Lerk Spore System
vizioNz
InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">My suggestion</div>Since update 181, the Lerk has been nerfed and has turned a ranged-air combat class into a medium/small range combat class. The main reason for this is how the class is built and the way it works in terms of attacking. Here is my run-down on what I think can be done to improve the class and make it a worthy choice on the battlefield:
<ul><b>SPIKE SHOOTER:</b>
<blockquote></li><li>Lerk spikes have a decrease in height when taking distance into consideration. This looks great at the start, but you soon start to realize that in order to use the weapon, you have to be in close range. 90% of the current maps for NS2 are mostly small and in order for a Lerk to attack a power node or a structure, they must come in close to do so. In NS1, the maps were huge and the spike shooter (when enabled) was direct. This enabled the Lerk to utilize it's flight to get high and attack low.
<blockquote></li><li><b>Fix suggested:</b> Have the Spike shooter has less of a velocity decrease over distance... How heavy are those f*ing spikes that they drop so quickly!? (lol). A Gorges attack doesn't decrease in velocity, nor does the Parasite. Why are these spikes dropping so quickly?</blockquote></blockquote></li></ul>
<ul><b>SPORES:</b>
<blockquote></li><li>The new distance system for how far a "burst cloud" can travel seems to be hurting the Lerk even more. It didn't work this way in NS1 so I am not sure why this system has been implemented. I can see it being an issue if multiple Lerks are shooting spores repeatedly in an area causing a massive cloud, but isn't that the point of the game? To utilize the distance advantage the Lerk has?
<blockquote></li><li><b>Fix suggested: </b>Have the Lerk utilize Mouse1 & Mouse2 for Spores. Meaning, if I Mouse1 a spore, it will travel at the default distance it can travel (which should be as far as it can go within the area currently being resided). However, if I want to hit a group of marines that are approaching, I can Mouse1 then once I can see the distance from Lerk to Marines is accurate (spore will need to have a visual instead of it being invisible until the spore cloud shows up), I click Mouse2 and it disperse the spore cloud. This would be great if you want to put the control of the distance of how far a spore cloud will travel in the hands of the user. (which is how it should be).</blockquote></blockquote></li></ul>
These are just my suggestions and I am interested in hearing everyone's feedback. Thanks!
<ul><b>SPIKE SHOOTER:</b>
<blockquote></li><li>Lerk spikes have a decrease in height when taking distance into consideration. This looks great at the start, but you soon start to realize that in order to use the weapon, you have to be in close range. 90% of the current maps for NS2 are mostly small and in order for a Lerk to attack a power node or a structure, they must come in close to do so. In NS1, the maps were huge and the spike shooter (when enabled) was direct. This enabled the Lerk to utilize it's flight to get high and attack low.
<blockquote></li><li><b>Fix suggested:</b> Have the Spike shooter has less of a velocity decrease over distance... How heavy are those f*ing spikes that they drop so quickly!? (lol). A Gorges attack doesn't decrease in velocity, nor does the Parasite. Why are these spikes dropping so quickly?</blockquote></blockquote></li></ul>
<ul><b>SPORES:</b>
<blockquote></li><li>The new distance system for how far a "burst cloud" can travel seems to be hurting the Lerk even more. It didn't work this way in NS1 so I am not sure why this system has been implemented. I can see it being an issue if multiple Lerks are shooting spores repeatedly in an area causing a massive cloud, but isn't that the point of the game? To utilize the distance advantage the Lerk has?
<blockquote></li><li><b>Fix suggested: </b>Have the Lerk utilize Mouse1 & Mouse2 for Spores. Meaning, if I Mouse1 a spore, it will travel at the default distance it can travel (which should be as far as it can go within the area currently being resided). However, if I want to hit a group of marines that are approaching, I can Mouse1 then once I can see the distance from Lerk to Marines is accurate (spore will need to have a visual instead of it being invisible until the spore cloud shows up), I click Mouse2 and it disperse the spore cloud. This would be great if you want to put the control of the distance of how far a spore cloud will travel in the hands of the user. (which is how it should be).</blockquote></blockquote></li></ul>
These are just my suggestions and I am interested in hearing everyone's feedback. Thanks!
Comments
I was thinking, what if the spores fired at a default, short distance with a simple click, but could be "charged up" to fire longer distances by holding the click. The longer you hold the button, the further they go when you release. This would of course use more energy, so you couldn't spam spores from all the way across the map, but could make longer shots if you needed to. And you could always spam them in your immediate area if a marine shows up unexpectedly.
I was thinking, what if the spores fired at a default, short distance with a simple click, but could be "charged up" to fire longer distances by holding the click. The longer you hold the button, the further they go when you release. This would of course use more energy, so you couldn't spam spores from all the way across the map, but could make longer shots if you needed to. And you could always spam them in your immediate area if a marine shows up unexpectedly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another great idea, good thinking!
Yup, we are planning on making the spikes hitscan.
Spores are still not implemented in the way that we've been wanting to try out, which would be more of a trailing smoke effect (think crop dusting) where you can really use them to create a wall of spores to cut marines off, or encircle them. For now there are other areas of the game that we are focusing our attention on, but we will be returning to the Lerk, to continue to revise the spikes, spores and flight, as we know we aren't there yet on any of those.
--Cory
he was the only long range role the team had. some reasons the current implementation of the role doesnt work:
<ul><li>lerk is difficult to shoot for a multitude of factors, this is compounded when he's ontop of your position in your face</li><li>everyone has figured out that spores hurt more the closer you are (why!?) so they just flap circles around the rine at point blank range and he's dead and confused in seconds</li><li>if he can fly up to perches and parts of the level that are high, whats the point anymore considering a) none of his attacks go that far b) he cant be healed up there?</li><li>that spore distance now means its only his immediate get away gas as he flies away - because the distance you would be at to use this offensively, you would use the more damaging, accurate spikes.</li><li>quite simply, none of his attritubes, hp, armor, flight, weapons etc have been designed to fit with a melee attacker??</li></ul>
i dont get why he <i>needs </i>to be a melee class, either. was working fine before. was there any argument given for this at any time?
I agree. I've only had 1 kill with spores in 182 and I've played lerk a lot.
I also think spores need some kind of range option. "Crop dusting" a group of marines is just suicide when you have to get so close.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds absolutely amazing. Lerk was always my favourite form and with those spores changes I will be even happier!
he was the only long range role the team had.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because, for an alien that can fly, all he was doing before was sitting around on the ground, shooting targets from far away. We want the Lerk to be strafing marines, swooping and diving around. We agree that, the current implementation is still not there yet, maybe the spikes need a bit more range, maybe if he's going to be in close more often he needs to be beefed up in hitpoints a bit. But that is the reason for these changes, not so much to make him another melee class, but to get him flying around in combat more.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LerkLift! Let him pick up Gorges, and then the Gorge's can drop Bilebombs! The ultimate support unit!
Happy times! :D
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=110957&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....=110957&hl=</a>
I don't think any low dps projectile weapon is going to be fun to use as the lerk will have to fly to the marine in a straight path. Shotgun spikes or bite is much more fun.
There's nothing too much wrong with spores, as long as their cost is adjusted to balance.
Lerk bite from ns1 was 10000 million times more fun than current ns2 lerk.
i didn't see your response before i posted, oops.
yea i think if he's going to be used more for swooping etc then he should have bite as many others have suggested. the spikes keep the lerk at a distance or rather circle strafing the circle strafing marine like a dance as of 181.
also if he gets bite (which would be awesome) then you should just go the extra step and include a perch / hang from ceiling button to cling and wait like a bat in 3rd person. would be sweet. :)
if you guys included bite to be effective i.e. two bites no matter the lvl, he would surely be terrifying and people would hardly use spikes. win win?
Lerk spikes are projectiles. When a lerk fires, an actual object is created and then sent along a trajectory. If the projectile hits something during its lifetime, it will do damage to it.
* kind of like the snipe mode, but even faster than that and less powerful.
He is supposed to be close to the enemies, but not THAT close. Just doesn't fit the behaviour you would expect if you look at his body.
yes. one way to achieve this is to make the spikes you see only be "fake" projectiles, doing no damage and having no effect, and the actual damage is dealt in the moment you press your attack button.
this would be the better solution if you have a high ping / server performance. currently the amount of degrees you have to lead your spikes is very variable.
And I have to admit, I didnt expect that I have to lead the spikes as lerk when I played first. The lerk would play smoother with hitscan. you cannot make acrobatics in the air, watch the running marines and in the same team calculate the distance and the degree you have to lead your spikes. the focus should be on the "air acrobatics"