What do you want to do as Alien Commander?
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">Pheromones</div>NS2 has an alien commander: this is one of those brand-new areas of the game that isn't covered by the ground layed by NS1.
The alien commander's role is that of "cosmic gardener", one where he is dreamily playing with the environment to do powerful, slimy things. I don't want him giving orders to other aliens - that would be too similar to the marine's "command and control" setup. Also, aliens move so fast and with so many different movement modes that clicking on aliens at all wouldn't work well. As "gardener", it would be cool if the alien commander was interacting directly with the environment. So I had an idea about him being able to create clouds of "pheromones":
Pheromone: <i>A chemical substance produced and released into the environment by an animal, esp. a mammal or an insect, affecting the behavior or physiology of others of its species.</i>
I have some ideas about what I wanted to do with these, but before I taint your imaginations, perhaps you had some ideas? How do you find yourself wanting to interact and communicate with your team, and environment?
The alien commander's role is that of "cosmic gardener", one where he is dreamily playing with the environment to do powerful, slimy things. I don't want him giving orders to other aliens - that would be too similar to the marine's "command and control" setup. Also, aliens move so fast and with so many different movement modes that clicking on aliens at all wouldn't work well. As "gardener", it would be cool if the alien commander was interacting directly with the environment. So I had an idea about him being able to create clouds of "pheromones":
Pheromone: <i>A chemical substance produced and released into the environment by an animal, esp. a mammal or an insect, affecting the behavior or physiology of others of its species.</i>
I have some ideas about what I wanted to do with these, but before I taint your imaginations, perhaps you had some ideas? How do you find yourself wanting to interact and communicate with your team, and environment?
Comments
Maybe you guys could implement some type of speed buff to act as celerity from NS1. The commander could create an aura around a select group of aliens to give them this speed buff. ( Similar to cat packs from NS1 )
Some other ideas..... Create other effects such as a strength buff that increases the health or damage of specific aliens for a short period of time, with an added visual effect. ( increased size of the alien for example )
The Alien Commander could use them like flares, with a single key and click it would fire one from a hive, and travel to the destination leaving a train of pheromones only the aliens can see.
The Alien Commander could also select different colors, so he could tell the Aliens to split into two groups one following the red, another the green.
Allowing for a combat direction without being directly ordered.
The extra creature could be inserted as random ambient critters too, having them spawn around infestation and fly around randomly.
These randomly spawned ones would not drop pheromones, and would probably be best created completely client side, to minimize network traffic.
Red (attack) - Increases attack power in some way (attack speed, adrenaline recharge, damage bonus, etc.)
Green (growth) - Decreases evolve and build times
Yellow (alert) - Increases movement speed
Blue (defend) - Increases defense in some way (regen, improves effectiveness of armor, etc.)
This also functions as a way to transfer map information and strategy decisions from the comm to the aliens in an organic way (not direct orders like marines). Aliens know where to attack, where its safe to evolve, where they need to defend, etc. and they get bonuses for following the comm's suggestions.
So say marines are pushing a hive, the alien comm can to the following:
Paint red on the marines to improve combat ability of aliens attacking the position
Paint yellow on the main corridors from nearby parts of the map to the marine's location to speed reinforcements to the area
Paint blue over the hive and its defensive structures to help slow the attack and give aliens an area to retreat to to heal up
Paint green in a safe location nearby (say the side of the hive opposite the marines) to allow newly spawned aliens to evolve and get back into combat quicker
The alien players now know where to attack, how best to get there, and what areas of the hive are safe vs not
So maybe you could use them to communicate intent. "this is where we'll be expanding next" "This is a feint"
Things like that. So you could have rough communication with your troops about where and how you will expand. That would be incredibly useful.
Red (attack) - Increases attack power in some way (attack speed, adrenaline recharge, damage bonus, etc.)
Green (growth) - Decreases evolve and build times
Yellow (alert) - Increases movement speed
Blue (defend) - Increases defense in some way (regen, improves effectiveness of armor, etc.)
This also functions as a way to transfer map information and strategy decisions from the comm to the aliens in an organic way (not direct orders like marines). Aliens know where to attack, where its safe to evolve, where they need to defend, etc. and they get bonuses for following the comm's suggestions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sounds cool.
This could be used only on the creep as a prereq forcing marines to destroy the creep as an extra task
I wanted to also add that this also would promote creep growth as an incentive for the aliens to build it all over the map. Works both ways
A building that grants vision
a building that makes armor more effective
a building that makes movement in the area faster etc.
with no drawbacks except the opportunity cost. When you get control over a room the commander has to figure out what is going to be happening in that room. It could be an easy choice like
"this room is near the hive and wont be facing danger often/soon, so ill make stuff move through it faster to get to more important areas quicker.
to more difficult choices like
"this room is near the marines spawn, They might attack through it commonly so i might want hivesight to see them, or armor to hold the room a bit easier, or maybe movement speed so we can close gaps quicker and try to pinch off a win using this room as a staging point.
If the commander needs more activity (or apm w/e) you can give the infested power nodes energy and the buff they give consumes it so they have additional management.
However in my opinion...
I would want the alien commander to control a NPC unit (capable of dealing damage) that is available the moment he starts commanding (a sort of "hero" unit you could say). Alien commanders are not really useful as it stands, and you're better off fighting on the ground than being up in the sky and I'm not entirely sure that the addition of pheromones are going to alleviate that.
Not feasible with development (make another rigged unit, heck no) but ultimately I'd think it would be unique enough to make the two commanders feel vastly different.
I like the whole 'clouds + buffs' idea - but make the commands 'chargeable' not based on energy or res. It is bad enough trying to manage energy creating cycts, and then realising you don't have enough for a drifter. Don't add a third option.
It persuades players to obey orders as they gain a buff. Visually you could do something interesting for the player to inspire confidence.
I like the idea of having these 4 (or so) as above, but when placed next to certain buildings/lifeforms they interact differently. So you have a simple number of commands, but they can be used in various ways.
For example, growth on a Cyst could make it grow quicker or denser. Where as growth on the hive would spawn eggs quicker.
For the alien, it could take a more 3rd-person approach possibly and actually DO the gardening. That is, carrying around buildings ("saplings"?) and plant em into the infestation. I think this sort of dynamic would work great since you didn't want the alien comm to do any real unit commanding to begin with. Plus, I found it kind of weird how the "commanding" unit chills outside the hive sac like a wannabe marine commander in a sweet bunk.
I kind of picture a Zerg queen with special abilities - spawn creep tumors, can attack, heal, etc., but also with the ability to "plant" living buildings. The commander evolves accordingly to the upgrade path chosen and # of hives.
Maybe. :P
(I'd love to elaborate, but before I bore the ears off of others and invest more time than will be read I'll wait for feedback.)
Red (attack) - Increases attack power in some way (attack speed, adrenaline recharge, damage bonus, etc.)
Green (growth) - Decreases evolve and build times
Yellow (alert) - Increases movement speed
Blue (defend) - Increases defense in some way (regen, improves effectiveness of armor, etc.)
This also functions as a way to transfer map information and strategy decisions from the comm to the aliens in an organic way (not direct orders like marines). Aliens know where to attack, where its safe to evolve, where they need to defend, etc. and they get bonuses for following the comm's suggestions.
So say marines are pushing a hive, the alien comm can to the following:
Paint red on the marines to improve combat ability of aliens attacking the position
Paint yellow on the main corridors from nearby parts of the map to the marine's location to speed reinforcements to the area
Paint blue over the hive and its defensive structures to help slow the attack and give aliens an area to retreat to to heal up
Paint green in a safe location nearby (say the side of the hive opposite the marines) to allow newly spawned aliens to evolve and get back into combat quicker
The alien players now know where to attack, how best to get there, and what areas of the hive are safe vs not<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can totally see myself saying "can we get some red up in here comm?" but I feel like its too much interaction between comm and player almost. It's too reliant for the more independent aliens.
Gas Cloud: A thick cloud of gas that can be used to block Marine LoS, covers a medium radius, lasts 20 seconds.
Pack Mentality: (as others have suggested) Units within the radius gain a buff to Movement and attack speed -So long- as they remain near each other, Lasts 1 minute
Outage: Temporarily powers down a room, and all structures within, lasts 10 seconds.
Alien commander uses Drifters to spread pheromones (increases commander RTS element). There are a few types:
<b>Aggression Scent:</b> - Commander spreads this scent around an area he wants to team to press ahead with. The scent increases alien vision contrast at the expense of distance.
<b>Mollify Murk:</b> - Defend an area by tagging with this. Changes infestation colour to a more brown/purple hugh. Increases structure armour by 1/3 for 30 seconds.
<b>Swarm Scent:</b> - Notifies aliens to gather at this location to prepare for assault. Visual aid only aliens can see (not through alien vision). Visual distortion of some kind.
I would also rename 'Swarm' ability currently in-game to something else like 'Horde'.
Aliens should embrace the trinity. 3 Scents to use as Comm. Simple.
My other idea to make commanding more than a gardener is:
Give the Alien Commander active abilties like spells in a RPG depending on the chosen tech build he has different abilties e.g he cast a ensnare on a marine on infestation or command the infestation to build a temporary wall to block a marine or give aliens some cover. or some active heal he can cast on one alien
Every ability has a cooldown and costs energy. The comander has to choose if he wants to spent energy on drifters and pustules or give temporary buffs to aliens or debuffs to marines.
I imagine that these things give the commander a more active role not only depending on stationary structures. (ideas are from playing lots of dota2)
Imagine the great combos possible:
Marines trying to enter hive room all getting really low and wanting to retreat but commander cast a wall at the exit and aliens kill every marine.
Hope you like the idea if not, at least i tried ;)
Couldn't we fold in Cysts into this as well? So, they could act as places where pheromones could be dispersed, etc. You could also have them automatically release "under attack" pheromones too. Hell, any structure could do this. It would be a better improvement that just hearing "structure under attack" messages, with no clear distinction as to where. Although things like Hydras may need to be excluded from something like that.
Whatever solution is tried out, I think the pheromones should show up on the mini-map somehow and not just in-game visual cues.
So maybe you could use them to communicate intent. "this is where we'll be expanding next" "This is a feint"
Things like that. So you could have rough communication with your troops about where and how you will expand. That would be incredibly useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this. Let the commander guide aliens without providing explicit instructions. If the commander can poof down a cloud of superchompygas, giving any aliens in the area a boost to speed, damage, and/or rate of fire, every alien on the map will be clambering to get to that location to take advantage of the buff. Plus it would be super atmospheric for the marines, knowing they're about to be swarmed by a hoarde of empowered aliens.
--Scythe--
Edit1:But at the same time I like the idea of the infestation being unpredictable, uncontrollable - that even the Aliens can not keep them in control. Almost like cancer.
Edit2:I think it should be possible to place a cyst everywhere. And that they are just some kind of decoy, that the infestation grows towards it. But without cysts, the infestation has some kind of cancer-like trait, even the Aliens themselves need to take care of. (Maybe it would overgrow structures and damage them after a while? Unable to enter/leave hive and eggs?)
Edit3: I don't like that the Marine weapons disappear just like that. I know, it also has something to do with performance. But I liked what you, Charlie, suggested earlier in a video. That corspes, Aliens and Marines, give the infestation a temporal boost. I would even go further and say that weapon will stay on the ground until Aliens destroy them or infestation grows over them. Maybe even Marine structures, as well.
U will find that there are a lot of people who enjoy commanding, especially for the aliens. The alien commander is easily one of my favorite additions to NS2. With so much freedom to build wherever one pleases, makes for an enjoyable experience as much for the comm as it does for the aliens and marines running around beautifully infested areas. Something like the A.I. director from Valve only much better since it's a human.
Pheromone clouds are a bit like "signposts". They aren't orders, but more about conveying information to the team, not telling anyone what to do.
- Creating any of these clouds is free, but if you create one too close to another, it will kill the first and override with the second
- They can be dismissed any any time (with a "dismiss" or "X" button, and possibly by "waving" your mouse through them)
- They can be seen on hive sight by everyone on your team
There are 6 pheromone cloud types. Some of them have automatic variants, depending how you create them:
<b>Scout </b>
- “Scout Crossroads†(disappears when alien can be seen from waypoint, within 10 meters)
<b>Attack </b>
- in world = “Attack Data Core!†(lasts 60 seconds)
- on a enemy live unit = “Kill <class name>!†(goes away after 60 seconds or when killed)
<b>Protect</b>
- “Protect <location or entity>†(disappears after 60 seconds)
<b>Needs healing</b>
- in world: = “Data Core needs healingâ€
- wounded friendly live unit = “<class name> needs healingâ€
<b>Threat detected</b> (disappears when no more enemy LiveMixins within 20 meters)
< 15 enemy point value visible = “Threat detected†(10 seconds)
>= 15 enemy point value visible “Large threat detected†(20 seconds)
<b>Expanding</b>
- “Expanding in Flight Control†(disappears 20 seconds after Hive/Harvester within 15 meters)
There are times where you do want to give a strong indication of what to do, but that's natural: if you want to do this and you don't have the ability, you're going to type it and/or be frustrated the game won't let you, so I think it's better to have some of these in the game.
Finally, although these would be manually triggered, I could see them being generated automatically in some cases too:
- Expanding (created when drifter given build-hive or build-harvester order)
-<classname> needs healing (Hive, Harvester, Shell, etc, when 60% or less health, but only the most wounded nearby structure
If these had gameplay effects though, I think having Drifters "cast" them, and/or having them only appear on infestation, makes a lot of sense. That way marines could prevent it.
The only thing i'm thinking about is: Do they have to be clouds? With so many gas/cloud/smoke (ie. Lerk gas, Healing, Umbra) animations going on after early game, wouldnt another type of "cloud" make the whole visual effect too tiring? Not to mention the (awesome of course) atmospheric lighting which also has this "dense-like 3d" feel to it.
The hivemind should be presented like another player on the field. The infestation is it's domain. Swapping the activation abilities of structures over to the hive support powers, allowing the hivemind to seep umbra and energize gasses through the pores of infestation anywhere in it's territory.
And primal scream being like this. :D <a href="http://youtu.be/UJLMYfuhLI4?t=4m44s" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/UJLMYfuhLI4?t=4m44s</a>
Would also be very cool if the alien commander gets a crazy voice-effect for his mic ;) Like the gravemind in Halo. (Just joking.)
I think we should be embracing this, and simply coming up with the ideal ways to help an alien comm give out orders - if not to individual players, to his team in general. Waypoints for example are just helper functionality for the marine commander, that are often ignored in favor of voice comm for skilled teams. The alien comm should have an equivalent, but selecting aliens obviously won't work, so he should just have untargeted waypoints instead that convey information to everyone, and aliens can act on it how they like.
In other words I pretty much agree with the suggestions you gave - I think whatever gameplay powers the alien comm has should be independent of these organizational aids.
Personally I think pheromone clouds should just be orders, you drop a pheromone cloud and all aliens see it on their hud. Rather than ordering specific aliens around, you simply create standing orders for all aliens to follow if they can.
Really speaking I think this would work better for marines as well, rather than their order system, but that's just me. It seems like a more logical way to handle human players than micromanaging, give them information, not instructions, they can figure out the correct instructions if they have the right information.
If that sounds a lot like a basic description of an RTS game, it's because (asymmetrical gameplay goals aside) both teams are led by a RTS-styled leader. Other things that leaders need to be able to do are give orders, and lead development in chosen directions (via research).
I think that UWE needs to pick between an RTS vs RTS model and an asymmetrical alien gardener vs technological commander model. Nothing concrete on that, just my two cents.
I'd love to see Kham with the ability to enter an avatar (physical or otherwise) to control exactly where it places structures that don't require a drifter to build, but at the same time, it seems like we're just finding new, RTS-ier ways to implement the old GorgeCom system. I'd also be okay with seeing the Kham become a infected counterpart to the Com; it wouldn't be as interesting or "new", but making the game fun is more important than making it edgy.
Otherwise they aren't really commanders, they are 'building construction organisers'.
Admittedly that is what they do best, but I think the idea is to at least have a semblance of commanding being in the game.