I'm really happy with the current flamethrower
Techercizer
7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
The flamethrower might be my favorite part of NS2 as of the latest build. Whether it's completely shutting down Kharaa Comm expansion by trimming back weeds, cutting off a Fade's escape route and roasting him alive, or just answering your commander's question of "Holy crap, 4 Skulks in crossroads, can you handle them!?" with "What Skulks?", the flamethrower brings fun times for everyone who doesn't hatch from an egg.
I don't have any trouble killing flamethrower marines as Kharaa either (unless they're supported by their 3-5 best friends in the whole wide world, in which case the smart thing to do is not to rush in like an idiot), so the weapon seems pretty balanced to me. The only thing I'd change is for clearing infestation to be less ammo-intensive, but that's a complaint that's already well known.
What are your opinions on the Flamethrower?
I don't have any trouble killing flamethrower marines as Kharaa either (unless they're supported by their 3-5 best friends in the whole wide world, in which case the smart thing to do is not to rush in like an idiot), so the weapon seems pretty balanced to me. The only thing I'd change is for clearing infestation to be less ammo-intensive, but that's a complaint that's already well known.
What are your opinions on the Flamethrower?
Comments
I think Summit being a larger maps negates a lot of the advantages FT had in the tight rooms and hallways of Rockdown. Plus better performance means that players can hit more consistently ...and the wild spray and pray flame dances no longer has the advantage it did in prior builds.
You can't go 1v1 with a fade (not even a gorge ) like you can with a shotgun. Its more of a support weapon now.
Though I'd rather have 2 shotguns and a FT in a squad..than just 3 shotguns. You can still fry skulks easily, but now skulks have a chance of taking you down with them.
Its definitely improved, but I'd like to see more utility. Better interaction with infestation. Less spray and pray. More focused flame bursts acting as area denial.
1) Fix the flamethrower through the wall problem (being worked on)
2) Aliens and structures stay on fire far too long. Limit them to 5 sec burn time max. A lerk lit on fire and not close to a hive will die even if hit for only 1/10 of a sec because he stays on fire for 50 secs and can't fly to the hive fast enough. Or a fade wastes time sitting at a hive waiting for the flames to go out. This is the biggest issue with the FT right now.
3) Drastically reduce infestation hit points. It takes 2 entire clips (3 clips if a crag is nearby) to kill an infestation patch which is just ridiculous. That means a marine can only kill 2 patches before needing to get more ammo. The patches are commonly replaced before the marine comes back.
4) Make the ammo counter function
5) Fix the reload animation (it doesn't always play)
6) Secondary napalm fire mode that ignites any alien touching the flaming puddle for a short time, but uses a lot of ammo.
Not sure what a napalm fire mode feels or looks like but I'd love to have something like in the ballistic weapons mod for UT2004.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d27VZze5GA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d27VZze5GA</a>
UWE could also check out the other weapons these guys have made, because they seriously have a vivid imagination when it comes to way of killing an opponent.
But I like roasting hives through walls :)
Though, I must admit the crippling feature of the flamethrower does give it a good niche. However, it does have quite a few noticeable and serious bugs that really need to be fixed (as noted by Quovatis).
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d27VZze5GA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d27VZze5GA</a>
UWE could also check out the other weapons these guys have made, because they seriously have a vivid imagination when it comes to way of killing an opponent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Loved the guy rocketing into the air and exploding once his tank was shot at.
I like that "gas" alt attack and then igniting it in with primary attack. It would be an excellent way to give marines area denial in NS2.
Technically, as far as I know, modern flamethrower doesn't do that. As it contains two seperated liquids that needs to be mixed togther properly before becoming ignitable. So puncher a hole in the tank isn't gonna cause any explosion like thay would have you believe in popular movies and video games.
Maybe umbra should have a flame smothering effect, as it already does basically replace the oxygen with this thick smoke that can slow bullets.
Cut damage against skulks and lerks, maybe buff damage slightly against fades and buildings.
I generally go for shotguns over flamers as flamers aren't really worth the cost at the moment, unless you really need to kill lots of skulks.
Cut damage against skulks and lerks, maybe buff damage slightly against fades and buildings.
I generally go for shotguns over flamers as flamers aren't really worth the cost at the moment, unless you really need to kill lots of skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imho, the flamethrower is really the only counter towards lerks and fades. They're both really fast critters that are really hard to hit with anything. Flamers kinda should be good against them.
Skulks are just low tier and there is little you can do about that. It's like complaining about how easily zerglings die. It's just the natural order of things. Plus flamers are great for clearing out vents.
What is really needed is an onos to charge in and punt flamers out of the room. Course that's coming eventually, so it's covered.
<!--quoteo(post=1854863:date=Jun 21 2011, 01:15 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jun 21 2011, 01:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Should be a slower energy regeneration than completely cutting it off. You get peppered once and if no gorge is around you're waiting like 6 seconds before you can do anything again. Get hit by a flamethrower in a turret infested base and the other guys don't even need to shoot at you. It's pretty much the marine version of devour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to manage your energy. Don't use all your energy at once, keep at least half of it in reserve, that's general practice for any lifeform in any situation, but doubly so when you're in marine bases and triply so when you know they are using flamers.
1) Fix the flamethrower through the wall problem (being worked on)
2) Aliens and structures stay on fire far too long. Limit them to 5 sec burn time max. A lerk lit on fire and not close to a hive will die even if hit for only 1/10 of a sec because he stays on fire for 50 secs and can't fly to the hive fast enough. Or a fade wastes time sitting at a hive waiting for the flames to go out. This is the biggest issue with the FT right now.
3) Drastically reduce infestation hit points. It takes 2 entire clips (3 clips if a crag is nearby) to kill an infestation patch which is just ridiculous. That means a marine can only kill 2 patches before needing to get more ammo. The patches are commonly replaced before the marine comes back.
4) Make the ammo counter function
5) Fix the reload animation (it doesn't always play)
6) Secondary napalm fire mode that ignites any alien touching the flaming puddle for a short time, but uses a lot of ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
x2
All valid points.
But still, why should the skulk not get fried by flamers? It's a dog-lizard.
Maybe if you had an upgrade that gave them increased tolerance to heat or something... that would make some sense...
I'd say it's balanced vs fades. They're both late-game units for their side, though they aren't the end of the line, and any fade that takes the time to stop and aim can slash a flamethrower-marine to death in a pittance.
But still, why should the skulk not get fried by flamers? It's a dog-lizard.
Maybe if you had an upgrade that gave them increased tolerance to heat or something... that would make some sense...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about a lurk special ability that makes them fireproof? They still take damage and drain from fire, but are put out the instant they stop being hit by the flamer.
But still, why should the skulk not get fried by flamers? It's a dog-lizard.
Maybe if you had an upgrade that gave them increased tolerance to heat or something... that would make some sense...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because having your class be almost unavoidably killed by a weapon is kind of lame.
That's why.
<!--quoteo(post=1854887:date=Jun 21 2011, 04:41 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Jun 21 2011, 04:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd say it's balanced vs fades. They're both late-game units for their side, though they aren't the end of the line, and any fade that takes the time to stop and aim can slash a flamethrower-marine to death in a pittance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah flamers do almost no damage to fades, they make other marines considerably more dangerous but on their own they're pretty weak, just turn on alien vision and stab the bugger using it.
That's why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm talking about logically.
Fire is kinda cruel to small things.
It takes a burning alien 5-10 seconds to gain enough energy for a single attack. Using energy conservatively when facing a group of marines is simply not a valid tactic, especially when there is a high risk of being killed, should the aliens fail to kill the marines.
Please, please, please revert the penalty back to the value in B178 (which was -80%, I believe).
Yeah, Aliens can already do that. They have Fades, which are specifically designed to stop marines from shooting or reloading. You know, by killing them. A lot of them.
I think the Flamethrower is the only thing keeping the barely 30% Marine victories alive.
Saying that flamer is wrong because it counters the fade a bit is like whining that my fade is not enough overpowered. We need to nerf the flamer so it wont interrupt my hit and run killing sprees.
Fire is kinda cruel to small things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to argue logic why don't the marines just put their incredibly cheap sentry guns in all their facilities from the start.
Logic can go hang if it makes the game better.
1) Fix the flamethrower through the wall problem (being worked on)
2) Aliens and structures stay on fire far too long. Limit them to 5 sec burn time max. A lerk lit on fire and not close to a hive will die even if hit for only 1/10 of a sec because he stays on fire for 50 secs and can't fly to the hive fast enough. Or a fade wastes time sitting at a hive waiting for the flames to go out. This is the biggest issue with the FT right now.
3) Drastically reduce infestation hit points. It takes 2 entire clips (3 clips if a crag is nearby) to kill an infestation patch which is just ridiculous. That means a marine can only kill 2 patches before needing to get more ammo. The patches are commonly replaced before the marine comes back.
4) Make the ammo counter function
5) Fix the reload animation (it doesn't always play)
6) Secondary napalm fire mode that ignites any alien touching the flaming puddle for a short time, but uses a lot of ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You make some good points here I agree with, except I disagree partially with number two.
I agree that infestation hit points need to be drastically reduced because it takes far too long right now to destroy infestation. And, like you said, by the time you go back and get more ammo the infestation could already be back.
But I personally feel alien structures don't take enough damage from fire. I went through what felt like canister after canister yesterday trying to destroy a whip by the entrance to the alien hive. Any time I went to get more ammo I assume a gorge would come back and heal it because it would always be right back up near full health.
A flamethrower is a deadly weapon that should do more damage against structures, especially when you consider it's fire. That said, once the marine is no longer holding the trigger, I think the flame-time should be decreased. I.E. if I'm hitting a fade with fire it does a lot of damage, but once he blinks away he only stays lit for a couple of seconds, much less time than he currently does.