Alien buildings and upgrades

Asraniel

I wanted to start a small discussion on the current way the alien upgrades are done.
You can research upgrades in the whip, crag and shade. I'm specially unhappy with the fact that there are upgrades in the whip.
The whip is supposed to be a building at the frontline. Placing upgrades in it does not make much sense to me. You will end up with one useless whip hidden in your base, that is only used for upgrades. To some exctend the crag and shade have the same problem, you will want to hide one to do the upgrades.
Even worse, the mature whip/crag will be first built on the hidden one.

Now i'm not sure how to solve this problem. How about having a special upgrades building? Or doing upgrades in the hives? The upgrades can still be linked to the whips/crags/shades, but as long as one is present you can do the upgrade.

Any other ideas are welcome, i'm mostly brainstorming here.

Zeikko

There are also new ideas about structures and upgrades in the design document: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrBsO0m0Z4ilq0YsDEHJLQhBa6RrIjJIsckL2kE/edit?hl=en&authkey=CLCo8Z0J" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrB...uthkey=CLCo8Z0J</a>

nUfl0w

I just read on charlies scratch pad that he is also thinking about chambers and upgrades.
In general I really like the idea of tieing upgrades to the chambers (instead of hive), but i agree with you about the whip. On the design log charlie says something about an "infestation chamber". Didnt know that something like this was planned, but maybe this one is used to replace the whip as an upgrade chamber and making it the replacement of the former oc only.

Kurrine

Infestation chambers makes me think of an alternative source for a chain to link back to like a mini hive. Unlikely but it's just what came to mind.

SkymanderX

i agree with you. i think that upgrades should be in the hive aka maybe a mature hive? also whip is pretty useless.

twiliteblue

<!--quoteo(post=1879616:date=Oct 12 2011, 03:07 PM:name=SkymanderX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SkymanderX @ Oct 12 2011, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1879616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i agree with you. i think that upgrades should be in the hive aka maybe a mature hive? also whip is pretty useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whips are quite underpowered currently. They need more damage, more health, and provide a better team buff (Fury). After all, they are suppose to be the primary defense structures alongside Hydras.

I also find it quite ridiculous that one Marine can duel a Whip in melee range, and still win.

Topper

Whips are useless currently.
We were locked into a stalemate game last night, and alien res was ticking up over 300 constantly, so I placed about 20 whips all over the map, hidden around corners and behind boxes etc. Then watched for the next 20 mins as the marines just grenaded them all away.
End result was 1 Whip kill.

Heroman117

Just curious cause im not certain, is the whip's damage effected by alien melee upgrades?

IE: having Melee #3 would increase the Whip's damage by 30%

twiliteblue

<!--quoteo(post=1879650:date=Oct 12 2011, 09:14 PM:name=Heroman117)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heroman117 @ Oct 12 2011, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1879650"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just curious cause im not certain, is the whip's damage effected by alien melee upgrades?

IE: having Melee #3 would increase the Whip's damage by 30%<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AFAIK Whip damage is not affected by Melee upgrades (which only improves Bite, Swipe, and Gore).

You can try putting 10 Whips in one area, and cast Fury at the same time to achieve maximum Fury stacks (+100% damage, and +100% attack speed, I think) for laughs.

Asraniel

Ok, i think we all agree that whips are useless, not only because they are used for upgrades.

So lets change a little bit the topic and see how we could improve the whip.

my suggestions:

1) Remove upgrades from the whip and place them somewhere else
2) Let attack/defense upgrades affect the whip
3) Give it more HP. Currently it can be killed by a pistol very very quickly
4) Let mature whips do something with grenades. kick them away, throw them back, add a forcefield... something to protect them better against grenades and make them usefull mid/lategame

Mkilbride

Have whips go all tentacle and grab people.

gorge.ous

My suggestion: Have whips be hidden in the infestation (maybe a little indicator on the ground so you can spot them if you look carefully, which you often cant ;)) and only come out when an enemy is in range.