I've always thought that leap could be handled through energy costs. Pre-research, leap costs, say, 50/100 energy; post-research it costs considerably less (what it does now).
They did not change the SG range <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looked at shotgun range because I’m hearing some complaints. It’s at 20 which feels about right to me. If you look at a target and don’t see reticle text for it, the it’s out of range (it’s also 20).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that not all Upgrades are in (that why i mentioned Cele). And a Skulk with regen,armor 3, carpace and i don't know what vs 180dmg in my face. Even Superskulkie is dead then!
It should not be 2. Hive till they added a Upgrade that is almost as useful as Leap, or like you mentioned to hold the balance a bit for the next builds (if no Upgrades introduced) to research it on a Structure but not to cheap, so that Aliencom has to decide: Leap or Melee/Def 2?
And the reason why the Marines only win 30% is because (most times) half the team does run to B and die, spawn run to B die... and the other 2 play as Team (just defending east side of base!)
<u>Thinking about making swipe much slower, with more energy cost and more powerful (so you wouldn’t want to use it on structures but it could really “snipe†lower-health targets).</u>
this makes no sense to me. wouldn't you want to change SECONDARY attack not the normal swipe attack? the secondary attack is what hardly ever used at all in combat, especially if you want to do hit and run tactics. And how often will you be using secondary attack on MOVING-target? the slow motion attack is just way too silly, and looks good on video rather than actual combat.
rather than change how swipe works, change how secondary attacks work. allow the secondary attack be an instant attack but it should have short delay between its attacks, so it cannot be spammed.
focus works just like that in ns1, it was an instant attack but it had a delay between its attacks, so you can't spam it, and since secondary attack pretty much what focus attack was, only backwards designed.
I agree with most of the reactions to the Skulk changes. Leap was introduced to give Skulks much needed mobility, and giving the Rifle-butt Melee a knockback was supposed to be a (slightly) skill-based solution to the AR's initial weakness. What ever happened to that?
Even WITH Leap, Skulk vs. AR Marine combat is very unforgiving for both parties.
Bite has the potential to deal 75 damage every 0.45 seconds, so you can technically kill a Marine in 1.4 seconds. That's three bites, or a preliminary parasite and 2 bites.There is no long delay between attacks, so there is plenty of incentive to try and get all 3 (or 2 if you plan ahead) Bites off at the first engagement.
The Assault Rifle has little to no recoil and can unload the 90 effective damage required to kill a Skulk in about 1.5 seconds. Tracing a Skulks movement while the AR unloads with almost no recoil is not difficult by any stretch of the imagination, so if you've already Leapt once to get to the Marine, you have to be able to find cover in 2 Leaps almost instantly or you're dead to a steady stream of rifle fire.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Both parties have the potential to die within 2 seconds. Neither has much room for error, but has plenty that can go wrong. This results in a very frantic experience.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
If this were a pure FPS like Counter-Strike, that'd be just enough time to pump someone full of lead, but the melee classes survive by moving in and out of combat with their skill-based movement, and are getting very little time (and resources in the skulks case) to make use of the skillset. The new Blink raised the skillcap considerably for Fades; they can survive because they can move out of harms way (and sight) almost instantly.
But Skulks have to be extremely conservative with Leap, and no reasonable move speed alone can't get you out of harms way in less than 2 seconds, especially considering that the level geometry is now A LOT more complex and harder to traverse. The Skulk is a suicide bomber at this point. Honestly, combat would not change drastically if you removed Bite and gave us Xenocide.
Leap or not, I really think the pacing of the Assault Rifle and of Bite could be toned down to draw out these battles and give players more time to act and react and essentially pit their skills against each other. Sacrificing some of the Skulks Power in favor of Survivability would make combat much less binary for both parties. Drop Bite damage considerably so that Skulks have to run in and out, pecking at Marines instead of chomp-chomp-killing them (Swarm has the potential to be the upgrade that restores a lot of damage to Skulks, but it's almost useless right now, because what's 25 more damage when you deal 75 every 0.45 seconds?).
EDIT: Also, I support this! <!--quoteo(post=1853904:date=Jun 17 2011, 10:40 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 17 2011, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've always thought that leap could be handled through energy costs. Pre-research, leap costs, say, 50/100 energy; post-research it costs considerably less (what it does now).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, the last thing we need is more marines and aliens jumping around. Please no bunnyhop
Second, If leap is going to have to be researched, which I think is a bad idea in the first place, then at least make it so you dont have to upgrade every time you die. Also, replace mini-leap with normal Ns1 leap.
Third, Fade swipe definitely needs a fix. By the time the 2nd hive rolls around and fades start appearing, marines have armor 1-2 and are unable to be 1-shotted (which is kinda the point of focus from ns1.) I like all the ideas posted so far but my favorite is the DOT effect that "wounds" the marine. Slowing them down and possibly marking them with a phermone that other aliens can see and get a dmg buff to use against them until. This would force marines back to spawn or require medkits to heal/stitch up the wound.
KuBans post above was excellent as well, was typing this up while he posted it. Ive always enjoy the guerrilla warfare style that aliens use. I wouldnt mind seeing a leap energy increase (4 times instead of 3) and kubans suggestion above to make it a more frantic experience. This would encourage more skulks to work together to take down 1 target. Both skulks could hit and run the marine while leaping all around. (sorta like it already is, but I feel like skulks must to go in for a kill or else die retreating from the hail of bullets.)
1. predictable movement and no air control (can't strafe) 2. slow 3.leaps much shorter distance compared to ns1 leap 4. energy to make 3 leaps only, pretty poor 5. many times it just stoles while you try to leap quickly, you must wait even when you look like you have energy for another leap
point, current leap wasn't even made as it was in ns1. even when they removed mini-leap and added normal leap, they didn't really fix the problems it already had to begin with.
IF they want to make leap unlock-able by second hive, its not something skulks need to research for. It should be unlocked for every skulk by default, as it was in ns1. AND if they want to do this, actually make leap as it was in ns1, don't just keep the current poor leap movement, skulk movement can use some polishing up as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1854009:date=Jun 17 2011, 04:20 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jun 17 2011, 04:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldnt mind seeing a leap energy increase (4 times instead of 3) and kubans suggestion above to make it a <b>more</b> frantic experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was arguing <b>against</b> making combat any more frantic. Fast-paced yes, but not the game of "who can get the first headshot" we have currently.
1. predictable movement and no air control (can't strafe)
You can strafe, even more if you only press a or d without holding w, any more possible strafe movement would be silly. What are you suggesting 90° curves with leap? Is it a skulk or an airplane? Just dont leap from far away straight into a marine with shotgun, more aircontrol wouldnt save you if you do it like this.
2. Speed ist fast enough. 3. distance could be longer 4. 3 leaps is pretty nice, if you ve mastered it its at least 3 missed shotgun shots, and 2 bite hits. 5. play more and you got the feeling how to manage your energy and leaps.
<!--quoteo(post=1854028:date=Jun 17 2011, 03:14 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ Jun 17 2011, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854028"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was arguing <b>against</b> making combat any more frantic. Fast-paced yes, but not the game of "who can get the first headshot" we have currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry I should've used a different word. I was trying to use a word to capture the experience of a marine quickly turning his head everywhere, wondering where the skulk went and when he will reappear. I believe that was the picture you were trying to paint? I just smoked so my comprehension isn't the greatest :)
Intense / freaking out is probably more suitable than frantic. I would say scared but the game isnt scary. Just the genuine fear of knowing there is a skulk waiting to ambush, leap away, then ambush again.
I agree that the skulk movement isn't fast enough. Often I feel like the marine is just out of reach of my bite if I was just a little faster I'd be able to get him.
I think the gameplay for the skulk should go like: 1-2 bites on a marine, then run away for cover. Surprise a marine, get a bite in, run away again. Ambush style rather than just direct combat. In order to do that though you need to be able to leap away to safety. Basically if the marine gets the jump on you, he should be able to kill you. But if you surprise him and use skilled leaps and cover you should be able to take him down.
Also, I'd like to see the skulks secondary attack be a little bit easier to aim. It's very difficult to hit moving targets with it at the moment.
What if, instead of leap at tier 1, and as a way of adding some movement skill to the game (but avoiding the engine exploit of bunnyhopping), skulks gained the ability to 'dash'. Borrowing from the 'double-tap direction to mini-blink' from fade, doubletapping any direction as skulk would make the skulk do a mini dash to that direction, allowing it to dodge shots on its way in, skip around to the back of a marine who's trying to track him, and just generally make the skulk more mobile before leap.
If you feel the need to differentiate between gorge and commander pustules, I think a better idea would be to make it so that small pustules are a general thing. The infestation would naturally grow new small pustules and gorges would drop small pustules, both of which mature over time into normal pustules. Commanders have the advantage of being able to drop full size ones right off the bat, so their infestation progresses faster, but it's all the same basic stuff. I don't really like giving gorges this inherently crappy infestation that is for no real reason separate from the regular infestation.
Rather than having the nomenclature of large and small pustules, you might want to keep one named pustule, and the other something like abscess, ulcer, or fistula. It'll make reading the name faster and easier, but still get the general point across.
I like the idea of small pustules growing into mature pustules indistinguishable from commander-dropped mature pustules, with the commander dropping mature pustules (or pustules that mature much faster) right off the bat.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1855603:date=Jun 22 2011, 10:59 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 22 2011, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of small pustules growing into mature pustules indistinguishable from commander-dropped mature pustules, with the commander dropping mature pustules (or pustules that mature much faster) right off the bat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the idea too.
But I think they should change the 'mature' system so alien structures mature over time, rather than being a paid upgrade. Commander drops a pustule that matures into a hardened pustule. Gorge drops a minor pustule, that grows into a pustule, that matures into a hardened pustule.
Minor pustule being very fleshy and vulnerable. Pustule being however they are meant to be, and hardened pustule having a stronger armor and fire resistance. It would show the toughness of the alien infestation the deeper you get in their territory.
Yeah that'd be a pretty good idea I think. I'd keep the ability to pay to upgrade them as you might need to do it quickly, but if they did it themselves over time it'd be interesting.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1855616:date=Jun 22 2011, 11:38 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jun 22 2011, 11:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah that'd be a pretty good idea I think. I'd keep the ability to pay to upgrade them as you might need to do it quickly, but if they did it themselves over time it'd be interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing how the structure would mature over time slowly, you would just pay to speed it up.
Say it's at 32% and you want it to become mature now. You click focus maturity(something like that), pay the 10 team res, and it continues off of 32% but at the rate of when you upgrade a structure.
<!--quoteo(post=1855596:date=Jun 22 2011, 07:18 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jun 22 2011, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855596"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although that isn't very descriptive, small pustule says what it is, using different proper nouns for everything kind of gets confusing after a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, you're probably right. I've got a medical background, so keeping those straight in <i>my</i> head isn't an issue, but that's not a general population trait.
Ahh...! No permanent Hydras? Ok will mean I will spend res on it ( Hydra) and it may die even before it saw a Marine? For example. I put some Hydras (4) at Surface Acces because Marines attack it. But when I builded them Marines startet attacking Main-Hive. So as gorge I need to go back for Support my Colony! In the meantime my Hydras die, no def at SA then, the Marines now can just walk in SA-Hive and kill it in 10s-4s. (sneak PG, beacon [not implemented now], booooom)
So why should I spend my res on them? It ain't granted that they even get 1 spike out before they die! It's like planting Dollarnotes! Do you really want to spend Res on something that may be usless instead of going Fade/Lerk/Onos ?
It would be OK if it uses Gorge energy but is limited by 2 (or 3) Hydras per Hive for each player. Even in 10vs10 lategames I never saw more than around 10 Hydras on the whole map (and around 30 Sentrys). I see most of the time Crag-Spam, I also do this ( ever tryed to heal a 40% Hive with 4 Crags? It takes ages)
I was also thinking about the Turrets. What if we change the damagetype to Normal and double ( maybe even higher?) the costs? They would be much more usefull (almost like in NS1 ), because now they do half vs armor. Btw are they afachted by DMG Upgrades?
And the last suggestion I have to the mini-Pustules (great to see you really read our Ideas!!). Instead of showing Unconnected Minipustule, that is really long on a FPS screen, make the connected Pustules glow and the unconnected one not, or just a little bit! So you directly can see if it is connected or not!
What if, instead of giving hydras a limited lifespan, you just made them extra vulnerable to flamethrower DoT?
The issue is primarily the amount of man-hours(minutes?) required to counter what is essentially the effort of one gorge erecting what were intended to be speed-bumps. Beefing the DoT effect of the flamethrower would:
-Still maintain a decent combat lifespan on the Hydra (in absence of grenade launchers), since the primary source of damage is a non-stackable DoT (IE, lifespan would not decrease substantially in the presence of focused fire [pun!]). -Increase the utility of the flamethrower in a specific, but frequently encountered scenario that meshes well with the current FT role (territory control) -Discourages Hydra clustering, which means the kill-zone for multiple hydras would be less uniform, and also slightly decreasing the utility of crag-stacking to support hydra clusters -Do little to discourage placing Hydras, but a fair bit to discourage Hydras being used in their current, problematic fashion.
Flamethrowers should be about area/infestation control, so giving them a damage bonus against a structure designed for temporary area control seems logical. Beefing their direct damage is a recipe for zero-sum style marine suicide attacks, but beefing the DoT allows the marine to step around a corner, light one off, and fall back a bit, rinse wash repeat. Or perhaps being on-fire just prevents crag/gorge healing? Anyway, just a thought.
Setting up well placed buildings on improved geometry is one of the most significant things i got excited about for this game. Ive grown quite attached to doing this for the time ive been playing (even though gorge has, so far, been very restricted in the surface area it can access)
<b>Of course hydras will be very important either way, but if this does get implemented it will be discouraging to know that after putting so much thought/effort/calculations into setting up, that everything will just end up dying on it's own and out of my control.</b>
My thoughts on how it would work with a slow-on-damage mechanic:
<ul><li>For Marines, the slow-on-damage is counteracted by teammates taking some distance and covering each other.</li><li>For Aliens, the slow-on-damage is counteracted by the alien special movement abilities (Leap, Blink, Belly Slide), meaning a player should always try and conserve enough energy to be able to get away or he'll effectively be toast (further enforcing the Flamethrower's role in a marine group).</li><li>Special cases would be Lerk and Jetpack that would loose height while taking damage but not speed (unless hitting ground ofc). Onos and Exo-Suits could be immune to any slowdowns but are unable to jump around anyway (exception would be the Exo's jump-ability).</li></ul>
Because if for example the Skulk is always slowed on hit (incl. Leap), I think it could end up being a too hard nerf for the Skulk.
If it's a subtle reduction (to 80-75% of normal speed or so), it ought to be interesting without being so crippling that everyone complains. I'm in agreement that it shouldn't affect things like leap/blink/bellyslide/flight, and having no idea how jetpacks will handle, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Basically, go for it, I'm curious to see what people think... but don't make it a huge reduction.
Any way to have it NOT slow on fire damage? It's difficult enough to survive being on fire ATM, especially with energy reduction, without making it harder to retreat once you're burning.
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Trying to address the crazy tango chaos of combat. Trying a slow-on-damage change (which may allow the addition of leap again). I know this is controversial. Please feel free not to go crazy on the forums. :) This could a) allow skulks to prevent marines from jumping and sprinting out of combat so easily b) allow marines to shoot down leaping skulks while they're flying directly at them, and allow marines to much more effectively cover each other (if they're in position and prepared).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1856001:date=Jun 23 2011, 09:52 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 23 2011, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856001"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are people talking about slow on hit? Is that suggested by the devs? I really don't like that idea unless aliens are made faster to begin with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah unfortunately that's the case. I can see where the decision came from but it's not good for the already slow Aliens to get slowed with each bullet. But this is most certainly the time to experiment these kinds of changes and see if it'll actually work.
Comments
They did not change the SG range
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looked at shotgun range because I’m hearing some complaints. It’s at 20 which feels about right to me. If you look at a target and don’t see reticle text for it, the it’s out of range (it’s also 20).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that not all Upgrades are in (that why i mentioned Cele).
And a Skulk with regen,armor 3, carpace and i don't know what vs 180dmg in my face.
Even Superskulkie is dead then!
It should not be 2. Hive till they added a Upgrade that is almost as useful as Leap, or like you mentioned to hold the balance a bit for the next builds (if no Upgrades introduced) to research it on a Structure but not to cheap, so that Aliencom has to decide: Leap or Melee/Def 2?
And the reason why the Marines only win 30% is because (most times) half the team does run to B and die, spawn run to B die... and the other 2 play as Team (just defending east side of base!)
this makes no sense to me. wouldn't you want to change SECONDARY attack not the normal swipe attack?
the secondary attack is what hardly ever used at all in combat, especially if you want to do hit and run tactics.
And how often will you be using secondary attack on MOVING-target? the slow motion attack is just way too silly, and looks good on video rather than actual combat.
rather than change how swipe works, change how secondary attacks work.
allow the secondary attack be an instant attack but it should have short delay between its attacks, so it cannot be spammed.
focus works just like that in ns1, it was an instant attack but it had a delay between its attacks, so you can't spam it, and since secondary attack pretty much what focus attack was, only backwards designed.
Even WITH Leap, Skulk vs. AR Marine combat is very unforgiving for both parties.
Bite has the potential to deal 75 damage every 0.45 seconds, so you can technically kill a Marine in 1.4 seconds. That's three bites, or a preliminary parasite and 2 bites.There is no long delay between attacks, so there is plenty of incentive to try and get all 3 (or 2 if you plan ahead) Bites off at the first engagement.
The Assault Rifle has little to no recoil and can unload the 90 effective damage required to kill a Skulk in about 1.5 seconds. Tracing a Skulks movement while the AR unloads with almost no recoil is not difficult by any stretch of the imagination, so if you've already Leapt once to get to the Marine, you have to be able to find cover in 2 Leaps almost instantly or you're dead to a steady stream of rifle fire.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Both parties have the potential to die within 2 seconds. Neither has much room for error, but has plenty that can go wrong. This results in a very frantic experience.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
If this were a pure FPS like Counter-Strike, that'd be just enough time to pump someone full of lead, but the melee classes survive by moving in and out of combat with their skill-based movement, and are getting very little time (and resources in the skulks case) to make use of the skillset. The new Blink raised the skillcap considerably for Fades; they can survive because they can move out of harms way (and sight) almost instantly.
But Skulks have to be extremely conservative with Leap, and no reasonable move speed alone can't get you out of harms way in less than 2 seconds, especially considering that the level geometry is now A LOT more complex and harder to traverse. The Skulk is a suicide bomber at this point. Honestly, combat would not change drastically if you removed Bite and gave us Xenocide.
Leap or not, I really think the pacing of the Assault Rifle and of Bite could be toned down to draw out these battles and give players more time to act and react and essentially pit their skills against each other. Sacrificing some of the Skulks Power in favor of Survivability would make combat much less binary for both parties. Drop Bite damage considerably so that Skulks have to run in and out, pecking at Marines instead of chomp-chomp-killing them (Swarm has the potential to be the upgrade that restores a lot of damage to Skulks, but it's almost useless right now, because what's 25 more damage when you deal 75 every 0.45 seconds?).
EDIT: Also, I support this!
<!--quoteo(post=1853904:date=Jun 17 2011, 10:40 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 17 2011, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've always thought that leap could be handled through energy costs. Pre-research, leap costs, say, 50/100 energy; post-research it costs considerably less (what it does now).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, the last thing we need is more marines and aliens jumping around. Please no bunnyhop
Second, If leap is going to have to be researched, which I think is a bad idea in the first place, then at least make it so you dont have to upgrade every time you die. Also, replace mini-leap with normal Ns1 leap.
Third, Fade swipe definitely needs a fix. By the time the 2nd hive rolls around and fades start appearing, marines have armor 1-2 and are unable to be 1-shotted (which is kinda the point of focus from ns1.) I like all the ideas posted so far but my favorite is the DOT effect that "wounds" the marine. Slowing them down and possibly marking them with a phermone that other aliens can see and get a dmg buff to use against them until. This would force marines back to spawn or require medkits to heal/stitch up the wound.
KuBans post above was excellent as well, was typing this up while he posted it. Ive always enjoy the guerrilla warfare style that aliens use. I wouldnt mind seeing a leap energy increase (4 times instead of 3) and kubans suggestion above to make it a more frantic experience. This would encourage more skulks to work together to take down 1 target. Both skulks could hit and run the marine while leaping all around. (sorta like it already is, but I feel like skulks must to go in for a kill or else die retreating from the hail of bullets.)
current leap
1. predictable movement and no air control (can't strafe)
2. slow
3.leaps much shorter distance compared to ns1 leap
4. energy to make 3 leaps only, pretty poor
5. many times it just stoles while you try to leap quickly, you must wait even when you look like you have energy for another leap
point, current leap wasn't even made as it was in ns1.
even when they removed mini-leap and added normal leap, they didn't really fix the problems it already had to begin with.
IF they want to make leap unlock-able by second hive, its not something skulks need to research for. It should be unlocked for every skulk by default, as it was in ns1.
AND if they want to do this, actually make leap as it was in ns1, don't just keep the current poor leap movement, skulk movement can use some polishing up as well.
I was arguing <b>against</b> making combat any more frantic. Fast-paced yes, but not the game of "who can get the first headshot" we have currently.
You can strafe, even more if you only press a or d without holding w, any more possible strafe movement would be silly. What are you suggesting 90° curves with leap? Is it a skulk or an airplane? Just dont leap from far away straight into a marine with shotgun, more aircontrol wouldnt save you if you do it like this.
2. Speed ist fast enough.
3. distance could be longer
4. 3 leaps is pretty nice, if you ve mastered it its at least 3 missed shotgun shots, and 2 bite hits.
5. play more and you got the feeling how to manage your energy and leaps.
Sorry I should've used a different word. I was trying to use a word to capture the experience of a marine quickly turning his head everywhere, wondering where the skulk went and when he will reappear. I believe that was the picture you were trying to paint? I just smoked so my comprehension isn't the greatest :)
Intense / freaking out is probably more suitable than frantic. I would say scared but the game isnt scary. Just the genuine fear of knowing there is a skulk waiting to ambush, leap away, then ambush again.
I think the gameplay for the skulk should go like: 1-2 bites on a marine, then run away for cover. Surprise a marine, get a bite in, run away again. Ambush style rather than just direct combat. In order to do that though you need to be able to leap away to safety. Basically if the marine gets the jump on you, he should be able to kill you. But if you surprise him and use skilled leaps and cover you should be able to take him down.
Also, I'd like to see the skulks secondary attack be a little bit easier to aim. It's very difficult to hit moving targets with it at the moment.
I like the idea too.
But I think they should change the 'mature' system so alien structures mature over time, rather than being a paid upgrade.
Commander drops a pustule that matures into a hardened pustule.
Gorge drops a minor pustule, that grows into a pustule, that matures into a hardened pustule.
Minor pustule being very fleshy and vulnerable. Pustule being however they are meant to be, and hardened pustule having a stronger armor and fire resistance.
It would show the toughness of the alien infestation the deeper you get in their territory.
Seeing how the structure would mature over time slowly, you would just pay to speed it up.
Say it's at 32% and you want it to become mature now. You click focus maturity(something like that), pay the 10 team res, and it continues off of 32% but at the rate of when you upgrade a structure.
Yeah, you're probably right. I've got a medical background, so keeping those straight in <i>my</i> head isn't an issue, but that's not a general population trait.
Ok will mean I will spend res on it ( Hydra) and it may die even before it saw a Marine?
For example. I put some Hydras (4) at Surface Acces because Marines attack it. But when I builded them Marines startet attacking Main-Hive. So as gorge I need to go back for Support my Colony!
In the meantime my Hydras die, no def at SA then, the Marines now can just walk in SA-Hive and kill it in 10s-4s. (sneak PG, beacon [not implemented now], booooom)
So why should I spend my res on them? It ain't granted that they even get 1 spike out before they die! It's like planting Dollarnotes!
Do you really want to spend Res on something that may be usless instead of going Fade/Lerk/Onos ?
It would be OK if it uses Gorge energy but is limited by 2 (or 3) Hydras per Hive for each player.
Even in 10vs10 lategames I never saw more than around 10 Hydras on the whole map (and around 30 Sentrys). I see most of the time Crag-Spam, I also do this ( ever tryed to heal a 40% Hive with 4 Crags? It takes ages)
I was also thinking about the Turrets. What if we change the damagetype to Normal and double ( maybe even higher?) the costs? They would be much more usefull (almost like in NS1 ), because now they do half vs armor. Btw are they afachted by DMG Upgrades?
And the last suggestion I have to the mini-Pustules (great to see you really read our Ideas!!).
Instead of showing Unconnected Minipustule, that is really long on a FPS screen, make the connected Pustules glow and the unconnected one not, or just a little bit! So you directly can see if it is connected or not!
One last thing I have to say: "Beacon!!!"
The issue is primarily the amount of man-hours(minutes?) required to counter what is essentially the effort of one gorge erecting what were intended to be speed-bumps. Beefing the DoT effect of the flamethrower would:
-Still maintain a decent combat lifespan on the Hydra (in absence of grenade launchers), since the primary source of damage is a non-stackable DoT (IE, lifespan would not decrease substantially in the presence of focused fire [pun!]).
-Increase the utility of the flamethrower in a specific, but frequently encountered scenario that meshes well with the current FT role (territory control)
-Discourages Hydra clustering, which means the kill-zone for multiple hydras would be less uniform, and also slightly decreasing the utility of crag-stacking to support hydra clusters
-Do little to discourage placing Hydras, but a fair bit to discourage Hydras being used in their current, problematic fashion.
Flamethrowers should be about area/infestation control, so giving them a damage bonus against a structure designed for temporary area control seems logical. Beefing their direct damage is a recipe for zero-sum style marine suicide attacks, but beefing the DoT allows the marine to step around a corner, light one off, and fall back a bit, rinse wash repeat. Or perhaps being on-fire just prevents crag/gorge healing? Anyway, just a thought.
Ive grown quite attached to doing this for the time ive been playing (even though gorge has, so far, been very restricted in the surface area it can access)
<b>Of course hydras will be very important either way, but if this does get implemented it will be discouraging to know that after putting so much thought/effort/calculations into setting up, that everything will just end up dying on it's own and out of my control.</b>
<u>Posted first in another thread</u> ^
They.
Though, it does give Spit some utility.
<ul><li>For Marines, the slow-on-damage is counteracted by teammates taking some distance and covering each other.</li><li>For Aliens, the slow-on-damage is counteracted by the alien special movement abilities (Leap, Blink, Belly Slide), meaning a player should always try and conserve enough energy to be able to get away or he'll effectively be toast (further enforcing the Flamethrower's role in a marine group).</li><li>Special cases would be Lerk and Jetpack that would loose height while taking damage but not speed (unless hitting ground ofc). Onos and Exo-Suits could be immune to any slowdowns but are unable to jump around anyway (exception would be the Exo's jump-ability).</li></ul>
Because if for example the Skulk is always slowed on hit (incl. Leap), I think it could end up being a too hard nerf for the Skulk.
Basically, go for it, I'm curious to see what people think... but don't make it a huge reduction.
Any way to have it NOT slow on fire damage? It's difficult enough to survive being on fire ATM, especially with energy reduction, without making it harder to retreat once you're burning.
Yeah unfortunately that's the case. I can see where the decision came from but it's not good for the already slow Aliens to get slowed with each bullet.
But this is most certainly the time to experiment these kinds of changes and see if it'll actually work.