent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Descent @ Feb 7 2012, 02:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah if this comes out in the summer without massive improvements no one is going to buy it because they can't run it.

    I think they're going to miss yet another milestone and push the date back again.

    I have a question for the developers. Is this engine ever going to take advantage of multiple cores?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Take a look on this video:

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8_lShjatg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8_lShjatg</a>

    And if you don't like MT, write r_mt false it stops multithreading in NS2.
  • DescentDescent Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73103Members
    edited February 2012
    I just tried it. Both on and off.

    This is unbelievable. There is no way this is shipping in six months.

    With over 700,000 dollars, they could have licensed UE3 and hired a few more guys. They could have easily ported it to 360/PS3 and it would have been playable with lowly integrated graphics.

    There is zero ROI using Spark.
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900384:date=Feb 6 2012, 04:52 PM:name=Reoxy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reoxy @ Feb 6 2012, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fraps tells me I get like 20-30 frames per second. Its unplayable. Anyone got a solution for this? Loved the first ns and just bought this and to be honest, just a <b>little</b> bit annoyed. Is this game the new crysis or wtf?

    Thx.

    i5-750
    gtx 570
    4gb ram
    w7 32-bit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It def appears that NS2 is CPU dependant.
    I just ran Fraps for a full game (22 mins) and I got an average of 40.814 FPS. Min FPS was 18 and Max was 73.
    IMO, definately playable.

    I5-2500K (stock speed)
    ATI 4850 (stock speed)
    8GB RAM
    W7 64Bit
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    OC that 2500k to at least 4Ghz and have fun with a way more stable FPS, it's not like it is even an issue of being hard to do :)
  • DescentDescent Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73103Members
    edited February 2012
    Damnit, I thought Squeal Like a Pig was gonna give us some more information but I guess he was just reading this thread and logged out. He was active for a while.

    Oh yeah, I forgot. The netcode still sucks. C'mon, seriously?
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900458:date=Feb 6 2012, 08:24 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Feb 6 2012, 08:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OC that 2500k to at least 4Ghz and have fun with a way more stable FPS, it's not like it is even an issue of being hard to do :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    All in good time. :)
  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    They got 6months to optimize and the game is nearly feature complete..

    Over the next couple of months the game will come leaps and bounds..

    Btw UE3 is abit of a dog building spark was the right idea perhaps being so heavily reliant on lua wasn't ...
  • basti1337basti1337 Join Date: 2011-05-13 Member: 98538Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1900384:date=Feb 6 2012, 11:52 PM:name=Reoxy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reoxy @ Feb 6 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...] Is this game the new crysis or wtf? [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I really don't know what these "OMG LOW FPS" guys are thinking when they buy this game which is developed by an INDIE game studio to get EARLY access to the BETA. If you are frustrated then come back when the game finished or get a refund. Its always the same...
  • ZerZexZerZex Join Date: 2011-12-05 Member: 136715Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900466:date=Feb 7 2012, 03:41 PM:name=Descent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Descent @ Feb 7 2012, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900466"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Damnit, I thought Squeal Like a Pig was gonna give us some more information but I guess he was just reading this thread and logged out. He was active for a while.

    Oh yeah, I forgot. The netcode still sucks. C'mon, seriously?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Just shutup already, its a beta game and your demanding a completed game, if your not going to bring positive feedback to the table get your refund and piss off. Them taking time to read your stupid comments is helping slow down there work on the game.
  • KamikazeHunterKamikazeHunter Join Date: 2005-06-07 Member: 53360Members
  • AixAix Join Date: 2010-12-02 Member: 75409Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900453:date=Feb 6 2012, 09:14 PM:name=Descent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Descent @ Feb 6 2012, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just tried it. Both on and off.

    This is unbelievable. There is no way this is shipping in six months.

    With over 700,000 dollars, they could have licensed UE3 and hired a few more guys. They could have easily ported it to 360/PS3 and it would have been playable with lowly integrated graphics.

    There is zero ROI using Spark.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What about UWE suggests to you that they <i>want</i> to be another studio producing games on the UE3 engine? UE3 has become the mark of cheaply-made, under-supported rush jobs and it's the first thing I look for whenever a new game is announced - so I can avoid it at all costs. It also doesn't look particularly good.

    Also, you know nothing of what the team is capable of. Also <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113993" target="_blank">this</a>.
  • BurgmanBurgman Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 144020Members
    how do you get a refund? i bought it with the promises of improved performance but the constant sub 30 dips at 1680x1050 on an i5 2500k and 6970 make it way too frustrating to play. i'd like to enjoy it but I just can't when I can't play or aim for ######.
  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
    You have bought a BETA product knowingly so you have nothing to complain about...
  • SparkTRSparkTR Join Date: 2007-02-09 Member: 59913Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    I'm siding with the people that say wait until release to judge stuff like this. Right now you're participating in a closed beta for an indie game, what did you guys expect?
  • PlasmaPlasma Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1900502:date=Feb 7 2012, 02:45 PM:name=SparkTR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SparkTR @ Feb 7 2012, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900502"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm siding with the people that say wait until release to judge stuff like this. Right now you're participating in a closed beta for an indie game, what did you guys expect?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think its a very valid complaint.

    The only bad taste I ever really read about this game on other sites (besides this one) is wondering if the lag is gone, and whether it is playable yet.

    That's a really bad impression to leave for everyone else to read. It's the reason I don't recommend someone grab the game right now, and also why I wouldn't play it often, because the drops here and there while playing are a huge turn off.

    It would be foolish to not make optimising the game earlier a priority.

    If I was working at UWE I would be really hesitant to launch without solid performance, so as long as its ready before then that's all that really matters - but the ongoing concern is very valid - people worry it won't really be fixed at all.
  • DescentDescent Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73103Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1900483:date=Feb 6 2012, 11:07 PM:name=basti1337)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basti1337 @ Feb 6 2012, 11:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't know what these "OMG LOW FPS" guys are thinking when they buy this game which is developed by an INDIE game studio to get EARLY access to the BETA. If you are frustrated then come back when the game finished or get a refund. Its always the same...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Dude, I bought this nearly two years ago and it's still non functional for the most part.

    <!--quoteo(post=1900490:date=Feb 6 2012, 11:42 PM:name=ZerZex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZerZex @ Feb 6 2012, 11:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900490"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just shutup already, its a beta game and your demanding a completed game, if your not going to bring positive feedback to the table get your refund and piss off. Them taking time to read your stupid comments is helping slow down there work on the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Such a great outlook.

    "Did you log hundreds of hours on NS1? Are you frustrated that NS2 has been delayed multiple times, is almost at release and still not working properly? Are you worried about the direction the franchise is taking? Piss off."

    <!--quoteo(post=1900492:date=Feb 6 2012, 11:46 PM:name=KamikazeHunter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KamikazeHunter @ Feb 6 2012, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^ this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    See above.

    <!--quoteo(post=1900494:date=Feb 7 2012, 12:07 AM:name=Aix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aix @ Feb 7 2012, 12:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about UWE suggests to you that they <i>want</i> to be another studio producing games on the UE3 engine? UE3 has become the mark of cheaply-made, under-supported rush jobs and it's the first thing I look for whenever a new game is announced - so I can avoid it at all costs. It also doesn't look particularly good.

    Also, you know nothing of what the team is capable of. Also <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113993" target="_blank">this</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, because the first thing I care about is what engine it runs off of, not the merits of the game itself.

    <!--quoteo(post=1900497:date=Feb 7 2012, 12:33 AM:name=Burgman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burgman @ Feb 7 2012, 12:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900497"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how do you get a refund? i bought it with the promises of improved performance but the constant sub 30 dips at 1680x1050 on an i5 2500k and 6970 make it way too frustrating to play. i'd like to enjoy it but I just can't when I can't play or aim for ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Welcome to my world, and the world of many other people, for the past two years.

    <!--quoteo(post=1900501:date=Feb 7 2012, 12:44 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Feb 7 2012, 12:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have bought a BETA product knowingly so you have nothing to complain about...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    When a franchise I love is this far behind schedule with this much broken code I'm totally justified, sorry.

    <!--quoteo(post=1900502:date=Feb 7 2012, 12:45 AM:name=SparkTR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SparkTR @ Feb 7 2012, 12:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900502"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm siding with the people that say wait until release to judge stuff like this. Right now you're participating in a closed beta for an indie game, what did you guys expect?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Everyone I personally know who bought it was disappointed. The majority of posts I've seen on other forums are hopeful but people are dismayed at how rough the game runs.

    There's no point in using beta access as a PR move when the beta still isn't playable two years down the line.
  • BurgmanBurgman Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 144020Members
    edited February 2012
    oh, well people kept saying get "your refund and leave" it sounded like people were actually getting refunds... I guess no one is? I'd love for this game to work but I just don't see it happening. The game runs like crap on high end machines only 6 months away from an official release? a beta is no excuse for that, this game should still be considered an alpha build and considering I paid 35 dollars for it, I feel really burned.


    I would have gladly paid 35 or more for a fully functional ns2. I want this game to be successful. but buying a product that barely works on the promise of devs that my or may not deliver feels like a big ripoff.
  • ZerZexZerZex Join Date: 2011-12-05 Member: 136715Members
    Firstly Decent, yes i put 100's of hours into ns1 and no im not concerned about this game cause I am enjoying it and its a beta so it will only get better. and who are you to preach about caring for the franchise when you posted "i'm just gonna email them and ask for a refund now. "

    Honestly, wait till it is released and out of beta till you start feeling ripped off, the last 5 patch's have shown great improvements and performance increases, It is getting better and better all the time, hold in there and watch UWE blow you away with the finished product.

    And lastly UWE looked at all the engines and the features they wanted werent there so they went and wrote a brand new engine so they were handing us a half arsed game and desent they have been advertising jobs alot.
This discussion has been closed.