Grenade launcher finally being balanced?
Heroman117
Join Date: 2010-07-28 Member: 73268Members
Join Date: 2010-07-28 Member: 73268Members
<div class="IPBDescription">do you think this is enough?</div><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Grenades don't blow up when hitting the world, hurt firer, detonate after a time<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just saw this on the progress page and i am definatly glad that the imbalanced grenade launcher is finally being addressed. Appears that it will now act more like the demoman's primary grenade launcher from TF2 and less like the grenade launcher from call of duty.
The purpose of this topic is do you think these changes are enough to balance the grenade launcher? or do they need more than just that to be fair for the aliens?
In my opinion this isn't quite enough, it will just now allow marines to simply fire their grenades around corners. Although it may now not be as cheap anymore since marines won't be able to just fire at their feet when a skulk approaches them. I think that the damage of the grenade launcher against alien players should be lowered so that 1 grenade doesn't kill a fade instantly, and the blast radius should be reduced.
What do you think?
I just saw this on the progress page and i am definatly glad that the imbalanced grenade launcher is finally being addressed. Appears that it will now act more like the demoman's primary grenade launcher from TF2 and less like the grenade launcher from call of duty.
The purpose of this topic is do you think these changes are enough to balance the grenade launcher? or do they need more than just that to be fair for the aliens?
In my opinion this isn't quite enough, it will just now allow marines to simply fire their grenades around corners. Although it may now not be as cheap anymore since marines won't be able to just fire at their feet when a skulk approaches them. I think that the damage of the grenade launcher against alien players should be lowered so that 1 grenade doesn't kill a fade instantly, and the blast radius should be reduced.
What do you think?
Comments
However, yeah grenade launchers should maybe have some form of increased mitigation when it comes to armor? As in instead of armor counting 2hp it counts for like 2.5 or 3 hp in regards to explosives. Just an Idea. But yeah they haven't stated if they are nerfing damage or not we'll just have to wait and see.
Also: If the grenade bounces, an agile fade should be able to get away if he sees it.
Good for structures.
This would cut damage to 150 against players, giving skulks and fades a better survival chance.
This would cut damage to 150 against players, giving skulks and fades a better survival chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10m is a huge radius. the current radius is like 5m.
;)
The model and animations were cool but unless teammates were there to have your back you were pretty much defenseless or could maybe score a suicide kill shooting point blank into whatever was biting your face... it did help promoting teamwork though.
Personally I do like the GL being an attachment however, and clearly there's a few changes needed to make it appropriate as such. Plus aren't other gun attachments/upgrades planned too?
The purpose of this topic is do you think these changes are enough to balance the grenade launcher? or do they need more than just that to be fair for the aliens?
In my opinion this isn't quite enough, it will just now allow marines to simply fire their grenades around corners. Although it may now not be as cheap anymore since marines won't be able to just fire at their feet when a skulk approaches them. I think that the damage of the grenade launcher against alien players should be lowered so that 1 grenade doesn't kill a fade instantly, and the blast radius should be reduced.
What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It might. This makes it less of a bazooka/rocket propelled grenade launcher. Which is good, I think, because those sorts of weapons are too easy to aim. Little skill necessary and only huge skill can dodge it. No matter what the damage is, guaranteed damage with huge AOE attacks are generally too easy mode unless they a drawback (like delay between firing weapon and damage, like is being implemented). The damage is either too small and does nothing because the weapon can't be used more skillfully, or the damage is too high and completely owns face all the time.
Only thing left to tweak is damage. So Unknown Worlds Entertainment is on the right track :D
I do like that the grenade launcher now is an attachment. As has been said before, solo grenade launchers in NS1 were lol worthy. So not allowing a trap option at the armory is good stuff!
Go UWE!
The grenade launcher was no more overpowered then the fades lame ass 1-hit kill or a whole team of fades and lerks or the lerks room-obscuring overly damaging gas or the lerks sniper rifle or the whips + crags requiring 50+ magazines of assault-rifle spam or the gorge dropping hydra everywhere and seriously wtf their's a power node in marine start that is the 1-thing the aliens need to destroy to win (funny i don't see the equivalent easily-destroyabe hive-room-disabling structure anywhere).
Maybe when the devs fix the lag and buff the shotty, then their won't be such a massive impulse to buy the only weapons that currently work in close quarters.
yeah but aliens don't have siege tanks
repeat after me
siege
tanks
:3
1) Grenade will bounce, so you can bounce it off walls and around corners ala NS1.
2) Should have a timed delay, similar to the NS1 GL, unless you get a lucky shot and hit an alien directly.
3) Can't remember if its already like this, but it should fire in a parabolic trajectory, so you aim your rifle up a bit when launching it.
4) Damage needs tweaked. Should be similar amount of damage as the old NS1 GL. A grenade shouldn't be hurting fades or onos too much.
5) The grenade should injure you if it explodes too close. Right now you don't even need to bother shooting your gun trying to hit a skulk, just fire a grenade at the ground.
6) Price tweaking. Should be a mid-late game weapon and priced as such. Early game needs to concentrate on mostly gunwork.
It's nice the guy with the GL doesn't have to feel like he's on a suicide mission anymore.
repeat after me
siege
tanks
:3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but when are we getting siege tanks, and will they be useful against lifeforms like the more superior gl and flamethrowers :P
Not necessarily less fun, but I think having the grenade launcher as an attachment removes all the disadvantages to using the gun. In NS1 it was something of a risk to take a GL, because it has limited ammo capacity, reloads slowly, and is the least accurate of all the weapons. This was all offset by the sheer amount of damage you could do with a few well placed shots. Now, in NS2, if you get backed into a corner it's pretty easy to just cook off a few rounds from your LMG if you're out of grenades. Kind of makes it a no brainer.
I'm not saying this is bad or good, I'm just interested in what kinds of disadvantages they plan to put in place for carrying around such a powerful weapon - if any.
1) Grenade will bounce, so you can bounce it off walls and around corners ala NS1.
2) Should have a timed delay, similar to the NS1 GL, unless you get a lucky shot and hit an alien directly.
3) Can't remember if its already like this, but it should fire in a parabolic trajectory, so you aim your rifle up a bit when launching it.
4) Damage needs tweaked. Should be similar amount of damage as the old NS1 GL. A grenade shouldn't be hurting fades or onos too much.
5) The grenade should injure you if it explodes too close. Right now you don't even need to bother shooting your gun trying to hit a skulk, just fire a grenade at the ground.
6) Price tweaking. Should be a mid-late game weapon and priced as such. Early game needs to concentrate on mostly gunwork.
It's nice the guy with the GL doesn't have to feel like he's on a suicide mission anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is how the GL currently works with the changes that have been made:
1) It bounces now, just like in NS1
2) It has a timed delay unles it hits a player/structure directly
3) Has some arc to it already, but this has not been changed yet in any way
4) Damage has been decreased some
5) The Grenade injures you if it explodes too close
6) Not sure if the price has been changed, but the current res flow has been tweaked for all sides, so probably won't be as easy to buy GLs
Additionally the blast radius I believe has been decreased a bit, and the blast damage no longer goes through walls as it currently does.
--Cory
The GL should not just be a rifle, but better. Even with all the above changes, it's still going to be a clear choice to players whether or not they want a GL or regular rifle.
I think it has some disadvantages the rifle doesn't. The magnitude of those disadvantages will determine if the weapon is overpowered or not.
I think it has some disadvantages the rifle doesn't. The magnitude of those disadvantages will determine if the weapon is overpowered or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nah, i think he's pointing out the fact that you still get to use the base LMG even with the GL attachment, so it's a no-brainer whether you would want to take the attachment.
On the other hand, I think res cost factors would play a part in this. If it costs, say, 60 personal res to get the attachment, you'd find yourself really thinking about whether you wanted one or could live with a shotty/just the LMG.
On the other hand, I think res cost factors would play a part in this. If it costs, say, 60 personal res to get the attachment, you'd find yourself really thinking about whether you wanted one or could live with a shotty/just the LMG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, since res is apparently tweaked now for B157, hopefully people (including myself to be honest) wont just autorun to the armory to buy gl/ft everytime we spawn at the IP, since we cant afford it in the long run.
So far im very happy with the changes, because right now marines are more or less forced to gl-spam in order to cut through the crag/whip/hydra-jungle, tho this is almost everytime a showstopper and everybody knows it so aliens often stop caring about comming or evolving and just start to zerg things for the heck of it.
Yes, this is what I mean. In NS1, the GL was a specialty weapons. It was very powerful under certain conditions, but it left you vulnerable to close up attacks. There was a tactical choice needed to be made about how to employ the weapon. In NS2, that decision is less important because whatever the GL can't handle, the rifle will.
In NS2 you can ignore your teammates because you can survive with your comboed weapon.
NS2 should have its own GL weapon or the upgrade should have some disadvantage (lower bullet ammo capacity or prolonged switch time between modes); or implement both options, because right now teamwork is absent.
Maybe they should compensate by having a significantly reduced clip size compared to the LMG. This is still a good step forward.
Maybe they should compensate by having a significantly reduced clip size compared to the LMG. This is still a good step forward.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but the pistol is backup weapon with limited effectiveness.
Either the magazine capacity should be reduced, or there should be a significant switch time between LMG and GL.
+1. Great idea.
Main thing is you can't shoot a GL at the ground infront of you to kill anything that attack you.
What about the flamethrower? Isn't it being fixed too? It's even more powerful than the GL!