<!--quoteo(post=1811686:date=Nov 29 2010, 05:50 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Nov 29 2010, 05:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now let's delve into why you are wrong in the instance after completely thrashing you in the general case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow. lol'd.
Also, balance in an RTS is fun, yes. If it wasn't balanced, it would be unplayable. Comparing a complex game to flipping a coin? That's just silly.
Anyway, this is getting boring, I've made my point and you're of course entitled to yours :)
<!--quoteo(post=1811664:date=Nov 29 2010, 04:15 AM:name=Corporal_Fortier)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Corporal_Fortier @ Nov 29 2010, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811664"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not wish to nitpick, but consider that SC2 also has "map hacking", to some extent (sensor towers). Coupled with scans, a Terran player can get the information he wants, when he wants. Anyone facing a Terran opponent is aware of that and should adapt his play consequently. I view MT, SoF and Parasite similarly: once you know they are in play, you act accordingly, just like your example about RT munching. I agree MT it's one hell of an upgrade and it could maybe use a few downsides to make it a little more complex, like limiting it to non-DI zones or something, but even then, it's not like you can't use the opponent's upgrade to your advantage (force an all-out retreat/beacon, bait as a parasited marine, etc.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You bring up a good point, Corporal_Fortier. Yeah, SC2 does have in-game map hacking. Probably the most effective example is the Protoss observer, which is a permanently cloaked noclip unit which detects cloaked units. It does have downsides. Mostly that it has a very limited area of effect (which can be moved) and competes for production with extremely cost effective units (The Protoss Colossus is the Protoss' most cost effective ground-to-ground attacking unit <i>before its splash damage is considered</i>). It's pretty much a mobile observatory scan which lasts forever but can be killed (at a minor cost). But it still has limitations.
The sensor towers seem really good, but they are limited in use (radius of effect) and are vulnerable to attack. They are completely useful and viable otherwise. It's just that you have to make a few of them to get a really good area of effect, and if you can cover the entire map with them you've already won... so they've become a rare niche option because of their limitations. For an NS1 analogy, placing observatories often to get motion tracking instead of buying the upgrade. You'd rather tech up or place RT's or get guns for your soldiers. So there's some limitations, but the sensory tower can be a great option in certain situations (like holding off every attack on your base before a key upgrade/tech finishes and you move out to steamroll your foe).
I keep talking about limitations. It's important. I could definitely enjoy motion tracking in NS2, but only if it wasn't the perfect motion tracking of NS1.
Also, balance in an RTS is fun, yes. If it wasn't balanced, it would be unplayable. Comparing a complex game to flipping a coin? That's just silly.
Anyway, this is getting boring, I've made my point and you're of course entitled to yours :)
gl hf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never said balance was unnecessary. I was simply pointing out balance is not the only consideration. Because coin flip guessing contests are balanced but not fun. See? Counter examples are great tools.
Your arguments have failed in their entirety and now you are putting words in my mouth. I'm disappointed.
Not only that, but you have left my every other argument alone and untouched. Odd coincidence. Perhaps you just forgot? Or maybe they were all right.
And then you "leave" the conversation. Hmm. It sounds to me like you lost a fight on the internet and got bothered instead of graciously admitting defeat.
I'm only dragging this out and insulting you because you had the gall to insult me when I was right. And kept saying I was wrong when you believed I was right just to soothe your ego.
Dude, we're all wrong some time. It happens. We're not perfect. It's not the end of the world. It's unfair to judge people based on how many times they are wrong. We instead judge them on how many times they correct themselves.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
whats about removing parasites at the armory but the marine has to pay his personal res for it (sry if it was suggested already, no time to read through 4 pages)
<!--quoteo(post=1811699:date=Nov 29 2010, 10:27 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Nov 29 2010, 10:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We should remove the Heavy Armour+HMG combo from the game, it makes Skulks almost completely useless...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HMG is replaced by miniguns as far as I know which would be ideally susceptible to ambush because of their spin up time. I would certainly suggest making a way to attack HA other than smashing it repeatedly with an onos however. Lerks and skulks would certainly benefit from it, possibly add a weak point on the back or something for lerks to snipe, while melee attacks would automatially hit it if attacking from behind.
<!--quoteo(post=1811703:date=Nov 29 2010, 10:36 AM:name=xposed-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xposed- @ Nov 29 2010, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What the ###### hell are you on yourbonesakin?
I was contributing my opinion to a conversation, just like you were. You are everything that is wrong with internet discussions.
In short, try finding your self validation elsewhere instead of being a ###### on the internet. Get a life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1811703:date=Nov 29 2010, 06:36 AM:name=xposed-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xposed- @ Nov 29 2010, 06:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What the ###### hell are you on yourbonesakin?
I was contributing my opinion to a conversation, just like you were. You are everything that is wrong with internet discussions.
In short, try finding your self validation elsewhere instead of being a ###### on the internet. Get a life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I <i>am</i> sorry that you got offended. I thought you were being a stoic, mocking troll who needed to get a life... and that only by insulting could I deter undesired trolling posts. I was mistaken and I am truly sorry for being cruel when unnecessary.
You were contributing an objective opinion. Which can be wrong. If you were saying "Peanut butter is awesome" and I was all "No, you ###### ######, how can you even <i>think</i> peanut butter is awesome?!" I would indeed need to get a life. However, correcting false objective opinions is a good thing. It makes people smarter when they stop believing wrong things.
I think my argument that people want to keep playing games if they have opened games on their computer is a convincing one. If they don't, we don't need to design games for them since they don't actually want to play games.
I admit I like proving myself right on the internet. But you can blame my desire to publicly show dominance on evolution. Perhaps only being mean to trolls is okay? I don't know.
Perhaps a tweak to MT could fix most problems with it, rather than it being a live feed on exactly where the aliens are change it to only update every x seconds with the results fading out. This still provides some useful information so everyone can see things like incoming attacks or see when aliens take a hive (or leave a hive they've taken undefended), but it hopefully removes a lot of the concerns people have with MT. You could then even add some extra upgrades to the obs for MT to increase how often the scans occur, this would add in an extra res sink too.
<!--quoteo(post=1811686:date=Nov 29 2010, 10:50 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Nov 29 2010, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Balanced does not equal fun. If that were true, we'd just flip coins all day and try to guess which side lands up. We'd be ecstatically enthralled with flipping coins, have national, no GLOBAL coin flip guessing competitions. Because that's 50/50 even chances of winning, right? And balance equal fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really the best comparisson... You are tying to compare a game of chance/luck (flipping a coin) with a game that's supposed to be competive and skill dependant.
Balance is a given in any competive enviorment or do you see soccer games beeing played with 2 teams that play by completly different rule sets?
Making Motion Tracking a costly timebased ability with a lengthy cooldown would be a good change. It would give the commander more involvement, rather than a single use, passive upgrade.
<!--quoteo(post=1811717:date=Nov 29 2010, 07:54 AM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Nov 29 2010, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not really the best comparisson... You are tying to compare a game of chance/luck (flipping a coin) with a game that's supposed to be competive and skill dependant.
Balance is a given in any competive enviorment or do you see soccer games beeing played with 2 teams that play by completly different rule sets?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never said balance was unnecessary. I was pointing out that balance does not equal fun by itself. It is a requirement, but not the only requirement.
So I made up a really clear counter example. That's all.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2010
I played on several NS1 servers with a mod to remove parasite by humping an armory. I think that worked well, and should be in NS2. But just a medpack getting rid of parasite? No way, very bad idea.
Perhaps make a new marine structure: Medical facility. It must be constructed to drop med packs and cat packs. Ammo packs require an armory. Cat packs are researched on the medical facility. It has a terminal that can remove parasite and heals you up (like the armory currently does).
I think MT would be balanced if it just drained energy from the obs. That way, you'd need multiple obs to keep MT up at all times, as well as limiting how much scanning and beaconing you could do. That way, MT is a much riskier gambit, do you invest more res in obs, or do you leave MT off for periods of time making your marines vulnerable?
Coin flip analogy is awful. A balanced game influenced by luck and balanced game influenced by skill (and some luck) are completely different. People don't play coin flip (oh wait ya they do) that much because they have no control over the outcome. How about an 'imbalanced' coin? You think people want to play that more?? Even if there was some way for the player to influence the outcome I doubt they would want to play the disadvantaged side.
It's seems most agree that: - both MT and Parasite need nerfs. - The medpack is a nerf to parasite. - This nerf is too strong*
Regarding the * - I think it too early to tell - If a good com can keep parasites off and useless. Then can't a good skulk could really drain the economy for marines since it cost res to remove paras. -if it turns out that the nerf is still too strong for marines, then a small change to make medpacks remove para ONLY when marine is a full health when medpack is applied.
MT nerf discussion is kind off-topic here, but yeah I hope that at least I can move my mouse and not be detected. IIRC in NS1 being still and looking around would still make you visible. Which sucked! I find the idea of MT generally ok, though
<!--quoteo(post=1811790:date=Nov 29 2010, 03:51 PM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Nov 29 2010, 03:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Coin flip analogy is awful. A balanced game influenced by luck and balanced game influenced by skill (and some luck) are completely different. People don't play coin flip (oh wait ya they do) that much because they have no control over the outcome. How about an 'imbalanced' coin? You think people want to play that more?? Even if there was some way for the player to influence the outcome I doubt they would want to play the disadvantaged side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That wasn't what I was driving at. Here, this is what I meant:
<!--quoteo(post=1811732:date=Nov 29 2010, 08:49 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Nov 29 2010, 08:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never said balance was unnecessary. I was pointing out that balance does not equal fun by itself. It is a requirement, but not the only requirement.
So I made up a really clear counter example. That's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone said both sides getting motion tracking would cancel everything out. Yes it's balanced, but balance is not the only requirement of fun.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
seriously, was this a problem in NS1??
in ns1, motion tracking was a late game technology and as an alien i never had a particular problem with it.
the parasite was always cool because it added to that feeling to the aliens that they are connected trough a hivemind and can see everything, that they have "map controll" from the start and the that the marines are the intruders. Worked quite well i think. don't change it.
I think a trip to the armory to cure the parasite would be a lot more intuitive and balanced than dropping a medpack. Maybe it can even be an armory upgrade if you so wish (medical station).
Motion tracking should only work in a proximity of the observatory, IMO. Kind of like a detector in SC.
<!--quoteo(post=1811818:date=Nov 29 2010, 06:13 PM:name=Avalon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avalon @ Nov 29 2010, 06:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think a trip to the armory to cure the parasite would be a lot more intuitive and balanced than dropping a medpack. Maybe it can even be an armory upgrade if you so wish (medical station).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please this. It is the only solution in this whole thread that makes sense and still keeps parasites useful.
I was always a bit bothered that in NS1 there was absolutely no way to remove a parasite, but I am certainly against making it curable by simply dropping a medpack on the parasited marine.
I like all the question marks in the title, it makes me imagine the OP flipping out about medics removing parasite. He's very upset about it! On the other hand I think it sounds totally reasonable and that the OP should probably just "deal with it" like the kids say.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The real question is should marines even be aware that they are parasited? I think it dumbs down the game to have text that says you are parasited. I mean Aliens don't get feedback when they are being tracked by MT, so why should Marines? Smart players will see their health drop a bit and know they have been parasited, then must remember that. No need to tell them.
But I agree, that going to the armory should be required to remove a parasite, not just a medpack.
<!--quoteo(post=1811853:date=Nov 30 2010, 02:11 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Nov 30 2010, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The real question is should marines even be aware that they are parasited? I think it dumbs down the game to have text that says you are parasited. I mean Aliens don't get feedback when they are being tracked by MT, so why should Marines? Smart players will see their health drop a bit and know they have been parasited, then must remember that. No need to tell them.
But I agree, that going to the armory should be required to remove a parasite, not just a medpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aw hell naw, parasited marines should have a green "infested" UI overlay to represent whats supposed to be happening to them, and also some 3rd person graphical representation so team mates can tell whos got the parasite. "you have a parasite" text seems pretty lame and im sure its probably placeholder for an eventual graphic effect. also medpack curing parasite is perfect, thats commander gameplay right there, keeping your team non-parasited
lets think about this realistically, a "medpack" is technology that can cure massive bullet/bite wounds instantly - why would it <u>not </u>be able to remove a parasite?
<!--quoteo(post=1811853:date=Nov 30 2010, 01:11 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Nov 30 2010, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The real question is should marines even be aware that they are parasited? I think it dumbs down the game to have text that says you are parasited. I mean Aliens don't get feedback when they are being tracked by MT, so why should Marines? Smart players will see their health drop a bit and know they have been parasited, then must remember that. No need to tell them.
But I agree, that going to the armory should be required to remove a parasite, not just a medpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lack of alien feedback is one of the stupider parts of MT, two stupid mechanics does not make a good mechanic.
<!--quoteo(post=1811919:date=Nov 30 2010, 09:20 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 30 2010, 09:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811919"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The lack of alien feedback is one of the stupider parts of MT, two stupid mechanics does not make a good mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can easily see MT from the way marines act, no theres no need for such thing.
Both the NS1 implementations of Motion Tracking and Parasite were pretty bad in my opinion. They were purely positive enhancements with little or no nuance to their use.
A skulk can parasite quickly and easily and disappear around a corner way before any marine can respond, and the parasite, even a single marine in a group, could stop a marine offense.
You guys have to realize that the most useful thing in any strategy game isn't firepower, it's information. Knowing exactly where an enemy is, even 1 enemy, is incredibly powerful.
With the aliens knowing where a marine offense is, they can very easily coordinate against it, or attack targets elsewhere.
In some ways, parasite removes the need for an alien commander. It's also always active until that marine dies. Hit a structure with it and it will always be marked until destroyed. Any marine hit with parasite becomes a liability to the marine team, and all for the cost of a little bit of HP from rifle shots that hit you in the split second you're visible, a little energy from spitting a bunch of parasites,
Likewise, motion tracking was even more powerful because it put indicators right on screen as to exactly where in screen the enemy was, and about how far away, any decent marine could know exactly where the aliens were, at least until the NS team put in some ways to get around motion tracking. But even so it completely removed one of the alien team's biggest tactics: surprise attacks.
Comments
wow. lol'd.
Also, balance in an RTS is fun, yes. If it wasn't balanced, it would be unplayable. Comparing a complex game to flipping a coin? That's just silly.
Anyway, this is getting boring, I've made my point and you're of course entitled to yours :)
gl hf.
You bring up a good point, Corporal_Fortier. Yeah, SC2 does have in-game map hacking. Probably the most effective example is the Protoss observer, which is a permanently cloaked noclip unit which detects cloaked units. It does have downsides. Mostly that it has a very limited area of effect (which can be moved) and competes for production with extremely cost effective units (The Protoss Colossus is the Protoss' most cost effective ground-to-ground attacking unit <i>before its splash damage is considered</i>). It's pretty much a mobile observatory scan which lasts forever but can be killed (at a minor cost). But it still has limitations.
The sensor towers seem really good, but they are limited in use (radius of effect) and are vulnerable to attack. They are completely useful and viable otherwise. It's just that you have to make a few of them to get a really good area of effect, and if you can cover the entire map with them you've already won... so they've become a rare niche option because of their limitations. For an NS1 analogy, placing observatories often to get motion tracking instead of buying the upgrade. You'd rather tech up or place RT's or get guns for your soldiers. So there's some limitations, but the sensory tower can be a great option in certain situations (like holding off every attack on your base before a key upgrade/tech finishes and you move out to steamroll your foe).
I keep talking about limitations. It's important. I could definitely enjoy motion tracking in NS2, but only if it wasn't the perfect motion tracking of NS1.
Also, balance in an RTS is fun, yes. If it wasn't balanced, it would be unplayable. Comparing a complex game to flipping a coin? That's just silly.
Anyway, this is getting boring, I've made my point and you're of course entitled to yours :)
gl hf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said balance was unnecessary. I was simply pointing out balance is not the only consideration. Because coin flip guessing contests are balanced but not fun. See? Counter examples are great tools.
Your arguments have failed in their entirety and now you are putting words in my mouth. I'm disappointed.
Not only that, but you have left my every other argument alone and untouched. Odd coincidence. Perhaps you just forgot? Or maybe they were all right.
And then you "leave" the conversation. Hmm. It sounds to me like you lost a fight on the internet and got bothered instead of graciously admitting defeat.
I'm only dragging this out and insulting you because you had the gall to insult me when I was right. And kept saying I was wrong when you believed I was right just to soothe your ego.
Dude, we're all wrong some time. It happens. We're not perfect. It's not the end of the world. It's unfair to judge people based on how many times they are wrong. We instead judge them on how many times they correct themselves.
HMG is replaced by miniguns as far as I know which would be ideally susceptible to ambush because of their spin up time. I would certainly suggest making a way to attack HA other than smashing it repeatedly with an onos however. Lerks and skulks would certainly benefit from it, possibly add a weak point on the back or something for lerks to snipe, while melee attacks would automatially hit it if attacking from behind.
I was contributing my opinion to a conversation, just like you were. You are everything that is wrong with internet discussions.
In short, try finding your self validation elsewhere instead of being a ###### on the internet. Get a life.
I was contributing my opinion to a conversation, just like you were. You are everything that is wrong with internet discussions.
In short, try finding your self validation elsewhere instead of being a ###### on the internet. Get a life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironic post of the week?
I was contributing my opinion to a conversation, just like you were. You are everything that is wrong with internet discussions.
In short, try finding your self validation elsewhere instead of being a ###### on the internet. Get a life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I <i>am</i> sorry that you got offended. I thought you were being a stoic, mocking troll who needed to get a life... and that only by insulting could I deter undesired trolling posts. I was mistaken and I am truly sorry for being cruel when unnecessary.
You were contributing an objective opinion. Which can be wrong. If you were saying "Peanut butter is awesome" and I was all "No, you ###### ######, how can you even <i>think</i> peanut butter is awesome?!" I would indeed need to get a life. However, correcting false objective opinions is a good thing. It makes people smarter when they stop believing wrong things.
I think my argument that people want to keep playing games if they have opened games on their computer is a convincing one. If they don't, we don't need to design games for them since they don't actually want to play games.
I admit I like proving myself right on the internet. But you can blame my desire to publicly show dominance on evolution. Perhaps only being mean to trolls is okay? I don't know.
I need to cool off. Sorry xposed. I was too mean.
You could then even add some extra upgrades to the obs for MT to increase how often the scans occur, this would add in an extra res sink too.
Not really the best comparisson...
You are tying to compare a game of chance/luck (flipping a coin) with a game that's supposed to be competive and skill dependant.
Balance is a given in any competive enviorment or do you see soccer games beeing played with 2 teams that play by completly different rule sets?
You are tying to compare a game of chance/luck (flipping a coin) with a game that's supposed to be competive and skill dependant.
Balance is a given in any competive enviorment or do you see soccer games beeing played with 2 teams that play by completly different rule sets?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said balance was unnecessary. I was pointing out that balance does not equal fun by itself. It is a requirement, but not the only requirement.
So I made up a really clear counter example. That's all.
Perhaps make a new marine structure: Medical facility. It must be constructed to drop med packs and cat packs. Ammo packs require an armory. Cat packs are researched on the medical facility. It has a terminal that can remove parasite and heals you up (like the armory currently does).
- both MT and Parasite need nerfs.
- The medpack is a nerf to parasite.
- This nerf is too strong*
Regarding the *
- I think it too early to tell
- If a good com can keep parasites off and useless. Then can't a good skulk could really drain the economy for marines since it cost res to remove paras.
-if it turns out that the nerf is still too strong for marines, then a small change to make medpacks remove para ONLY when marine is a full health when medpack is applied.
MT nerf discussion is kind off-topic here, but yeah I hope that at least I can move my mouse and not be detected. IIRC in NS1 being still and looking around would still make you visible. Which sucked! I find the idea of MT generally ok, though
That wasn't what I was driving at. Here, this is what I meant:
<!--quoteo(post=1811732:date=Nov 29 2010, 08:49 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Nov 29 2010, 08:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never said balance was unnecessary. I was pointing out that balance does not equal fun by itself. It is a requirement, but not the only requirement.
So I made up a really clear counter example. That's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone said both sides getting motion tracking would cancel everything out. Yes it's balanced, but balance is not the only requirement of fun.
in ns1, motion tracking was a late game technology and as an alien i never had a particular problem with it.
the parasite was always cool because it added to that feeling to the aliens that they are connected trough a hivemind and can see everything, that they have "map controll" from the start and the that the marines are the intruders. Worked quite well i think. don't change it.
Motion tracking should only work in a proximity of the observatory, IMO. Kind of like a detector in SC.
Please this. It is the only solution in this whole thread that makes sense and still keeps parasites useful.
I was always a bit bothered that in NS1 there was absolutely no way to remove a parasite, but I am certainly against making it curable by simply dropping a medpack on the parasited marine.
But I agree, that going to the armory should be required to remove a parasite, not just a medpack.
But I agree, that going to the armory should be required to remove a parasite, not just a medpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aw hell naw, parasited marines should have a green "infested" UI overlay to represent whats supposed to be happening to them, and also some 3rd person graphical representation so team mates can tell whos got the parasite. "you have a parasite" text seems pretty lame and im sure its probably placeholder for an eventual graphic effect.
also medpack curing parasite is perfect, thats commander gameplay right there, keeping your team non-parasited
Everyone should be moving at all times instead of getting owned by "sure-kill-parasite".
But I agree, that going to the armory should be required to remove a parasite, not just a medpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lack of alien feedback is one of the stupider parts of MT, two stupid mechanics does not make a good mechanic.
You can easily see MT from the way marines act, no theres no need for such thing.
A skulk can parasite quickly and easily and disappear around a corner way before any marine can respond, and the parasite, even a single marine in a group, could stop a marine offense.
You guys have to realize that the most useful thing in any strategy game isn't firepower, it's information. Knowing exactly where an enemy is, even 1 enemy, is incredibly powerful.
With the aliens knowing where a marine offense is, they can very easily coordinate against it, or attack targets elsewhere.
In some ways, parasite removes the need for an alien commander. It's also always active until that marine dies. Hit a structure with it and it will always be marked until destroyed. Any marine hit with parasite becomes a liability to the marine team, and all for the cost of a little bit of HP from rifle shots that hit you in the split second you're visible, a little energy from spitting a bunch of parasites,
Likewise, motion tracking was even more powerful because it put indicators right on screen as to exactly where in screen the enemy was, and about how far away, any decent marine could know exactly where the aliens were, at least until the NS team put in some ways to get around motion tracking. But even so it completely removed one of the alien team's biggest tactics: surprise attacks.