So this say all...marines are OP now

RTV

<div class="IPBDescription">aliens sucks...</div><a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180&length=20" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...0&length=20</a>

Marine Wins: 23 (69.70%)
Alien Wins: 10 (30.30%)
Said everything, marines are way to overpowered, also the slow down if you get hit as alien (but not as marine) is annyoing...

Edit:
Marines win most times, aliens win only, if the game takes to much time.

Chris0132

<!--quoteo(post=1859510:date=Jul 10 2011, 08:20 PM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Jul 10 2011, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine Wins: 55 (55.00%)
Alien Wins: 45 (45.00%)
Said everything, marines are way to overpowered,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Not sure if serious.

IeptBarakat

<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180&length=500" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...&length=500</a>

waka waka waka

Shilorius

????

strange!

But come to think about it.. I understand
Aliens can win the game. Maybe with a rush, maybe with a better commander, better teamplay and so on, but
in the endgame if marine turtle up in their base, tha game ends up as a stalemate which can go on for hours until either the marine com decides to sell the IP or one of the teams looses to much players so that the other team gains the advantage.

RisingSun

<!--quoteo(post=1859521:date=Jul 10 2011, 02:00 PM:name=Shilorius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shilorius @ Jul 10 2011, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859521"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->????

strange!

But come to think about it.. I understand
Aliens can win the game. Maybe with a rush, maybe with a better commander, better teamplay and so on, but
in the endgame if marine turtle up in their base, tha game ends up as a stalemate which can go on for hours until either the marine com decides to sell the IP or one of the teams looses to much players so that the other team gains the advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

^ THIS! Gimmie Onos! <3

Uzrbital

<!--quoteo(post=1859525:date=Jul 10 2011, 02:11 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Jul 10 2011, 02:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859525"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^ THIS! Gimmie Onos! <3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ [Insert quoted text] Also, the alien commander's minimap have to be fixed... I just hate it when someone decide to attack some hive, and then I don't even know where they attack. So I end up checking the entire map, looking for a structure under attack. The Alien Com also needs those heads up display thingy which the marines have, would be neaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

Chris0132

Both minimaps need fixing, neither side has functional alerts, half the time they don't even play in the list at the right.

Raneman

This is from build 162, a bit of a stretch from 180.

subshadow

Oh my god!

<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180&length=10" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...0&length=10</a>

ScardyBob

<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=180" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...ats?version=180</a>

I like the non-length, non-map specific version. But if you want to see by map:

Here's B180 summit
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...amp;version=180</a>

Here's B180 tram
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_tram&version=180" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...amp;version=180</a>

Here's B180 rockdown
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_rockdown&version=180" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...amp;version=180</a>

Actually, it looks like B180 is most balanced for summit (50% marine wins), but aliens are still favored on tram and rockdown (though I'd like to see more matches for tram).

Asraniel

wasn't there a place where somebody made a prettier version of those graphs? because one has to guess what length=10 means

But overall it looks like the balance gets better and better. The people crying now are probably those that where used to win every game, and now they sometimes lose one.

Dickbeard the Pirate

It definitely seems that way to me. MAYBE it's just bad luck. MAYBE the guys on the marine team just happen to be the ones who know what they're doing. But take this example from just 10 minutes ago, I spend 300 res hooking up my one resource tower with whips, crags, and gorge turret things, while my team are trying desperately to fight their way into the other direction so we can actually get a second hive up and start making Fades, and while I'm not looking ONE MARINE comes in and destroys the entire area with grenades by shooting around corners and by the time my skulks get there every structure is destroyed, in less then a minute, and the marine runs away laughing.

End Game Marines are overpowered 1v1 against any alien except fade. This is a fact. Just smack and shoot if it's a skulk, just shoot if it's a lerk because he can't hit you from where he's standing, and just slowly waltz left and right while shooting if it's a gorge.

The part where it all falls down with with the marines unparalleled ability to put pressure on unguarded installations because they have large extremely damaging AoE attacks. Any marine can just run up, fire a few grenades around the corner or shoot fire through the walls and cause considerable damage. Aliens, IF they manage too find a spot where the network of sentry guns can't hit them but they can hit a structure (which is rare and can take a long time) can only deal very minuscule amounts of damage to one structure at a time.

Like I said, MAYBE it's just because my team was bad and the marine team was good, but the fact that EVERY game I've played in the last three or four patches has ended with marines just strolling in, not even trying that hard, and taking us out with sheer overpowering force speaks for itself.

ScardyBob

After playing some more matches as aliens, it does seem a semi-competent marine team will dominate. Shotgun rushes devastate cysts and 2nd hives. After getting rolled about 4 matches in a roll as alien comm, I'm kind of surprised that the stats still show a slight alien win balance. I'm getting the impression that it might have to do with playercount, such that
lower playercount (<10) favors aliens
higher playercount (>10) favors marines

The marine domination seems to occur mostly with higher playercount where you can get a critical mass of marines (6-7) with shotguns that just roll over any alien force less than fades. Since there are more likely more smaller matches (<10) than larger, that might explain the win statistics.

GeneralBowser

After playing for an evening I can def say that I think Marines are overpowered. Points that anoy me the most:
1)Alien commander having to switch hives, and not having 1 energy pool for all hives
2)Fades can't kill a structure
3)The slow down on hit, in particular very annoying when playing a gorge followed by skulk
Getting slowed down a little like 10-20%, is ok, but coming to a complete stop when being fired on? Pfft..

I haven't had the chance to try out the new lerk, so can't comment there

ceribik

<!--quoteo(post=1859510:date=Jul 11 2011, 05:20 AM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Jul 11 2011, 05:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_tram&version=162&length=500" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...&length=500</a>

Marine Wins: 55 (55.00%)
Alien Wins: 45 (45.00%)
Said everything, marines are way to overpowered, also the slow down if you get hit as alien (but not as marine) is annyoing...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You might want to check the url before actually spouting crap. The stats you quoted are for build 162 <!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(version=162)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->.

<!--quoteo(post=1859515:date=Jul 11 2011, 05:24 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jul 11 2011, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859515"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180&length=500" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...&length=500</a>

waka waka waka<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This proper graph ^ shows the aliens winning more than twice as much as the rines.

GeneralBowser

<!--quoteo(post=1859625:date=Jul 11 2011, 09:06 AM:name=ceribik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ceribik @ Jul 11 2011, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859625"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You might want to check the url before actually spouting crap. The stats you quoted are for build 162 <!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(version=162)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->.



This proper graph ^ shows the aliens winning more than twice as much as the rines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Graph doesn't say everything. Tier 1 vs Tier 1 might have an advantage for aliens (skulk rush anyone?), but Tier 2 vs Tier 2 marines are OP..

Lazer

I think things have started to even out a bit. I've been running stats for a well performing server and since 180 aliens have been ahead:

<a href="http://devin-afshin.com/ns2s_Map.aspx?map=ns2_summit" target="_blank">http://devin-afshin.com/ns2s_Map.aspx?map=ns2_summit</a> (only played summit so far)

Also surprisingly bite has more kills than shotgun:

<a href="http://devin-afshin.com/ns2s_Weapons.aspx" target="_blank">http://devin-afshin.com/ns2s_Weapons.aspx</a>

Taxen0

<!--quoteo(post=1859681:date=Jul 11 2011, 01:38 PM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Jul 11 2011, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also surprisingly bite has more kills than shotgun:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

not that surprising imo, Lerk is pretty useless (for most of us) and the fade is also a lot harder to play (some even refuse to).
The gorge is not really a offensive class, so that leaves us with the skulk as the main alien force.

where the marines spread their kills over GL, flamer and shotgun, (the rifle is also pretty good vs skulks now). oh and don't forget about turrets.

Bacillus

You can have all your pretty pie charts, but actual balance discussion considers things like the level of play, round length and so on.

For example surely aliens are going to win if you let them have the 2nd hive just like that. Surely marines playing well never let the aliens get the 2nd hive. At that point it can be all 50% wins for both while the game is absolutely horribly balanced.

Give it a couple of weeks, try to figure out optimal strategies and then start a thread on what you've discovered.

gorge.ous

<!--quoteo(post=1859625:date=Jul 11 2011, 10:06 AM:name=ceribik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ceribik @ Jul 11 2011, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859625"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This proper graph ^ shows the aliens winning more than twice as much as the rines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

All games I won (which are quiet a few) as alien was either because marines had two or more players less (got bored and disconnected) during stalemate or the marine commander sold the IP to end it. Which actually happens a lot. Winning by "skill" has only happened a few times. And if it happens then early in the game, before the stalemate sets in.
So the graph <b>might</b> be flawed.

Techercizer

<!--quoteo(post=1859688:date=Jul 11 2011, 08:03 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jul 11 2011, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can have all your pretty pie charts, but actual balance discussion considers things like the level of play, round length and so on.
...
Give it a couple of weeks, try to figure out optimal strategies and then start a thread on what you've discovered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1

Erriiieeee

Aliens really need an Onos now, this would end stalemates and I'm sure Marines would have no problem taking an onos out especially since the entire team can be armed with shotties.

Chris0132

Particularly if the slowdown on hit works on onoses as well, slow on hit is good for the larger lifeforms, the only thing I think it sucks for is skulks, but everything else it seems to work OK with.

ScardyBob

<!--quoteo(post=1859688:date=Jul 11 2011, 06:03 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jul 11 2011, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can have all your pretty pie charts, but actual balance discussion considers things like the level of play, round length and so on.

For example surely aliens are going to win if you let them have the 2nd hive just like that. Surely marines playing well never let the aliens get the 2nd hive. At that point it can be all 50% wins for both while the game is absolutely horribly balanced.

Give it a couple of weeks, try to figure out optimal strategies and then start a thread on what you've discovered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Balance discussion with data > balance discussion without data

That being said, 'balanced' doesn't necessarily mean 'fun'. Right now I'd say B180 is more balanced, but less fun than previous version (at least on the alien side).

Erriiieeee

I really don't like the slowdown on hit mechanic but if it does stay then it needs to not affect Skulks as you said chris. SG's + FT's would effectively slow if not kill an onos with movement impairment + energy drain so come on UWE bring on the Onos!

RTV

<!--quoteo(post=1859625:date=Jul 11 2011, 08:06 AM:name=ceribik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ceribik @ Jul 11 2011, 08:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859625"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You might want to check the url before actually spouting crap. The stats you quoted are for build 162 <!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(version=162)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->.



This proper graph ^ shows the aliens winning more than twice as much as the rines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mistake kid, i copy wrong link:

<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180&length=20" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...0&length=20</a>

Marine Wins: 23 (69.70%)
Alien Wins: 10 (30.30%)

<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->MARINE STILL WIN <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

Of course after a long time aliens win because alien commander expand much...and the marines have to defend the base (if you would turn your brain on you should know...)

IronHalik

Also there seems to be quite a problem with turret spam - with undisciplined alien team, marines slowly but steadily spamming turrets will almost always win - not to mention it lags the server and lag favors bullets over bites.

Raneman

<!--quoteo(post=1859743:date=Jul 11 2011, 05:20 PM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Jul 11 2011, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mistake kid, i copy wrong link:

<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180&length=20" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...0&length=20</a>

Marine Wins: 23 (69.70%)
Alien Wins: 10 (30.30%)

<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->MARINE STILL WIN <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

Of course after a long time aliens win because alien commander expand much...and the marines have to defend the base (if you would turn your brain on you should know...)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...amp;version=180</a>

Quit trolling. You just put in random time values until you found something that'd suit your needs.
<img src="http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-frogout.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

autograder

I've played some very competitive games, some very slow games, and some very unbalanced games - but these were mostly because of player skill level and/or the strategy we tried as a team (expand vs rush).

Keep in mind this is beta - some people play alot, some not so much.

There is a definite trend of people jumping in right after a patch, which makes sense. I played a game last night where the aliens were mostly people just trying out the new patch, however the marines were looking to win and rolled us over game after game. There were a few who got annoyed and started saying the marines were OP. So guess what? We changed sides and still got rolled. The server emptied and an hour later it was full with a different set of people. We played a couple of games that were touch and go for both sides.

I'm very surprised at the level of competitive play possible at this stage of the beta, with lots to come. If you think the marines are OP, then play marines until you know their weakness, then try and expose it as aliens. Play with friends, play the same server at the same time every week, make friends. This is suppose to be fun :D

I would hope to see drastic balance changes now, patch to patch. Small tweaks can come later when things are more concrete.

Don't forget, it is beta.

RTV

<!--quoteo(post=1859748:date=Jul 11 2011, 05:40 PM:name=Raneman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raneman @ Jul 11 2011, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...amp;version=180</a>

Quit trolling. You just put in random time values until you found something that'd suit your needs.
<img src="http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-frogout.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YOU should quit trolling...
<img src="http://api.ning.com/files/3JTfZWtD4qq8gjdlaYXg6C56pj5BCKboxWilYYLFZp4_/FACEPALM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
There is MORE then just watching a statistic little brainiac...
For example (keep in mind little boy, its a a example...)
Aliens win alot in STATISTIC, because they can simply run over the marine base at start which count as a game which is won by aliens...
Aliens can overrun a marine base and destroy the infantry portals, but marines can not just run into the hive and shoot it down without needing ammo or something...
If you don't understand this example, you should not talk anymore with the big boys.

Oh and:
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?map=ns2_summit&version=180&length=2000" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...amp;length=2000</a>
Marine Wins: 116 (57.71%)
Alien Wins: 85 (42.29%)
EEEK

Edit:
Update...one more win for Marines.
Marine Wins: 117 (57.92%)
Alien Wins: 85 (42.08%)

OutlawDr

Looking at 10 minute and above games (which compose around 50% of all games) its almost 50/50. Yes the longer the game drags on, the more likely marines win. The problem is more that the games drag on though.