Just something that's been bugging me. The screen shake upon successfully biting a building is giving me motion sickness. I find it difficult to bite an extractor and keep my eye on the screen to look for marines without feeling queezy. Please tone it down a little bit for the next patch.
<!--quoteo(post=1859995:date=Jul 12 2011, 10:21 AM:name=Tacota)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tacota @ Jul 12 2011, 10:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course this balance only applies to the build as is. Are some of yall stupid? I see people "Uh the game isn't balanced, marines don't even have everything." Well of course not, neither do aliens. They didn't claim the entire game is balanced, but just getting more towards it, AS IS. Why not have it balanced as much as possible in its current state, with its current features?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The devs are already making balance changes all the time and testing new stuff. but why halt the production of new features and get perfect balance just to break it all again when they implement something new? just because you make the current game balanced doesn't mean those features will be balanced next patch, minor things can have unforeseen side effects.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1860000:date=Jul 12 2011, 02:38 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Jul 12 2011, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just something that's been bugging me. The screen shake upon successfully biting a building is giving me motion sickness. I find it difficult to bite an extractor and keep my eye on the screen to look for marines without feeling queezy. Please tone it down a little bit for the next patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I agree. Please make melee attack animation slower. Rapid shaking should be reserved for taking damage, so the two are clearly distinguishable.
Also, the red damage indicator for receiving damage is too small. I recall the damage indicators are a lot large in other FPS games.
<!--quoteo(post=1860001:date=Jul 12 2011, 05:42 AM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jul 12 2011, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860001"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The devs are already making balance changes all the time and testing new stuff. but why halt the production of new features and get perfect balance just to break it all again when they implement something new? just because you make the current game balanced doesn't mean those features will be balanced next patch, minor things can have unforeseen side effects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well yeah, of course. It will be unbalanced repeatedly in some aspects. But there will always be marine vs skulk early gameplay, among other things. Doesn't hurt to get to work on that. And I guarantee you they are not halting any major features or performance fixes in order to balance.
<!--quoteo(post=1860008:date=Jul 12 2011, 11:11 AM:name=Tacota)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tacota @ Jul 12 2011, 11:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well yeah, of course. It will be unbalanced repeatedly in some aspects. But there will always be marine vs skulk early gameplay, among other things. Doesn't hurt to get to work on that. And I guarantee you they are not halting any major features or performance fixes in order to balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know they don't, but it sounded on you like you wanted them to just balance the game before continuing, I might have misunderstood you.
changing numbers around for obvious fixes don't take much time but gives a better game experience is all good, they do this already (the shotgun cost decrease was a temp fix against the alien domination). and even things like early marine vs skulk (imo its been fine the latest builds) can change, like when they implemented the recent slow on hit. or less obvious things like minimap scouting for nodes.
Are you serius? The balance has improve ? ok congrats , but what about GAMEPLAY?
Its ok that the game need balance but not KILLING THE GAMEPLAY , i donot want play as fade hiting that slow and whit that energy joke , i donth want try to kill some build and only hit 6 times , doing a joke damage same as i was skulk. And lerk , oh wow lerks.... You need be close like if u want suck rines balls , and they can shoot u 100m away , primary attack totally indeed!
Gonna be funny see ppl crying "ONOS IS OVER" , of course onos is over thats the point.
Then I want see Onos (slowmob) + on Flames = epic fail
<!--quoteo(post=1860063:date=Jul 12 2011, 03:28 PM:name=Necr0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Necr0 @ Jul 12 2011, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you serius? The balance has improve ? ok congrats , but what about GAMEPLAY?
Its ok that the game need balance but not KILLING THE GAMEPLAY , i donot want play as fade hiting that slow and whit that energy joke , i donth want try to kill some build and only hit 6 times , doing a ###### damage same as i was skulk , and lerk , oh wow lerks.... You need be close like if u want suck rines balls , and they can shoot u 100m away , primary attack totally indeed!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like the gameplay, sorry to see you don't. I play mostly aliens, and the only thing that's lacking is a siege breaker, the role of the former fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1860067:date=Jul 12 2011, 03:36 PM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jul 12 2011, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860067"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the gameplay, sorry to see you don't. I play mostly aliens, and the only thing that's lacking is a siege breaker, the role of the former fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And whats the point about doing the same build damage as skulk as fade? Skulk maybe low dmg but infinite bite energy , fade more dmg but only 6 hit , its a joke. whats the point there?
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Hate the slowdown effect. One shot from a sentry as a skulk and you're dead. As marine, if you get bit once by a skulk, you're dead because you can't move. Please remove. It takes all skill out of the equation.
<!--quoteo(post=1859992:date=Jul 12 2011, 09:09 AM:name=spacedaniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spacedaniel @ Jul 12 2011, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859992"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Frag me if I'm wrong but why put so much time into balance already? There's no point in balancing it until every feature, weapon and all tiers are available IMHO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At this stage, the best thing for the development is to focus our efforts are getting the core game working well. That includes better performance, basic balance, better defined player roles and abilities, and better commander/player interaction. If the basic foundation is not working well yet, it just doesn't make sense to add the 3rd tech tier (Onos, exos, jetpacks, etc.) as that just introduces a lot of new issues, bugs, balance problems and general gameplay intricacies that make it much more difficult to sort out what is working or not working with the core game.
We aren't looking for perfect balance, and we are thinking ahead to the 3rd tech tier when we make changes, but it makes sense to sort out some of the large imbalances at this stage, while continuing to add features to the core gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1860000:date=Jul 12 2011, 09:38 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Jul 12 2011, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just something that's been bugging me. The screen shake upon successfully biting a building is giving me motion sickness. I find it difficult to bite an extractor and keep my eye on the screen to look for marines without feeling queezy. Please tone it down a little bit for the next patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good call. We went ahead and removed this for attacking structures, since its such a repeated motion. Should be in the next patch.
OK I'm fragged :) If it works for you who are actually making the game then by all means. Personally, since I don't spend as many hours actually playing (Europe = few servers, few players, lousy ping), I just wan't to see the core features in place (onos, jetpack, exos (perhaps the old unimplemented NS1 nuke(?)) before I dive into it. If I don't like the balance once the game is released I'm just going to LUA the cr@p out of it on my server anyway :)
<!--quoteo(post=1860107:date=Jul 12 2011, 05:59 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 12 2011, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good call. We went ahead and removed this for attacking structures, since its such a repeated motion. Should be in the next patch.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited July 2011
I placed this here as I didn't believe there needed to be a thread on it. Issues I feel the current marine arsenal faces. Sure the marine arsenal is incomplete. But I feel there are some major problems with how the current system is set up.
The Assault Rifle is essentially the lmg. The lmg is the least favored gun in ns1, it is always swapped out for a better gun by the end of the game. The small firing zone on the gun and low damage output makes it so pinpoint accuracy is required to kill any creature, and the farther the game progresses, the more the gun is turning useless. The hmg fixes these problems, but due to not wanting to make the lmg/assault rifle obsolete by mid-game, the hmg was removed.
The Shotgun is the one gun kills all. If it bleeds, it probably already met your shotgun. If that secondary attack with the long distance shotgun shot comes in, you won't need any other gun. The gun is too affordable and powerful, and is easy to obtain early in the game. Late players coming in with 25 res means that there will be shotguns abundant for the entire game once it's researched. Without the heavy machine gun, the shotgun is the only weapons choice people make.
Grenade launcher attachment. Two functions, lob grenades and shoot players. Both of which it isn't great at. And it makes the 20 res you spent feel wasted. The shooting functions the same as the lmg/assault rifle and the gl attachment is worse than the original grenade launcher. The grenades you lob bounce like super balls which makes them hard to use, and slow firing rate and grenade count is hardly useful when it's compared to the original gl. The gl attachment might be worth it if the explode on surface returned. Currently, it is hardly used. And the arcs and point blank shotguns will make these obsolete in structure clearance.
Flamethrower. Obsolete since cysts were implemented. Clears infestation, but anything else can shoot cysts to clear infestation faster. Only role left is setting players ablaze for dot's and energy slowdowns. Unfortunately, it's an assist weapon. And the player you assisted got the res for kill. With the highest cost and the lowest income, it's generally avoided.
With all this going for it, the shotgun could just be the default weapon. As the first thing someone does when they join a game or respawn, is buy a shotgun.
Sounds like cysts should be much smaller and have more life. Perhaps cost less as well. On top of that, bring back the fade to black. I can't imagine there were that many people that liked boring solid dark red over atmospheric fading.
So I just added swedish and arabic to the gamestrings folder, how do I test and see if they are working? I think I will have problems with arabic since its written from right to left.
<!--quoteo(post=1860204:date=Jul 12 2011, 11:24 PM:name=Avalon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avalon @ Jul 12 2011, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On top of that, bring back the fade to black. I can't imagine there were that many people that liked boring solid dark red over atmospheric fading.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok, since I've seen all the +1s in this thread regarding this lighting change. What happened there was a change had been made to try out a desaturated red lighting, because it was thought to be too red. This resulted in a weird pinkish brown lighting, and a bunch of us around the office felt this didn't work very well, and that the saturated red felt more like emergency lighting and more dangerous.
The changes were reverted to put the old red back, without realizing that there was also the fading to black that had been put in as well. Removing the fading was just an unintentional byproduct of putting the red back in, and we'll be sorting this out, hopefully for the next patch.
<!--quoteo(post=1860071:date=Jul 12 2011, 03:40 PM:name=Necr0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Necr0 @ Jul 12 2011, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And whats the point about doing the same build damage as skulk as fade? Skulk maybe low dmg but infinite bite energy , fade more dmg but only 6 hit , its a joke. whats the point there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The point is that fade is not supposed to be a siege weapon.. it's supposed to excel at surprise attacks, taking out 1-2 marines and disappear. The problem is not that the fade is bad, the problem is that the aliens lost all the good siege weapons. (the previously ridiculous fade, and the range of the lerk). but once any of the following happens: onos is in, bilebomb reworked, bombard implemented or turrets tweaked (they are doing this now). The problem will fade away. (harr harr!)
Maybe I'm just a zombie who stares at electronic screens too long, but I've never felt sick playing any game (well playing Wipeout did give me butterflies on that first dip when I got my Playstation -- wasn't used to the amazing graphics at the time). The skulk view rotation, biting, etc never distracted me. The loud clanking of biting structures did though...
I don't mind the changes to make it easier on other players. I'm glad you guys are sensitive to these types of issues. The only thing I am is R/G colorblind (you artists might not be). For me its often hard to discern my position on the map.
<!--quoteo(post=1860351:date=Jul 14 2011, 12:24 AM:name=Josh86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh86 @ Jul 14 2011, 12:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Man, all you nauseous nerds...
Maybe I'm just a zombie who stares at electronic screens too long, but I've never felt sick playing any game (well playing Wipeout did give me butterflies on that first dip when I got my Playstation -- wasn't used to the amazing graphics at the time). The skulk view rotation, biting, etc never distracted me. The loud clanking of biting structures did though...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are not the sort of problems an individual can change about himself. Its the exact same thing as people who get sea sick/ car sick. whatever
The only other thing people can do is simply not buy the game. This will create problems for the developers since they need to make the sales.
To be honest with you i didnt buy the left for dead series or halflife2 because of the field of view issues. (but halflife made an option to change the fov) Counter strike fov was 90 - I was able to play for countless amount of hours and not get sick. halflife2 and left for dead had a fov of about 60 - 70. Its designed this way to give players a more detailed image of characters (like when theyre talking you see their mouth move) and other things.
The lower the field of the view, the more it exaggerates camera movement.
It's not as balanced as NS1, but it's a LOT better than 179.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are really balancing the game by using this stats? I'm not sure if this is the right way! What is if the experienced players prefere aliens and the less experienced the marines? However, I don't think this is an adequate way to balance the game...
<!--quoteo(post=1860273:date=Jul 13 2011, 01:53 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 13 2011, 01:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, since I've seen all the +1s in this thread regarding this lighting change. What happened there was a change had been made to try out a desaturated red lighting, because it was thought to be too red. This resulted in a weird pinkish brown lighting, and a bunch of us around the office felt this didn't work very well, and that the saturated red felt more like emergency lighting and more dangerous.
The changes were reverted to put the old red back, without realizing that there was also the fading to black that had been put in as well. Removing the fading was just an unintentional byproduct of putting the red back in, and we'll be sorting this out, hopefully for the next patch.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Great news!
<!--quoteo(post=1860381:date=Jul 13 2011, 03:09 PM:name=korvo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (korvo @ Jul 13 2011, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are really balancing the game by using this stats? I'm not sure if this is the right way! What is if the experienced players prefere aliens and the less experienced the marines? However, I don't think this is an adequate way to balance the game...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, we are not currently using those stats to balance the game. Though, we are working on getting the stats to be much more robust in the information provided (average # of players in a match, types of kills, etc.) to be used along with other feedback for consideration when balancing the game.
Stats are certainly not the only thing to look at, but if the amount of data is large enough to get a good average from, it can certainly provide us with non biased information, as opposed to just hearing a bunch of people who like to play as marines complaining about the aliens being too OP, as an example.
<!--quoteo(post=1860273:date=Jul 13 2011, 06:53 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 13 2011, 06:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, since I've seen all the +1s in this thread regarding this lighting change. What happened there was a change had been made to try out a desaturated red lighting, because it was thought to be too red. This resulted in a weird pinkish brown lighting, and a bunch of us around the office felt this didn't work very well, and that the saturated red felt more like emergency lighting and more dangerous.
The changes were reverted to put the old red back, without realizing that there was also the fading to black that had been put in as well. Removing the fading was just an unintentional byproduct of putting the red back in, and we'll be sorting this out, hopefully for the next patch.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It still does fade to black on my game.
I didn't realise you had taken that out, it certainly doesn't seem to be consistent if you have.
I prefer the less red and the fade to black, at the moment it's really red but still fades to black.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Balance is broken, aliens are too weak<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> After playing 180 some more, I don't think it's all that bad anymore.
How about if aliens could select their spawn hive - as an alternative to being able to jump between hives as known from NS1. (As if UWE hadn't already thought about that one, eh?)
As far as the lighting goes, I bet it's impossible to please more than 2 out of 3 people. I won't be the other one though, promise.
There is one major bug that I couldn't find anywhere on getsatisfaction or these forums that prevents alien cyst play from going like it's supposed to, and that's the commander lock up bug. It's when you enter a hive or command post full of energy and you can't do squat: the commander controls are disabled and you may have to relog multiple times before gaining control.
This is important because I envision the alien hives to be entered for about 15 seconds by regular players happening by, spamming drifters and pustules, with a designated player placing drifters and updating crags - just maintenance and quick reaction to the playing field instead of being a genuine commander.
However, you can spend upwards of five minutes on pustule placement due to the bug. That's why people are complaining about pustules dying too easily, because over the long term the bug prevents good upkeep of cyst extensions.
People have told me that this is a known bug, but I can't find any mention of this serious issue anywhere. I've created a <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/commander_controls_lock_up_stop_responding" target="_blank">Get Satisfaction</a> report.
<!--quoteo(post=1859633:date=Jul 11 2011, 06:49 PM:name=Odda2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Odda2k @ Jul 11 2011, 06:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This. So very much this. It's a bit of a mixed feeling really. I like the feel of "emergency lighting"the red light gives, but the pitch black gave a very frantic "fear like" feeling. Marines forced to turn on flashlights and you could feel the tension that was going on when a squad moved in to a dark area with flashlights flickering all over the place.
The idea you mentioned above sort of reminds me of SAW(some number, can't remember), where the "guy to be murdered" was using his camera blitz to light a room. That sudden flash then black for 10-15 seconds, and you hear the recharge of the blitz untill the next flash. Come to think of it, that would be an awesome sound effect in game as well. <i>Having the destroyed power node emit a "charging" and buzzing sound, then a discharge sound once it attempted to light the room then back to black and a new recharge.</i>
As for the cysts, someone mentioned earlier an idea I liked a lot. Having the older cysts "grow" into the infestation, newer ones clearly visible on the ground like they are now. The older the cyst is, the more "ingrown" it would become. This would make it harder for a marine to locate the main cysts and destroy it single handedly. The marines would <b>NOT</b> get the mouse-over HUD indicating that they were aiming at a cyst OFC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with all this, It also gives the feeling of control for aliens, when I first began to play NS2 I was quite disappointed at how red the place went when power was out as I was expecting it to go pitch black from no power, I can understand now that it was probably not feasable due to alien vision. But you would have thought aliens would have cat like vision where they were still able to see through pitch black areas. I would have expected aliens vision to be interchangeable with the environment being in a black/white appearance (with alien structures still showing in colour) in pitch black and then when in lighting full colour.
When I think of it, another game did this I think, was it avp? I don't know.. But I remember something in another game similar and it made it much more fun. Having night vision and a pitch black world when there's no power (maybe fade to red every 10 seconds or more) would be cooler, it would encourage marines to use that funky flashlight more and create a more dangerous feeling atmosphere.
I will also agree with overgrowing the cysts to make them harder to locate, it currently appears too easy for a solo marine to kill off cysts and really make it hard for the commander to do much.
Also I miss gorges not being able to build crags :( I feel alot less important now that I cant build a formidable defense for the hive, I can't expect the comm to be ready to hand me a crag every time I build up a hive defense point. This makes it harder to assist in fortifying multiple hives and last night I ended up building up a hydra point, running all the way back to the second hive and sending drifters over to them and building crags as the comm was too busy trying to attend to the other hives and providing support to areas under threat. This is extremely time consuming and not a very good tactical approach, but it was the only way to do it.
I really think gorges need the ability to build crags to be considered a much more valuable support class. Its nice dropping the cysts as it does help to create areas for me to build, but I still require the comm to drop a landline here and there which in turn causes the comm to be briefly distracted from more important matters like identifying threats near the hive or upgrading etc. Aliens also run back to the hive to heal over the gorge (particularly fades) as that is the only place crags ever seems to be. This creates an unfortunate situation where the hydra fortifications are left vulnerable to attack because there is no crags near them to make them a higher threat so marines just burn them down fairly quickly and continue on their merry way to the hive.
I would not expect a comm to be watching over my gorge when building hydra fortifications and building a crag near them, I also would not expect the comm to place a crag in a tactical location to avoid it being destroyed quickly. I would have expected a gorge to do specifically these tasks as a support role :(
Comments
The devs are already making balance changes all the time and testing new stuff.
but why halt the production of new features and get perfect balance just to break it all again when they implement something new? just because you make the current game balanced doesn't mean those features will be balanced next patch, minor things can have unforeseen side effects.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I agree. Please make melee attack animation slower. Rapid shaking should be reserved for taking damage, so the two are clearly distinguishable.
Also, the red damage indicator for receiving damage is too small. I recall the damage indicators are a lot large in other FPS games.
but why halt the production of new features and get perfect balance just to break it all again when they implement something new? just because you make the current game balanced doesn't mean those features will be balanced next patch, minor things can have unforeseen side effects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well yeah, of course. It will be unbalanced repeatedly in some aspects. But there will always be marine vs skulk early gameplay, among other things. Doesn't hurt to get to work on that. And I guarantee you they are not halting any major features or performance fixes in order to balance.
I know they don't, but it sounded on you like you wanted them to just balance the game before continuing, I might have misunderstood you.
changing numbers around for obvious fixes don't take much time but gives a better game experience is all good, they do this already (the shotgun cost decrease was a temp fix against the alien domination).
and even things like early marine vs skulk (imo its been fine the latest builds) can change, like when they implemented the recent slow on hit. or less obvious things like minimap scouting for nodes.
Its ok that the game need balance but not KILLING THE GAMEPLAY , i donot want play as fade hiting that slow and whit that energy joke , i donth want try to kill some build and only hit 6 times , doing a joke damage same as i was skulk. And lerk , oh wow lerks.... You need be close like if u want suck rines balls , and they can shoot u 100m away , primary attack totally indeed!
Gonna be funny see ppl crying "ONOS IS OVER" , of course onos is over thats the point.
Then I want see Onos (slowmob) + on Flames = epic fail
Its ok that the game need balance but not KILLING THE GAMEPLAY , i donot want play as fade hiting that slow and whit that energy joke , i donth want try to kill some build and only hit 6 times , doing a ###### damage same as i was skulk , and lerk , oh wow lerks.... You need be close like if u want suck rines balls , and they can shoot u 100m away , primary attack totally indeed!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the gameplay, sorry to see you don't.
I play mostly aliens, and the only thing that's lacking is a siege breaker, the role of the former fade.
I play mostly aliens, and the only thing that's lacking is a siege breaker, the role of the former fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And whats the point about doing the same build damage as skulk as fade?
Skulk maybe low dmg but infinite bite energy , fade more dmg but only 6 hit , its a joke. whats the point there?
At this stage, the best thing for the development is to focus our efforts are getting the core game working well. That includes better performance, basic balance, better defined player roles and abilities, and better commander/player interaction. If the basic foundation is not working well yet, it just doesn't make sense to add the 3rd tech tier (Onos, exos, jetpacks, etc.) as that just introduces a lot of new issues, bugs, balance problems and general gameplay intricacies that make it much more difficult to sort out what is working or not working with the core game.
We aren't looking for perfect balance, and we are thinking ahead to the 3rd tech tier when we make changes, but it makes sense to sort out some of the large imbalances at this stage, while continuing to add features to the core gameplay.
--Cory
Good call. We went ahead and removed this for attacking structures, since its such a repeated motion. Should be in the next patch.
--Cory
actually playing (Europe = few servers, few players, lousy ping), I just wan't to see the core features in place
(onos, jetpack, exos (perhaps the old unimplemented NS1 nuke(?)) before I dive into it. If I don't like the balance once the game is
released I'm just going to LUA the cr@p out of it on my server anyway :)
Keep up the good work UW!
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you Cory! :D
Issues I feel the current marine arsenal faces. Sure the marine arsenal is incomplete. But I feel there are some major problems with how the current system is set up.
The Assault Rifle is essentially the lmg. The lmg is the least favored gun in ns1, it is always swapped out for a better gun by the end of the game. The small firing zone on the gun and low damage output makes it so pinpoint accuracy is required to kill any creature, and the farther the game progresses, the more the gun is turning useless. The hmg fixes these problems, but due to not wanting to make the lmg/assault rifle obsolete by mid-game, the hmg was removed.
The Shotgun is the one gun kills all. If it bleeds, it probably already met your shotgun. If that secondary attack with the long distance shotgun shot comes in, you won't need any other gun. The gun is too affordable and powerful, and is easy to obtain early in the game. Late players coming in with 25 res means that there will be shotguns abundant for the entire game once it's researched. Without the heavy machine gun, the shotgun is the only weapons choice people make.
Grenade launcher attachment. Two functions, lob grenades and shoot players. Both of which it isn't great at. And it makes the 20 res you spent feel wasted. The shooting functions the same as the lmg/assault rifle and the gl attachment is worse than the original grenade launcher. The grenades you lob bounce like super balls which makes them hard to use, and slow firing rate and grenade count is hardly useful when it's compared to the original gl. The gl attachment might be worth it if the explode on surface returned. Currently, it is hardly used. And the arcs and point blank shotguns will make these obsolete in structure clearance.
Flamethrower. Obsolete since cysts were implemented. Clears infestation, but anything else can shoot cysts to clear infestation faster. Only role left is setting players ablaze for dot's and energy slowdowns. Unfortunately, it's an assist weapon. And the player you assisted got the res for kill. With the highest cost and the lowest income, it's generally avoided.
With all this going for it, the shotgun could just be the default weapon. As the first thing someone does when they join a game or respawn, is buy a shotgun.
Ok, since I've seen all the +1s in this thread regarding this lighting change. What happened there was a change had been made to try out a desaturated red lighting, because it was thought to be too red. This resulted in a weird pinkish brown lighting, and a bunch of us around the office felt this didn't work very well, and that the saturated red felt more like emergency lighting and more dangerous.
The changes were reverted to put the old red back, without realizing that there was also the fading to black that had been put in as well. Removing the fading was just an unintentional byproduct of putting the red back in, and we'll be sorting this out, hopefully for the next patch.
--Cory
Skulk maybe low dmg but infinite bite energy , fade more dmg but only 6 hit , its a joke. whats the point there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point is that fade is not supposed to be a siege weapon.. it's supposed to excel at surprise attacks, taking out 1-2 marines and disappear.
The problem is not that the fade is bad, the problem is that the aliens lost all the good siege weapons. (the previously ridiculous fade, and the range of the lerk). but once any of the following happens: onos is in, bilebomb reworked, bombard implemented or turrets tweaked (they are doing this now). The problem will fade away. (harr harr!)
Maybe I'm just a zombie who stares at electronic screens too long, but I've never felt sick playing any game (well playing Wipeout did give me butterflies on that first dip when I got my Playstation -- wasn't used to the amazing graphics at the time). The skulk view rotation, biting, etc never distracted me. The loud clanking of biting structures did though...
I don't mind the changes to make it easier on other players. I'm glad you guys are sensitive to these types of issues. The only thing I am is R/G colorblind (you artists might not be). For me its often hard to discern my position on the map.
Maybe I'm just a zombie who stares at electronic screens too long, but I've never felt sick playing any game (well playing Wipeout did give me butterflies on that first dip when I got my Playstation -- wasn't used to the amazing graphics at the time). The skulk view rotation, biting, etc never distracted me. The loud clanking of biting structures did though...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are not the sort of problems an individual can change about himself. Its the exact same thing as people who get sea sick/ car sick. whatever
The only other thing people can do is simply not buy the game. This will create problems for the developers since they need to make the sales.
To be honest with you i didnt buy the left for dead series or halflife2 because of the field of view issues. (but halflife made an option to change the fov)
Counter strike fov was 90 - I was able to play for countless amount of hours and not get sick.
halflife2 and left for dead had a fov of about 60 - 70. Its designed this way to give players a more detailed image of characters (like when theyre talking you see their mouth move) and other things.
The lower the field of the view, the more it exaggerates camera movement.
<a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=180" target="_blank">http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/disp...ats?version=180</a>
It's not as balanced as NS1, but it's a LOT better than 179.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are really balancing the game by using this stats? I'm not sure if this is the right way! What is if the experienced players prefere aliens and the less experienced the marines? However, I don't think this is an adequate way to balance the game...
The changes were reverted to put the old red back, without realizing that there was also the fading to black that had been put in as well. Removing the fading was just an unintentional byproduct of putting the red back in, and we'll be sorting this out, hopefully for the next patch.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great news!
No, we are not currently using those stats to balance the game. Though, we are working on getting the stats to be much more robust in the information provided (average # of players in a match, types of kills, etc.) to be used along with other feedback for consideration when balancing the game.
Stats are certainly not the only thing to look at, but if the amount of data is large enough to get a good average from, it can certainly provide us with non biased information, as opposed to just hearing a bunch of people who like to play as marines complaining about the aliens being too OP, as an example.
--Cory
The changes were reverted to put the old red back, without realizing that there was also the fading to black that had been put in as well. Removing the fading was just an unintentional byproduct of putting the red back in, and we'll be sorting this out, hopefully for the next patch.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It still does fade to black on my game.
I didn't realise you had taken that out, it certainly doesn't seem to be consistent if you have.
I prefer the less red and the fade to black, at the moment it's really red but still fades to black.
After playing 180 some more, I don't think it's all that bad anymore.
How about if aliens could select their spawn hive - as an alternative to being able to jump between hives as known from NS1.
(As if UWE hadn't already thought about that one, eh?)
As far as the lighting goes, I bet it's impossible to please more than 2 out of 3 people. I won't be the other one though, promise.
This is important because I envision the alien hives to be entered for about 15 seconds by regular players happening by, spamming drifters and pustules, with a designated player placing drifters and updating crags - just maintenance and quick reaction to the playing field instead of being a genuine commander.
However, you can spend upwards of five minutes on pustule placement due to the bug. That's why people are complaining about pustules dying too easily, because over the long term the bug prevents good upkeep of cyst extensions.
People have told me that this is a known bug, but I can't find any mention of this serious issue anywhere. I've created a <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/commander_controls_lock_up_stop_responding" target="_blank">Get Satisfaction</a> report.
It's a bit of a mixed feeling really. I like the feel of "emergency lighting"the red light gives, but the pitch black gave a very frantic "fear like" feeling. Marines forced to turn on flashlights and you could feel the tension that was going on when a squad moved in to a dark area with flashlights flickering all over the place.
The idea you mentioned above sort of reminds me of SAW(some number, can't remember), where the "guy to be murdered" was using his camera blitz to light a room. That sudden flash then black for 10-15 seconds, and you hear the recharge of the blitz untill the next flash.
Come to think of it, that would be an awesome sound effect in game as well. <i>Having the destroyed power node emit a "charging" and buzzing sound, then a discharge sound once it attempted to light the room then back to black and a new recharge.</i>
As for the cysts, someone mentioned earlier an idea I liked a lot. Having the older cysts "grow" into the infestation, newer ones clearly visible on the ground like they are now. The older the cyst is, the more "ingrown" it would become. This would make it harder for a marine to locate the main cysts and destroy it single handedly.
The marines would <b>NOT</b> get the mouse-over HUD indicating that they were aiming at a cyst OFC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with all this, It also gives the feeling of control for aliens, when I first began to play NS2 I was quite disappointed at how red the place went when power was out as I was expecting it to go pitch black from no power, I can understand now that it was probably not feasable due to alien vision. But you would have thought aliens would have cat like vision where they were still able to see through pitch black areas. I would have expected aliens vision to be interchangeable with the environment being in a black/white appearance (with alien structures still showing in colour) in pitch black and then when in lighting full colour.
When I think of it, another game did this I think, was it avp? I don't know.. But I remember something in another game similar and it made it much more fun. Having night vision and a pitch black world when there's no power (maybe fade to red every 10 seconds or more) would be cooler, it would encourage marines to use that funky flashlight more and create a more dangerous feeling atmosphere.
I will also agree with overgrowing the cysts to make them harder to locate, it currently appears too easy for a solo marine to kill off cysts and really make it hard for the commander to do much.
Also I miss gorges not being able to build crags :( I feel alot less important now that I cant build a formidable defense for the hive, I can't expect the comm to be ready to hand me a crag every time I build up a hive defense point. This makes it harder to assist in fortifying multiple hives and last night I ended up building up a hydra point, running all the way back to the second hive and sending drifters over to them and building crags as the comm was too busy trying to attend to the other hives and providing support to areas under threat. This is extremely time consuming and not a very good tactical approach, but it was the only way to do it.
I really think gorges need the ability to build crags to be considered a much more valuable support class. Its nice dropping the cysts as it does help to create areas for me to build, but I still require the comm to drop a landline here and there which in turn causes the comm to be briefly distracted from more important matters like identifying threats near the hive or upgrading etc. Aliens also run back to the hive to heal over the gorge (particularly fades) as that is the only place crags ever seems to be. This creates an unfortunate situation where the hydra fortifications are left vulnerable to attack because there is no crags near them to make them a higher threat so marines just burn them down fairly quickly and continue on their merry way to the hive.
I would not expect a comm to be watching over my gorge when building hydra fortifications and building a crag near them, I also would not expect the comm to place a crag in a tactical location to avoid it being destroyed quickly. I would have expected a gorge to do specifically these tasks as a support role :(