<!--quoteo(post=1879892:date=Oct 14 2011, 03:07 PM:name=Cygone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cygone @ Oct 14 2011, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1879892"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Touching on this, if 1 hive can have 10 eggs, why cant 2 hives have 5 eggs each, aliens still get to pick where they spawn, but dont have countless eggs in any one location.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually this wouldnt work anyway, assuming that aliens will be able to teleport between hives like NS1
I think a lot of ideas in this thread are overly complicated. The simple way to fix this is to find the ideal spawn time for aliens and then work the number of eggs around that time. For testing they could temporarily disable eggs and just have the aliens instantly spawn at the hive. Then when they find the ideal spawn rate they can try and work that into the egg concept.
A 4 second death timer still seems very fast to me. Maybe having 2 skulks spawn every 7 seconds would work, but then the next 2 skulks would be in a cue and need to wait longer. I don't think there's any way to really know without testing it. Obviously it will need to be able to scale with player count, just as you can build multiple IPs as marines.
As far as fades are concerned I don't like limiting blink even more. IMO the marines should be able to damage fades while they are blinking, I don't understand why they are invincible during blink.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
the idea of blink was: instant teleportation to any location you want to go. since that did not work out in ns1, and now also does not work out in ns2, they introduced the ethereal mode which allows you more control over your blinks. that's why you are invincible. being vulnerable during blink makes not really sense, since it is supposed to be instant, but instant was not very user friendly, too difficult to handle :(
about that 4 seconds: that's just a random number. you cannot say it's still too less and in the same post write that you can only know by testing :D it is more than it is currently on standard 187 server, that fact itself makes 4 seconds a good number. if you increase this number too much, eggs will lose some of their importance. marines can start to ignore them when sieging a hive
I think from a gameplay standpoint having the fade be invincible during blink just doesn't work very well. I think it would be much more interesting if fades had more freedom with blink but were still able to be damaged.
I said 4 seconds seems very fast. You're right I can't know for sure until I have actually played with it. I'm just thinking that the entire alien team spawning every 4 seconds would still be very difficult for marines. Even if marines have IPs for every player on the team they can't spawn that quickly.
I don't think the answer is changing the spawn timer. I still think key problem is skulk to marine combat...skulks win to often.
i want skulks to keep coming wave after wave. it's entertaining. as marines we get showered with health and ammo...they do not have this mechanism on the alien side.
<!--quoteo(post=1879902:date=Oct 14 2011, 08:04 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 14 2011, 08:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1879902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think from a gameplay standpoint having the fade be invincible during blink just doesn't work very well. I think it would be much more interesting if fades had more freedom with blink but were still able to be damaged.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So.. you just want the Current NS1 blink back..?
It never made much sense how it worked really, did they fly? was it some short levitation? at least early NS1 and NS2's blink as a teleportation was.. a teleportation, it's easier to understand what is happening and a bit less silly overall. late NS1 blink never made much sense looking at it, but from a gameplay perspective I'll agree it was more fair.
So I guess my feelings are: flying blink looks stupid but was fair, teleporting blink is.. questionable gameplay-wise and solid lore-wise.
Most will champion gameplay first of course, but I'm not so sure I want to dismiss the feel of the universe to cartoonish flying fades either.
Edit: man this is off-topic I'm sorry, back on track: My feeling on alien spawn is they need a 5 to 10 second wait between death and spawning. Egg numbers would follow to make them still a significant loss when destroyed.
That or as someone has suggested before, they should be forced into wave spawning to create the pause, though this route would likely require some balance reworkings in addition. Not that this game isn't going to go through a major rebalacing stage later anyways.
I agree with Wilson. Aliens dominate whole game after having 2 hives. There are almost 10 to 20 eggs when having 2 hives. And it makes aliens so easy to rush toward to marines. I'm so happy that Wilson said that Aliens have less punishment when dying. It's completely true and what i always wanted to say.
NS1, which is still much balanced than NS2, no one had thrown their lifeform away. Because the responsibility of being killed as lerk or fade was huge. But now? Even fade does that because they can earn enough resources only having 2 resource towers and most importantly, instant respawn.
Comments
Actually this wouldnt work anyway, assuming that aliens will be able to teleport between hives like NS1
A 4 second death timer still seems very fast to me. Maybe having 2 skulks spawn every 7 seconds would work, but then the next 2 skulks would be in a cue and need to wait longer. I don't think there's any way to really know without testing it. Obviously it will need to be able to scale with player count, just as you can build multiple IPs as marines.
As far as fades are concerned I don't like limiting blink even more. IMO the marines should be able to damage fades while they are blinking, I don't understand why they are invincible during blink.
about that 4 seconds: that's just a random number. you cannot say it's still too less and in the same post write that you can only know by testing :D it is more than it is currently on standard 187 server, that fact itself makes 4 seconds a good number. if you increase this number too much, eggs will lose some of their importance. marines can start to ignore them when sieging a hive
I said 4 seconds seems very fast. You're right I can't know for sure until I have actually played with it. I'm just thinking that the entire alien team spawning every 4 seconds would still be very difficult for marines. Even if marines have IPs for every player on the team they can't spawn that quickly.
I still think key problem is skulk to marine combat...skulks win to often.
i want skulks to keep coming wave after wave.
it's entertaining.
as marines we get showered with health and ammo...they do not have this mechanism on the alien side.
So.. you just want the Current NS1 blink back..?
It never made much sense how it worked really, did they fly? was it some short levitation? at least early NS1 and NS2's blink as a teleportation was.. a teleportation, it's easier to understand what is happening and a bit less silly overall.
late NS1 blink never made much sense looking at it, but from a gameplay perspective I'll agree it was more fair.
So I guess my feelings are: flying blink looks stupid but was fair, teleporting blink is.. questionable gameplay-wise and solid lore-wise.
Most will champion gameplay first of course, but I'm not so sure I want to dismiss the feel of the universe to cartoonish flying fades either.
Edit: man this is off-topic I'm sorry, back on track: My feeling on alien spawn is they need a 5 to 10 second wait between death and spawning. Egg numbers would follow to make them still a significant loss when destroyed.
That or as someone has suggested before, they should be forced into wave spawning to create the pause, though this route would likely require some balance reworkings in addition. Not that this game isn't going to go through a major rebalacing stage later anyways.
edit: Spelling! Also this blink discussion should probably be put in it's own thread.
NS1, which is still much balanced than NS2, no one had thrown their lifeform away. Because the responsibility of being killed as lerk or fade was huge. But now? Even fade does that because they can earn enough resources only having 2 resource towers and most importantly, instant respawn.