<!--quoteo(post=1882796:date=Oct 31 2011, 08:12 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Oct 31 2011, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree. Not subtle at all. While the effect is very cool indeed, I almost get motion sickness from just watching the video. It <i>must</i> be alot more subtle imo, but great idea none the less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1882796:date=Oct 31 2011, 02:12 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Oct 31 2011, 02:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree. Not subtle at all. While the effect is very cool indeed, I almost get motion sickness from just watching the video. It <i>must</i> be alot more subtle imo, but great idea none the less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? I just watched it two more times in fullscreen 720p (just as I had the first time) and I can't imagine how it could cause anyone motion sickness, unless flying the Lerk at all would cause motion sickness. It's not like the camera is banking severely. But to each his own I guess... Maybe they can at least make it an option to turn on or off.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
Found a workaround to the camera rotation around y-axis bug, thanks to Focused Wolf's report! <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112990&st=0&p=1837513&#entry1837513" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....p;#entry1837513</a>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?09k4bq57ui867dg" target="_blank">Download Lerk Mod v2.6</a><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I would remove the strafe camera roll, i usually strafe in the opposite direction while flying around corners... (so i can pre-aim, and see more)
While it looks and behaves correct flying/looking forward + stafe, we shouldn't forget we use a combination of the mouse and the strafe keys, so the current implementation rolls the lerk into the wrong direction. (for me at least, dunno if im the only one flying like this with your mod)
Again: Corner to the right, i press left strafe and aim to the right to fly around the corner => Lerk rolls into the wrong direction.
Inverting it doesnt solve the problem, cant think of a solution other than just removing it :P
Edit: Hope you understand what i mean, i could make a video if you want...
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1883188:date=Nov 1 2011, 08:51 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 1 2011, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883188"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would remove the strafe camera roll, i usually strafe in the opposite direction while flying around corners... (so i can pre-aim, and see more)
While it looks and behaves correct flying/looking forward + stafe, we shouldn't forget we use a combination of the mouse and the strafe keys, so the current implementation rolls the lerk into the wrong direction. (for me at least, dunno if im the only one flying like this with your mod)
Again: Corner to the right, i press left strafe and aim to the right to fly around the corner => Lerk rolls into the wrong direction.
Inverting it doesnt solve the problem, cant think of a solution other than just removing it :P
Edit: Hope you understand what i mean, i could make a video if you want...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for your feedback Koruyo.
Since the Lerk doesn't have a rudder like an aircraft, I imagine it would adjust its wing tips to control side movement, hence I implemented the roll that way.
Although I can see "drifting"/sliding around corners can be beneficial, it can stall gliding. That happens when camera angle diverges from velocity direction, especially if you turn too quickly. That is intentional, as otherwise the Lerk could be ridiculous hard to hit with its ability to change direction so quickly. Lastly, it also doesn't feel realistic. After all, you can always flap to accelerate in your desired direction.
Maybe I should remove the stacking camera roll effect, when strafing and turning simultaneously.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1883192:date=Nov 1 2011, 10:28 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 1 2011, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Made a paint illustration what i mean, so everybody understands it :P
At least i feel this is strange...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I see what you mean. If you turn quickly, you might notice the roll is actually in the right direction. However, you are more likely too busy regaining altitude, as you start falling. :P
But because the roll recovery rate after the turn is so fast (to reduce the chances of motion sickness), and that the opposite roll motions cancel out, you don't notice the turning roll.
(Check out how quickly the Goshawk rolls in the video below, after 1:42.)
I'll reduce the lateral movement (strafing) roll, as it does appear to be slightly exaggerated.
Looks good, it's a bit too subtle maybe. The effect is also probably frame rate dependent, because there is not dt (=1/fps) in the integration steps, the dt is stored in input.time but I don't know how to get it.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
Version 2.7 <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?18lwlc7uxqch5or" target="_blank">Download</a> Changelog: - Camera tilt effect is now in a seperate file (Lerk_Client.lua, which is heavily based on Brian's Skulk_Client code). - Reduced Lerk max speed slightly (from 13 to 12) - Reduced swoop acceleration to 24 (same as a marine's).
It all works pretty good and the camera tilt feels very good and natural... A thing to mention is the speed of gaining height... Just press your spacebar multiple times while being in crevice and see what i mean: you'll be at the level ceiling in almost half a second.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1883845:date=Nov 5 2011, 08:49 AM:name=basti1337)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basti1337 @ Nov 5 2011, 08:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It all works pretty good and the camera tilt feels very good and natural... A thing to mention is the speed of gaining height... Just press your spacebar multiple times while being in crevice and see what i mean: you'll be at the level ceiling in almost half a second.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point! I have capped upward speed to the same as current maximum speed.
download <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?11l7jqgy87c0m52" target="_blank">Lerk Mod 2.8</a>
I'm loving your Lerk changes. Do you mind if I incorporate them into the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course you can, Charlie! Just remember that my version was based on build 187 or 188.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
I guess the testers found the changes in my last version too drastic, so the majority of the @changes were not included.
I've made a few small modifications based on build 191. Fingers crossed they get approved for "Gorilla".
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?ttbib54t0139agh" target="_blank">Download Lerk flight mod for Build 191 (v2)</a>
Major Changes: <ul><li>(Bug fix) Looking straight down vertically during free-vertical-look gliding (holding jump key only) no longer flies the Lerk straight down.</li><li>(Bug fix) Facing downward during free-vertical-look no longer increases air speed.</li><li>(Bug fix) Reduced initial maximum air speed.</li><li>Significantly reduced the air friction when flapping sideways and backwards.</li><li>Jumping while gliding (without any direction key) generates upward force and temporarily allows free look.</li><li>Modified the walk key (Shift) behaviour when gliding. It no longer limits flight speed similar to walking. Instead, it now increases applies air friction when held down.</li><li>Increased air movement control (when not gliding).</li><li>Removed vertical air acceleration.</li><li>Increased lateral gliding speed (when holding Forward+Left/Right).</li></ul>
Are you sure there are genuine issues with the new lerk flight model, or is it simply a case of players not yet being acclimated to the new lerk flight model?
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1894418:date=Jan 14 2012, 08:35 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 14 2012, 08:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you sure there are genuine issues with the new lerk flight model, or is it simply a case of players not yet being acclimated to the new lerk flight model?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I mainly want to address a few bugs/inconsistencies, as well as improving Lerk's maneuverability, which has been stifled by the excessive air friction which I added a few months ago.
I hope the tests will find this new version to be more agreeable.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1895646:date=Jan 18 2012, 04:58 PM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Jan 18 2012, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->iMO that is a bad fix. Going down by looking down while gliding is very important do dodge the marine fire or to drop very fast in crev.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm still working on allowing the use of (Crouch) key to drop altitude during a glide.
To drop down, you can look down and flap downward while holding the Forward key, or stop gliding (release Jump) and hold Crouch key briefly.
Gliding without the Forward keys was designed to hold altitude, allowing easy aiming with spikes.
I am just getting scared about another key to press. In a combat I use all WASD keys plus the spacebar to get a unpredictable movement but max control, using all 5 fingers of my left hand to do the same as with 4 plus mouse. Don't know if this is good from an ergonomical side of gameplay.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1895798:date=Jan 19 2012, 08:15 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Jan 19 2012, 08:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895798"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am just getting scared about another key to press. In a combat I use all WASD keys plus the spacebar to get a unpredictable movement but max control, using all 5 fingers of my left hand to do the same as with 4 plus mouse. Don't know if this is good from an ergonomical side of gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can see that being a problem, so I won't be adding universal Crouch-to-dive.
The aim of my design was to keep Lerk control simple, so each action would translate to a specific movement. In your scenario, since you're looking downward anyway, you only need to press forward + hold jump to dive, or flap a few times to accelerate.
Comments
While the effect is very cool indeed, I almost get motion sickness from just watching the video.
It <i>must</i> be alot more subtle imo, but great idea none the less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh Swalk, never played a flight simulator? ;)
Aaand now I'm hungry =/
While the effect is very cool indeed, I almost get motion sickness from just watching the video.
It <i>must</i> be alot more subtle imo, but great idea none the less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? I just watched it two more times in fullscreen 720p (just as I had the first time) and I can't imagine how it could cause anyone motion sickness, unless flying the Lerk at all would cause motion sickness. It's not like the camera is banking severely. But to each his own I guess... Maybe they can at least make it an option to turn on or off.
Strafing now also rolls the view camera.
You can now use the console command "lerk_view_tilt" to switch the view rotation on/off.
Hope you guys like it!
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?lmj8qg3936a3q75" target="_blank">Download Lerk Mod v2.5</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112990&st=0&p=1837513&#entry1837513" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....p;#entry1837513</a>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?09k4bq57ui867dg" target="_blank">Download Lerk Mod v2.6</a><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
While it looks and behaves correct flying/looking forward + stafe, we shouldn't forget we use a combination of the mouse and the strafe keys, so the current implementation rolls the lerk into the wrong direction. (for me at least, dunno if im the only one flying like this with your mod)
Again: Corner to the right, i press left strafe and aim to the right to fly around the corner => Lerk rolls into the wrong direction.
Inverting it doesnt solve the problem, cant think of a solution other than just removing it :P
Edit: Hope you understand what i mean, i could make a video if you want...
While it looks and behaves correct flying/looking forward + stafe, we shouldn't forget we use a combination of the mouse and the strafe keys, so the current implementation rolls the lerk into the wrong direction. (for me at least, dunno if im the only one flying like this with your mod)
Again: Corner to the right, i press left strafe and aim to the right to fly around the corner => Lerk rolls into the wrong direction.
Inverting it doesnt solve the problem, cant think of a solution other than just removing it :P
Edit: Hope you understand what i mean, i could make a video if you want...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for your feedback Koruyo.
Since the Lerk doesn't have a rudder like an aircraft, I imagine it would adjust its wing tips to control side movement, hence I implemented the roll that way.
Although I can see "drifting"/sliding around corners can be beneficial, it can stall gliding. That happens when camera angle diverges from velocity direction, especially if you turn too quickly. That is intentional, as otherwise the Lerk could be ridiculous hard to hit with its ability to change direction so quickly. Lastly, it also doesn't feel realistic. After all, you can always flap to accelerate in your desired direction.
Maybe I should remove the stacking camera roll effect, when strafing and turning simultaneously.
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12784365/lerkdrift.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
At least i feel this is strange...
At least i feel this is strange...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see what you mean. If you turn quickly, you might notice the roll is actually in the right direction. However, you are more likely too busy regaining altitude, as you start falling. :P
But because the roll recovery rate after the turn is so fast (to reduce the chances of motion sickness), and that the opposite roll motions cancel out, you don't notice the turning roll.
(Check out how quickly the Goshawk rolls in the video below, after 1:42.)
I'll reduce the lateral movement (strafing) roll, as it does appear to be slightly exaggerated.
<div align='center'><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p-_RHRAzUHM#t=102s"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p-_RHRAzUHM#t=102s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center></div>
Edit : this bird is amazing !
Changelog:
- Camera tilt effect is now in a seperate file (Lerk_Client.lua, which is heavily based on Brian's Skulk_Client code).
- Reduced Lerk max speed slightly (from 13 to 12)
- Reduced swoop acceleration to 24 (same as a marine's).
Enjoy!
A thing to mention is the speed of gaining height... Just press your spacebar multiple times while being in crevice and see what i mean: you'll be at the level ceiling in almost half a second.
A thing to mention is the speed of gaining height... Just press your spacebar multiple times while being in crevice and see what i mean: you'll be at the level ceiling in almost half a second.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point! I have capped upward speed to the same as current maximum speed.
download <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?11l7jqgy87c0m52" target="_blank">Lerk Mod 2.8</a>
- tweaked camera tilt
I'm loving your Lerk changes. Do you mind if I incorporate them into the game?
I'm loving your Lerk changes. Do you mind if I incorporate them into the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course you can, Charlie! Just remember that my version was based on build 187 or 188.
Also Coming Soon: Drunken Onos mod. :P
I've made a few small modifications based on build 191. Fingers crossed they get approved for "Gorilla".
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?ttbib54t0139agh" target="_blank">Download Lerk flight mod for Build 191 (v2)</a>
Major Changes:
<ul><li>(Bug fix) Looking straight down vertically during free-vertical-look gliding (holding jump key only) no longer flies the Lerk straight down.</li><li>(Bug fix) Facing downward during free-vertical-look no longer increases air speed.</li><li>(Bug fix) Reduced initial maximum air speed.</li><li>Significantly reduced the air friction when flapping sideways and backwards.</li><li>Jumping while gliding (without any direction key) generates upward force and temporarily allows free look.</li><li>Modified the walk key (Shift) behaviour when gliding. It no longer limits flight speed similar to walking. Instead, it now increases applies air friction when held down.</li><li>Increased air movement control (when not gliding).</li><li>Removed vertical air acceleration.</li><li>Increased lateral gliding speed (when holding Forward+Left/Right).</li></ul>
I mainly want to address a few bugs/inconsistencies, as well as improving Lerk's maneuverability, which has been stifled by the excessive air friction which I added a few months ago.
I hope the tests will find this new version to be more agreeable.
iMO that is a bad fix. Going down by looking down while gliding is very important do dodge the marine fire or to drop very fast in crev.
I'm still working on allowing the use of (Crouch) key to drop altitude during a glide.
To drop down, you can look down and flap downward while holding the Forward key, or stop gliding (release Jump) and hold Crouch key briefly.
Gliding without the Forward keys was designed to hold altitude, allowing easy aiming with spikes.
I can see that being a problem, so I won't be adding universal Crouch-to-dive.
The aim of my design was to keep Lerk control simple, so each action would translate to a specific movement. In your scenario, since you're looking downward anyway, you only need to press forward + hold jump to dive, or flap a few times to accelerate.
Link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113997&view=findpost&p=1824885" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1824885</a>
Stay tuned for video.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T7FxJiAHMlY"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T7FxJiAHMlY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>