<!--quoteo(post=1808379:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are gamers so bloody keen to pay and pay and pay ? DLC ? yeahyeahyeah! Maps ? yeahyeahyeah! Cosmetic items ? yeahyeahyeah! Expansions ? yeahyeahyeah! Pets ? yeahyeahyeah! Plushies ? yeahyeahyeah!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They probably want to support UWE in their attempts at taming this new engine in any way they can.
<!--quoteo(post=1808379:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and you wonder why theres the likes of Bobby Kotick and his ilk in the industry<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The likes of them will be where'ver there is a buck to be made. This is nothing new.
<!--quoteo(post=1808379:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look at new games these days, the list of special items for pre ordering is getting longer than the wine list in a french resturaunt. What happened to earning the items in the game itself ? NS 1 was made possible because at the time the market fad was to encourage fan participation and mods... how far would NS1 and its fellow mods have got in these days of DLC ridden post sales extra IP exploiting ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> New games these days have a rather costly advertising campains and a large staff working on the game while in development for a year or two. They also don't usually care much for community suggestions and have their own closed alpha/beta testers giving ideas/feedback and the like, UWE have shown to, perhaps showing support for this is a good thing?
I'm inclined to agree with the non-DLC route. It truly pains me to do this, but I'm going to point out Halo 3's armour customisation system here - basically, in addition to the god awful achievement system built-in to the 360, Halo awarded you to additional armour for completing certain tasks. Some menial, like completing the campaign, some less so (infamously the Recon armour, originally only awarded for being featured on the community or something).
I think this kind of system of "awarding" players would be much better than the money grabbing style DLC. I bought the game, that is me saying thank you for creating a great, fun game. I don't want to have them dangling carrots in my face saying, "Mmm, looks good doesn't it, do you want a bite? Well tough, you haven't kissed my ass enough yet!". This is what DLC symbolises to me. So yeah, a sort of "award" system would be better than DLC.
I also have to point out <b>ASnogarD</b> made some excellent points about gamers being too willing to throw money at developers/publishers. Like it earns them some sort of approval, just because you spent a lot of money on a product, doesn't mean you're better than any of the other players. It certainly doesn't mean the developers will personally thank you for funding their new luxury jacuzzi and invite you round for a nice cold beer. It just means you have a deeper pocket... or an emptier head.
<b>TL;DR</b> - I know a lot of people will skip over my post on account of the length, so, in summary: + Do not want DLC + Preferred system: awarding players with armour for completing certain tasks both trivial and difficult (see: Halo 3 armour customization) + Gamers who pay for poor quality/quantity DLC have deep pockets and/or empty heads
Well of course player rewarding and community is a good thing, but in the end they need to generate money. They don't have thousands upon thousands of dollars to spend on TV-commercials, viral marketing and all that. By introducing cosmetic DLC they can gain a bit of extra revenue from the playerbase they have that they probably could use if they want to keep going and could make a moderate success into a more profitable one over time. Because you know, the biggest profit a game will ever get is at launch most of the times, and due to the nature of this game being multiplayer and indie there's probably not going to be such a huge pool of gamers say a year from now. That they'll shower us with community content or activities I think is a given anyway, this is their only title so far and they have already said they'll keep on creating content for it after release.
And I prefer not to think of myself as stupid or having deep pockets, it's just like spending $1-5 when one feels like it to customize yourself and your player avatar(s) and of course supporting the developers. I love Killing Floor and I've bought every character DLC (12 additional characters in total in packs of 3) just because of that to support them, it cost me less than $9 over the course of a year. That's NOT exactly unaffordable and nor is it a bad deal for either the customer or the developer.
Just saying if they do their homework and maybe use Tripwire's Killing Floor as inspiration, it's a win/win situation.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
I would say the Black armor dlc (which is a dlc) is perfect. The game studio is very small, so having a new dlc, purely cosmetic, every now and then (every half a year, i don't know), would be nice. Keep in mind that they NEED money to make the game. If we want them to improve the game after it has been released, then they need money to do it.
So purely cosmetic dlcs are probably the way to go. With perhaps one expansion pack once, but i'm not sure about that.
<!--quoteo(post=1808466:date=Nov 22 2010, 10:27 AM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Nov 22 2010, 10:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808466"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would say the <b>Black armor dlc (which is a dlc)</b> is perfect. The game studio is very small, so having a new dlc, purely cosmetic, every now and then (every half a year, i don't know), would be nice. Keep in mind that they NEED money to make the game. If we want them to improve the game after it has been released, then they need money to do it.
So purely cosmetic dlcs are probably the way to go. With perhaps one expansion pack once, but i'm not sure about that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? the black armor isnt a DLC, its a privilegie that came with the Special Edition of the game. It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.
<!--quoteo(post=1808467:date=Nov 22 2010, 10:32 AM:name=Twiggeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twiggeh @ Nov 22 2010, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What? the black armor isnt a DLC, its a privilegie that came with the Special Edition of the game. It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the reason some say its a dlc is because you get an extra key for it we payed extra for it and it shows up in steam as an extra dlc
<!--quoteo(post=1808467:date=Nov 22 2010, 02:32 AM:name=Twiggeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twiggeh @ Nov 22 2010, 02:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What? the black armor isnt a DLC, its a privilegie that came with the Special Edition of the game. It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> from a technical standpoint (the way Steam sees it), it's a DLC. Those who got the SE received a separate code to put in Steam after the game key was registered which unlocked alpha access as well as black armor.
edit: argh, everyone seems to be beating me to the punch today...
<!--quoteo(post=1808476:date=Nov 22 2010, 10:48 AM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Nov 22 2010, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808476"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->from a technical standpoint (the way Steam sees it), it's a DLC. Those who got the SE received a separate code to put in Steam after the game key was registered which unlocked alpha access as well as black armor.
edit: argh, everyone seems to be beating me to the punch today...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:D sorry
if it makes you feel better iv crashed 5 times recently (not counting server crashes)
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1808467:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:32 AM:name=Twiggeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twiggeh @ Nov 22 2010, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What? the black armor isnt a DLC, its a privilegie that came with the Special Edition of the game. It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As some pointed out, the black armor is a limited time DLC. you can see in steam listed under DLC for NS2 by the way.
<!--quoteo(post=1808460:date=Nov 22 2010, 08:59 AM:name=Triggerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Triggerman @ Nov 22 2010, 08:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well of course player rewarding and community is a good thing, but in the end they need to generate money. They don't have thousands upon thousands of dollars to spend on TV-commercials, viral marketing and all that. By introducing cosmetic DLC they can gain a bit of extra revenue from the playerbase they have that they probably could use if they want to keep going and could make a moderate success into a more profitable one over time. Because you know, the biggest profit a game will ever get is at launch most of the times, and due to the nature of this game being multiplayer and indie there's probably not going to be such a huge pool of gamers say a year from now. That they'll shower us with community content or activities I think is a given anyway, this is their only title so far and they have already said they'll keep on creating content for it after release.
And I prefer not to think of myself as stupid or having deep pockets, it's just like spending $1-5 when one feels like it to customize yourself and your player avatar(s) and of course supporting the developers. I love Killing Floor and I've bought every character DLC (12 additional characters in total in packs of 3) just because of that to support them, it cost me less than $9 over the course of a year. That's NOT exactly unaffordable and nor is it a bad deal for either the customer or the developer.
Just saying if they do their homework and maybe use Tripwire's Killing Floor as inspiration, it's a win/win situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to use Minecraft as an example of an indie game that is generating huge revenue. Minecraft never ran any adverts (with the exception of announcing it on TigSource at the start) and in little over a year the project and made a net profit of $6mil (the actual gross profit is about 45% of that). Minecraft is still in alpha (the game is not feature complete (never will be, but the point is it's not got all the features Notch feels makes the game "complete")). This is a game selling at just $15 which is less than half that of NS2 and also has been available for purchase a lot less time. I will accept there are certain conditions surrounding Minecraft which allowed exponential growth of the game; primarily the ready-playable state the game was announced in, and the fast development times. But the excuse your making is flawed if Minecraft can make $6mil.
And no, you're right, if the DLC is reasonably priced, it's not <i>as </i>bad. But I still stand by my disapproval of DLC on a whole, simply because I bought the game, I want everything that comes with it - not pay to unlock some features that exist in the game already.
Just don't make it Hat Selection 2. <b>Seriously.</b>
I guess its only natural (hehe) that UWE will want to generate more revenue in the future with cosmetic DLC, but honestly is it worth it? The whole ridiculous customization that makes TF2 seem more like a MMO than a FPS really makes me disinterested in playing it ever again.
IMO it took a lot away from the feel and style of vanilla TF2 that was really great. I'd hate for cosmetic DLC in NS2 to ruin the really great atmosphere and style of NS2.
I'd much, much, rather see new paid game-modes, like co_ or something new instead of silly cosmetic features that dilute the game's feel.
<!--quoteo(post=1808488:date=Nov 22 2010, 06:23 AM:name=FuzionMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuzionMonkey @ Nov 22 2010, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808488"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...I'd much, much, rather see new paid game-modes, like co_ or something new instead of silly cosmetic features that dilute the game's feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ewww...as Zuriki stated, when I buy the game, I want all the features immediately accessible to me, this includes game modes. Paying for game modes not only would put a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths, but would also split the community quite decisively.
I don't mind purely cosmetic items, the only difference between that and community made skins are expense and dev support. I would gladly pay for such things because IMHO it's to support the development of the game. I'm not going to pay for DLC when support for a game is dead, or when it splits the community while providing some edge to the haves.
<!--quoteo(post=1808488:date=Nov 22 2010, 10:23 AM:name=FuzionMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuzionMonkey @ Nov 22 2010, 10:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808488"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just don't make it Hat Selection 2. <b>Seriously.</b>
I guess its only natural (hehe) that UWE will want to generate more revenue in the future with cosmetic DLC, but honestly is it worth it? The whole ridiculous customization that makes TF2 seem more like a MMO than a FPS really makes me disinterested in playing it ever again.
IMO it took a lot away from the feel and style of vanilla TF2 that was really great. I'd hate for cosmetic DLC in NS2 to ruin the really great atmosphere and style of NS2.
I'd much, much, rather see new paid game-modes, like co_ or something new instead of silly cosmetic features that dilute the game's feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Not paid game-modes, those 'dilute' the community, which is a really bad thing. Paid game-modes pretty much force you to buy them if you want to keep playing with everyone. Cosmetic DLC would be better than than game-modes, simply as it doesn't interfere with the gameplay/community.
I still want a small customisation screen inside Options like you used to get on HL DM... [bleh can't find a screen shot anywhere on the internet, might have to re-install half-life and take one myself].
Choosing helmet / armour style / random detail, from a set of predefined options (no colour pickers) and control of the style and direction stays completely with the dev's and those that want to personalise their character a little bit do (I mean, 4 options with 5 options each will mean you'll not get many duplicates).
Like being able to put a smiley on your helmet a la the fade reveal video!
<!--quoteo(post=1808487:date=Nov 22 2010, 01:19 AM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Nov 22 2010, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to use Minecraft as an example of an indie game that is generating huge revenue. Minecraft never ran any adverts (with the exception of announcing it on TigSource at the start) and in little over a year the project and made a net profit of $6mil (the actual gross profit is about 45% of that). Minecraft is still in alpha (the game is not feature complete (never will be, but the point is it's not got all the features Notch feels makes the game "complete")). This is a game selling at just $15 which is less than half that of NS2 and also has been available for purchase a lot less time. I will accept there are certain conditions surrounding Minecraft which allowed exponential growth of the game; primarily the ready-playable state the game was announced in, and the fast development times. But the excuse your making is flawed if Minecraft can make $6mil..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not completely disagreeing with you here, you can have great profits from the initial sale, but Minecraft is more of a <i>phenomenon </i>than a game when it comes to sales. It was right in every way for the time; it's low-tech and appeals to gamers of all ages (particularly the older ones due to nostalgia), it is completely randomized, it is charming and it's THE sandbox of all time. Also that it got such a huge boom from people recording sessions on YouTube and sites all across the web made it incredibly viral. I mean... UWE could achieve that, but I kind of doubt it since Minecraft that got such a <i>huge </i>spread with (correct me if I'm wrong) no money spent on marketing.
I just kind of wish people would stop comparing games with Minecraft... it's the success story of all times for one indie-person that is probably something like one-in-a-million that you could pull off. Also fast development times might have something to do with that the graphics are all cubes, NS2 required conceptart, outsourcing and each model taking more time and effort than a level in NS1. It's a <i>completely </i>different playing field, and now when Notch is now a millionaire he still probably only needs to hire one lawyer and then outsource both graphics and audio when needed. And by doing that outsourcing he's just being nice; the currents looks and sounds already in the game is perfectly fine as it is as the million-dollar profits clearly states.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And no, you're right, if the DLC is reasonably priced, it's not <i>as </i>bad. But I still stand by my disapproval of DLC on a whole, simply because I bought the game, I want everything that comes with it - not pay to unlock some features that exist in the game already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're mistaking this for the console-game hallaballoo that happened some time ago when it first came around. THAT I agree with you on, it's just slapping the customer on the face if a complete game-mode is already on the disc. But in NS2's case in particular (that's what we're discussing here, right?) they probably couldn't realistically pull that off for release, it would have to be patched in.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1808483:date=Nov 22 2010, 06:07 AM:name=deathshroud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deathshroud @ Nov 22 2010, 06:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->first dlc, please be the female marine :) oh and a new gorge skin<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A first thought; maybe a green or blue glow to his belly :)
Scout Lynx again on the Black Armor. Just throwing this out there, someone commented on striking a deal with anyone with extra copies of NS2 special edition to obtain a black armor key. I was curious if people have any extra Special Edition copies available? Thanks.
I still have an unregistered SE copy. Was planning to gift it to a friend when the game is reasonably playable (maybe for Christmas), but I suppose he wouldn't care about the black armor. Not sure what I'd want in exchange for it though. *runs from flood of PMs*
<!--quoteo(post=1808150:date=Nov 21 2010, 08:52 PM:name=FuzionMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuzionMonkey @ Nov 21 2010, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way TF2 has gone with the whole item market... its completely ridiculous. I would hate it if they did something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This, please. Give us premium leagues ran by UWE directly (community managers/volunteers could oversee it), constellation 2.0 or whatever, just don't bring out map-packs with 4 maps for 20$ and vanity items and crap like that. Please.
<!--quoteo(post=1808821:date=Nov 23 2010, 12:42 AM:name=FluffyM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FluffyM @ Nov 23 2010, 12:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This, please. Give us premium leagues ran by UWE directly (community managers/volunteers could oversee it), constellation 2.0 or whatever, just don't bring out map-packs with 4 maps for 20$ and vanity items and crap like that. Please.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Buy in tournaments?
<!--quoteo(post=1808823:date=Nov 23 2010, 01:45 AM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Nov 23 2010, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Buy in tournaments?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ye, something like that. They could start off free, then have a tiered system of buy-in leagues/tournaments with cash prizes and still make a profit while doing a great thing. If NA leagues for other games are any indication, people don't mind paying if the competition is run professionally. Idk, I just think there are many (good) ways of making money while driving the popularity of your game without going down the much treaded slippery slope of bad DLC, unlocks and cosmetic items.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The maps are so dark, you can't really tell what a marine is wearing anyway. I'm not convinced the overly dark maps of NS is really that good. NS1 was bright enough to still be able to see. I find myself running into walls constantly in NS2 as both marine and alien because it's so dark. Finding vents as alien is like playing Marco Polo.
<!--quoteo(post=1808841:date=Nov 23 2010, 01:05 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Nov 23 2010, 01:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The maps are so dark, you can't really tell what a marine is wearing anyway. I'm not convinced the overly dark maps of NS is really that good. NS1 was bright enough to still be able to see. I find myself running into walls constantly in NS2 as both marine and alien because it's so dark. Finding vents as alien is like playing Marco Polo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly, r_shadows 0 Secondly, you must be blind or have a really poor monitor setup. I can see perfectly on all the NS2 maps.
<!--quoteo(post=1808855:date=Nov 23 2010, 01:34 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 23 2010, 01:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Somebody said, the game is darker on ati cards? I got an nvidia => no problem.
Tweak your monitor settings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I use ATI 4890 and it looks fine.
Yeah, does anyone happen to have a NS2 SE copy extra that they are willing to sell? I was trying to get the black armor CD key. Send me messages if you are interested.
<!--quoteo(post=1811634:date=Nov 29 2010, 04:23 AM:name=ScoutLynx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScoutLynx @ Nov 29 2010, 04:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, does anyone happen to have a NS2 SE copy extra that they are willing to sell? I was trying to get the black armor CD key. Send me messages if you are interested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alot of people have asked already, none has recieved. There are even separate threads about it.
Comments
DLC ? yeahyeahyeah! Maps ? yeahyeahyeah! Cosmetic items ? yeahyeahyeah! Expansions ? yeahyeahyeah! Pets ? yeahyeahyeah! Plushies ? yeahyeahyeah!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They probably want to support UWE in their attempts at taming this new engine in any way they can.
<!--quoteo(post=1808379:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and you wonder why theres the likes of Bobby Kotick and his ilk in the industry<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The likes of them will be where'ver there is a buck to be made. This is nothing new.
<!--quoteo(post=1808379:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Nov 22 2010, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look at new games these days, the list of special items for pre ordering is getting longer than the wine list in a french resturaunt. What happened to earning the items in the game itself ? NS 1 was made possible because at the time the market fad was to encourage fan participation and mods... how far would NS1 and its fellow mods have got in these days of DLC ridden post sales extra IP exploiting ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
New games these days have a rather costly advertising campains and a large staff working on the game while in development for a year or two. They also don't usually care much for community suggestions and have their own closed alpha/beta testers giving ideas/feedback and the like, UWE have shown to, perhaps showing support for this is a good thing?
I think this kind of system of "awarding" players would be much better than the money grabbing style DLC. I bought the game, that is me saying thank you for creating a great, fun game. I don't want to have them dangling carrots in my face saying, "Mmm, looks good doesn't it, do you want a bite? Well tough, you haven't kissed my ass enough yet!". This is what DLC symbolises to me. So yeah, a sort of "award" system would be better than DLC.
I also have to point out <b>ASnogarD</b> made some excellent points about gamers being too willing to throw money at developers/publishers. Like it earns them some sort of approval, just because you spent a lot of money on a product, doesn't mean you're better than any of the other players. It certainly doesn't mean the developers will personally thank you for funding their new luxury jacuzzi and invite you round for a nice cold beer. It just means you have a deeper pocket... or an emptier head.
<b>TL;DR</b> - I know a lot of people will skip over my post on account of the length, so, in summary:
+ Do not want DLC
+ Preferred system: awarding players with armour for completing certain tasks both trivial and difficult (see: Halo 3 armour customization)
+ Gamers who pay for poor quality/quantity DLC have deep pockets and/or empty heads
Because you know, the biggest profit a game will ever get is at launch most of the times, and due to the nature of this game being multiplayer and indie there's probably not going to be such a huge pool of gamers say a year from now. That they'll shower us with community content or activities I think is a given anyway, this is their only title so far and they have already said they'll keep on creating content for it after release.
And I prefer not to think of myself as stupid or having deep pockets, it's just like spending $1-5 when one feels like it to customize yourself and your player avatar(s) and of course supporting the developers. I love Killing Floor and I've bought every character DLC (12 additional characters in total in packs of 3) just because of that to support them, it cost me less than $9 over the course of a year. That's NOT exactly unaffordable and nor is it a bad deal for either the customer or the developer.
Just saying if they do their homework and maybe use Tripwire's Killing Floor as inspiration, it's a win/win situation.
The game studio is very small, so having a new dlc, purely cosmetic, every now and then (every half a year, i don't know), would be nice.
Keep in mind that they NEED money to make the game. If we want them to improve the game after it has been released, then they need money to do it.
So purely cosmetic dlcs are probably the way to go. With perhaps one expansion pack once, but i'm not sure about that.
The game studio is very small, so having a new dlc, purely cosmetic, every now and then (every half a year, i don't know), would be nice.
Keep in mind that they NEED money to make the game. If we want them to improve the game after it has been released, then they need money to do it.
So purely cosmetic dlcs are probably the way to go. With perhaps one expansion pack once, but i'm not sure about that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? the black armor isnt a DLC, its a privilegie that came with the Special Edition of the game.
It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.
It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the reason some say its a dlc is because you get an extra key for it we payed extra for it and it shows up in steam as an extra dlc
It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
from a technical standpoint (the way Steam sees it), it's a DLC. Those who got the SE received a separate code to put in Steam after the game key was registered which unlocked alpha access as well as black armor.
edit: argh, everyone seems to be beating me to the punch today...
edit: argh, everyone seems to be beating me to the punch today...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:D sorry
if it makes you feel better iv crashed 5 times recently (not counting server crashes)
It wasnt available separately, it was part of the core package.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As some pointed out, the black armor is a limited time DLC. you can see in steam listed under DLC for NS2 by the way.
Because you know, the biggest profit a game will ever get is at launch most of the times, and due to the nature of this game being multiplayer and indie there's probably not going to be such a huge pool of gamers say a year from now. That they'll shower us with community content or activities I think is a given anyway, this is their only title so far and they have already said they'll keep on creating content for it after release.
And I prefer not to think of myself as stupid or having deep pockets, it's just like spending $1-5 when one feels like it to customize yourself and your player avatar(s) and of course supporting the developers. I love Killing Floor and I've bought every character DLC (12 additional characters in total in packs of 3) just because of that to support them, it cost me less than $9 over the course of a year. That's NOT exactly unaffordable and nor is it a bad deal for either the customer or the developer.
Just saying if they do their homework and maybe use Tripwire's Killing Floor as inspiration, it's a win/win situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm going to use Minecraft as an example of an indie game that is generating huge revenue. Minecraft never ran any adverts (with the exception of announcing it on TigSource at the start) and in little over a year the project and made a net profit of $6mil (the actual gross profit is about 45% of that). Minecraft is still in alpha (the game is not feature complete (never will be, but the point is it's not got all the features Notch feels makes the game "complete")). This is a game selling at just $15 which is less than half that of NS2 and also has been available for purchase a lot less time. I will accept there are certain conditions surrounding Minecraft which allowed exponential growth of the game; primarily the ready-playable state the game was announced in, and the fast development times. But the excuse your making is flawed if Minecraft can make $6mil.
And no, you're right, if the DLC is reasonably priced, it's not <i>as </i>bad. But I still stand by my disapproval of DLC on a whole, simply because I bought the game, I want everything that comes with it - not pay to unlock some features that exist in the game already.
I guess its only natural (hehe) that UWE will want to generate more revenue in the future with cosmetic DLC, but honestly is it worth it? The whole ridiculous customization that makes TF2 seem more like a MMO than a FPS really makes me disinterested in playing it ever again.
IMO it took a lot away from the feel and style of vanilla TF2 that was really great. I'd hate for cosmetic DLC in NS2 to ruin the really great atmosphere and style of NS2.
I'd much, much, rather see new paid game-modes, like co_ or something new instead of silly cosmetic features that dilute the game's feel.
Ewww...as Zuriki stated, when I buy the game, I want all the features immediately accessible to me, this includes game modes. Paying for game modes not only would put a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths, but would also split the community quite decisively.
I don't mind purely cosmetic items, the only difference between that and community made skins are expense and dev support. I would gladly pay for such things because IMHO it's to support the development of the game. I'm not going to pay for DLC when support for a game is dead, or when it splits the community while providing some edge to the haves.
I guess its only natural (hehe) that UWE will want to generate more revenue in the future with cosmetic DLC, but honestly is it worth it? The whole ridiculous customization that makes TF2 seem more like a MMO than a FPS really makes me disinterested in playing it ever again.
IMO it took a lot away from the feel and style of vanilla TF2 that was really great. I'd hate for cosmetic DLC in NS2 to ruin the really great atmosphere and style of NS2.
I'd much, much, rather see new paid game-modes, like co_ or something new instead of silly cosmetic features that dilute the game's feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Not paid game-modes, those 'dilute' the community, which is a really bad thing. Paid game-modes pretty much force you to buy them if you want to keep playing with everyone. Cosmetic DLC would be better than than game-modes, simply as it doesn't interfere with the gameplay/community.
E1: Ninja'd
Choosing helmet / armour style / random detail, from a set of predefined options (no colour pickers) and control of the style and direction stays completely with the dev's and those that want to personalise their character a little bit do (I mean, 4 options with 5 options each will mean you'll not get many duplicates).
Like being able to put a smiley on your helmet a la the fade reveal video!
I'm not completely disagreeing with you here, you can have great profits from the initial sale, but Minecraft is more of a <i>phenomenon </i>than a game when it comes to sales.
It was right in every way for the time; it's low-tech and appeals to gamers of all ages (particularly the older ones due to nostalgia), it is completely randomized, it is charming and it's THE sandbox of all time. Also that it got such a huge boom from people recording sessions on YouTube and sites all across the web made it incredibly viral. I mean... UWE could achieve that, but I kind of doubt it since Minecraft that got such a <i>huge </i>spread with (correct me if I'm wrong) no money spent on marketing.
I just kind of wish people would stop comparing games with Minecraft... it's the success story of all times for one indie-person that is probably something like one-in-a-million that you could pull off. Also fast development times might have something to do with that the graphics are all cubes, NS2 required conceptart, outsourcing and each model taking more time and effort than a level in NS1. It's a <i>completely </i>different playing field, and now when Notch is now a millionaire he still probably only needs to hire one lawyer and then outsource both graphics and audio when needed. And by doing that outsourcing he's just being nice; the currents looks and sounds already in the game is perfectly fine as it is as the million-dollar profits clearly states.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And no, you're right, if the DLC is reasonably priced, it's not <i>as </i>bad. But I still stand by my disapproval of DLC on a whole, simply because I bought the game, I want everything that comes with it - not pay to unlock some features that exist in the game already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're mistaking this for the console-game hallaballoo that happened some time ago when it first came around. THAT I agree with you on, it's just slapping the customer on the face if a complete game-mode is already on the disc. But in NS2's case in particular (that's what we're discussing here, right?) they probably couldn't realistically pull that off for release, it would have to be patched in.
A first thought; maybe a green or blue glow to his belly :)
This, please. Give us premium leagues ran by UWE directly (community managers/volunteers could oversee it), constellation 2.0 or whatever, just don't bring out map-packs with 4 maps for 20$ and vanity items and crap like that. Please.
Buy in tournaments?
Ye, something like that. They could start off free, then have a tiered system of buy-in leagues/tournaments with cash prizes and still make a profit while doing a great thing. If NA leagues for other games are any indication, people don't mind paying if the competition is run professionally.
Idk, I just think there are many (good) ways of making money while driving the popularity of your game without going down the much treaded slippery slope of bad DLC, unlocks and cosmetic items.
I'm not convinced the overly dark maps of NS is really that good. NS1 was bright enough to still be able to see. I find myself running into walls constantly in NS2 as both marine and alien because it's so dark. Finding vents as alien is like playing Marco Polo.
I'm not convinced the overly dark maps of NS is really that good. NS1 was bright enough to still be able to see. I find myself running into walls constantly in NS2 as both marine and alien because it's so dark. Finding vents as alien is like playing Marco Polo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly, r_shadows 0
Secondly, you must be blind or have a really poor monitor setup. I can see perfectly on all the NS2 maps.
I got an nvidia => no problem.
Tweak your monitor settings.
I got an nvidia => no problem.
Tweak your monitor settings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I use ATI 4890 and it looks fine.
Alot of people have asked already, none has recieved.
There are even separate threads about it.