Build limit per power node/infestation patch
Jow
Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106032Members
Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106032Members
Just to counter the amount of turret/hydra spam there is, have some kind of power limit on each power node which is big enough to support the buildings +1/2 sentries but not a huge amount.
Then just maybe one hydra per cyst, because of 'nutrient limits' or something like that.
Then just maybe one hydra per cyst, because of 'nutrient limits' or something like that.
Comments
However, for this to work, aliens would need the ability to recycle (devolve?) structures.
That out of the way, as much as I love the concept of unlimited everything, spam just cant be helped, at least in pubs. So I guess this or the per tech node is likely in order, sadly.
-What about marine start ? Usually marines have a lot of structures there, even if you don't count sentry guns. Do you mean that marines will have to build powerpacks in their main base to develop their technology ?
- If the issue you want to solve here is hydra/sentry spam. It might work for sentries, but for hydras I am not so sure. As Gorges can spit cysts, they will just need to place one cyst every X hydras. In the end you just raised the cost of hydras. On the other hand the marines will have to spawn more powerpacks adding even more structures in places which are already quite crowded.
-What about marine start ? Usually marines have a lot of structures there, even if you don't count sentry guns. Do you mean that marines will have to build powerpacks in their main base to develop their technology ?
- If the issue you want to solve here is hydra/sentry spam. It might work for sentries, but for hydras I am not so sure. As Gorges can spit cysts, they will just need to place one cyst every X hydras. In the end you just raised the cost of hydras. On the other hand the marines will have to spawn more powerpacks adding even more structures in places which are already quite crowded.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh please yes. One of the biggest problem with pub games that I've been in is when the main base is being pressured, the commander won't chuck down a power pack. I've lost a fair few games where the power has gone out in Marine Start, despite us being ahead. I do like the supply (power would be a better name) idea, would this make power nodes also contribute towards marine supply? I'd love that, as it would make destroying power nodes a more tactical decision, definitely give the map control aspect more importance.
I think an increase to the cost of hydras that would hit more late-game would be excellent. You tend to have a lot of resources late-game anyway however.
-What about marine start ? Usually marines have a lot of structures there, even if you don't count sentry guns. Do you mean that marines will have to build powerpacks in their main base to develop their technology ?
- If the issue you want to solve here is hydra/sentry spam. It might work for sentries, but for hydras I am not so sure. As Gorges can spit cysts, they will just need to place one cyst every X hydras. In the end you just raised the cost of hydras. On the other hand the marines will have to spawn more powerpacks adding even more structures in places which are already quite crowded.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a think about this, the easiest way I can see for marines i to just add extra capacity to the main powernode or more power when a CC is put down.
For aliens the easier solution is to just not allow cysts to be placed on another cysts infestation patch, which kinda makes sense anyway.
If the team I was on couldn't even take MS with 6 turrets, what chance would they stand trying to take down heliport with 11?
I had a large statement as to why this is so wrong but basically it boils down to turrets being able to shoot all the way across a room... at any given time in some rooms an alien can have 4~10 turrets shooting at it...... hydras dont compare to this kind of defense because:
1) Marines can shoot grenades around corners, thereby making all hydras useless (not to mention whips)
2) Marines aren't melee.. there's no reason for a marine to get in range of a hydra ever, all they need to do is defend an ARC, which becomes very easy once flamethrowers are researched as aliens can barely get kills when starved of energy
even if Onos was implemented, if there's a gun that defeats the Onos then what do aliens recieve to defeat that gun?
No matter what marines will win late game, just like NS1...... so what's the point of being on alien if you didn't win the rush? You will slowly just get ranged to death.... and depending on the comm it could be very slowly :P
That's the key though, hydras can't kill especially well, but they delay enemies, and because of how they're placed and how they grow, they're found all over the map thus can delay more effectively.
On the flip side, sentry guns are lethal killing machines against most aliens due to adrenaline restrictions and simple rate of fire and range, its a thousand times harder to take on a room full of well placed sentries with a skulk than it is for a marine to take on a room full of well placed hydras. Hydras role right now in stalemates is to provide a fall back point for aliens, the aliens place a bunch, the marines kill aliens, they respawn, the marines advance, they're stopped by gorges with hydra gardens. The aliens who respawned arrive again and push forward, the gorges move up with a new hydra garden to take that bloody meter they've gained to hold it and it goes so on and so on.
The marine sentry gun however, can be used both in this way and as a very deterring form of defense for most aliens simply because it's got a gun and they mostly don't have a firearm that works so well. The sentry guns biggest weakness is it requires a commander placing it, the requirement for mutually covered arcs of fire, power to supply it, and marines or MAC's to build it, unlike the hydra which is pretty much placed by a gorge on his own.
I think the true problem in the game really isn't sentry guns vs hydras, though for frame rates sake I'd prefer to see less, I'd much prefer to see fewer of each that were more powerful with an option to recycle them for both sides, its that there isn't anything that just says "Sentry guns? Is that what that tickling is?" IE the Onos. Honestly, the marines don't even need an onos like tech to compete in that situation, they've got guns.
Really I'm seeing: Onos is anti-sentry gun.
Heavy Armor/HMG is anti-Onos.
The idea is basically the Onos shifts the old tech level of sentry gun spam and hydra advances into "Kill the onos or protect the onos"
As for increasing the price of the Hydra, I can't say I'm fond of it, simply put you're not getting very much personal resources as a gorge and hydras already cost the same amount to build as it took you to evolve, not to mention the cysts you need. Added to that, the hydra just isn't really that threatening alone, one hydra won't even significantly slow down a single marine much less hurt him badly, the hydra itself will probably be wiped out in seconds unless a gorge is sitting there healing it at which point you've traded 1 gorge for 1 rifle marine, more than a fair trade. The best argument you could really make is that the marine will eventually run out of ammo and be forced to leave.
Really this is the difference, a sentry gun, all on its own, still can't be approached from the front without serious injury or flat death, it has to be outflanked carefully. A lone hydra however, can't be approached safely from any angle, but doesn't do very much damage and thus doesn't need to be, you can stand at the corner and empty a magazine of rifle ammo into it, and its dead in a handful of seconds.
I think UW needs to decide what the role of the sentry and hydra are really supposed to be. If they're just supposed to be delayers then sentry guns are vastly too good or aliens need a vastly better method of dealing with them (even bile bomb pales in comparison simply due to the fact that 1 gorge BBing is not the same as 1 marine with grenades, much less 2 with grenades in terms of firepower, both structural and otherwise.)
In the end, sentries and hydras make the game about pushing forward under AI defense, if that's what they want, that's what they've got, but if its not, sentries and hydras are not the way to go.