<!--quoteo(post=1834082:date=Feb 21 2011, 12:51 PM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Feb 21 2011, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes but, without a commander to lead the aliens around they will most likely just do thier own thing. In the games that I play the commander doesn't do much to tell us what to do (Kharaa side) they just advance the infestation and build things. I find this useful and it also means that the commander doesn't rely on the players. So, that means you have freewill in the game as an Alien.
In the marine game that I played I had a very good marine commander who was leading us around. I like to be told what to do on the marine side but if that happens on the Kharaa side I won't be very happy.
Basically, I like the kharaa because I have freewill in killing who I want and what I want.
I like the marine side because there is organisation and it seems to fit well when you are told what to do as a group.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my experience people do their own thing anyway, whether there is a commander around or not.
If someone likes organisation, they will organise without a formal commander role, if they like running around doing their own thing, they'll do it whether they have orders or not.
<!--quoteo(post=1834128:date=Feb 21 2011, 04:53 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Feb 21 2011, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834128"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commanders should be important. Working as intended.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1834127:date=Feb 21 2011, 04:29 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Feb 21 2011, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834127"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my experience people do their own thing anyway, whether there is a commander around or not.
If someone likes organisation, they will organise without a formal commander role, if they like running around doing their own thing, they'll do it whether they have orders or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you haven't played a game with a good commander.
<!--quoteo(post=1834130:date=Feb 21 2011, 05:19 PM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Feb 21 2011, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then you haven't played a game with a good commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whether or not people listen to you has very little to do with your ability as a commander.
Put simply, people have no reason to listen to you if they don't want to, you can't do anything bad to them if they don't, they won't find the game more fun by doing so if they don't like listening to you, and you have no method of directly compelling them to follow instructions.
So if people don't want to follow the commander, they won't follow the commander, simple as that.
Only if they aren't able to simply kill everything in their path. I've had some success simply following around particularly good marines and dropping structures in their wake.
Very interesting reading with a lot of valid points and info from new and seasoned players. I hope this Info is picked over by the devs before it gets lost in "posted" land.
As far as players working with comm: Rewards. In NS 1 it was "your doing a great job so your first to get a shiny new shotgun".
Now it seems that gaining resources for weapons is actually too easy, and that offer of a weapon or means to purchase said weapon doesn't have the motivation as it used to.
Maybe steam achievements is the answer to good comm/player relations. Say....Achievement "Good Little Soldier" could be 100 successful games with orders followed or "The Boss" could be 100 games successfully commanded.
I dunno, it all come down to trial and error but everyone has to work as a team. that's the whole thing about NS1 and what made the mod so popular it evolved into this game while still holding onto "TEAM-WORK" in it's truest since.
<!--quoteo(post=1834130:date=Feb 21 2011, 05:19 PM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Feb 21 2011, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then you haven't played a game with a good commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No really, Chris has a valid point. People are people and do as they please.
If you were a commander, and you consider yourself good and I had join a server with a few people just to troll the crap out of it by doing something that wouldn't benefit the marines I would do it, whether or not you told me to do something else.
The key point here is, the commander doesn't actually have control over players like RTS gamers do. It's really just a click and build and ammo/hp support class.
<!--quoteo(post=1834022:date=Feb 21 2011, 01:19 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 21 2011, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't post comments like this. No offence, but they are ignorant.
CS which had the smallest learning curve in any game I have played, yet player skill was probably the most diverse and varied than any other game I have played.
Games that require one person to play at a high level are limited, in that you are not dealing with a team of players who have to organise themselves, communicate and rely on one another. This is where the internet, team play and the like take gaming to that next level and should be encouraged further.
As for saying that it should be hard to 'learn' the game, that is a stupid comment. You'll take the games industry back in time like Marty McFly saying things like that.
The only complex thing that this game should have is the game play mechanics, but they should be easy to wrap your head around, understand and learn.
You repeatedly get threads on here regarding 'consoles are this', 'pc games are that' and it is truly rubbish.
As casual gamer wants to jump on and play, the market understands that demographic and therefore designs around it.
The hardcore / PC community like more depth, so the game takes longer to learn.
But in no way should you make the learning process harder for any game. I believe it is possible to have a complex game and yet create a learning curve (this has nothing to do with the games complexity) that allows any person to sit down and start effectively learning the game from the moment they open the application until they are in a CC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This answers a lot of posts here, some are clever but some people just post what they like/don't like or they get the point of this topic wrong and come crying "Don't touch my commander". Please for the benefits of UWE if they read this topic, try to be constructive.
I personnaly don't want commander to be removed, I think it's a great aspect of the game, I just think that it poses some issues currently, because for instance : if you have no commander/a bad commander, you will never get new weapons/aliens, and unless the other team is in the same state, you will lose, so let's say that the commander is currently "overpowered" if you use it wel, but that's my opinion. People talking about trying to make an easier learning curve have a good point, I think that's one of the part that should be most worked on.
But people shouldn't feel forced to go in commander, in addition, if you are a bad commander but jumps in because noone does, you'll be blamed/insulted because people will tell you they lost the game because of you. So it's role is currently so important that it scares new players (like me) away.
This answers a lot of posts here, some are clever but some people just post what they like/don't like or they get the point of this topic wrong and come crying "Don't touch my commander". Please for the benefits of UWE if they read this topic, try to be constructive.
I personnaly don't want commander to be removed, I think it's a great aspect of the game, I just think that it poses some issues currently, because for instance : if you have no commander/a bad commander, you will never get new weapons/aliens, and unless the other team is in the same state, you will lose, so let's say that the commander is currently "overpowered" if you use it wel, but that's my opinion. People talking about trying to make an easier learning curve have a good point, I think that's one of the part that should be most worked on.
But people shouldn't feel forced to go in commander, in addition, if you are a bad commander but jumps in because noone does, you'll be blamed/insulted because people will tell you they lost the game because of you. So it's role is currently so important that it scares new players (like me) away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It might scare some players away but it also attracts others. I never would have bought NS2 if there were no commanders. There is really no way you can make the commander position 1. fun to play 2. easy to learn 3. useful
IMO 1 and 3 take priority. Its not like you HAVE to command. Also it is pretty easy to learn how to command by playing the game. I've played a lot of rts/fps hybrids including ns1 and I was comming alien and marine teams to victory pretty consistently within an hour of playing as infantry. Aliens more so though as its stupid easy to win by rushing fades. Although if you can hold on with marines till flamethrowers/shotguns and you medpack spam you can GG pretty much any game if your team sticks together.
Best advice for new players is don't command. Learn the basics first, pay attention to what experienced commanders do, and what works and what doesn't. There is no way to be a good comm if you don't have a good grasps of the basics and what your team needs in a given situation.
Its like HON/DOTA, 1 person can easily ###### your whole team over. It is the nature of the game, it has benefits and downsides. Downsides being good pub games tend to be rarer. Upside is a completely different level of teamwork/complexity that you don't have in traditional FPSs.
<!--quoteo(post=1834167:date=Feb 21 2011, 10:20 PM:name=communism)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (communism @ Feb 21 2011, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but you only have 1600 psr<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. I have 1700 PSR and 1720 IRL 2. I only have like 30 MM games 3. I never play. 4. You couldn't even build a hive as comm even though you were in there for like 10 minutes.
Also did u see my breakycpk post on emp forums in off-topic? Sexy.
The commander was important on NS1, just like it is onhere. But a player with good aim is just as vital to the team as a commander is.. I never have the feeling I'm loosing the game just because the commander is bad (unless he's afwull :-) ), you loose the game as a team, and if te commander is really to bad, just switch :p
Well in the end, to be a good commander you have to be a good marine. By that I mean, you need to know the flow of the game first. If you have played marine long enough, you should know the simple strategies and procedures to winning a game or at least have a fighting chance. This translates into being a good com.
<!--quoteo(post=1834022:date=Feb 20 2011, 06:19 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 20 2011, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't post comments like this. No offence, but they are ignorant.
CS which had the smallest learning curve in any game I have played<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you surprised? CS only required you to do two things:
Buy a weapon. Shoot.
The initial learning curve IS very shallow and the barrier to entry is very low, which is what Runteh is saying. However, there is a huge room for improvement, which is why a new player will get dominated by a veteran.
Oh, I should probably state that for Chris, NS2 marines also boils down to, in its simplest form:
Buy a weapon. Shoot.
But this is wrong. This will not win you the game, nor should it. This gross oversimplification that he's so fond of is a delusion.
<!--quoteo(post=1834137:date=Feb 21 2011, 06:52 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Feb 21 2011, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whether or not people listen to you has very little to do with your ability as a commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow that got to be the dumbest thing I've heard all day, and I've listened to Qaddafi's speech.
good to see some realize what CS was about and NS2 becoming to be! :D
been fighting to change things like that for awhile. their is too much separation between commander and marines, ns1 commanding style must return for marines to start depending more on good commanders, and commanders depending on good marines to defend base/objectives.
another issues is alien commanding is too much like marine commanding. Even with gorges able to drop DI now, they still all they can do is spam hydras. They should at least should be able to drop RTs as they have done before.
BTW this was one of the funniest thread titles (to me at least)
So the problem is that commanding is too hard... I don't find it too hard because the tech tree is not too deep and there aren't alot of building to select to upgrade. I think if you are a noob commander ask for help...seriously... I would rather hear ..."I don't know what to build next" ... than nothing and then ...gg other team.
I find the problem I have been seeing is that commanders aren't communicating much.
No waypoints No voice No text
We all run around random until the commander says the base is being attacked. The communication level has to improve on several levels.
One method I thought of is instead of waypoints there could be activities. Let's start with defend and patrol. Instead of there simply a waypoint you would have a context either show on the waypoint or in your HUD. (Defend this point) When you respawn the same context is still present. When the commander selects you he sees your current context and related points (already he sees your name...huge improvement) That way if he sees you running to and fro and he's like why? he sees your last command was ...patrol ... and he is like no no no attack this (blip).
This would bring the interaction level between a mute commander who hates to type much higher. Eventually he/she may even talk to the players being commanded. (god sakes)
So that's my thoughts on the commander problem. I think NS2 commanding is far easier...and i think commanders need to start communicating better.
<!--quoteo(post=1834397:date=Feb 22 2011, 09:37 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Feb 22 2011, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BTW this was one of the funniest thread titles (to me at least)
So the problem is that commanding is too hard... I don't find it too hard because the tech tree is not too deep and there aren't alot of building to select to upgrade. I think if you are a noob commander ask for help...seriously... I would rather hear ..."I don't know what to build next" ... than nothing and then ...gg other team.
I find the problem I have been seeing is that commanders aren't communicating much.
No waypoints No voice No text
We all run around random until the commander says the base is being attacked. The communication level has to improve on several levels.
One method I thought of is instead of waypoints there could be activities. Let's start with defend and patrol. Instead of there simply a waypoint you would have a context either show on the waypoint or in your HUD. (Defend this point) When you respawn the same context is still present. When the commander selects you he sees your current context and related points (already he sees your name...huge improvement) That way if he sees you running to and fro and he's like why? he sees your last command was ...patrol ... and he is like no no no attack this (blip).
This would bring the interaction level between a mute commander who hates to type much higher. Eventually he/she may even talk to the players being commanded. (god sakes)
So that's my thoughts on the commander problem. I think NS2 commanding is far easier...and i think commanders need to start communicating better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion the marines don't need the commander as much as they used to need him in NS1.
The commander doesn't buy guns anymore so they don't need him for that. The commander doesn't needs his team to help him build as he has robots to do that now.
I think the game needs to be MORE based on the commanders. I really dissagree with the title of this thread...
<!--quoteo(post=1834168:date=Feb 21 2011, 10:31 PM:name=Simon493)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Simon493 @ Feb 21 2011, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. I have 1700 PSR and 1720 IRL 2. I only have like 30 MM games 3. I never play. 4. You couldn't even build a hive as comm even though you were in there for like 10 minutes.
Also did u see my breakycpk post on emp forums in off-topic? Sexy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. I carried you 2. Excuses 3. Nerd 4. Lerk doesn't have bite anymore
<!--quoteo(post=1834385:date=Feb 23 2011, 08:13 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Feb 23 2011, 08:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834385"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->another issues is alien commanding is too much like marine commanding. Even with gorges able to drop DI now, they still all they can do is spam hydras. They should at least should be able to drop RTs as they have done before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THis I think is the recurring theme of all the commander threads, the need for aliens comm to play noticably different to marines and not simply
due to different models but different role/dynamic with the team.
I dont think anyone is saying the marines should not have the commander, its just how the alien commander integrates.
For the aliens I believe the role of the commander needs to be different to that of the marines. The aliens should be less reliant on the comm.
Gorges need to be able to build RT's and chambers (but let the alien comm set the tech path), currently gorges might as well not be in the game.
the alien comms role needs to be less involved as the melee play style of the aliens means they will need to additional body in game more.
I'm all for the marketplace of ideas but Its getting a a lot harder for me to read through the forums as the games popularity is growing; There are certainly a handful of others opinions that i enjoy reading much more because i feel like they have been given more thought and sort of take into account a big picture. Usually i go through and address specific posts and ideas in threads but i don't have the time to read through the volume so much anymore. Anyway maybe I'll make a steam group of a bunch of people and we'll discuss things thoroughly then post on here... but i would never discourage people from posting there ideas on anything because maybe 1 out of 100 posts will be a really good idea.
Sorry this came out way longer than I intended.. i hope you relate to all of the following examples
Situations; #3. Being the most common
As Commander 1. Having a good players that follow your orders and execute them. -You get the resources you need to provide your team with weapons and upgrades; they hold down positions while resources grow, they don't die as much because they work together on a tactical level.
2.You have a team that follows orders but they aren't as skilled. -Things don't go as smoothly, you get pushed back some..you get upgrades more slowly. Outcome could go either way depending if your players can hold stuff down and push. Marines complain and start telling you things you need to buy/do with resources you probably don't have.
3. You have a bunch of players that go off and do whatever they want (skill doesn't matter). They run and push positions by themselves usually just end up dying or running back to base getting nothing done. Depending on alien team.. if they are doing the same thing... appears as a decent game. Or you get totally stomped by a halfway organized alien team and the commander gets blamed.
As Marine: 1.You follow orders and your teammates are with you, you get stuff done under the guidance of commander= awesome. You feel like teamwork happened.
2.Players get discouraged and start blaming the commander for things he can't do anything about, you push together but sometimes comes back as futile attempt; sometimes it works. You don't get the guns/upgrades you want
3. Interesting enough i feel like marines running around doing there own thing is sort of acceptable to them right now... The game is really fun but this is not a long term positive thing to the game. There's nothing that makes you feel part of a team right now. I think squad commanders could remedy this some, a good thing would be without thinking your natural reaction is to follow this player and group. Not for some random bonus for being in proximity but just feeling like its the thing you should do.
4. Creating your own little wrecking crew as a marine; This is what i do; i mean.. regardless of what the commander is doing.. at this point anyways.. if you get shotguns and 2-3 other marines to follow what you say and go with you.. you can win the game by yourselves. This is a good thing.. it just is showing that in this game working together is super powerful and individual effort is not nearly as effective.
The only thing that would limit a "squad" or group of players on a larger map say.. is ammo and eventual wearing down of health.. and this is where you would NEED the commander to help you. As it happens the maps are super tiny compared to ns1..you pretty much were really far from any sort of armory. Pushing to the next room or resource was not something you could just get to in 10 seconds.. it took a little while and left you pretty stranded.
I'd point to TF2 as a alternative example to this sort of thing where a small group of players working together can dominate a larger group of unorganized ones.
Comments
ONLY gorges can enter the hive :D
To be alien commander, you must be a gorge. Gorges cost plasma to evolve into.
To be marine commander, you must be a marine. Marines cost nothing.
In the marine game that I played I had a very good marine commander who was leading us around. I like to be told what to do on the marine side but if that happens on the Kharaa side I won't be very happy.
Basically, I like the kharaa because I have freewill in killing who I want and what I want.
I like the marine side because there is organisation and it seems to fit well when you are told what to do as a group.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my experience people do their own thing anyway, whether there is a commander around or not.
If someone likes organisation, they will organise without a formal commander role, if they like running around doing their own thing, they'll do it whether they have orders or not.
+1
If someone likes organisation, they will organise without a formal commander role, if they like running around doing their own thing, they'll do it whether they have orders or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you haven't played a game with a good commander.
Whether or not people listen to you has very little to do with your ability as a commander.
Put simply, people have no reason to listen to you if they don't want to, you can't do anything bad to them if they don't, they won't find the game more fun by doing so if they don't like listening to you, and you have no method of directly compelling them to follow instructions.
So if people don't want to follow the commander, they won't follow the commander, simple as that.
As far as players working with comm: Rewards. In NS 1 it was "your doing a great job so your first to get a shiny new shotgun".
Now it seems that gaining resources for weapons is actually too easy, and that offer of a weapon or means to purchase said weapon doesn't have the motivation as it used to.
Maybe steam achievements is the answer to good comm/player relations. Say....Achievement "Good Little Soldier" could be 100 successful games with orders followed or "The Boss" could be 100 games successfully commanded.
I dunno, it all come down to trial and error but everyone has to work as a team. that's the whole thing about NS1 and what made the mod so popular it evolved into this game while still holding onto "TEAM-WORK" in it's truest since.
No really, Chris has a valid point. People are people and do as they please.
If you were a commander, and you consider yourself good and I had join a server with a few people just to troll the crap out of it by doing something that wouldn't benefit the marines I would do it, whether or not you told me to do something else.
The key point here is, the commander doesn't actually have control over players like RTS gamers do. It's really just a click and build and ammo/hp support class.
<!--quoteo(post=1834022:date=Feb 21 2011, 01:19 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 21 2011, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't post comments like this. No offence, but they are ignorant.
CS which had the smallest learning curve in any game I have played, yet player skill was probably the most diverse and varied than any other game I have played.
Games that require one person to play at a high level are limited, in that you are not dealing with a team of players who have to organise themselves, communicate and rely on one another. This is where the internet, team play and the like take gaming to that next level and should be encouraged further.
As for saying that it should be hard to 'learn' the game, that is a stupid comment. You'll take the games industry back in time like Marty McFly saying things like that.
The only complex thing that this game should have is the game play mechanics, but they should be easy to wrap your head around, understand and learn.
You repeatedly get threads on here regarding 'consoles are this', 'pc games are that' and it is truly rubbish.
As casual gamer wants to jump on and play, the market understands that demographic and therefore designs around it.
The hardcore / PC community like more depth, so the game takes longer to learn.
But in no way should you make the learning process harder for any game. I believe it is possible to have a complex game and yet create a learning curve (this has nothing to do with the games complexity) that allows any person to sit down and start effectively learning the game from the moment they open the application until they are in a CC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This answers a lot of posts here, some are clever but some people just post what they like/don't like or they get the point of this topic wrong and come crying "Don't touch my commander". Please for the benefits of UWE if they read this topic, try to be constructive.
I personnaly don't want commander to be removed, I think it's a great aspect of the game, I just think that it poses some issues currently, because for instance : if you have no commander/a bad commander, you will never get new weapons/aliens, and unless the other team is in the same state, you will lose, so let's say that the commander is currently "overpowered" if you use it wel, but that's my opinion.
People talking about trying to make an easier learning curve have a good point, I think that's one of the part that should be most worked on.
But people shouldn't feel forced to go in commander, in addition, if you are a bad commander but jumps in because noone does, you'll be blamed/insulted because people will tell you they lost the game because of you. So it's role is currently so important that it scares new players (like me) away.
This answers a lot of posts here, some are clever but some people just post what they like/don't like or they get the point of this topic wrong and come crying "Don't touch my commander". Please for the benefits of UWE if they read this topic, try to be constructive.
I personnaly don't want commander to be removed, I think it's a great aspect of the game, I just think that it poses some issues currently, because for instance : if you have no commander/a bad commander, you will never get new weapons/aliens, and unless the other team is in the same state, you will lose, so let's say that the commander is currently "overpowered" if you use it wel, but that's my opinion.
People talking about trying to make an easier learning curve have a good point, I think that's one of the part that should be most worked on.
But people shouldn't feel forced to go in commander, in addition, if you are a bad commander but jumps in because noone does, you'll be blamed/insulted because people will tell you they lost the game because of you. So it's role is currently so important that it scares new players (like me) away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It might scare some players away but it also attracts others. I never would have bought NS2 if there were no commanders. There is really no way you can make the commander position 1. fun to play 2. easy to learn 3. useful
IMO 1 and 3 take priority. Its not like you HAVE to command. Also it is pretty easy to learn how to command by playing the game. I've played a lot of rts/fps hybrids including ns1 and I was comming alien and marine teams to victory pretty consistently within an hour of playing as infantry. Aliens more so though as its stupid easy to win by rushing fades. Although if you can hold on with marines till flamethrowers/shotguns and you medpack spam you can GG pretty much any game if your team sticks together.
Best advice for new players is don't command. Learn the basics first, pay attention to what experienced commanders do, and what works and what doesn't. There is no way to be a good comm if you don't have a good grasps of the basics and what your team needs in a given situation.
Its like HON/DOTA, 1 person can easily ###### your whole team over. It is the nature of the game, it has benefits and downsides. Downsides being good pub games tend to be rarer. Upside is a completely different level of teamwork/complexity that you don't have in traditional FPSs.
1. I have 1700 PSR and 1720 IRL
2. I only have like 30 MM games
3. I never play.
4. You couldn't even build a hive as comm even though you were in there for like 10 minutes.
Also did u see my breakycpk post on emp forums in off-topic? Sexy.
I never have the feeling I'm loosing the game just because the commander is bad (unless he's afwull :-) ), you loose the game as a team, and if te commander is really to bad, just switch :p
CS which had the smallest learning curve in any game I have played<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just.. wow
Buy a weapon.
Shoot.
The initial learning curve IS very shallow and the barrier to entry is very low, which is what Runteh is saying. However, there is a huge room for improvement, which is why a new player will get dominated by a veteran.
Oh, I should probably state that for Chris, NS2 marines also boils down to, in its simplest form:
Buy a weapon.
Shoot.
But this is wrong. This will not win you the game, nor should it. This gross oversimplification that he's so fond of is a delusion.
buy a weapon.
shoot.
lose.
<b>marine + commander:</b>
buy a weapon.
shoot.
medpack spam.
win.
see? you need a commander.
Wow that got to be the dumbest thing I've heard all day, and I've listened to Qaddafi's speech.
been fighting to change things like that for awhile. their is too much separation between commander and marines, ns1 commanding style must return for marines to start depending more on good commanders, and commanders depending on good marines to defend base/objectives.
another issues is alien commanding is too much like marine commanding. Even with gorges able to drop DI now, they still all they can do is spam hydras. They should at least should be able to drop RTs as they have done before.
So the problem is that commanding is too hard...
I don't find it too hard because the tech tree is not too deep and there aren't alot of building to select to upgrade.
I think if you are a noob commander ask for help...seriously...
I would rather hear ..."I don't know what to build next" ... than nothing and then ...gg other team.
I find the problem I have been seeing is that commanders aren't communicating much.
No waypoints
No voice
No text
We all run around random until the commander says the base is being attacked.
The communication level has to improve on several levels.
One method I thought of is instead of waypoints there could be activities.
Let's start with defend and patrol.
Instead of there simply a waypoint you would have a context either show on the waypoint or in your HUD. (Defend this point)
When you respawn the same context is still present.
When the commander selects you he sees your current context and related points (already he sees your name...huge improvement)
That way if he sees you running to and fro and he's like why? he sees your last command was ...patrol ... and he is like no no no attack this (blip).
This would bring the interaction level between a mute commander who hates to type much higher.
Eventually he/she may even talk to the players being commanded. (god sakes)
So that's my thoughts on the commander problem.
I think NS2 commanding is far easier...and i think commanders need to start communicating better.
So the problem is that commanding is too hard...
I don't find it too hard because the tech tree is not too deep and there aren't alot of building to select to upgrade.
I think if you are a noob commander ask for help...seriously...
I would rather hear ..."I don't know what to build next" ... than nothing and then ...gg other team.
I find the problem I have been seeing is that commanders aren't communicating much.
No waypoints
No voice
No text
We all run around random until the commander says the base is being attacked.
The communication level has to improve on several levels.
One method I thought of is instead of waypoints there could be activities.
Let's start with defend and patrol.
Instead of there simply a waypoint you would have a context either show on the waypoint or in your HUD. (Defend this point)
When you respawn the same context is still present.
When the commander selects you he sees your current context and related points (already he sees your name...huge improvement)
That way if he sees you running to and fro and he's like why? he sees your last command was ...patrol ... and he is like no no no attack this (blip).
This would bring the interaction level between a mute commander who hates to type much higher.
Eventually he/she may even talk to the players being commanded. (god sakes)
So that's my thoughts on the commander problem.
I think NS2 commanding is far easier...and i think commanders need to start communicating better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion the marines don't need the commander as much as they used to need him in NS1.
The commander doesn't buy guns anymore so they don't need him for that. The commander doesn't needs his team to help him build as he has robots to do that now.
I think the game needs to be MORE based on the commanders.
I really dissagree with the title of this thread...
2. I only have like 30 MM games
3. I never play.
4. You couldn't even build a hive as comm even though you were in there for like 10 minutes.
Also did u see my breakycpk post on emp forums in off-topic? Sexy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I carried you
2. Excuses
3. Nerd
4. Lerk doesn't have bite anymore
THis I think is the recurring theme of all the commander threads, the need for aliens comm to play noticably different to marines and not simply
due to different models but different role/dynamic with the team.
I dont think anyone is saying the marines should not have the commander, its just how the alien commander integrates.
For the aliens I believe the role of the commander needs to be different to that of the marines. The aliens should be less reliant on the comm.
Gorges need to be able to build RT's and chambers (but let the alien comm set the tech path), currently gorges might as well not be in the game.
the alien comms role needs to be less involved as the melee play style of the aliens means they will need to additional body in game more.
Sorry this came out way longer than I intended.. i hope you relate to all of the following examples
Situations; #3. Being the most common
As Commander
1. Having a good players that follow your orders and execute them.
-You get the resources you need to provide your team with weapons and upgrades; they hold down positions while resources grow, they don't die as much because they work together on a tactical level.
2.You have a team that follows orders but they aren't as skilled.
-Things don't go as smoothly, you get pushed back some..you get upgrades more slowly. Outcome could go either way depending if your players can hold stuff down and push.
Marines complain and start telling you things you need to buy/do with resources you probably don't have.
3. You have a bunch of players that go off and do whatever they want (skill doesn't matter). They run and push positions by themselves usually just end up dying or running back to base getting nothing done. Depending on alien team.. if they are doing the same thing... appears as a decent game. Or you get totally stomped by a halfway organized alien team and the commander gets blamed.
As Marine:
1.You follow orders and your teammates are with you, you get stuff done under the guidance of commander= awesome. You feel like teamwork happened.
2.Players get discouraged and start blaming the commander for things he can't do anything about, you push together but sometimes comes back as futile attempt; sometimes it works. You don't get the guns/upgrades you want
3. Interesting enough i feel like marines running around doing there own thing is sort of acceptable to them right now... The game is really fun but this is not a long term positive thing to the game. There's nothing that makes you feel part of a team right now. I think squad commanders could remedy this some, a good thing would be without thinking your natural reaction is to follow this player and group. Not for some random bonus for being in proximity but just feeling like its the thing you should do.
4. Creating your own little wrecking crew as a marine; This is what i do; i mean.. regardless of what the commander is doing.. at this point anyways.. if you get shotguns and 2-3 other marines to follow what you say and go with you.. you can win the game by yourselves. This is a good thing.. it just is showing that in this game working together is super powerful and individual effort is not nearly as effective.
The only thing that would limit a "squad" or group of players on a larger map say.. is ammo and eventual wearing down of health.. and this is where you would NEED the commander to help you. As it happens the maps are super tiny compared to ns1..you pretty much were really far from any sort of armory. Pushing to the next room or resource was not something you could just get to in 10 seconds.. it took a little while and left you pretty stranded.
I'd point to TF2 as a alternative example to this sort of thing where a small group of players working together can dominate a larger group of unorganized ones.