Non-forced ironsights that improve stability and accuracy when used

Nex Carnifex

I think it would make being a marine feel a lot cooler and more realistic if when holding the right mouse button iron sights came out of the top of the assault rifle and you looked down them for precision aiming and extra damage, though they wouldn't be necessary only a useful option for certain situations. It would feel so real to look down a hallway and spot an alien, quickly switching to futuristic ironsights and shooting. It would break up the dated feel of the current play style but wouldn't negate it like Cod or something, it would just be a special mode for certain situations. I feel it would not only make the game have a higher appeal but it would make the gameplay feel more diverse for the marines. Again they would be different than what you see in something like call of duty. They would also take a second to deploy, so you couldn't use them in close combat twitch situations.

Raneman

No.

/thread

Nex Carnifex

Why though, I know its cool to be old school and ###### but sometimes it feels limiting to hold the gun at your hip all the time, it would make the combat feel more real and allow the game to live in the imagination as well as adding to the combat depth. This would probably be my favorite game if something like this was implemented for the marines. Crosshairs get boring sometimes.

Raneman

<!--quoteo(post=1808114:date=Nov 21 2010, 10:28 AM:name=N_3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (N_3 @ Nov 21 2010, 10:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Iron sights are for slow paced realism games. NS is not this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1807645:date=Nov 20 2010, 02:24 PM:name=deathshroud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deathshroud @ Nov 20 2010, 02:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i can think of many games with fast paced fps combat that use iron sights so that above is just silly marine combat is already slow, it would not change the speed of the aliens what so ever so how on earth would it slow combat down between a slow vs fast gameplay thats already implemented. Theres nothing stopping playyers from not using the ironsights<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1789172:date=Jul 29 2010, 08:41 PM:name=msleeper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (msleeper @ Jul 29 2010, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1789172"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, iron sights suck. Most people don't like them or want them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--quoteo(post=1752353:date=Feb 10 2010, 05:44 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 10 2010, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752353"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you tried to go Iron Sights against a Skulk you would die horribly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--quoteo(post=1749836:date=Jan 30 2010, 01:01 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hybridclaw @ Jan 30 2010, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749836"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with everyone who said that maps would not be large enough for scopes/iron sights to be very useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--quoteo(post=1749704:date=Jan 29 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Private)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Private @ Jan 29 2010, 12:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In short, I see no place in the Natural Selection universe for iron sights, scopes or zoomed guns. Attempting to carve out a niche for them might irreversibly wreck the fast paced combat we know and love.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--quoteo(post=1747272:date=Jan 14 2010, 05:49 AM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Jan 14 2010, 05:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume you mean "iron sights," and I think it was mostly rejected, this is not call of duty and we don't want it to become call of duty etc etc. Also as far as "immersion" is concerned, the marines have sighting/targeting technology in those fancy helmets of theirs, so bam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--quoteo(post=1747283:date=Jan 14 2010, 07:04 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jan 14 2010, 07:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, iron sights shift focus to aiming and slow down gameplay, considering what you're aiming at is not going to be for the most part stationary, it will have a severe impact on gameplay and just generally does not fit within NS gameplay. If it's a matter of immersion-breaking, I'd say ironsights break immersion more than repair it for the reasons mentioned in the above post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--quoteo(post=1748611:date=Jan 22 2010, 01:05 PM:name=Glasses)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Glasses @ Jan 22 2010, 01:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh god! No more Iron-sights, please!
I hate pressing Mouse2 and shoot, and what's the point using Iron-sights in close quarter? I would understand if NS2 is set on large scale environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--quoteo(post=1712240:date=Jun 13 2009, 10:19 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 13 2009, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No sights either. NS is close quarters combat, small arms and such (relatively speaking). Firing from the hip, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting" target="_blank">Point Shooting</a>. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_quarters_combat" target="_blank">Close Quarters Battle</a>. That sort of thing.
Again, sights would simply be impractical for attacking fast-free-moving aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nex Carnifex

1. They wouldn't be necessary only for use in certain situations (not close combat) and to give you more control when shooting down lerks and lighting up hallways from a distance.
2. They would be nothing like COD, they would be limited use not essential and would not aim as fast thus making it impossible to abuse.
3. Having the ability to look down the gun would add realism that will help NS2 appeal to a wider audience and increase the sense of immersion.
4. Imagine looking down a hallway and there are aliens on the other end, would you not feel stupid firing from the hip at them? In my opinion being able to actually aim and accurately fire would be much more satisfying. It would make the combat feel a bit more varied as well, as in such situations you'd need to use a different method of firing then spinning in circles firing at little aliens.

Raneman

<!--quoteo(post=1896977:date=Jan 23 2012, 07:01 PM:name=Nex Carnifex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nex Carnifex @ Jan 23 2012, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. They wouldn't be necessary
2. They would be limited use<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Congratulations on making my argument for me!

Let's add a keybind to tap-dance!

It has no real purpose, it's just that I like tap-dancing, so why not put it in the game?

elodea

kool to be old school? Iron sights have always been a lame excuse/mechanic for improving accuracy and reducing recoil for casual gamers under the guise of 'realism'. Absolutely unnecessary and even more so in the ns universe where there is no recoil and accuracy spread is already very small.

But then you propose to make them limited use? This has got to be troll..

Dghelneshi

<!--quoteo(post=1896977:date=Jan 24 2012, 02:01 AM:name=Nex Carnifex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nex Carnifex @ Jan 24 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. They wouldn't be necessary only for use in certain situations (not close combat) and to give you more control when shooting down lerks and lighting up hallways from a distance.
2. They would be nothing like COD, they would be limited use not essential and would not aim as fast thus making it impossible to abuse.
3. Having the ability to look down the gun would add realism that will help NS2 appeal to a wider audience and increase the sense of immersion.
4. Imagine looking down a hallway and there are aliens on the other end, would you not feel stupid firing from the hip at them? In my opinion being able to actually aim and accurately fire would be much more satisfying. It would make the combat feel a bit more varied as well, as in such situations you'd need to use a different method of firing then spinning in circles firing at little aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

1. It would add more things for the developers <b>and</b> the mappers to balance around. Aliens already have a hard time getting close to the marines, why put even more power into the marine's strength?
2. Things that increase damage <b>are</b> essential by definition. You'd always try to do it, no matter what the situation, and get frustrated by things like lower sensitivity, DoF effects, the weapon obstructing too much of the view, etc. If these things wouldn't be in the game, then iron sights would just be an unnecessary button to press before firing, so it won't serve any purpose at all. If you slow the switching to iron sights down a lot, the skulk will already be in melee range while you could have been shooting him down in the hallway the whole time, so again a useless feature.
3. Realism is never an argument to change gameplay. Not everything realistic is bad for gameplay, but in itself it is not an argument at all, so stop using it. This is a competitive multiplayer shooter, so gameplay >>> immersion. If the game itself is not fun, immersion won't help one bit. Also, how would it be realistic to have iron sights increase damage?
4. If you want more accuracy, use your pistol. Also, see #1. There won't be many long hallways anyway since that would utterly destroy gameplay for aliens.

Techercizer

Ironsights work great on consoles because auto-aim takes any difficulty out of tracking your target. NS2 is not an auto-aim based game, and filling up the entire center of your screen to track a fast-moving target is a backwards idea with no grounding in what's really responsive or enjoyable to gamers.

On the other hand, if you just want to try brute-forcing a dated, inappropriate, gameplay mechanic into a game that isn't designed for it, don't let those arguments stop you.

Harimau

<!--quoteo(post=1896973:date=Jan 24 2012, 08:34 AM:name=Nex Carnifex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nex Carnifex @ Jan 24 2012, 08:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->realistic<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting</a>

Chris0132

The rifle is already incredibly accurate, and I don't think you should be able to make bullets magically do more damage. I don't even like that the pistol has a magic 'do more damage' firemode.

I just don't think there are many guns in NS that would actually benefit from ironsights, if any.

About the only one I can think of is maybe once the minigun is released, you would be able to aim it and fire it at a slower ROF but greater accuracy.

Frozty

Ironsight is a bad idea people.

Kouji_San

TSA marines are like the A-Team, they shoot in the general direction of the enemy and magical things happen!

eisiger

While it'd make more sense for the marine to do this rather than firing from the hip, I would like to keep the single alternate function for each weapon. If we were to get iron sights for an already amazingly accurate and moderately damaging gun, that would probably mean we could no longer bat away skulks without adding another alt or, god forbid, melee key.

Nex Carnifex

I feel the mechanic has its place in NS2, it wouldn't be something you always did but it would be something that still worked and had a use. Maybe it would increase damage (by tightening the spray of fire) at the cost of aiming mobility and movement speed, so it couldn't be used against Skulks or in situations where you would need to turn around quickly and fire close up.

Nex Carnifex

I made a picture
<img src="http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww10/Oblivio/ironsights.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
lol

Harimau

<!--quoteo(post=1897111:date=Jan 25 2012, 02:06 AM:name=eisiger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eisiger @ Jan 25 2012, 02:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While it'd make more sense for the marine to do this rather than firing from the hip,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting</a> !

Forss

I imagine that the marine HUD is aware of where the weapon is pointing and displays it. It is possible even with todays technology so since the marines are already carrying a HUD there is no reason not to use it as a gun-sight.

azimaith

I could see iron sights being used in a game with a longer engagement range or lower levels of technology, but NS2 has neither. If you want to increase "immersion" you can change the crosshairs to look more "projected" onto your visor and throw a targeting thingy on the weapons that would be "feeding back" information. With those changes you've increased "realism" so to speak, but is the cost of the time and effort required to do that really important enough to add? Not so certain they are even though I do love high immersion games (like Dead Space.)

Heroman117

It's the future where we've got badass auto targeting systems integrated into the HUD that instantly allow-you to shoot with sight-accuracy from the hip; and you still wan't to aim down your sights?

Bah, all joking aside, the current marine weapons could hardly benefit from iron-sight implementation, the marine rifle being the most plausible, but being as accurate as it already is, there would be no reason to use your sights, and the pistol sort-of already has a "precision" mode per-se. Additionally, irons sights for the shotgun would be pretty futile since its... well a shotgun; which has a effective range of a few feet as is... no amount additional precision would really do you any good, and making it so aiming down the sights tightens the shotgun's spread really kills the feel of the shotgun for me. Flame thrower Iron sights? they don't even have those in real-life, or at least any flame throwers i've seen, causing bringing the sights of a weapon shooting scorching flames up to my face would probably be one of the last things i'd be inclined to do if i was being attacked by a bunch of rabid dogs with giant claws.

ScardyBob

Its pretty unnecessary in NS2 because marines already shoot like this: <a href="http://youtu.be/PGcGIj0ILyQ" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/PGcGIj0ILyQ</a>

azimaith

Real shotguns have sights on them, video game shotguns just have silly unrealistic spreads where they're effective at a handful of feet. The issue with realistic pellet spreads in shotguns (not even counting ones with chokes) is that pretty much every games engagement range is way below the point where it would spread sufficiently to be differentiated from rifles by it's namesake characteristic.

Nex Carnifex

<!--quoteo(post=1897245:date=Jan 25 2012, 09:58 AM:name=azimaith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (azimaith @ Jan 25 2012, 09:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could see iron sights being used in a game with a longer engagement range or lower levels of technology, but NS2 has neither. If you want to increase "immersion" you can change the crosshairs to look more "projected" onto your visor and throw a targeting thingy on the weapons that would be "feeding back" information. With those changes you've increased "realism" so to speak, but is the cost of the time and effort required to do that really important enough to add? Not so certain they are even though I do love high immersion games (like Dead Space.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing though is how do they know to keep it in the exact right position for the crosshair to always be centered?

Nex Carnifex

<!--quoteo(post=1897391:date=Jan 26 2012, 02:30 AM:name=azimaith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (azimaith @ Jan 26 2012, 02:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897391"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Real shotguns have sights on them, video game shotguns just have silly unrealistic spreads where they're effective at a handful of feet. The issue with realistic pellet spreads in shotguns (not even counting ones with chokes) is that pretty much every games engagement range is way below the point where it would spread sufficiently to be differentiated from rifles by it's namesake characteristic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about a sawed off shotgun

BearTaxi

<!--quoteo(post=1897673:date=Jan 28 2012, 12:39 AM:name=Nex Carnifex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nex Carnifex @ Jan 28 2012, 12:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about a sawed off shotgun<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Troll in the dungeon!

Agiel

<!--quoteo(post=1897672:date=Jan 27 2012, 06:20 PM:name=Nex Carnifex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nex Carnifex @ Jan 27 2012, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thing though is how do they know to keep it in the exact right position for the crosshair to always be centered?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116054" target="_blank">*cough*</a>

Nex Carnifex

<!--quoteo(post=1897686:date=Jan 27 2012, 06:41 PM:name=Agiel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Agiel @ Jan 27 2012, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116054" target="_blank">*cough*</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is so awesome, they should totally implement that if they could make it so it doesn't interrupt the flow of looking around.

ogz

i can think of a use for this

i always have trouble sniping xroads hive from the other side of the map (have that mouse tracking thing that others have) need the door.. now i can use this, plus i get added dmg +1!

Nex Carnifex

<!--quoteo(post=1898173:date=Jan 30 2012, 02:26 PM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Jan 30 2012, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898173"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i can think of a use for this

i always have trouble sniping xroads hive from the other side of the map (have that mouse tracking thing that others have) need the door.. now i can use this, plus i get added dmg +1!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, I think this totally has a place in NS2

Techercizer

You do realize that those things you're shooting across Crossroads are also players, right?

saltybp53

If this was a realistic game, and I'm not talking about cod or bf, then yeah it would have a place, but if you really need a "zoom-in" button, then draw a circle with a plus sign in the middle of a piece of paper cut out the middle, and tape your "scope" on your monitor. Placebo effect ftw.