Gorge without a cause
kabab
Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Importance of gorges in NS2</div>So now that I've been playing more and more I feel the gorge doesn't have anywhere near the impact and importance as it did in NS1.
For example in NS1 the gorge had these responsibilities;
Hives
Resource towers
SC/MC/DC chambers
Offence chambers
Healing
Webs
Bile bombing
The new gorge doesn't have very important tasks any more sure you can build build hydra's/heal/infest but he doesn't have the game changing impact he used to have :(
I understand that some of these responsibly have been shifted to the Alien commander (which I personally don't like) but I think this has come at massive detriment to the beloved gorge..
Give us back our industrious little builder :(
For example in NS1 the gorge had these responsibilities;
Hives
Resource towers
SC/MC/DC chambers
Offence chambers
Healing
Webs
Bile bombing
The new gorge doesn't have very important tasks any more sure you can build build hydra's/heal/infest but he doesn't have the game changing impact he used to have :(
I understand that some of these responsibly have been shifted to the Alien commander (which I personally don't like) but I think this has come at massive detriment to the beloved gorge..
Give us back our industrious little builder :(
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111628" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=111628</a>
(instead it depends on whoever is playing as the alien commander)
Though I would like to see more for the gorge to do, since placing hydras is a task finished quite fast before running out of p-res, and other than that you're unlikely to be at the right place at the right time (ie unbuilt or damaged structures) if you're merely waddling around. Bilebomb would do, or allowing the mini-infestation patches to stay indefinitely if connected to regular infestation.
Gorges heal buildings super fast, a hive gets ridiculous amounts of health from one spray.
They're also good at attacking /together/ with fades and skulks. The bile does okay damage to a marine.
But yeah, they're still definitely missing some utility, but I think you're just using them wrong or not playing like a team should.
Why couldn't gorges <b>BE</b> the alien commander? No top down view. Gorges build all structures. Ability allows you to belly slide to spread infestation (outside of the normally expanding stuff). For upgrades, the gorges walk up to the hive/whip/structure, and hit use, a menu comes up with upgrades. Only gorges can do it, and multiple gorges have to communicate to not waste res.
It's a great balance, and fixes one thing that bugs me. Alien comm can drop infestation anywhere, even in MS as long as s/he has the energy. There is no stopping it with any sort of blockade or technology (yet). But if a playable lifeform is responsile, s/he can't waltz into marine territory and startsbelly sliding nfestation everywhere.
NO, it doesn't have to be belly sliding, but I think it would look neat.
It can heal, which is very helpful for keeping structures alive as they are difficult to heal with crags, they can spread infestation which can be useful (especially if they make the mini patches permanent which I imagine they will once DI is implemented properly, along with auto growing) and they can build hydras, which are getting a buff as we speak because of prediction and they fill an otherwise absent role in the alien defence options.
Compared to all of the other classes whose only function is 'kill stuff' this is fairly interesting I think.
Personally, I think it's a good change, gorges in NS1 weren't important, they were a neccesary mechanic, the only reason they were important is because they were the only way of performing a required alien game mechanic, not because of how they play or because of their class abilities, but simply because they had all of the alien building elements dumped into their secondary menu. Frankly I always found it pretty sloppy, it didn't work very well and caused more problems than it was worth, it also doesn't at all tie into the 'hive mind' idea or whatever because having several players all running around doing their own thing is the very opposite of what 'hive mind' actually means.
If you must express nebulous concepts in the gameplay of NS2, the alien commander expresses the 'hive mind' one much better, as it gives the entire alien base element a single unified direction, with the drifters, expansions, infestation and buildings all working under the same idea.
Why couldn't gorges <b>BE</b> the alien commander? No top down view. Gorges build all structures. Ability allows you to belly slide to spread infestation (outside of the normally expanding stuff). For upgrades, the gorges walk up to the hive/whip/structure, and hit use, a menu comes up with upgrades. Only gorges can do it, and multiple gorges have to communicate to not waste res.
It's a great balance, and fixes one thing that bugs me. Alien comm can drop infestation anywhere, even in MS as long as s/he has the energy. There is no stopping it with any sort of blockade or technology (yet). But if a playable lifeform is responsile, s/he can't waltz into marine territory and startsbelly sliding nfestation everywhere.
NO, it doesn't have to be belly sliding, but I think it would look neat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is pretty much what the alien side was like in NS1 and UWE switched to the alien comm because this was very hard to scale with player count (i.e. you could balance it for a 2v2 or 10v10, but not both at the same time).
Also, gorge is very effective if you use it properly. People underestimate how good the heal spray as it can 1) repair alien structures faster than marines can kill them, 2) heal attacking skulks/lerks/fades, 3) do damage to marines. The major thing I'd like to see changed is for the bile attack to do much more damage against structures. Right now its so weak as to be useless in most situations.
Also, does anyone have any idea what Bacteria and/or Corpulence will do? I can imagine Bacteria may buff Heal- and/or Infestation Spray, but no idea what Corpulence could be.
Also, does anyone have any idea what Bacteria and/or Corpulence will do? I can imagine Bacteria may buff Heal- and/or Infestation Spray, but no idea what Corpulence could be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually no, I like to hope this was an attempt at humor on your part.
on more series note of how infestation can be spread by the gorge, which I've said number of times before.
Bring back bile bomb (you can change the name of this ability if you want) as we all understand infestation harms marine buildings, and we need the gorge to spread infestation. Well, bile bomb creates a big splash on impact, through this effect infestation can spread and at the same time the gorge can use this ability to help destroy marine buildings.
two abilities put into one, and removing the current ugly yellow circle to spread infestation is badly needed. this idea is sound, and if you actually see bile bomb effect you notice it does make sense infestation being spread through this ability would be a great addition.
You can hope all you want, but that doesn't really explain why or pose any constructive argument against it. It modifies a pre-existing ability (no need to produce additional assets), and buffs it such that it's actually useful and not just "cute". Occam's Razor.
Also, I'm pretty sure if they implemented any sort of bilebomb, the "ugly yellow circle" that you insist (for no apparent reason) NEEDS to go would likely still be used, because players still need some indication of where you're firing.
And yes, seeing that yellow ugly circle is annoying, its prototype idea in the first place, and if they promote the bile bomb idea would not only give gorges better role on the battlefield but it would be more pleasant to watch them spread infestation. As of right now the three inch patches they drop aren't worth the energy. have you actually tried spreading infestation as the gorge? its good idea, but very poor system.
to further explain how the gorge would get this ability, we can have options.
1.once the second hive is up, the gorges ability become unlocked
2.once the second hive is up, the commander has to research it
it will be tier 2 upgrade so gorges cannot spam it in the start of the game.
Heck, I'd like to see Hydras created in that way, it'd certainly feel more dynamic if I could just hurl an egg at a wall rather than have to hop up on a crate or something and put the hydra there as if I'm gluing the bottom of it to the wall.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it has a more "alien like" feel to it aside from actually making sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just so we're clear here, I'm understanding this as you asserting that my suggestion (not the current implementation) is:
1) Inferior to yours in <i>consistency of style</i>, and
2) Illogical
With that: "Alien like" feel by whose definition? NS2's? NS1's? H.R. Giger's? Because I'm suggesting that they work with what they already have, which is what defines the "alien like" feel, whereas you're suggesting that they remove part of what already defines the "alien like" feel and then... that's supposed to add to the "alien like" feel? Your suggestion is paradoxical unless you're conception of "alien feel" is coming from outside sources. And how does what I suggest not make sense? Have you never made toast?
indeed you are, but you are too focused on the current ns2 abilities without even looking at what ns1 was about. So try to work with what we already had actually working before. (not this current ns2 mess)
But hey, if you think spreading infestation using belly slide, why not? you might as well use my idea from other threat and add axe as an attachment to the shotgun.
in all seriousness, I'm working with what we already have, I took working abilities which does indeed worked like a charm before and tweaked to do something else. While giving the class wider roles to play. Since we all being a gorge now is next to completely useless.
If bile bomb (name can be changed) can be used to spread infestation from the bile splash, and infestation suppose to harm marine buildings, the gorge class would benefit more from this.
Healspray to spread infestation.
Bilebomb(?) to spread infestation.
Belly slide to spread infestation.
And remove the current circular infestation spreading ability.
....am I in the wrong board?
The aliens having a commander instantly takes them from zerg-like beasts obeying instinct to melee-only marines with alien skins. Terrible terrible idea.
He had a little too much power in NS 1, atleast for my taste.
In my oppinion everyone got a their roles now:
Gorge: Supporter
Lerker: Ranged DPS
Fade: Melee DPS
Onus: Tank?
The aliens having a commander instantly takes them from zerg-like beasts obeying instinct to melee-only marines with alien skins. Terrible terrible idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An impressive feat given that it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on any alien class other than the gorge, who has had some of his rather excessive repertoire removed and assigned to the much more practical top down perspective role. Clearly therefore there wasn't much difference to begin with if that's all it takes to make so huge a change.
To call the alien commander a commander is a bit silly really given that they don't command anything, I don't even think they can give orders, they just place buildings and control them. It's more like they created a new 'building controller class' than a commander, which is sensible given that the gorge method didn't work.
He had a little too much power in NS 1, atleast for my taste.
In my oppinion everyone got a their roles now:
Gorge: Supporter
Lerker: Ranged DPS
Fade: Melee DPS
Onus: Tank?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, except there's nothing to support. Suicide skulk rushes are the #1 most common activity so far in NS2. No support opportunity. Lerks often camp in places gorges can't help them. Fades would be a possibility to support.
Also, the gorge's #1 way of supporting players, through chambers, has been stripped. Defense chambers > gorge spray most of the time, with their weaknesses being stationary + siege cannon. Sensory was handy, and movement chambers essential. Gorges also used to have a job in maintaining little bases - that's kind of boring if you have to fight with the comm to place a building for you.
I made a thread a while back for the whole gorge-should-be-commander thing, but got shot down, too.
The problem with NS2 is currently still how people really don't know how to effectively use their res yet. There always seems to be a surplus. I realized at some point that I could go gorge and put a plenty of hydras in all our bases, AND even have some 7-8 hydras left for an offensive push. But I guess there could be more personal res drains, too. Maybe the shift and shade will present some opportunities? Same thing for marine team.