One thing that is bothering me about turrets/hydras
VeNeM
Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
Why cant turrets shoot upwards at angles? If a gorge got into marine start and placed hydras on the ceiling would that render turrets useless? Also, a skulk on a ceiling could potentially get by turrents unscathed. could a jetpack fly over hydras if placed on the ground without taking hits as well?
Comments
The idea was they should be more powerful, but directional.
If you get behind them, you can kill them as any class, but from the front they are quite a good deterrant.
It's more interesting than the NS1 method which basically forces all aliens to tank damage from them.
agreed, they should be able to shoot up and down. and increase their cone of fire a little more.
Neg, the NS1 turret was a boring, weak, set it and forget it weapon. The new NS2 turret lends itself much more to the decision making process and strategy. They just need to tweak it to make it stronger, and fix the cone of fire.
lol this too, even gorges can just run around in the gunfire
because alot of comms place the turrets in cornes, which almost nullifies the entire weaknes of the design.
The only way to take down those turrets are to climb atop them (and then you're really vulnerable to marines, since you cant hide anywhere.
because alot of comms place the turrets in cornes, which almost nullifies the entire weaknes of the design.
The only way to take down those turrets are to climb atop them (and then you're really vulnerable to marines, since you cant hide anywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea but thats the entire design, you place it in a corner to avoid the weaknesses of the turret. it doesnt make sense that you can stand on the turret and kill it. aliens should need to coordinate to kill well placed turrets. right now its more akin to a glitch.
Also turrets really could use a short range sphere of pain like from an electrical zapper. This way 1 skulk will fail to take out 1 turret, even if he approached from the rear (as is common with skulks).
However if the game becomes clearing your way out of structure spam (which it is on marine side) it becomes real boring and fast.
ah, i guess its the same thing then, maybe theyll correct this
As for it's Range and Field of View. I'd say both need to be increased. 180 degree view and add on a couple more yards to the radius.
And yes they should be able to shoot up but not at a 90 degree angel. Maybe something like 65 degrees.
The alien set up is fine - hydras can be dropped on front lines (when finally things get fixed up better) and crags and whips behind them if needs be. We just need a decent weapon to take them down quickly. Like more powerful weapons it should have high positives (damage, range), high negatives (movement, requires team cover) for balance.
Sentries - Should be about raw strength and power in one direction, and incredibly weak in the rear, so aliens can take advantage of vents and level geometry. Therefore the skulk becomes useful throughout the game.
This would actually make for less spam, because cost or limit could be implemented to warrant that power. They would be better for sealing corridors rather than rooms as well imo. It would just play up to increasing the vent count as well, and forcing skulks to do what they should be doing. No bad thing. Remember that aliens thrive on being able to cover the map quickly, so shutting down the direct routes for them and forcing (in some cases maybe) a route that takes 3x as long is the advantage given.
It is either using them to create a front line / temporary blockage, or spamming 4 of them in each room you are in. I know which I would rather have.
Otherwise I am afraid they will just become insignificant, and not used as an 'area control' tool for marines, especially in pro play.
I would actually like to see them as more temporary solution. They would be better used like Alien Swarm - more effective but less of them. If you haven't played Alien Swarm before, below is a vid. Though usually you have maybe 2 sentries at any one time.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd3XLTHuGXk&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd3XLTHuGXk...feature=related</a>
You could make it stronger, and use assault rifle ammo, so marines would have to reload it. The high rate of fire would munch rifle ammo like popcorn, but sustained alien attacks could drain it. Lerks could spore the area so reloading the turrets would be harder or impossible.
You just have to offset numbers/damage with cost, or area limit. I think two together should block a path... on average maybe seeing 8 in total on a high point in the game for marines. 2 for each tech point, and another 2 for a major corridor or something.
I have a bad feeling about the implementation of the turret power packs. Not only do you have to knock out the power node, but also these packs. This means that for sake of balance, they will be made weaker in damage or stay as is. I really don't want to see the turret farms like you did in NS1... they looked messy, got in the way and it was public play spam.
I would rather see them as a dynamic tool for holding an area. Pushing near to the hive early game perhaps, and setting up a tech node near by. Or just securing dead ends where armouries are located for marines behind enemy lines. Perhaps only a Fade can get past at a shot... but once behind, game over. The recent video just looks odd with 3 turrets set up with fade casually walking around them with massive chain guns on them - for the sake of artistic license as well.
It would definitely make for some more interesting plays.
I think in pro games they won't get used again, because it is more efficient to gain later tech than spend on area management that effectively does not get you anywhere. they just play out the same role over and over - secure tech node, build usual buildings, add some sentries when you have money.
This is what is happening even now in servers, the good commanders just go for tech.
I really like the idea that - on tram say - you could to the entrance on central hub, drop a couple quickly - and really upset the aliens moving through that area. Forcing them to deal with the turrets, which gives you time to move safely in that area.
It would be nice to just see how this was for a while by just changing cost and damage. I really would like to see how it plays out. Considering rooms are not simple boxes that are easy to cover, I can't see how two would effectively block off aliens completely anyway. Even if they were more powerful.
I just think it looks weird and sort of makes them a little pointless, when aliens can take the piss with them and jump them and start taking you on as well. I don't want to see them being the ultimate alien death tool, just more than the 'deterrent' they are currently.
It is either using them to create a front line / temporary blockage, or spamming 4 of them in each room you are in. I know which I would rather have.
Otherwise I am afraid they will just become insignificant, and not used as an 'area control' tool for marines, especially in pro play.
I would actually like to see them as more temporary solution. They would be better used like Alien Swarm - more effective but less of them. If you haven't played Alien Swarm before, below is a vid. Though usually you have maybe 2 sentries at any one time.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd3XLTHuGXk&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd3XLTHuGXk...feature=related</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they were never a permanent solution, I use them for early ground control/general harassment. and honestly thats all I want turrets to be able to do. I just want the damn things to be able to shoot upwards at an angle and have a bit more range because the current range is so useless. by the time a skulk gets in range hes half a second from being behind it which forces you to place 4 in a room. currenly aliens are completely safe 2 feet away if they are at a particular angle because the turret cant see it.
Hell, reduce the FOV to 60 - as long as they actually make me feel safe when I am behind one. Or I can shut down a vital crossroads for the aliens for a while. Just so I can take hold of an area, or run to it without having to worry too much about being attacked from the front.
Seriously.. what is the difference between using 2 great sentries to cover directional movement that get used in competitive play. Compared to having to spam 7 at every tech point / res node.
At least you would think more about where your could place them to form a fairly good protective line across the map, or use them to push a route through the map. It still wouldn't stop the aliens from getting behind them. At the moment they just suck on the barrels from the front whilst the heavy chain gun pumps out tasty marsh mellows or something.
That way you can use the two sentries afforded you per base in other to either cover a large portion of that base, or to block off a corridor from lesser lifeforms.
However, as most bases will have more than one exit, you would be hard pressed to stonewall the aliens entirely, and if you did any breach would be largely undefended once you break the frontline.
Hard caps are very useful because making things powerful but limited is often a good way to balance them. Balance by cost however has the problem of making them potentially wasteful. Better to make it always good to have them, but make them unable to be used everywhere.
The aliens would always have a hard counter against them in the form of bone shielding onoses, so turtling shouldn't be a problem, but both sides do seem to be emphasising map control in NS2, what with the door locks and directional turrets and power nodes and DI and whatnot.
I just hope sentries make an improve transition as well.