SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?kdivvvx3nw71joj" target="_blank">Balance Mod 1.9</a>
- fixed bug with flamethrower option not working correctly (negative energy effect was not working when the option was turned off, sry for that!) - made the changes to swipe have their own option (disabled by default) - improved the healspray structure utility tooltips and fixed a bug were score was not added properly
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
edited October 2011
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?nepp72p8vncelf6" target="_blank">Balance Mod 2.0</a>
- IPs will move respawning player's view to its position - added respawn timer to aliens, after that timer expires you are allowed to respawn (default 4 seconds)
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?3s5vkr55zkisi12" target="_blank">Balance Mod 2.1</a>
- further reduced grenade splash damage but increased detonation timer (to allow shooting farther) - changed structure healspray effect so you only get 1 effect at once (overhealing multiple cysts will not work anymore) - added whip heal effect: you will be able to collect up to 5 bilebombs. (bilebomb as an upgrade has been removed) - bilebomb damage has been doubled with kEnableOverHeal = true - added crag heal effect: the crag will give you a protective shield which absorbs the next 120 damage. - harvester heal: will add 1 p.res and 1.tres
This is an awesome idea, hopefully we can get this running on inversion and start switching features on and off to test balance.
I think this is a very interesting way to balance, feature by feature, rather than waiting for entire builds that make big shifts, we can toggle on and off what we want.
The community needs to participate in the creation/adjustment/acceptance of balance changes.
I'm afraid if the devs have full control over balance changes... there is going to be a lot of feedback that gets filtered out that should be heard. Let the players balance the game.
Also, is there a way that the mod features that are enabled could be displayed to a user who submits a command in console, such as.
om_balanceinfo
Which would display which features are enabled? Better yet, when a user joins the server there could be text overlay that is displayed in the RR, before joining a team that could outline:
"Balance mod enabled, type om_balanceinfo in console to see what is enabled."
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
edited October 2011
i was thinking about that and i'm planning on adding it
edit: oh, and i don't fully agree on letting the community balance the game. enabling, disabling options is one thing, but exposing all numbers, so each server admin can change them as they want will create confusion :) on one server the rifle deals 12 damage, on another 22. you can never now :D so ill stick with the options.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
I try some settings on HBZ1 and following seem to be a good choice:
kLoadGMOvrMind = true
// enables group rewards for killing structures / players, decreases personal resource income from RTs and reduces RT build time kChangeResModel = false
// prevents AI units (macs, arcs, drifters, whips) from stacking in each other. that could lead to slightly increased cpu usage on server kEnableAntiAIStacking = true
// ------------------------- alien options:
// aliens will be able to respawn after following amount of seconds have passed (set to 0 to disable, default is 4) kMinimumAlienQueueTime = 4
// triggers structure specific effects when they are healed a certain amount // hive: produces an additional egg // cyst: gives the gorge the option to place a mini cyst for free (mini cyst for p.res has been disabled) // crag: the crag will give you a protective shield which absorbs the next 120 damage. // whip: you will be able to collect up to 5 bilebombs. (bilebomb as an upgrade has been removed) kEnableOverHeal = false
// reduce melee upgrade cost by 33%, research time by 50% and effectiveness: 3%, 6%, 9% (instead of 10%, 20%, 30%) kChangeMeleeUpgrades = false
// further increases initial blink cost and prevents blinking for 1 seconds after you left blink mode (instead of when you enter it) kChangeFade = false
// reduces swipe damage, but increases ROF (makes medpacks possible, since you would need 2 or more attacks) kChangeSwipe = true
// reduces spike damage from distance but increases slightly in melee range, also type changed to puncture (33% less against structures) kChangeLerk = true
// increase armor back to 10, skulk bite ROF to 0.5 (was 0.45), dps / eps adjusted (you deal same damage, use same energy over time) kChangeSkulk = false
// only 1 hive is allowed being build at once, drifter cost reduced to 20, cyst to 15, hive max energy reduced to 100 and initial to 90 kChangeHive = false
// makes whip move 3 times faster on infestation, increase HP / AP and enables bombard kChangeWhip = true
// maximum of structures of the same kind allowed to build in an area kGorgeBuildingLimit = 10
// changes frenzy to heal 35% of max life, but over time instead of instantly kChangeFrenzy = true
// increases health by 20% and reduces energy costs of all abilities by 20% kEnableThreeHiveBonus = true
// ------------------------- marine options:
// increases advanced armory health kChangeAdvancedArmory = true
// reduces build time and costs of arms lab kChangeArmsLab = false
kChangeTechBuildings = false
// makes the shotgun little bit stronger at mid range, and little bit weaker at low range, prevents two shotting fades but is more useful in general kChangeShotgun = true
// reduces the melee damage of the rifle, so it's main purpose is to knockback skulks, not to kill them kChangeRifle = true
// removes energy cripple effect, fixes burn duration to 5 seconds, enables burning surfaces and heat up damage increase (initial damage is lower) // burning infestation will now damage the cyst kChangeFlamethrower = false
// reduces the explosion range and detonation time of grenade launcher kChangeGrenadeLauncher = true
// reduce ARC build time by 50% kChangeARCs = false
// reduces build time and costs of robotics factory by 50% kChangeRoboticsFactory = false
// set to false to disable or enter maximum amount of allowed macs kLimitMacs = 6
// increases marines base armor by 10 and each upgrade by 5 kChangeMarineArmor = false
// requires the sentry to be build close to a robotics factory kChangeSentry = false
// sentry limit mod by twiliteblue kSentryBuildRadius = 40 // standard 20, good value for summit is 40 kMaxSentryInArea = 4
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I like most of the changes, but the gorge healspray bonuses? Those seem totally out of place and wrong.
As for bombard, I have some ideas: Currently, bombard is pretty useless. You have to have straight line of sight to hit anything. What if the balls were instead small AI units that use the pathing mesh? You put some distance limit on it, but now the whip can hit things around a corner, actually making it useful. You select a target, and it routes the projectiles to the target from pathing. Now the whip can actually compete with the ARC, though you still need to have infestation close enough to what you're trying to hit, whereas the ARC doesn't have that limitation.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1880310:date=Oct 17 2011, 08:20 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Oct 17 2011, 08:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for bombard, I have some ideas: Currently, bombard is pretty useless. You have to have straight line of sight to hit anything. What if the balls were instead small AI units that use the pathing mesh? You put some distance limit on it, but now the whip can hit things around a corner, actually making it useful. You select a target, and it routes the projectiles to the target from pathing. Now the whip can actually compete with the ARC, though you still need to have infestation close enough to what you're trying to hit, whereas the ARC doesn't have that limitation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Either that, or Bombard could hurt Marines as well. Also, I find having to wait 3 seconds, and then manually re-cast Bombard after each cast to be quite annoying for its worth.
I can't say I like the new heal spray mechanisms either. While it gives the Gorge something to do, those are quite boring tasks.
What I'd like to see is Cysts start with low health, but can be upgraded by the commander (from each Cyst's own menu) or the Gorge (with heal spray).
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
it's not possible to change menues (that would require modifications client side), and about the gorge: Did you even try it out? I don't like it when people judge something without even trying it. it's ok when you come and say "hey, i tried that gorge change, but it did not make the gorge fun to play because of bla etc."
about cysts in general: there was an idea about hardening cysts. meaning: the longer they live, the more health / armor they can have. the first cyst placed in the game would be then the strongest. but im not sure if that will work. cysts / infestation are designed to get wiped out pretty easy. the only problem is that the creation / spread of it is not as easy. that was the reason of the cyst healspray, so the only resource you invest to spread infestation is time (of the gorge, or hive energy)
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Oops I forgot about this being a server mod. Then how about Cysts spawn with low health, but have higher maximum health (~1200) and can to be healed to speed up the "maturing" process? Cysts have innate regen, and will eventually fill their health. The Gorge's role will be to heal newly placed Cysts to make them tougher faster.
First off, thanks for implementing the bm_info command. =)
So we've been tweaking your balance mod a lot the past few days. The game is feeling more balanced than a simple majority alien victory. However, with that balance we still seem to be encountering the stalemate situations.
I understand that the biggest reason for this is the lack of tier 3 units and abilities, so could we implement a 4 tech point advantage for marines and aliens?
This isn't mean't to be a feature that is kept within the game for a while, just til UWE can implement the end-game features. This way we can enjoy new, fresh games more often. Rather than having 2 hour games where marines have MS, and aliens have all tech points but still can't end the game or vice versa. I feel that a 4v1 techpoint game should be a win for whoever has 4. This way 3v2 techpoint games are really the breaking point. Considering you have the 3 hive bonus, this is great because it means a 2v2 techpoint games have purpose and the fight is now for that 3rd techpoint. Once that is obtained.. the team has incentive to get the last point, which would practically end the game. Its really hard to test, end game, without end-game mechanics. And rather than spending a lot of time testing mid-game like we should... we're stuck in a "not mid but not end game" situation for a long time within most of the games. Let the game end at that point, start a new one, and test the part of the game we're supposed to be testing... early-mid.
This is why I suggest we create an optional small marine bonus for having 3 (built) techpoints, and a large bonus for both aliens and marines if they have 4(built) techpoints. Something that lends towards ending the game, like a large % damage bonus. =D
Something we noticed too, for the turrets needing to be within range of the robo, you can drop a robo, not build it, drop turrets, and then recycle the robo to avoid that restriction. Another thing we noticed is that since there is a robo required next to each turret setup... you practically always give the marine comm easy and fast access to a mac to repair those turrets. Which, indirectly makes it easier for marine comms to turtle. I'm pretty sure we'll be nerfing the turret health even more to combat that, along with the damage a bit. This way a few bile bombs can take out these turrets, just like gls do to hydras.
<!--quoteo(post=1880131:date=Oct 16 2011, 06:44 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Oct 16 2011, 06:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh, and i don't fully agree on letting the community balance the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is it you are doing again? ;)
But I agree, I believe balancing should most efficiently be in the hands of the players who understand the game the most.
I really don't like this mod. It's currently running on HBZ and basically nerfs a lot of stuff to make it almost useless. Lerks are horrible and have a hard time killing any marines. GLs range is crap so you need to stand within the range of hydras in order to destroy them. Really frustrating playing on servers with lots of values changed from vanilla, but there's not much choice when there are so few.
<!--quoteo(post=1880698:date=Oct 19 2011, 02:14 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 19 2011, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't like this mod. It's currently running on HBZ and basically nerfs a lot of stuff to make it almost useless. Lerks are horrible and have a hard time killing any marines. GLs range is crap so you need to stand within the range of hydras in order to destroy them. Really frustrating playing on servers with lots of values changed from vanilla, but there's not much choice when there are so few.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. I'm pretty sure it isn't visionz making these balance calls, they seem too off.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
I tweak the Lerk an grenade settings on HBZ1. Grenade range is on original value, but splash radius still reduced. Lerk is something between Schimmels Version and original now, wich is fine i think.
Game is really more Balanced now. Good work Schimmel.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1880727:date=Oct 19 2011, 12:54 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Oct 19 2011, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I tweak the Lerk an grenade settings on HBZ1. Grenade range is on original value, but splash radius still reduced. Lerk is something between Schimmels Version and original now, wich is fine i think.
Game is really more Balanced now. Good work Schimmel.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
edited December 2011
i decided to relaunch the mod (since most of the old code isn't compatible anymore or not relevant)
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?7tsl1j5vw0798o4" target="_blank">Balance Mod 2.4</a>
#fixes:
- fixed bug where killing a hive would not cause nearby structures to starve
#changes:
- added increased energy regeneration for alien players who are on infestation - marines take 20% more damage when they are on infestation - increased hydra hitbox
edit: forgot to mention: you can adjust those values as usual through <i>Settings.lua</i>
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
I really do love the fixes, etc, included in balance mod. They have fixed a sometimes horribly broken game and allowed us to continue playing.
I dislike the actual balance changes though, we should be playing the official game, not some random balance modifications. I haven't played much this patch, but I actually prefered playing on non-balance mod servers for the last two patches. Sometimes the changes seem designed for public play, sometimes for organised matches. The outcome ends up different, but not necessarily better. There isn't a big pool for collecting statistics with anyway (what 3-4 servers, a tiny community) I cannot see how fragmenting this even more is going to benefit feedback and stat collecting on the subject of balance. It is already community fragmented between the organised and public community, there is no choice with that but we have a choice with the rest.
Another issue is choice, there is none. For example HBZ #1 uses balance mod, this forces me (and pretty much the entire EU community) to play with balance mod. I have no reasonable option to pick another server.
I am not trying to be ungrateful, the fixes you have supplied have been the only reason we could actually have a decent game sometimes. It's just that I do not believe the balance changes help, overall.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
That comes across as more negative than I intended, sorry Schimmel. I guess what I mean is, I don't see how it is benefitting anyone.
Balance changes should be made officially or not, we don't have a big enough community to fragment them. Its difficult to even 'test' balance really, with the current client performance. Unless I am missing some carefully setup scheme by UWE to test balance?
If you look at 188/189 change logs, you will see the incorporated some balance ideas from this mod
Eg, the balance mod was testing whether or not increased swipe speed (and lower dmg) would work for fades balance, and then it was incorporated into build 188 build 189 with the removal of melee ugprades, i think its a big step in making fades a lot less abusive with the fade in fade out ability, (4 hits now vs level 3 armor?)
I think its a good idea. In between the build releases we get to contribute towards finding a better 'balance' in the values.
Sometimes the new balanced figures are not helping but then it also doesn't take much to change the values either...
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
Thanks ogz. It still seems a bit odd to me, that what could well be the vast majority of games are played on servers running altered stats. With such a tiny community surely it is difficult getting meaningful balance figures without fragmenting the community? Either way, if its being used as part of the development process fine, but it doesn't make much sense to me!
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
In Battlefield3 for example. You can choose your serveroptions in whatever way you like (minimap on/off, hardcore mode, cross hair on/off, etc). So this is a finished game and you can play on"different" servers.
If i think a build isnt balanced enough, i try everything to solve that. It isnt really fun if you play 3 weeks a game that is to unbalanced. Sure, you play not the "official" version, but who cares.
Another sideeffect is, that i can help schimmel to implement and test new features and values, wich help the community and speed up the development process.
These Changes run on HBZ1 right now: Armor Evolvebug fix Turret damage halfed balancemod without 1 Hive fade
Its really strange, in competitive ways also, that some people say: "we must play with original values" even if the game is totally imba.
endarJoin Date: 2010-07-27Member: 73256Members, Squad Five Blue
Is that all the you run? What about turret limits, or do you find halving the damage does enough to curb their use. Do you think its too much? Do they still get used?
Comments
- fixed bug with flamethrower option not working correctly (negative energy effect was not working when the option was turned off, sry for that!)
- made the changes to swipe have their own option (disabled by default)
- improved the healspray structure utility tooltips and fixed a bug were score was not added properly
- IPs will move respawning player's view to its position
- added respawn timer to aliens, after that timer expires you are allowed to respawn (default 4 seconds)
....
I think I'm in love...
=P
....
I think I'm in love...
=P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hope you mean the mod and not me :)
i made a small addition which i made today:
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?3s5vkr55zkisi12" target="_blank">Balance Mod 2.1</a>
- further reduced grenade splash damage but increased detonation timer (to allow shooting farther)
- changed structure healspray effect so you only get 1 effect at once (overhealing multiple cysts will not work anymore)
- added whip heal effect: you will be able to collect up to 5 bilebombs. (bilebomb as an upgrade has been removed)
- bilebomb damage has been doubled with kEnableOverHeal = true
- added crag heal effect: the crag will give you a protective shield which absorbs the next 120 damage.
- harvester heal: will add 1 p.res and 1.tres
=P
This is an awesome idea, hopefully we can get this running on inversion and start switching features on and off to test balance.
I think this is a very interesting way to balance, feature by feature, rather than waiting for entire builds that make big shifts, we can toggle on and off what we want.
The community needs to participate in the creation/adjustment/acceptance of balance changes.
I'm afraid if the devs have full control over balance changes... there is going to be a lot of feedback that gets filtered out that should be heard. Let the players balance the game.
Also, is there a way that the mod features that are enabled could be displayed to a user who submits a command in console, such as.
om_balanceinfo
Which would display which features are enabled? Better yet, when a user joins the server there could be text overlay that is displayed in the RR, before joining a team that could outline:
"Balance mod enabled, type om_balanceinfo in console to see what is enabled."
edit: oh, and i don't fully agree on letting the community balance the game. enabling, disabling options is one thing, but exposing all numbers, so each server admin can change them as they want will create confusion :) on one server the rifle deals 12 damage, on another 22. you can never now :D so ill stick with the options.
- fixed bug were third hive bonus was not applied correctly (after evolving you did not get the max health bonus)
- "bm_info" console command will show all options and their values
kLoadGMOvrMind = true
// enables group rewards for killing structures / players, decreases personal resource income from RTs and reduces RT build time
kChangeResModel = false
// prevents AI units (macs, arcs, drifters, whips) from stacking in each other. that could lead to slightly increased cpu usage on server
kEnableAntiAIStacking = true
// ------------------------- alien options:
// aliens will be able to respawn after following amount of seconds have passed (set to 0 to disable, default is 4)
kMinimumAlienQueueTime = 4
// triggers structure specific effects when they are healed a certain amount
// hive: produces an additional egg
// cyst: gives the gorge the option to place a mini cyst for free (mini cyst for p.res has been disabled)
// crag: the crag will give you a protective shield which absorbs the next 120 damage.
// whip: you will be able to collect up to 5 bilebombs. (bilebomb as an upgrade has been removed)
kEnableOverHeal = false
// reduce melee upgrade cost by 33%, research time by 50% and effectiveness: 3%, 6%, 9% (instead of 10%, 20%, 30%)
kChangeMeleeUpgrades = false
// further increases initial blink cost and prevents blinking for 1 seconds after you left blink mode (instead of when you enter it)
kChangeFade = false
// reduces swipe damage, but increases ROF (makes medpacks possible, since you would need 2 or more attacks)
kChangeSwipe = true
// reduces spike damage from distance but increases slightly in melee range, also type changed to puncture (33% less against structures)
kChangeLerk = true
// increase armor back to 10, skulk bite ROF to 0.5 (was 0.45), dps / eps adjusted (you deal same damage, use same energy over time)
kChangeSkulk = false
// only 1 hive is allowed being build at once, drifter cost reduced to 20, cyst to 15, hive max energy reduced to 100 and initial to 90
kChangeHive = false
// makes whip move 3 times faster on infestation, increase HP / AP and enables bombard
kChangeWhip = true
// maximum of structures of the same kind allowed to build in an area
kGorgeBuildingLimit = 10
// changes frenzy to heal 35% of max life, but over time instead of instantly
kChangeFrenzy = true
// increases health by 20% and reduces energy costs of all abilities by 20%
kEnableThreeHiveBonus = true
// ------------------------- marine options:
// increases advanced armory health
kChangeAdvancedArmory = true
// reduces build time and costs of arms lab
kChangeArmsLab = false
kChangeTechBuildings = false
// makes the shotgun little bit stronger at mid range, and little bit weaker at low range, prevents two shotting fades but is more useful in general
kChangeShotgun = true
// prevents cancelation of rifle reload (and GL reload)
kPreventReloadCancel = true
// reduces the melee damage of the rifle, so it's main purpose is to knockback skulks, not to kill them
kChangeRifle = true
// removes energy cripple effect, fixes burn duration to 5 seconds, enables burning surfaces and heat up damage increase (initial damage is lower)
// burning infestation will now damage the cyst
kChangeFlamethrower = false
// reduces the explosion range and detonation time of grenade launcher
kChangeGrenadeLauncher = true
// reduce ARC build time by 50%
kChangeARCs = false
// reduces build time and costs of robotics factory by 50%
kChangeRoboticsFactory = false
// set to false to disable or enter maximum amount of allowed macs
kLimitMacs = 6
// increases marines base armor by 10 and each upgrade by 5
kChangeMarineArmor = false
// requires the sentry to be build close to a robotics factory
kChangeSentry = false
// sentry limit mod by twiliteblue
kSentryBuildRadius = 40 // standard 20, good value for summit is 40
kMaxSentryInArea = 4
As for bombard, I have some ideas:
Currently, bombard is pretty useless. You have to have straight line of sight to hit anything. What if the balls were instead small AI units that use the pathing mesh? You put some distance limit on it, but now the whip can hit things around a corner, actually making it useful. You select a target, and it routes the projectiles to the target from pathing. Now the whip can actually compete with the ARC, though you still need to have infestation close enough to what you're trying to hit, whereas the ARC doesn't have that limitation.
Currently, bombard is pretty useless. You have to have straight line of sight to hit anything. What if the balls were instead small AI units that use the pathing mesh? You put some distance limit on it, but now the whip can hit things around a corner, actually making it useful. You select a target, and it routes the projectiles to the target from pathing. Now the whip can actually compete with the ARC, though you still need to have infestation close enough to what you're trying to hit, whereas the ARC doesn't have that limitation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Either that, or Bombard could hurt Marines as well. Also, I find having to wait 3 seconds, and then manually re-cast Bombard after each cast to be quite annoying for its worth.
I can't say I like the new heal spray mechanisms either. While it gives the Gorge something to do, those are quite boring tasks.
What I'd like to see is Cysts start with low health, but can be upgraded by the commander (from each Cyst's own menu) or the Gorge (with heal spray).
about cysts in general: there was an idea about hardening cysts. meaning: the longer they live, the more health / armor they can have. the first cyst placed in the game would be then the strongest. but im not sure if that will work. cysts / infestation are designed to get wiped out pretty easy. the only problem is that the creation / spread of it is not as easy. that was the reason of the cyst healspray, so the only resource you invest to spread infestation is time (of the gorge, or hive energy)
So we've been tweaking your balance mod a lot the past few days. The game is feeling more balanced than a simple majority alien victory. However, with that balance we still seem to be encountering the stalemate situations.
I understand that the biggest reason for this is the lack of tier 3 units and abilities, so could we implement a 4 tech point advantage for marines and aliens?
This isn't mean't to be a feature that is kept within the game for a while, just til UWE can implement the end-game features. This way we can enjoy new, fresh games more often. Rather than having 2 hour games where marines have MS, and aliens have all tech points but still can't end the game or vice versa. I feel that a 4v1 techpoint game should be a win for whoever has 4. This way 3v2 techpoint games are really the breaking point. Considering you have the 3 hive bonus, this is great because it means a 2v2 techpoint games have purpose and the fight is now for that 3rd techpoint. Once that is obtained.. the team has incentive to get the last point, which would practically end the game. Its really hard to test, end game, without end-game mechanics. And rather than spending a lot of time testing mid-game like we should... we're stuck in a "not mid but not end game" situation for a long time within most of the games. Let the game end at that point, start a new one, and test the part of the game we're supposed to be testing... early-mid.
This is why I suggest we create an optional small marine bonus for having 3 (built) techpoints, and a large bonus for both aliens and marines if they have 4(built) techpoints. Something that lends towards ending the game, like a large % damage bonus. =D
Something we noticed too, for the turrets needing to be within range of the robo, you can drop a robo, not build it, drop turrets, and then recycle the robo to avoid that restriction. Another thing we noticed is that since there is a robo required next to each turret setup... you practically always give the marine comm easy and fast access to a mac to repair those turrets. Which, indirectly makes it easier for marine comms to turtle. I'm pretty sure we'll be nerfing the turret health even more to combat that, along with the damage a bit. This way a few bile bombs can take out these turrets, just like gls do to hydras.
What is it you are doing again? ;)
But I agree, I believe balancing should most efficiently be in the hands of the players who understand the game the most.
Agreed.
I'm pretty sure it isn't visionz making these balance calls, they seem too off.
Lerk is something between Schimmels Version and original now, wich is fine i think.
Game is really more Balanced now. Good work Schimmel.
HBZ1
kSpikesAltDamage = 70
kSpikeMaxDamage = 21
kSpikeMinDamage = 14
kSpikeMinDamageRange = 14
kSpikeMaxDamageRange = 2
kSpikeDamageType = kDamageType.Puncture
Original
kSpikesAltDamage = 90
kSpikeMaxDamage = 24
kSpikeMinDamage = 20
kSpikeMinDamageRange = 16
kSpikeMaxDamageRange = 2
kSpikeDamageType = kDamageType.Light
Lerk is something between Schimmels Version and original now, wich is fine i think.
Game is really more Balanced now. Good work Schimmel.
HBZ1
kSpikesAltDamage = 70
kSpikeMaxDamage = 21
kSpikeMinDamage = 14
kSpikeMinDamageRange = 14
kSpikeMaxDamageRange = 2
kSpikeDamageType = kDamageType.Puncture
Original
kSpikesAltDamage = 90
kSpikeMaxDamage = 24
kSpikeMinDamage = 20
kSpikeMinDamageRange = 16
kSpikeMaxDamageRange = 2
kSpikeDamageType = kDamageType.Light<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think kSpikesAltDamage is ever used. If you look in Spikes.lua, Spike's alt fire shoots 5 spikes identical to primary fire mode.
Keep in mind that Puncture damage type deals more damage to structure armor than Light. So the damage would have to be lowered as well.
kSpikesAltDamage = 70
kSpikeMaxDamage = 19
kSpikeMinDamage = 15
kSpikeMinDamageRange = 14
kSpikeMaxDamageRange = 2
kSpikeDamageType = kDamageType.Puncture
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?7tsl1j5vw0798o4" target="_blank">Balance Mod 2.4</a>
#fixes:
- fixed bug where killing a hive would not cause nearby structures to starve
#changes:
- added increased energy regeneration for alien players who are on infestation
- marines take 20% more damage when they are on infestation
- increased hydra hitbox
edit: forgot to mention: you can adjust those values as usual through <i>Settings.lua</i>
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?o8gaky31ssvst18" target="_blank">Balance Mod 2.5</a>
<i>- improve server performance a bit
- increased hydra hitbox
#fixes:
- fixed bug where killing a hive would not cause nearby structures to starve
#changes:
- added increased energy regeneration for alien players who are on infestation
- marines take more damage when they are on infestation (default 10%)
- alien take less damage when they are on infestation (default -30%)
- added marine spawn protection (activates nano shield on respawn, default enabled)
- added option for marines to spawn one MAC at round start</i>
- added option for marines to spawn one MAC at round start
like these new editions
- added increased energy regeneration for alien players who are on infestation
- marines take more damage when they are on infestation (default 10%)
- alien take less damage when they are on infestation (default -30%)
this explains why 'cyst spam' is so much more powerful in HBZ lol
I dislike the actual balance changes though, we should be playing the official game, not some random balance modifications. I haven't played much this patch, but I actually prefered playing on non-balance mod servers for the last two patches. Sometimes the changes seem designed for public play, sometimes for organised matches. The outcome ends up different, but not necessarily better. There isn't a big pool for collecting statistics with anyway (what 3-4 servers, a tiny community) I cannot see how fragmenting this even more is going to benefit feedback and stat collecting on the subject of balance. It is already community fragmented between the organised and public community, there is no choice with that but we have a choice with the rest.
Another issue is choice, there is none. For example HBZ #1 uses balance mod, this forces me (and pretty much the entire EU community) to play with balance mod. I have no reasonable option to pick another server.
I am not trying to be ungrateful, the fixes you have supplied have been the only reason we could actually have a decent game sometimes. It's just that I do not believe the balance changes help, overall.
Balance changes should be made officially or not, we don't have a big enough community to fragment them. Its difficult to even 'test' balance really, with the current client performance. Unless I am missing some carefully setup scheme by UWE to test balance?
Eg, the balance mod was testing whether or not increased swipe speed (and lower dmg) would work for fades balance, and then it was incorporated into build 188
build 189 with the removal of melee ugprades, i think its a big step in making fades a lot less abusive with the fade in fade out ability, (4 hits now vs level 3 armor?)
I think its a good idea. In between the build releases we get to contribute towards finding a better 'balance' in the values.
Sometimes the new balanced figures are not helping but then it also doesn't take much to change the values either...
If i think a build isnt balanced enough, i try everything to solve that.
It isnt really fun if you play 3 weeks a game that is to unbalanced. Sure, you play not the "official" version, but who cares.
Another sideeffect is, that i can help schimmel to implement and test new features and values, wich help the community and speed up the development process.
These Changes run on HBZ1 right now:
Armor Evolvebug fix
Turret damage halfed
balancemod without 1 Hive fade
Its really strange, in competitive ways also, that some people say: "we must play with original values" even if the game is totally imba.