ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1888142:date=Dec 3 2011, 03:49 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888142"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is annoying. PLEASE limit number of ARCs which can exist at one time.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/HL7l9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about killing the RTs next time? Often I see alien team that let marines have 4-5 RTs for the whole game and then start whining when ARC train rolls over them after half an hour.
Those things arnt really connected in my mind. It's like how people used to defend flamethrowers (when they were instakill weapons) by saying you just have to stop marines getting tier 2 weapons. If they have instakill weapons its your fault for not stopping them, etc.
Killing RTs to stop marines getting res is about tactics. You're right that aliens should try to do that.
Marines being able to get all those things together which take out an entire hive room in seconds is kind of gameplay braking.
There's no equivalent on the alien side. You could get 10 whips together but you need pustules leading into a marine room + a long long time for them to destroy the marine buildings.
<!--quoteo(post=1888143:date=Dec 3 2011, 08:49 AM:name=Mkk_Bitestuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkk_Bitestuff @ Dec 3 2011, 08:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the aimbot marines that I knew have no real intention of playing NS2 currently (...) aliens (except the fade) would stand no chance against marines with that kind of aim, no matter what you do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Soon the clips in both his penis and testicle will be empty, and he desperately whips out his axe, running from ammo to medpack, as a pack of angry aliens close in to gang rape the damn skiller. The one second that he needs to reload is more than enough.
Who wants those "aimbot marines" anyway. Let them play real shooters where they can get owned by tanks, helis.
<!--quoteo(post=1888146:date=Dec 3 2011, 09:02 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 09:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888146"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Killing RTs to stop marines getting res is about tactics. You're right that aliens should try to do that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tactics? Never heard of. Strategy? <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>RAAAWRRRR!!!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1888142:date=Dec 3 2011, 02:49 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888142"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is annoying. PLEASE limit number of ARCs which can exist at one time.
If you let marines get that much res, dont expect you get alot of arcs. Weapon vs arcs->bile bomb. If you dont have two hive and marines coming with alot of arcs, you failed and you deserve to lose.
<!--quoteo(post=1888142:date=Dec 3 2011, 02:49 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888142"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is annoying. PLEASE limit number of ARCs which can exist at one time.
I could honestly say the same about all those Hydra/Whip/Crag camps i have been seeing, stuff takes for ever to take down IF your lucky enough to have no aliens there. Whips stop you from using grenades, hydras from getting inline to do some normal damage and normal bullets or fire gets almost outhealed by the crags anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1888146:date=Dec 3 2011, 03:02 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888146"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those things arnt really connected in my mind. It's like how people used to defend flamethrowers (when they were instakill weapons) by saying you just have to stop marines getting tier 2 weapons. If they have instakill weapons its your fault for not stopping them, etc.
Killing RTs to stop marines getting res is about tactics. You're right that aliens should try to do that.
Marines being able to get all those things together which take out an entire hive room in seconds is kind of gameplay braking.
There's no equivalent on the alien side. You could get 10 whips together but you need pustules leading into a marine room + a long long time for them to destroy the marine buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But marines have to do the same thing when it comes to fades, the arguments for fades are always "well u just have to stop them from getting a 2nd hive" (which imo is harder now with random starts) or "you just have to stick together with 3-4 people" which is also not that much of an option, a fade can still take on 2-3 people easily if they just have basic weapons, maybe they wont take them all out but at least 1 or 2 will fall.
Hell, maybe i played with/vs anyone the last few days, i have been getting fade kills like crazy, but every time it was because they stormed into our base, killed 2-3 people, got hit hard by them or the sentries and i just stopped them from leaving again.
The next few round we just lost because there were actually more then 1 or 2 fades, we kept getting killed no matter where we went, eventually being stuck in our base, constantly being attacked by fades. Imo fades are still somewhat to strong, they are the alien currently that does the most damage, has the highest health, does the highest damage (2shot kills ftw) and on top of that is the fastest with an ability that makes him invisible and immortal.
Mind you, i like playing fade myself and such but to me they still feel to strong for just a tier 2 alien (compared to marine tier2 weapons) and imo its not exactly fair to say "exo/hmg counters fade" as those are tier3 tech, ment to be on par with the onos not the fade.
Imo vs 1 player fade should be able to lose 5% of the time, maybe on average lose 1/3 to 1/2 of his health, vs 2 marines he should have a risk of dying, not like its now only vs 3-4 marines with still a chance to blink out.
On a side note, i really like the rifle now, the faster firing rate really made it a viable option to stick with for a while.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1888129:date=Dec 3 2011, 01:01 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 3 2011, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888129"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as I've understood, the problem is more about where to improve as a fade. It's very easy to go for the killing spree in newbie vs newbie game, but as the skill goes up, the fade doesn't really go that much up in potential. The basic blink mechanic is really easy (maybe even too easy) to use, but it doesn't leave enough space for improving your game. It's once again the marine aiming skill vs alien movement skill issue where aliens haven't got enough potential skill improvement to match the marine skill of aiming.
Someone with better understanding of present NS2 correct me if necessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The current blink implementation has an almost flat skill curve once you get over the initial "durr how dis work?" phase. It doesn't quite translate into weak fades at the moment though, but that's not because the average marine aim is bad (it is bad though), but because it's almost impossible to die as fade if you know what you're doing. The ability to go invincible while still being able to run away is basically too strong. If you manage to die as fade right now, it's because you didn't run away to heal when you should have.
<!--quoteo(post=1888161:date=Dec 3 2011, 05:13 PM:name=Dragon-Guard)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dragon-Guard @ Dec 3 2011, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->with an ability that makes him invisible and immortal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is the problem. The current blink implementation is basically an "I win" button. The only times I ever die as fade is when I get bored because it's too easy and stop caring.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Which is why bullets should still damage fades while they're blinking. Maybe as an upgrade or something. So a fade can't just blink straight to you through your bullets and straight out of battle if they are at low health. If their blinks are predictable they can still die.
I think it would be fun as a fade arcing around marine bullets streams while blinking. Maybe giving blink vision a bigger tracer effect on the bullets.
It would greatly improve the survivability of marines if they locked down an area and would remove some of the unfairness the current system has.
<!--quoteo(post=1888132:date=Dec 3 2011, 01:29 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whats this? Hydras sleep?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Technical term, refers to them not taking up any processing cycles, which of course improves performance.
I heard something about server tickrates only dropping when the server is actually full, regardless of player count?
As a perma-gorge it breaks my heart a little to see belly slide removed off infestation. Early combat gorge with a team of skulks was one of the most enjoyable things to do. This effectively disables the ability for an aggressive gorge to escape and reduces it's evasive capabilities. Example: Even with good infestation spread, the need to belly slide away from grenades or a sneaky shotgunner while bile bombing at the front lines is crucial.
<u>B188 combat gorge was very clearly over powered, but to flat out remove the ability off infestation, especially one that contributes to skill based play, is too big a cut. </u> I noticed the energy regeneration boost on infestation and the ability to launch cysts / hydras, and i know that there are more abilities planned for the gorge. I like that the new quicker belly was kept on infestation, Gorges can be a boss on alien territory. Plus im sure that we will see a lot more infestation spread because of this and these are all good things. Still... nothing makes up for right-in-the-action game play which this definitely <b><u>cuts into harshly</u></b> for the gorge...and therefore the team.
Are there other movement based ability's or buff's planed for the Gorge / Aliens ?
<i>Random thought while re-reading some of the last posts..... Imagine the potential for marine slow pushes now that gorges can be so easily caught by marines while bile bombing. With gorges being as squishy as they are after the last several patches (self-heal nurf, disabling attack damage upgrades on gorge[and now team], LMG buffs and more wide spread GL use). Just think of the ARC pushes from skilled marines with less threat from bile bomb. </i>
<!--quoteo(post=1888146:date=Dec 3 2011, 02:02 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888146"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those things arnt really connected in my mind. It's like how people used to defend flamethrowers (when they were instakill weapons) by saying you just have to stop marines getting tier 2 weapons. If they have instakill weapons its your fault for not stopping them, etc.
Killing RTs to stop marines getting res is about tactics. You're right that aliens should try to do that.
Marines being able to get all those things together which take out an entire hive room in seconds is kind of gameplay braking.
There's no equivalent on the alien side. You could get 10 whips together but you need pustules leading into a marine room + a long long time for them to destroy the marine buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A team full of onoses would rather rapidly annihilate a base.
It doesn't really matter what you nerf, having a massive resource lead will cause you to win in any game that places value on resources.
<!--quoteo(post=1888174:date=Dec 3 2011, 06:22 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 3 2011, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888174"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the problem. The current blink implementation is basically an "I win" button. The only times I ever die as fade is when I get bored because it's too easy and stop caring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm... I might actually experiment a bit with the blink lua code once I've got some spare time at christmas (and possibly some hardware that allows me to run the present game and manageable FPS!). I've got some ideas how to create a blink that isn't quite the same as NS1, but still at least somewhat more vulnerable and challenging than the present NS2 implementation.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on improving blink?
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
I think the blink problem comes from energy management. Currently you can blink and hit stuff way to often. I think you should only have the energy for the following: Blink into combat Make around 4 hits Blink out of combat
Currently a fade can repeat that cycle way too often
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
It really doesn't matter much how you modify the current blink in terms of energy management, or the fade in terms of hp/armor, or similar changes, because you're always going to be limited by the fact that this blink implementation has a nearly flat learning curve. Instead of a game of player skill vs. player skill, you have a game of numbers vs. numbers.
In an fps/rts hybrid you need a bit of both of course, but there needs to be a balance. It might be possible to modify the blink mechanics themselves to fix this without falling back to the NS1 model, but I don't have any suggestions.
<!--quoteo(post=1888222:date=Dec 4 2011, 12:12 AM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Dec 4 2011, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888222"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the blink problem comes from energy management. Currently you can blink and hit stuff way to often. I think you should only have the energy for the following: Blink into combat Make around 4 hits Blink out of combat
Currently a fade can repeat that cycle way too often<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is too often for you? If I do that cycle twise in a row I'm pretty much out of energy. Adding in a combat blink and I certainly can't make a continous blink out. Besides that, against well aiming marines you should not be able to do more then one attack, two if you get lucky, before retreating to heal. But as Fanatic said, if you play carefull you shouldn't really die, but sometimes you have to risk it to stop a push. Then again, it's a real pain trying to take down turrets as a fade, they blast through your health in seconds after they have tracked you.
<!--quoteo(post=1888231:date=Dec 4 2011, 01:27 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 4 2011, 01:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888231"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In an fps/rts hybrid you need a bit of both of course, but there needs to be a balance. It might be possible to modify the blink mechanics themselves to fix this without falling back to the NS1 model, but I don't have any suggestions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What made blink use skillfull in ns1? I never played much fade there myself, prefered skulking/gorging/lerking. Let's take a look on what aspect that could acount for more skill in blinking, because that's really what I think needs to be improved. The numbers can be tweaked accordingly.
Blinking
<ul><li>Flying visible where you pointed while draining energy - <i>The main difference is that marines now can't track you while blinking. Does that make blinking less skillful? I don't think so, but it makes it harder to counter for marines. I think strafing while blinking just curved you. Adding the ability to blink in any direction, requires and takes away skill. You have to more options for escape, wich makes blinking easier. But at the same time, it can be used more skillfully then before. </i>
</li><li>Switching from blink to swipe - <i>got removed with the introduction of the +movement key, but just added a slight delay (and slight skill) to your first attack.</i>
</li><li>Killing flying targets - <i>when you left blink you started falling, needed to predict movement to time your swipe to hit; the same should happen now once we get jetpacks. I think it's this last part that really made for skilled fades and not. And we haven't been in those situations yet.</i></li></ul>
That's the aspects of blinking that comes to my mind. Ignoring bunnyhopping blinking fades, as I don't think we need yet another bhop discussion.
I think blinking now is different, but probably doesn't require less skill to do. The main difference is that a carefull fade now have less chance of dieing. The blinking itself isn't easier.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1888235:date=Dec 4 2011, 01:55 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 4 2011, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888235"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never played much fade there myself, prefered skulking/gorging/lerking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't only directed towards you: I don't understand why people keep doing this -- if you don't know what you're talking about, why post?
<!--quoteo(post=1888235:date=Dec 4 2011, 01:55 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 4 2011, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888235"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The blinking itself isn't easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is. I could address your points and write a long post about this, but I've tried to do it in other threads before and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Short version:
Removing soft restrictions by simplifying mechanics doesn't actually add complexity, it removes complexity. It removes/softens the requirement of practice. There isn't actually anything you can do with the new blink (other than the invisible and invincible bit...) that you couldn't do with the NS1 blink. The difference is just that it's a lot easier to do the same things. The +movement addition in NS 3.2 actually had a similar effect, but fortunately there were still a few elements left that rewarded time spent practicing.
From experience: I had to practice heavily for years to master the NS1 fade. Comparatively, after a couple of months of sporadically playing NS2 I can honestly say that there isn't much left to learn.
You could remove the invisibility and invincibility, and beef up health/armor to compensate, and the learning curve would still be almost as shallow. It would be easier to balance of course, but it still wouldn't reward time spent practicing in any meaningful way.
<!--quoteo(post=1888239:date=Dec 4 2011, 02:38 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 4 2011, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This isn't only directed towards you: I don't understand why people keep doing this -- if you don't know what you're talking about, why post?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because we care and want to know and try to improve it? What do you think would need to be added to give more of a skillcurve to blinking?
I agree with you, but as I don't have first hand experience myself, it's not as easy to know what it lacks. And I mention my lack of experience because I don't see why I should pretend I know :)
Yeah the fade skill curve is going to be hard to fix. He needs to be more vulnerable to marine counters but faster.
Any low skilled fade can counter a well planned marine ambush by just disappearing. How is that good gameplay? Particularly as though fades are comparatively cheap in NS2.
Making blink sounds louder would be a good start (along with the rest of the positional sounds).
But as long as he can disappear mid fight, or mid ambush, and as long as the only nerf you can make against that play is to introduce energy timers... managing timers and energy does not a learning curve make.
To Fana's comments on the flat skill curve fade... can't you say the same for the entire game? Skulks, for example. It's not like NS1; there's just not that much to learn. I think the problem is one-dimensional thinking in movement skill design... like someone who doesn't know how to strafe made it, or someone who uses keyboard arrows to aim. When you play NS1, it's like you have to see everything at once in fluid motion. I'm talking white dot focus versus <a href="http://www.seishindokenpo.com/ska/index.php/Black_Dot_Focus" target="_blank">black dot focus</a> here. The problem is also linearity in time... the acceleration does not have complexity. It's not like piloting the most hardcore fighter jet, it's more like driving a truck, or using that tram vehicle in HL1.
For me, this applies to all the classes. I don't know what I would do to fix it. The thing is, it's fine for most players now because they don't notice. It's quite fun to play for them I'm sure. And it's fun to rack up 150 kills as fade without dying on a stalemate. But it's not the kind of fun that lasts.
<b>It's just not going to hold up to the ages like NS1 did</b>, unless movement is addressed in a fundamental way. That may not be the priority up until v1.0, but it should be eventually.
The good news is, the game has advanced so far now that we can start talking about things like this. That's exciting.
Yeh alien movement in ns2 makes me sad, cause I quite frankly love ns1's movement, no other game has ever come close to the satisfaction of celerity fading/skulking/lerking. And ns2 just doesn't have that sense of control and smoothness that comes from the mid air strafing in ns1 :(
** Quick early hour thought, what if fade's just went invisible rather than becoming immortal and taking damage made them visible for a short time, which could be a nice alternative way of using flamethrowers as a counter to fades as the dmg over time burn would keep them visible for a while, rather than the fun destroying energy drain.
<!--quoteo(post=1888211:date=Dec 4 2011, 07:44 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 4 2011, 07:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... I might actually experiment a bit with the blink lua code once I've got some spare time at christmas (and possibly some hardware that allows me to run the present game and manageable FPS!). I've got some ideas how to create a blink that isn't quite the same as NS1, but still at least somewhat more vulnerable and challenging than the present NS2 implementation.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on improving blink?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1888211:date=Dec 4 2011, 07:44 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 4 2011, 07:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... I might actually experiment a bit with the blink lua code once I've got some spare time at christmas (and possibly some hardware that allows me to run the present game and manageable FPS!). I've got some ideas how to create a blink that isn't quite the same as NS1, but still at least somewhat more vulnerable and challenging than the present NS2 implementation.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on improving blink?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always been partial to aliens (simce 1.04). But, fade has never been preferred class. Too brutish :p never the less, I do FADE from time 2 time. Esp in this BETA
I don't think the Fade needs 'actual' nerfing. The alterations could be more 'psychological'. What I mean is, that during blink, perhaps a strobeing effect of the 'netherrealm' around will further disorientate the player. Alternatively, Implementing a drop-and-roll manouvre for marines, which would should the FADE have a skulk accompaniment, be generally a bad idea as skulk would find rolling marines like an easy lunch.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1888242:date=Dec 4 2011, 02:56 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 4 2011, 02:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888242"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because we care and want to know and try to improve it? What do you think would need to be added to give more of a skillcurve to blinking?
I agree with you, but as I don't have first hand experience myself, it's not as easy to know what it lacks. And I mention my lack of experience because I don't see why I should pretend I know :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough. To the question: I wish I had any good ideas. The only experience I have with a system that works is the NS1 blink. Perhaps a hybrid between the current and NS1, but to make that work they'd have to add air acceleration and even the idea of that seems anathema around these parts.
<!--quoteo(post=1888245:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:21 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Dec 4 2011, 04:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To Fana's comments on the flat skill curve fade... can't you say the same for the entire game? Skulks, for example. It's not like NS1; there's just not that much to learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, you can, but the fade is the biggest problem. Skulks have a lot of other options to fall back on, even if it is step back from NS1. The problems with the Lerk will sort themselves out as they'll become apparent soon enough.
<!--quoteo(post=1888248:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:33 AM:name=Laggasaurus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laggasaurus @ Dec 4 2011, 04:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what if fade's just went invisible rather than becoming immortal and taking damage made them visible for a short time, which could be a nice alternative way of using flamethrowers as a counter to fades as the dmg over time burn would keep them visible for a while, rather than the fun destroying energy drain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Makes it easier to balance but doesn't fix the underlying learning curve problem.
<!--quoteo(post=1888249:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:46 AM:name=measles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (measles @ Dec 4 2011, 04:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888249"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I mean is, that during blink, perhaps a strobeing effect of the 'netherrealm' around will further disorientate the player. Alternatively, Implementing a drop-and-roll manouvre for marines, which would should the FADE have a skulk accompaniment, be generally a bad idea as skulk would find rolling marines like an easy lunch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol
<!--quoteo(post=1888245:date=Dec 4 2011, 03:21 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Dec 4 2011, 03:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>It's just not going to hold up to the ages like NS1 did</b>, unless movement is addressed in a fundamental way. That may not be the priority up until v1.0, but it should be eventually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it might be necessary start adding it way sooner. Things like NS1 movement system and Starcraft: Brood War micro mechanics are so amazing partially because they are based on the engine and game system in general and not added afterwards on top of everything else as separate features. As a result they blend in naturally with the rest of the play and can be combined or transitioned into from multiple situations and actions.
There's also kind of exploration with the possibilities, because nothing tells you where the exact limits go. You're only asked whether you can somehow keep things within the internal engine level rules of a game and not within some strict and restrictive high level feature design.
<!--quoteo(post=1888252:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:38 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 4 2011, 04:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only experience I have with a system that works is the NS1 blink. Perhaps a hybrid between the current and NS1, but to make that work they'd have to add air acceleration and even the idea of that seems anathema around these parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My primary idea of improving the blink ends up being somewhat of a hybrid. I hope I can somehow twist and bend the present set of rules to work with the new system, but I don't think there's any guarantee of anything until I get a bit better understanding of the present system.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
What about making the ft a better fade counter? Either drain more energy, prohibit teleporting while on fire.. What about making the ft an anti structure and abilities or energy weapn, that does very little damage to players
Why can marines not simply buy mines? I mean i would love it! Same way like now, need to research but marines can also buy them. Also i have notice the peformence drop ALOT. I was skulk and in the room right with first RT at summit and it drops so much down, it feels like 4 fps. I have no idea whats happend with build 189 but the peformence is very slow. I like the idea you turn the hydras into sleep mode while nobody is there (ns2hd) but the peformence drop a lot.
System: W7 x64 medium graphics AMD Phenom II X4 955e @ 800 MHz (<- EDIT This is the MHz if im Surfing, on default its 3.0 GHz ) 4096 MB RAM AMD Radeon HD 6850 Series @ 1GB Ram Windows Performance Index : 5.9 / 7.9
I love the new gorge feature that he can spit structures to walls. made the game way more balanced.
p.s. someone said in the chat about r_atmospherics or something i forget it, could this help?
<!--quoteo(post=1888252:date=Dec 4 2011, 05:38 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 4 2011, 05:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fair enough. To the question: I wish I had any good ideas. The only experience I have with a system that works is the NS1 blink. Perhaps a hybrid between the current and NS1, but to make that work they'd have to add air acceleration and even the idea of that seems anathema around these parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1888261:date=Dec 4 2011, 08:19 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 4 2011, 08:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888261"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My primary idea of improving the blink ends up being somewhat of a hybrid. I hope I can somehow twist and bend the present set of rules to work with the new system, but I don't think there's any guarantee of anything until I get a bit better understanding of the present system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been thinking for awhile now, and probably dreaming abit about blinking while I slept. I think that if you added something to blinking wich you needed to keep track of and get a feeling for, then it would become more skillfull to do so. The idea I got sure has some flaws (oddity of what you'll see during blinking), but atleast it would become harder to master.
The basic is that the actual blink would work exactely as it does now, but your camera would stay behind in the cloud where you started the blink. No indication such as the ghost fade would be visible like in the early beta, you would just see what happens around the location you blinked from. Adding this, it would require alot more practise and mapknowledge to end your blink where you want. A secondary skill on this implemation would be that since the position change of blink is instantaious, the fade would need to do the same adoptation to the new location and aim accordingly as the marines have to.
<!--quoteo(post=1888273:date=Dec 4 2011, 06:54 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Dec 4 2011, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why can marines not simply buy mines? I mean i would love it! Same way like now, need to research but marines can also buy them. Also i have notice the peformence drop ALOT. I was skulk and in the room right with first RT at summit and it drops so much down, it feels like 4 fps. I have no idea whats happend with build 189 but the peformence is very slow. I like the idea you turn the hydras into sleep mode while nobody is there (ns2hd) but the peformence drop a lot.
System: W7 x64 medium graphics AMD Phenom II X4 955e @ 800 MHz 4096 MB RAM AMD Radeon HD 6850 Series @ 1GB Ram Windows Performance Index : 5.9 / 7.9
I love the new gorge feature that he can spit structures to walls. made the game way more balanced.
p.s. someone said in the chat about r_atmospherics or something i forget it, could this help?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a very similar system and similar problems, turning off atmospherics and bloom didn't help at all.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1888273:date=Dec 4 2011, 09:54 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Dec 4 2011, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love the new gorge feature that he can spit structures to walls. made the game way more balanced.
p.s. someone said in the chat about r_atmospherics or something i forget it, could this help?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol, gorge planting structures on walls and cielings is hardly something that affects balance. Anyway, type r_atmospherics false in the console if you want to remove the "thick" lighting. Doesn't help much with performance though, no graphics options does that. r_stats shows your FPS. net_stats shows how well the server runs, and how many updates you recieve. If server rate is low, you get fewer updates, and that affects your FPS, 30 server tickrate is the optimal number at the moment. If the server rate is below that, a round/server restart might be needed. Dropping down to 20 is considered okay for the current version.
Comments
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/HL7l9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about killing the RTs next time? Often I see alien team that let marines have 4-5 RTs for the whole game and then start whining when ARC train rolls over them after half an hour.
Killing RTs to stop marines getting res is about tactics. You're right that aliens should try to do that.
Marines being able to get all those things together which take out an entire hive room in seconds is kind of gameplay braking.
There's no equivalent on the alien side. You could get 10 whips together but you need pustules leading into a marine room + a long long time for them to destroy the marine buildings.
Soon the clips in both his penis and testicle will be empty, and he desperately whips out his axe, running from ammo to medpack, as a pack of angry aliens close in to gang rape the damn skiller. The one second that he needs to reload is more than enough.
Who wants those "aimbot marines" anyway. Let them play real shooters where they can get owned by tanks, helis.
Tactics? Never heard of.
Strategy? <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>RAAAWRRRR!!!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/HL7l9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you let marines get that much res, dont expect you get alot of arcs. Weapon vs arcs->bile bomb. If you dont have two hive and marines coming with alot of arcs, you failed and you deserve to lose.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/HL7l9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could honestly say the same about all those Hydra/Whip/Crag camps i have been seeing, stuff takes for ever to take down IF your lucky enough to have no aliens there.
Whips stop you from using grenades, hydras from getting inline to do some normal damage and normal bullets or fire gets almost outhealed by the crags anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1888146:date=Dec 3 2011, 03:02 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2011, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888146"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those things arnt really connected in my mind. It's like how people used to defend flamethrowers (when they were instakill weapons) by saying you just have to stop marines getting tier 2 weapons. If they have instakill weapons its your fault for not stopping them, etc.
Killing RTs to stop marines getting res is about tactics. You're right that aliens should try to do that.
Marines being able to get all those things together which take out an entire hive room in seconds is kind of gameplay braking.
There's no equivalent on the alien side. You could get 10 whips together but you need pustules leading into a marine room + a long long time for them to destroy the marine buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But marines have to do the same thing when it comes to fades, the arguments for fades are always "well u just have to stop them from getting a 2nd hive" (which imo is harder now with random starts) or "you just have to stick together with 3-4 people" which is also not that much of an option, a fade can still take on 2-3 people easily if they just have basic weapons, maybe they wont take them all out but at least 1 or 2 will fall.
Hell, maybe i played with/vs anyone the last few days, i have been getting fade kills like crazy, but every time it was because they stormed into our base, killed 2-3 people, got hit hard by them or the sentries and i just stopped them from leaving again.
The next few round we just lost because there were actually more then 1 or 2 fades, we kept getting killed no matter where we went, eventually being stuck in our base, constantly being attacked by fades.
Imo fades are still somewhat to strong, they are the alien currently that does the most damage, has the highest health, does the highest damage (2shot kills ftw) and on top of that is the fastest with an ability that makes him invisible and immortal.
Mind you, i like playing fade myself and such but to me they still feel to strong for just a tier 2 alien (compared to marine tier2 weapons) and imo its not exactly fair to say "exo/hmg counters fade" as those are tier3 tech, ment to be on par with the onos not the fade.
Imo vs 1 player fade should be able to lose 5% of the time, maybe on average lose 1/3 to 1/2 of his health, vs 2 marines he should have a risk of dying, not like its now only vs 3-4 marines with still a chance to blink out.
On a side note, i really like the rifle now, the faster firing rate really made it a viable option to stick with for a while.
Someone with better understanding of present NS2 correct me if necessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The current blink implementation has an almost flat skill curve once you get over the initial "durr how dis work?" phase. It doesn't quite translate into weak fades at the moment though, but that's not because the average marine aim is bad (it is bad though), but because it's almost impossible to die as fade if you know what you're doing. The ability to go invincible while still being able to run away is basically too strong. If you manage to die as fade right now, it's because you didn't run away to heal when you should have.
<!--quoteo(post=1888161:date=Dec 3 2011, 05:13 PM:name=Dragon-Guard)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dragon-Guard @ Dec 3 2011, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->with an ability that makes him invisible and immortal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the problem. The current blink implementation is basically an "I win" button. The only times I ever die as fade is when I get bored because it's too easy and stop caring.
I think it would be fun as a fade arcing around marine bullets streams while blinking. Maybe giving blink vision a bigger tracer effect on the bullets.
It would greatly improve the survivability of marines if they locked down an area and would remove some of the unfairness the current system has.
Technical term, refers to them not taking up any processing cycles, which of course improves performance.
I heard something about server tickrates only dropping when the server is actually full, regardless of player count?
Example: Even with good infestation spread, the need to belly slide away from grenades or a sneaky shotgunner while bile bombing at the front lines is crucial.
<u>B188 combat gorge was very clearly over powered, but to flat out remove the ability off infestation, especially one that contributes to skill based play, is too big a cut.
</u>
I noticed the energy regeneration boost on infestation and the ability to launch cysts / hydras, and i know that there are more abilities planned for the gorge. I like that the new quicker belly was kept on infestation, Gorges can be a boss on alien territory. Plus im sure that we will see a lot more infestation spread because of this and these are all good things. Still... nothing makes up for right-in-the-action game play which this definitely <b><u>cuts into harshly</u></b> for the gorge...and therefore the team.
Are there other movement based ability's or buff's planed for the Gorge / Aliens ?
<i>Random thought while re-reading some of the last posts..... Imagine the potential for marine slow pushes now that gorges can be so easily caught by marines while bile bombing. With gorges being as squishy as they are after the last several patches (self-heal nurf, disabling attack damage upgrades on gorge[and now team], LMG buffs and more wide spread GL use). Just think of the ARC pushes from skilled marines with less threat from bile bomb.
</i>
They.
Killing RTs to stop marines getting res is about tactics. You're right that aliens should try to do that.
Marines being able to get all those things together which take out an entire hive room in seconds is kind of gameplay braking.
There's no equivalent on the alien side. You could get 10 whips together but you need pustules leading into a marine room + a long long time for them to destroy the marine buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A team full of onoses would rather rapidly annihilate a base.
It doesn't really matter what you nerf, having a massive resource lead will cause you to win in any game that places value on resources.
Hmm... I might actually experiment a bit with the blink lua code once I've got some spare time at christmas (and possibly some hardware that allows me to run the present game and manageable FPS!). I've got some ideas how to create a blink that isn't quite the same as NS1, but still at least somewhat more vulnerable and challenging than the present NS2 implementation.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on improving blink?
Currently you can blink and hit stuff way to often. I think you should only have the energy for the following:
Blink into combat
Make around 4 hits
Blink out of combat
Currently a fade can repeat that cycle way too often
In an fps/rts hybrid you need a bit of both of course, but there needs to be a balance. It might be possible to modify the blink mechanics themselves to fix this without falling back to the NS1 model, but I don't have any suggestions.
Currently you can blink and hit stuff way to often. I think you should only have the energy for the following:
Blink into combat
Make around 4 hits
Blink out of combat
Currently a fade can repeat that cycle way too often<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is too often for you? If I do that cycle twise in a row I'm pretty much out of energy. Adding in a combat blink and I certainly can't make a continous blink out. Besides that, against well aiming marines you should not be able to do more then one attack, two if you get lucky, before retreating to heal. But as Fanatic said, if you play carefull you shouldn't really die, but sometimes you have to risk it to stop a push. Then again, it's a real pain trying to take down turrets as a fade, they blast through your health in seconds after they have tracked you.
What made blink use skillfull in ns1? I never played much fade there myself, prefered skulking/gorging/lerking.
Let's take a look on what aspect that could acount for more skill in blinking, because that's really what I think needs to be improved. The numbers can be tweaked accordingly.
Blinking
<ul><li>Flying visible where you pointed while draining energy - <i>The main difference is that marines now can't track you while blinking. Does that make blinking less skillful? I don't think so, but it makes it harder to counter for marines. I think strafing while blinking just curved you. Adding the ability to blink in any direction, requires and takes away skill. You have to more options for escape, wich makes blinking easier. But at the same time, it can be used more skillfully then before. </i>
</li><li>Switching from blink to swipe - <i>got removed with the introduction of the +movement key, but just added a slight delay (and slight skill) to your first attack.</i>
</li><li>Killing flying targets - <i>when you left blink you started falling, needed to predict movement to time your swipe to hit; the same should happen now once we get jetpacks. I think it's this last part that really made for skilled fades and not. And we haven't been in those situations yet.</i></li></ul>
That's the aspects of blinking that comes to my mind. Ignoring bunnyhopping blinking fades, as I don't think we need yet another bhop discussion.
I think blinking now is different, but probably doesn't require less skill to do. The main difference is that a carefull fade now have less chance of dieing. The blinking itself isn't easier.
This isn't only directed towards you: I don't understand why people keep doing this -- if you don't know what you're talking about, why post?
<!--quoteo(post=1888235:date=Dec 4 2011, 01:55 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 4 2011, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888235"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The blinking itself isn't easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is. I could address your points and write a long post about this, but I've tried to do it in other threads before and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Short version:
Removing soft restrictions by simplifying mechanics doesn't actually add complexity, it removes complexity. It removes/softens the requirement of practice. There isn't actually anything you can do with the new blink (other than the invisible and invincible bit...) that you couldn't do with the NS1 blink. The difference is just that it's a lot easier to do the same things. The +movement addition in NS 3.2 actually had a similar effect, but fortunately there were still a few elements left that rewarded time spent practicing.
From experience: I had to practice heavily for years to master the NS1 fade. Comparatively, after a couple of months of sporadically playing NS2 I can honestly say that there isn't much left to learn.
You could remove the invisibility and invincibility, and beef up health/armor to compensate, and the learning curve would still be almost as shallow. It would be easier to balance of course, but it still wouldn't reward time spent practicing in any meaningful way.
Because we care and want to know and try to improve it? What do you think would need to be added to give more of a skillcurve to blinking?
I agree with you, but as I don't have first hand experience myself, it's not as easy to know what it lacks. And I mention my lack of experience because I don't see why I should pretend I know :)
Any low skilled fade can counter a well planned marine ambush by just disappearing. How is that good gameplay? Particularly as though fades are comparatively cheap in NS2.
Making blink sounds louder would be a good start (along with the rest of the positional sounds).
But as long as he can disappear mid fight, or mid ambush, and as long as the only nerf you can make against that play is to introduce energy timers... managing timers and energy does not a learning curve make.
For me, this applies to all the classes. I don't know what I would do to fix it. The thing is, it's fine for most players now because they don't notice. It's quite fun to play for them I'm sure. And it's fun to rack up 150 kills as fade without dying on a stalemate. But it's not the kind of fun that lasts.
<b>It's just not going to hold up to the ages like NS1 did</b>, unless movement is addressed in a fundamental way. That may not be the priority up until v1.0, but it should be eventually.
The good news is, the game has advanced so far now that we can start talking about things like this. That's exciting.
** Quick early hour thought, what if fade's just went invisible rather than becoming immortal and taking damage made them visible for a short time, which could be a nice alternative way of using flamethrowers as a counter to fades as the dmg over time burn would keep them visible for a while, rather than the fun destroying energy drain.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on improving blink?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1888211:date=Dec 4 2011, 07:44 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 4 2011, 07:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... I might actually experiment a bit with the blink lua code once I've got some spare time at christmas (and possibly some hardware that allows me to run the present game and manageable FPS!). I've got some ideas how to create a blink that isn't quite the same as NS1, but still at least somewhat more vulnerable and challenging than the present NS2 implementation.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on improving blink?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always been partial to aliens (simce 1.04). But, fade has never been preferred class. Too brutish :p
never the less, I do FADE from time 2 time. Esp in this BETA
I don't think the Fade needs 'actual' nerfing. The alterations could be more 'psychological'. What I mean is, that during blink, perhaps a strobeing effect of the 'netherrealm' around will further disorientate the player.
Alternatively, Implementing a drop-and-roll manouvre for marines, which would should the FADE have a skulk accompaniment, be generally a bad idea as skulk would find rolling marines like an easy lunch.
I agree with you, but as I don't have first hand experience myself, it's not as easy to know what it lacks. And I mention my lack of experience because I don't see why I should pretend I know :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. To the question: I wish I had any good ideas. The only experience I have with a system that works is the NS1 blink. Perhaps a hybrid between the current and NS1, but to make that work they'd have to add air acceleration and even the idea of that seems anathema around these parts.
<!--quoteo(post=1888245:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:21 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Dec 4 2011, 04:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To Fana's comments on the flat skill curve fade... can't you say the same for the entire game? Skulks, for example. It's not like NS1; there's just not that much to learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, you can, but the fade is the biggest problem. Skulks have a lot of other options to fall back on, even if it is step back from NS1. The problems with the Lerk will sort themselves out as they'll become apparent soon enough.
<!--quoteo(post=1888248:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:33 AM:name=Laggasaurus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laggasaurus @ Dec 4 2011, 04:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what if fade's just went invisible rather than becoming immortal and taking damage made them visible for a short time, which could be a nice alternative way of using flamethrowers as a counter to fades as the dmg over time burn would keep them visible for a while, rather than the fun destroying energy drain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Makes it easier to balance but doesn't fix the underlying learning curve problem.
<!--quoteo(post=1888249:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:46 AM:name=measles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (measles @ Dec 4 2011, 04:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888249"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I mean is, that during blink, perhaps a strobeing effect of the 'netherrealm' around will further disorientate the player.
Alternatively, Implementing a drop-and-roll manouvre for marines, which would should the FADE have a skulk accompaniment, be generally a bad idea as skulk would find rolling marines like an easy lunch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
I think it might be necessary start adding it way sooner. Things like NS1 movement system and Starcraft: Brood War micro mechanics are so amazing partially because they are based on the engine and game system in general and not added afterwards on top of everything else as separate features. As a result they blend in naturally with the rest of the play and can be combined or transitioned into from multiple situations and actions.
There's also kind of exploration with the possibilities, because nothing tells you where the exact limits go. You're only asked whether you can somehow keep things within the internal engine level rules of a game and not within some strict and restrictive high level feature design.
<!--quoteo(post=1888252:date=Dec 4 2011, 04:38 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 4 2011, 04:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only experience I have with a system that works is the NS1 blink. Perhaps a hybrid between the current and NS1, but to make that work they'd have to add air acceleration and even the idea of that seems anathema around these parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My primary idea of improving the blink ends up being somewhat of a hybrid. I hope I can somehow twist and bend the present set of rules to work with the new system, but I don't think there's any guarantee of anything until I get a bit better understanding of the present system.
What about making the ft an anti structure and abilities or energy weapn, that does very little damage to players
I mean i would love it!
Same way like now, need to research but marines can also buy them.
Also i have notice the peformence drop ALOT.
I was skulk and in the room right with first RT at summit and it drops so much down, it feels like 4 fps.
I have no idea whats happend with build 189 but the peformence is very slow.
I like the idea you turn the hydras into sleep mode while nobody is there (ns2hd) but the peformence drop a lot.
System:
W7 x64
medium graphics
AMD Phenom II X4 955e @ 800 MHz (<- EDIT This is the MHz if im Surfing, on default its 3.0 GHz )
4096 MB RAM
AMD Radeon HD 6850 Series @ 1GB Ram
Windows Performance Index : 5.9 / 7.9
I love the new gorge feature that he can spit structures to walls.
made the game way more balanced.
p.s. someone said in the chat about r_atmospherics or something i forget it, could this help?
<!--quoteo(post=1888261:date=Dec 4 2011, 08:19 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Dec 4 2011, 08:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888261"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My primary idea of improving the blink ends up being somewhat of a hybrid. I hope I can somehow twist and bend the present set of rules to work with the new system, but I don't think there's any guarantee of anything until I get a bit better understanding of the present system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been thinking for awhile now, and probably dreaming abit about blinking while I slept. I think that if you added something to blinking wich you needed to keep track of and get a feeling for, then it would become more skillfull to do so. The idea I got sure has some flaws (oddity of what you'll see during blinking), but atleast it would become harder to master.
The basic is that the actual blink would work exactely as it does now, but your camera would stay behind in the cloud where you started the blink. No indication such as the ghost fade would be visible like in the early beta, you would just see what happens around the location you blinked from. Adding this, it would require alot more practise and mapknowledge to end your blink where you want. A secondary skill on this implemation would be that since the position change of blink is instantaious, the fade would need to do the same adoptation to the new location and aim accordingly as the marines have to.
I mean i would love it!
Same way like now, need to research but marines can also buy them.
Also i have notice the peformence drop ALOT.
I was skulk and in the room right with first RT at summit and it drops so much down, it feels like 4 fps.
I have no idea whats happend with build 189 but the peformence is very slow.
I like the idea you turn the hydras into sleep mode while nobody is there (ns2hd) but the peformence drop a lot.
System:
W7 x64
medium graphics
AMD Phenom II X4 955e @ 800 MHz
4096 MB RAM
AMD Radeon HD 6850 Series @ 1GB Ram
Windows Performance Index : 5.9 / 7.9
I love the new gorge feature that he can spit structures to walls.
made the game way more balanced.
p.s. someone said in the chat about r_atmospherics or something i forget it, could this help?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a very similar system and similar problems, turning off atmospherics and bloom didn't help at all.
made the game way more balanced.
p.s. someone said in the chat about r_atmospherics or something i forget it, could this help?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, gorge planting structures on walls and cielings is hardly something that affects balance.
Anyway, type r_atmospherics false in the console if you want to remove the "thick" lighting.
Doesn't help much with performance though, no graphics options does that.
r_stats shows your FPS.
net_stats shows how well the server runs, and how many updates you recieve.
If server rate is low, you get fewer updates, and that affects your FPS, 30 server tickrate is the optimal number at the moment.
If the server rate is below that, a round/server restart might be needed. Dropping down to 20 is considered okay for the current version.