Lerk 3.0
Sewlek
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">if you are not satisfied with 2.0!</div>As the topic title says I want to discuss possible improvements / changes regarding the lerk class.
I was reading that uwe wants to make the lerk to participate more in close/mid combat, which resulted in changes to spikes and spore range. So I was thinking several days now how to change the lerk to make him a mid to close range combat supporter.
I thought about removing sniper shot, even though i like this ability and its fun in game, it breaks the desired asymmetry between kharaa and marines. So removing this would leave a lerk who has
slot 1: spikes
slot 2: spores
with this we have a lerk which performs ok in mid range combat, and increased in close range (spikes damage dropoff). you can avoid shotgun max damage (by staying in mid range as a tradeoff your own dps will be lower) and deal some reasonable amount of supportive damage in general (also high enough to take out marines on your own). I was playing with changes to the lerk flight model (twiliteblues mod) to make him more agile in the air (dodge bullets better), which would be required to perform in close range combat.
At 2 hives, the whole alien team becomes stronger through gaining new advanced abilities on all life-forms (tier 2). The Skulk receives leap, the gorge bilebomb (the fade has blink, but he is only avaible at 2 hives currently anyway and does not lose blink once the second hive is killed). And the Lerk?
slot 1 alt fire: short range shotgun like spike shot (actually the opposite of sniper)
slot 2 alt fire: umbra
now you may think, why the hell give him these 2 abilties? its quite simple: The Lerk should be very agile (more than a skulk at least...) and he should participate in short range combat. now, he would have his support abilities spores and umbra. Umbra would work like spores (you shoot it in a direction), except the range would be like spore range in build 181 (the range was set to aprox. 3, whatever that means in measures :D ). The Alt Fire of Spikes would make the Lerk WANT to go in close range and umbra (also close range only) gives him the survivability to do so. this would also add synergy to the rest of the alien team: All classes have primary melee attacks (not counting gorge here, he is actually only builder / healer / anti structure).
I imagine scenarios like this: Alien team have 1 hive only, waiting for 2nd to appear. Now skulks without leap cant play very aggresive, neither gorge (bilebomb missing). So the overall offensive capability is quite low for the alien team. This is also reflected on the lerk: He has only spores (area denial) and standard spikes (supportive damage).
Now the aliens have their second hive up: Skulks leap in marines' faces and gorges happily siege the marine base / outposts. Much more aggresive, so is the Lerk: He has another reason (besides standard spikes) to engange close range combat and shoot his "heavy damage shotgun like" spikes and he has the tool to survive much longer: umbra.
<!--coloro:#808080--><span style="color:#808080"><!--/coloro-->Another idea, which is not related to the lerk, but goes hand in hand with those changes:
Since currently the crag has the spawn umbra ability, he would not need it anymore. Instead I would like to introduce something new that would fit the chambers role as well: Trigger a HOT on a target (or spawn heal spray cloud somewhere on infestation)! This idea is really simple and the aliens would benefit from having multiple crags (make it cost like 45% energy). And, the aliens currently dont have an innate regeneration effect. Even if you choose "Regeneration" as an upgrade later on, these effects could stack on a lifeform. See it the alien comms version of a medpack<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
if your have other ideas, or the opinion lerks should not change at all, please write down your arguments :)
I was reading that uwe wants to make the lerk to participate more in close/mid combat, which resulted in changes to spikes and spore range. So I was thinking several days now how to change the lerk to make him a mid to close range combat supporter.
I thought about removing sniper shot, even though i like this ability and its fun in game, it breaks the desired asymmetry between kharaa and marines. So removing this would leave a lerk who has
slot 1: spikes
slot 2: spores
with this we have a lerk which performs ok in mid range combat, and increased in close range (spikes damage dropoff). you can avoid shotgun max damage (by staying in mid range as a tradeoff your own dps will be lower) and deal some reasonable amount of supportive damage in general (also high enough to take out marines on your own). I was playing with changes to the lerk flight model (twiliteblues mod) to make him more agile in the air (dodge bullets better), which would be required to perform in close range combat.
At 2 hives, the whole alien team becomes stronger through gaining new advanced abilities on all life-forms (tier 2). The Skulk receives leap, the gorge bilebomb (the fade has blink, but he is only avaible at 2 hives currently anyway and does not lose blink once the second hive is killed). And the Lerk?
slot 1 alt fire: short range shotgun like spike shot (actually the opposite of sniper)
slot 2 alt fire: umbra
now you may think, why the hell give him these 2 abilties? its quite simple: The Lerk should be very agile (more than a skulk at least...) and he should participate in short range combat. now, he would have his support abilities spores and umbra. Umbra would work like spores (you shoot it in a direction), except the range would be like spore range in build 181 (the range was set to aprox. 3, whatever that means in measures :D ). The Alt Fire of Spikes would make the Lerk WANT to go in close range and umbra (also close range only) gives him the survivability to do so. this would also add synergy to the rest of the alien team: All classes have primary melee attacks (not counting gorge here, he is actually only builder / healer / anti structure).
I imagine scenarios like this: Alien team have 1 hive only, waiting for 2nd to appear. Now skulks without leap cant play very aggresive, neither gorge (bilebomb missing). So the overall offensive capability is quite low for the alien team. This is also reflected on the lerk: He has only spores (area denial) and standard spikes (supportive damage).
Now the aliens have their second hive up: Skulks leap in marines' faces and gorges happily siege the marine base / outposts. Much more aggresive, so is the Lerk: He has another reason (besides standard spikes) to engange close range combat and shoot his "heavy damage shotgun like" spikes and he has the tool to survive much longer: umbra.
<!--coloro:#808080--><span style="color:#808080"><!--/coloro-->Another idea, which is not related to the lerk, but goes hand in hand with those changes:
Since currently the crag has the spawn umbra ability, he would not need it anymore. Instead I would like to introduce something new that would fit the chambers role as well: Trigger a HOT on a target (or spawn heal spray cloud somewhere on infestation)! This idea is really simple and the aliens would benefit from having multiple crags (make it cost like 45% energy). And, the aliens currently dont have an innate regeneration effect. Even if you choose "Regeneration" as an upgrade later on, these effects could stack on a lifeform. See it the alien comms version of a medpack<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
if your have other ideas, or the opinion lerks should not change at all, please write down your arguments :)
Comments
- LMB .. spit (as targeted attack)
- RMB .. heal spray (as cloud weapon)
Lerk should also have same abilities under weapon 1:
- LMB .. spike (as targeted attack)
- RMB .. spore (as cloud weapon)
..then sniping should be as second attack:
- LMB .. snipe attack (shoot spikes)
- RMB .. will on/off zoom
my2cents
but i see a problem with that:
shouldn't then ALL abilities have a unique alt attack?
fade has blinking in slot 1 and 2.
gorge has no alternate attack for bilebomb
if we are ok with overlapping the you have:
2nd hive fade: unlocks blink
+movement fade: sprint (increases velocity a short time)
fade slot 1: swipe / blink
fade slot 2: stab / blink
2nd hive gorge: unlocks slot 2
+movement gorge: bellyslide
gorge slot 1: spit / healspray
gorge slot 2: bilebomb / healspray
2nd hive skulk: unlocks leap
+movement skulk: "sneak"
skulk slot 1: bite / leap
skulk slot 2: parasite / leap
and i have one small adjustment for the lerk based on your idea:
currently +movement does nothing for the lerk. it could trigger the zoom and make the lerk movement slowlier and his attacks accurate.
2nd hive lerk: unlocks snipe
+ movement lerk: zoom (actually it is a movement ability, since it decreases your max speed as a tradeoff for increased accuracy)
slot 1: spikes / spores
slot 2: snipe / spores
unzoomed snipe shot could behave like the shotgun (would make sense somehow)
edit: hive 3 could be then slot 1 primary attack but changed alternate (to alter the classes gameplay):
skulk: bite / leap+next succesful bite triggers xenocide
gorge: spit / web
lerk: spikes / umbra (or some "slow"-spores? I have no great ideas here)
fade: swipe / fetch (actually the opposite of blink. bring the enemy to you instead of going to him)
update: possible for the onos:
+movement boneshield
gore(break doors and +structure damage) / stomp
impale("crack" exosuit) / stomp
gore / charge (instead of slowly pushing forward and absorbing damage, we charge reckless in group of marines)
sidenode for impale: the ability should not simply be better than gore, or the same as stab. impale should slow the onos down, so marines with standard speed would be very difficult to hit. it would deal increased damage against armor, but will not kill a marine instantly
unless stab, its a starter move not a finisher
unless gore, it should not be spammed or knock the target back
I would like to make small adjustments:
1.) +movement fade: sprint (increases velocity <strike>a short time</strike> same as marines sprint)
2.) sorry but I don't like idea of lerk "shotgunner" :)
.. un-zoomed snipe will work as snipe but will consume maybe more energy (to prevent spamming) ??
3.) 3'th hive don't alter alternate attack in first slot, just add next slot (4 / 5) with your description.
make sense?
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short recapitulation ... it looks like it will be great to have only one alternative attack per class:
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>SKULK</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
slot 1: bite / leap
slot 2: parasite / leap
slot 3: xenocide / leap
+movement skulk: "sneak"
2nd hive: unlocks leap
3th hive: unlocks xenocide
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>GORGE</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
slot 1: spit / healspray
slot 2: bilebomb / healspray
slot 3: web / healspray
cyst, hydra (bindeable, default to 4 and 5 slot)
+movement gorge: bellyslide
2nd hive: unlocks bilebomb
3th hive: unlocks web
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>LERK</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
slot 1: spikes / spores
slot 2: snipe / spores
slot 3: umbra? / spores
+ movement lerk: zoom (actually it is a movement ability, since it decreases your max speed as a tradeoff for increased accuracy)
2nd hive: unlocks snipe
3th hive: unlocks umbra?
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>FADE</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
fade slot 1: swipe / blink
fade slot 2: stab / blink
fade slot 3: ??? / blink
+movement fade: sprint (increases velocity <strike>a short time</strike> same as marines sprint)
2nd hive fade: unlocks blink
3th hive fade: unlocks ???
make sense?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe I didnt express it clear:
You will get a third weapon slot. there you have your primary attack (standard dps dmg attack) and a different alternate attack than in the other slots. the abilities triggered by pressing LMB / RMB should fit together.
thats why I think spit + web is a nice combination
also xenocide-leap + bite. (a successful bite will make you explode)
now more about the idea I like the most: <!--coloro:#800080--><span style="color:#800080"><!--/coloro-->Fetch<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I put more thoughts into that:
Fetch will put you and the targeted marine in ethereal mode. You will hear this "flop" sound -> marine and fade disappear. Now, the visual effects are the same: this blue blurring vision for the fade and the affected marine, and from outside as usual you will see this black fog. But the commander or other marines will not be able to see or hit both of them :)
During holding down RMB, you will slowly move the marine to your position. the marine can still fire his weapon, but is unable to damage anything except of the fade who is fetching him (other aliens will not see or hear his shooting). the fade can move forward only very slowly during that time (backward and strafing speed remains the same), but if he loses his target for 0.5 (number needs to be adjusted) seconds or stops holding RMB both will pop out of ethereal mode. of course this ability should drain energy and should have activation cost (like blink should have aswell). to make it not ultimately better than blink: make it have higher activation cost than blink and difficult to handle
swipe / fetch
edit: and one more thing I forgot to mention: fetch will be affected by the marines weight. (armor upgrades, exosuit will affect the marines speed in ethereal mode)
edit2: and of course speed is affected by the carried weapon ( = weight ) and the way between marine and fade needs to be clear. that means your marine team mates could jump between the fade and the marine being fetched, but well, thats suicide :) (because then the helping marine will get fetched :D )
(try to 3'th person view spectating fade player.. you will see small dot of fade during blink state :)
I'm not sure how can be implemented the fetch in your vision. But it make sense and is cool idea.
BTW: I don't have good feeling about "xenocide after successful bite". I like NS1 style, when you jump out of vent into marine base and just explode .. and throw your slimy toxic gore all around ... to make everybody happy :D
Also, not having to keep switching between fire and spores while flying and dodging bullets would be nice.
If we give fury to the lerk, we might should think about something else for the whip. Or, much more simplier: primal scream enables all nearby allies to use abilities without requiring energy. that would stack with fury very good well :) the alien comm should also have some fun in the offense i would say. the picture you see from above when you trigger "fury" would be awesome. all lifeforms on the ground go crazy together with primal scream
I would like to see that alien chamber abilities get streamlimed: either each chamber 1 ability (or each chamber two). upgrading to "mature" makes the more powerful ability available along with increased hitpoints / energy
I would like to see that alien chamber abilities get streamlimed: either each chamber 1 ability (or each chamber two). upgrading to "mature" makes the more powerful ability available along with increased hitpoints / energy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really hope the devs put in your sexy flamethrower, it looks amazing!
problem is you dont see so much when you shoot it :D
aliens have their alien vision, but marines are blind somehow. I added recently client side
prediction, but it did not make it much better (flames disappear earlier since you dont wait for the server to trigger the cinematics)
I guess some more artwork and some work on the cinematics would do the trick. the cinematics are anyway buggy currently :)
As for weapons, ever thought about a lerk "crop dusting" enemies with spores? IE enemies it swoops over get hit with some type of spore that has an interesting effect. It could just be normal damage, or maybe it could be an hallucinogen that makes their colors go all wonky and causes them to see things that may or may not be there.
I think the lerks spore ability is what makes it really unique more so that its spikes, and the spores jibe more with the crazy alien feel over shooting bone spikes at people. I think you could probably go absolutely crazy with different types of spores on the lerk and have it play a very unique and interesting role.
slot 1
primary attack: bite
secondary attack: spores
slot 2
primary attack: spikes
secondary attack: umbra
or
slot 1
primary attack: bite
secondary attack: umbra
slot 2
primary attack: spores
secondary attack: spikes
umbra and bite must be given back to the lerk, he always been long range support class while being close combat fighter in ns1. current changes to the lerk only dull his experience as close combat fighter, and nerfing the class further down.