remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
Well the Wii U's graphics should at least be on par with the 360 and ps3. This could potentially mean developers will need to spend less time tailoring the graphics for the Wii, and possibly more time implementing unique features.
As a game designer the prospects of that controller seem pretty awesome. A lot more interesting than waggling your arms around for the Kinect, and a lot more reliable than its voice recognition too.
I don't think people who release a game for several consoles will implement unique features. You design to the lowest common denominator. If you release a game for consoles X, Y, and Z, you don't make the game rely heavily on a feature that only console Y has. You also don't use extensive time and resources on making the Y version use those features because implementing extra special features in a meaningful way in a game that wasn't designed around it is a lot of work.
If the hardware is competitive with the 360 and PS3 that's going to make ports easier and more common. But I don't see ports going to great length to provide a custom-tailored experience for the Wiiu. They'll make some token use of a feature which will only contribute to the console's gimmicky reputation.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
My hope is that other designers will see the potential of the Wii U and/or that it grabs a large market share really quickly because you're right that ports will be catered to the lowest denominator; but this isn't true of the original, the one that the game is being ported from. As an example, Battlefield 3's targeting PC. They have tons of bells and whistles that the consoles just can't do. Other games target the Xbox and aim to take advantage of the Kinect and the Xbox Live community. I hope the Wii U is compelling enough to designers to get them to choose it as their target platform and put all their weight behind it. It seems like there's a lot of third-party excitement about it already... It could definitely go either way (and we will probably see both).
<!--quoteo(post=1851313:date=Jun 9 2011, 10:06 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Jun 9 2011, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's nice to see that old stalwart of those who can't imagine how even rudimentary NPCs on half the scale of milo could make something like mass effect downright amazing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So why haven't we seen it yet? Because the technology <b>doesn't and never did exist</b>. And I'm skeptical that it ever will.
If you watched Milo and seriously thought that that was real, I have a bridge to sell you.
You do realize Kinect is nothing more than a webcam with some extra features, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1851720:date=Jun 11 2011, 02:25 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Jun 11 2011, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You do realize Kinect is nothing more than a webcam with some extra features, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh... no, actually. It's a clever piece of hardware that builds a depth-map of its field of view. Something that has been outside the consumer-grade hardware space for a long time. It's not "nothing more than a webcam".
<!--quoteo(post=1851720:date=Jun 10 2011, 09:25 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Jun 10 2011, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You do realize Kinect is nothing more than a webcam with some extra features, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wat. The camera part is mostly aesthetic, the actual data comes from the infrared lights it projects. Otherwise don't you think there'd be more Kinect games being ported over to the Move?
Temph, Milo is real. The problem is your understanding of 'real' differs from mine.
Several press were invited to interact with Milo behind the scenes and came away somewhat impressed, but noting a few things about it and mr Molyneux himself pointed out that Milo basically was a series of 'tricks'. The point is, you don't need a real thinking AI, you just need something of a level you can interact with that can tell you a story. That's what NPCs in Mass Effect are right now and with tweaking, face tracking and voice recognition done properly using a decent spread of vocabulary (see scribblenauts for a game with good vocab) you could get a richer experience without having to make something that has to pass a turing test. I'm not expecting an NPC you can talk to about your favourite bands here, or your birth sign: more a talking head you can extract story bites from in a more naturalistic manner. There's been a few attempts at this stuff in the long past using just written words that were interesting and surprisingly far along, though still not exactly perfect (e.g. Starship Titanic)
The reason we haven't seen this stuff yet is because the kinnect only came out a short while ago and it's going to take time for developers to nail down the tech for this on Mass Effect scale and that very few companies are capable of putting something like even the current mass effect as it is. Most companies don't have the leisure of messing about with it in a fairly 'goalless' way like Peter Molyneux does... after all he's in charge of the Kinnect games division. All he had to worry about was making tech demos. It's all going to come in baby steps. I expect a 'milo' or 'seaman' before I expect a more widespread system being developed to encompass multiple NPCs. It's also a question of what kind of standardisation and support they get... if Microsoft starts releasing whatever voice libraries they're working on and whatnot you'll see this stuff a lot sooner rather than later.
Temph, if everyone took the line you're taking now, we'd still all be playing 2D games. Back in the earliy days of 3D when everything was a hideous mess with just 2 digit number of polys, a lot of people said "It's ugly and adds nothing to the game. We don't need 3D, what's the point?" But the devs and designers had a bit more imagination and because of that we have the trhiving 3D games industry we have now. Whether or not you were one of the 'anti-3D' people isn't important. The subject may be different, but it's the same mindset :3
Will the leap from PS3 to PS4 provide significant additions to consumers?
The answer will determine whether Wii U is successful or not (still needs a harddrive though).
Currently the PS3 seems to have a lot of stuff already (except the ability to emulate PS2 games and the ability to play BF3 with 64 players >.>).
Since apparently the Wii U is better than the PS3 (in terms of system specs except harddrive), will the PS4 or Xbox 720 (once either of them are released) be as big as a gap of the current PS3 and the Wii?
Basically if the PS4 were to come out in 3 years and Sony invested in its hardware, will the gap be bigger than the current PS3 to Wii or will it be less?
The Wii U (for example) apparently has 512 RAM and 1024 VRAM (as opposed to PS3 256 RAM and VRAM?). Is that huge (I'm a console hardware nub).
Anyway I think that question will really help answer whether the Wii U succeeds (a big part is whether it can grab existing PS3 and Xbox 360 owners) or not.
___________________________ Anyway in terms of Wii U and harddrives - I can name a few games that may need or want at least 10 gigs or more:
1. Diablo III - Yes Diablo III is confirmed for consoles (in Blizzards job page listing, they're seeking developers for the PS3 port.).
Blizzard plans to release as many expansions as possible for Diablo III.
If Wii U lacks sufficient space - It may not be able to play Diablo III.
2. FFXIV - Currently in major development (okay it's out but it's not so good right now. But there's no monthly payment until SE "fixes" the game).
Planned for PS3. Could also work for Wii U if it had more space.
3. "Titan" (codename for Blizzard's next MMO) - There are barely any MMOs for consoles (FFXI and FFXIV are only two games I can think of). It seems like a good chance Blizzard could bring their next MMO to consoles as well as PCs.
*Titan may not be a MMORPG.
tl;dr - Nintendo should give Wii U harddrive support.
<!--quoteo(post=1852500:date=Jun 13 2011, 11:54 PM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petco @ Jun 13 2011, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852500"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will the leap from PS3 to PS4 provide significant additions to consumers?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. But Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft do not make money on releasing the next generation of consoles so they are going to milk all the can out of this one.
I'm unsurprised that Nintendo announced the Wii U, in light of the fact that almost everyone, his dog, and the puppies have one. What I am surprised at is the fact that people still give a ###### about arguing about the same old ######. Let me break it down for you:
E3 hype, E3 disappoint.
All of the "innovation" in the console market is technology that has been around for years brought to the consumer at cut cost prices. I hated the implication that the Wii was innovative - I would promptly reply "House of the Dead!!", which is that arcade shooter where you have a gun you point at the screen, and a machine that eats your spare change.
Playstation Move is just a more reliable Wiimote, so I condemn Sony for ripping off the conman (Nintendo).
Microsoft I applaud for making a very unique product for motion controls, but remain entirely uninterested in it or the software for it. For me, it's an expensive webcam with extra features that I'll never use.
Surprisingly the most innovative idea I heard at E3 came from the by and far, worst presentation of all of E3, Ubisoft (that is, if memory serves). It was brief, no demo of it in action and really, not even that innovative. It was the Guitar Hero-esque game where you plug in your actual electric (maybe electro acoustic too?) guitar into the console and play that instead of the ###### plastic thing.
I only really liked that because it would teach you how to play whilst entertaining you thoroughly. The software and hardware behind it though, generic and been around as long as electric guitars probably.
Comments
As a game designer the prospects of that controller seem pretty awesome. A lot more interesting than waggling your arms around for the Kinect, and a lot more reliable than its voice recognition too.
If the hardware is competitive with the 360 and PS3 that's going to make ports easier and more common. But I don't see ports going to great length to provide a custom-tailored experience for the Wiiu. They'll make some token use of a feature which will only contribute to the console's gimmicky reputation.
It seems like there's a lot of third-party excitement about it already... It could definitely go either way (and we will probably see both).
So why haven't we seen it yet? Because the technology <b>doesn't and never did exist</b>. And I'm skeptical that it ever will.
If you watched Milo and seriously thought that that was real, I have a bridge to sell you.
You do realize Kinect is nothing more than a webcam with some extra features, right?
Uh... no, actually. It's a clever piece of hardware that builds a depth-map of its field of view. Something that has been outside the consumer-grade hardware space for a long time. It's not "nothing more than a webcam".
--Scythe--
Wat. The camera part is mostly aesthetic, the actual data comes from the infrared lights it projects. Otherwise don't you think there'd be more Kinect games being ported over to the Move?
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dTKlNGSH9Po"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dTKlNGSH9Po" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
HD Zelda Tech demo
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y9uYCU8jFiU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y9uYCU8jFiU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Several press were invited to interact with Milo behind the scenes and came away somewhat impressed, but noting a few things about it and mr Molyneux himself pointed out that Milo basically was a series of 'tricks'. The point is, you don't need a real thinking AI, you just need something of a level you can interact with that can tell you a story. That's what NPCs in Mass Effect are right now and with tweaking, face tracking and voice recognition done properly using a decent spread of vocabulary (see scribblenauts for a game with good vocab) you could get a richer experience without having to make something that has to pass a turing test. I'm not expecting an NPC you can talk to about your favourite bands here, or your birth sign: more a talking head you can extract story bites from in a more naturalistic manner. There's been a few attempts at this stuff in the long past using just written words that were interesting and surprisingly far along, though still not exactly perfect (e.g. Starship Titanic)
The reason we haven't seen this stuff yet is because the kinnect only came out a short while ago and it's going to take time for developers to nail down the tech for this on Mass Effect scale and that very few companies are capable of putting something like even the current mass effect as it is. Most companies don't have the leisure of messing about with it in a fairly 'goalless' way like Peter Molyneux does... after all he's in charge of the Kinnect games division. All he had to worry about was making tech demos.
It's all going to come in baby steps. I expect a 'milo' or 'seaman' before I expect a more widespread system being developed to encompass multiple NPCs. It's also a question of what kind of standardisation and support they get... if Microsoft starts releasing whatever voice libraries they're working on and whatnot you'll see this stuff a lot sooner rather than later.
Temph, if everyone took the line you're taking now, we'd still all be playing 2D games. Back in the earliy days of 3D when everything was a hideous mess with just 2 digit number of polys, a lot of people said "It's ugly and adds nothing to the game. We don't need 3D, what's the point?" But the devs and designers had a bit more imagination and because of that we have the trhiving 3D games industry we have now. Whether or not you were one of the 'anti-3D' people isn't important. The subject may be different, but it's the same mindset :3
The answer will determine whether Wii U is successful or not (still needs a harddrive though).
Currently the PS3 seems to have a lot of stuff already (except the ability to emulate PS2 games and the ability to play BF3 with 64 players >.>).
Since apparently the Wii U is better than the PS3 (in terms of system specs except harddrive), will the PS4 or Xbox 720 (once either of them are released) be as big as a gap of the current PS3 and the Wii?
Basically if the PS4 were to come out in 3 years and Sony invested in its hardware, will the gap be bigger than the current PS3 to Wii or will it be less?
The Wii U (for example) apparently has 512 RAM and 1024 VRAM (as opposed to PS3 256 RAM and VRAM?). Is that huge (I'm a console hardware nub).
Anyway I think that question will really help answer whether the Wii U succeeds (a big part is whether it can grab existing PS3 and Xbox 360 owners) or not.
___________________________
Anyway in terms of Wii U and harddrives - I can name a few games that may need or want at least 10 gigs or more:
1. Diablo III - Yes Diablo III is confirmed for consoles (in Blizzards job page listing, they're seeking developers for the PS3 port.).
Blizzard plans to release as many expansions as possible for Diablo III.
If Wii U lacks sufficient space - It may not be able to play Diablo III.
2. FFXIV - Currently in major development (okay it's out but it's not so good right now. But there's no monthly payment until SE "fixes" the game).
Planned for PS3. Could also work for Wii U if it had more space.
3. "Titan" (codename for Blizzard's next MMO) - There are barely any MMOs for consoles (FFXI and FFXIV are only two games I can think of). It seems like a good chance Blizzard could bring their next MMO to consoles as well as PCs.
*Titan may not be a MMORPG.
tl;dr - Nintendo should give Wii U harddrive support.
Yes. But Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft do not make money on releasing the next generation of consoles so they are going to milk all the can out of this one.
E3 hype, E3 disappoint.
All of the "innovation" in the console market is technology that has been around for years brought to the consumer at cut cost prices. I hated the implication that the Wii was innovative - I would promptly reply "House of the Dead!!", which is that arcade shooter where you have a gun you point at the screen, and a machine that eats your spare change.
Playstation Move is just a more reliable Wiimote, so I condemn Sony for ripping off the conman (Nintendo).
Microsoft I applaud for making a very unique product for motion controls, but remain entirely uninterested in it or the software for it. For me, it's an expensive webcam with extra features that I'll never use.
Surprisingly the most innovative idea I heard at E3 came from the by and far, worst presentation of all of E3, Ubisoft (that is, if memory serves). It was brief, no demo of it in action and really, not even that innovative. It was the Guitar Hero-esque game where you plug in your actual electric (maybe electro acoustic too?) guitar into the console and play that instead of the ###### plastic thing.
I only really liked that because it would teach you how to play whilst entertaining you thoroughly. The software and hardware behind it though, generic and been around as long as electric guitars probably.