<!--quoteo(post=1804302:date=Nov 3 2010, 08:42 AM:name=TheDestroyer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheDestroyer @ Nov 3 2010, 08:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804302"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've dumped money in Constie, purchased ZoS (even though I never play it), bought the SE of NS2, and would do so again/more if I could because I enjoy what they do and want to support it any little way I can.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woot I am with you. All because NS1 beat out many mainstream games for my time.
Zen of Sudoku was a pretty well put together Sudoku game. I hope they at least brought in some money from it.
I've always liked the unreal engine. It looks lightyears beyond source and runs 200x better. And alt tabbing from fullscreen to OS doesn't take 3 minutes like in source..
<!--quoteo(post=1804618:date=Nov 5 2010, 02:18 PM:name=Thraka2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thraka2 @ Nov 5 2010, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've always liked the unreal engine. It looks lightyears beyond source and runs 200x better. And alt tabbing from fullscreen to OS doesn't take 3 minutes like in source..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-windowed -noborder
Seriously, Source engine can alt tab instantly with those parameters. I'm surprised so many people DON'T know them :(
Seriously, Source engine can alt tab instantly with those parameters. I'm surprised so many people DON'T know them :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Was suggested by yours truly on get-satisfaction. They liked the suggestion (noborder windows rule1), let's hope it doesn't get lost
<!--quoteo(post=1803616:date=Oct 28 2010, 11:29 PM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Oct 28 2010, 11:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now, NS2 hasn't better graphics than HL2 IMHO and runs infinitely worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh no, NS2 engine in its current iteration is far superior graphically to source, aside from a few bad effects like the flamethrower. Try reading the various bulletin boards in game, you'll notice you can and that theyre well to to current generation standards. Now try to read something in source, yeah you can't.
Another good reason for a whole new engine is shown off in NS2HD[35], power nodes wouldn't be possible in Source or UT3. After experiencing these lighting effects in gameplay I can't imagine NS2 in a static-lit engine.
<!--quoteo(post=1804033:date=Nov 1 2010, 06:45 AM:name=Denton22)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denton22 @ Nov 1 2010, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well i hate the Source engine, when i played L4D and "L4D2"(i going sick when i hear that name), the Hitboxes and netcode is the worst i ever seen, and that s why i say ###### on the Source Engine, it is worse then Halflife 1 and Valve don't care about that. I also like Spark Engine, and the thinks i seen were nice, if i would have 20fps more i could test the hitdetection and co. But for a alpha its fine. (Ok a Server costs 800MB Ram and the shadow Disappear when you move away is dumb but i hope that is getting fixed)
Good luck UWE<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The source netcode is the worst you have ever seen??? clearly you haven't played any of the battlefield games. BC2 is something like the 7th game in the series and while demolishing buildings is fun, the actual netcode is so made of fail, it would be funny if it wasn't so aggravating. That coupled with the fact they blatantly just drew the weapons stats out of a tombola while smashed out of their faces one night would explain why the best weapon to snipe with happens to be a shotgun with shell upgrades.
<!--quoteo(post=1803636:date=Oct 28 2010, 09:20 PM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Oct 28 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803636"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In addition to everything that has been stated, Spark is THEIR engine... it doesn't belong to another company. It is being developed by and for UWE. Once all the kinks are out of it they will be able to use the engine for all of their titles as well as be able to license their own engine to other companies, independent or otherwise. I don't know how Source licensing works, but its safe to say that if they have to pay Valve for every game they make on the Source engine, the flow of cash won't be very high. Spark ensures (once it is actually operational) that cash will flow directly to the company (and its investors) and UWE won't have to deal with any middle-men.
If they did choose to go with the Source engine, even before they started Spark, then much of their time right now even, would be spent trying to implement their ideas into the Source engine codebase. This would require learning almost every facet of the engine itself which takes time, and certain bugs in the engine may not be able to be fixed by UWE themselves.
Spark is a good thing. Growing pains are to be expected, and once the engine is complete, further development of NS2 will go faster and their next title, whatever that may be, will also benefit from this "growing up" stage in the development life cycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically this. They own their own product. Completely. That alone is enough. It's nice to see an independent game company truly become an independent game company, instead of just another "modder." Even if NS2 was a complete failure(not that it ever would be, oh no no), I still would have no issue having handed over my pre-order money. I've enjoyed countless hours with the original. If a fraction of my paycheck means those people that brought me the fun I had(and still have) get to try it on their own, then my money has gone to good use.
Well, by using their own engine, NS2 will be a much more impressive showcase for Unknown Worlds, so that's a good reason for an indie developer to break into the industry. NS2 is pretttttty.
<!--quoteo(post=1804660:date=Nov 5 2010, 08:46 PM:name=Rebel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rebel @ Nov 5 2010, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The source netcode is the worst you have ever seen??? clearly you haven't played any of the battlefield games. BC2 is something like the 7th game in the series and while demolishing buildings is fun, the actual netcode is so made of fail, it would be funny if it wasn't so aggravating. That coupled with the fact they blatantly just drew the weapons stats out of a tombola while smashed out of their faces one night would explain why the best weapon to snipe with happens to be a shotgun with shell upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
idk what game youre playing but most of the time the netcode in bc2 is great. the only gripe i have with the game is the goddamn autoaim knife. oh and sometimes youll shoot someone, see blood and wont get the hit indicator (has been happening more since the recent patch). but thats not netcode, that is more to do with the idiots that cant use the filters. there is no excuse to have a server full of 180 pingers and im the only low pinger (or one of). you can even filter servers by region.. ffs
I've worked with Source for multiple years, I have to deal with it on a daily basis at work. It is <u>horrible</u> to work with. Spark is miles above and beyond it right now; sure it would be nice if there were more tools and features with Spark but the core that we have right now is an absolute dream to work with and if Max keeps adding the bells and whistles it's rapidly gonna become my engine of choice (as an artist that is).
<!--quoteo(post=1804808:date=Nov 7 2010, 10:10 AM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Nov 7 2010, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've worked with Source for multiple years, I have to deal with it on a daily basis at work. It is <u>horrible</u> to work with. Spark is miles above and beyond it right now; sure it would be nice if there were more tools and features with Spark but the core that we have right now is an absolute dream to work with and if Max keeps adding the bells and whistles it's rapidly gonna become my engine of choice (as an artist that is).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> F'n <u>this</u>
<!--quoteo(post=1804756:date=Nov 7 2010, 12:15 AM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Nov 7 2010, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the idiots that cant use the filters. there is no excuse to have a server full of 180 pingers and im the only low pinger (or one of). you can even filter servers by region.. ffs<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would argue that up to 300 ping is ok ping. I usually play on servers I prefer because of their content/community, which actually gives me 300+ ping, and I have no trouble with that (altough thats gmod and not a competetive fps).
In NS2 I try to join servers with 250 ping or less, altough more would not really matter that much, it could be the difference between a lag spike ending with me dead (the other person got 300 ms to aim and shoot at me while I stand still), or that I can jump away just in time.
With the current framerate issues of build 153 that does not really matter anyway, as you could at anytime "freeze" for a second while flying around in a base full of sentrys :P.
My point is that a server full of 180 pingers isnt that horrific, as I never experienced any problems on servers where most had 300+ ping.
<!--quoteo(post=1804756:date=Nov 6 2010, 06:15 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Nov 6 2010, 06:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->idk what game youre playing but most of the time the netcode in bc2 is great. the only gripe i have with the game is the goddamn autoaim knife. oh and sometimes youll shoot someone, see blood and wont get the hit indicator (has been happening more since the recent patch). but thats not netcode, that is more to do with the idiots that cant use the filters. there is no excuse to have a server full of 180 pingers and im the only low pinger (or one of). you can even filter servers by region.. ffs<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erm......... No, good netcode compensates for different players running with different latencies and different framerates, poor bullet reg is actually a very good sign that your netcode is broke on a fundamental level. And on another point, source gives UK users an ave latency of 20ms to UK servers (or 5 on a LAN) while on any battlefield you are lucky to get less then 80 (or 40 on a lan) that's just how the netcode works for those games, but that still does't excuse that for every 5 bullets you fire on target 3 of them never actually register, that's just either bad coding for hit detection or poor netcode. Sorry but to say Carmack wrote lag compensation and efficient processing of combat events that ran on 28.8K modems some 14 years ago the netcode in BC2 is a joke. They all have been, the closest one to actually work working was 2142 after about 5 patches, just as long as you didn't move the titans as then it would like like a b*tch then crash and burn.....
<!--quoteo(post=1804809:date=Nov 7 2010, 03:12 PM:name=BAshh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BAshh @ Nov 7 2010, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804809"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Source is like working with a toddler.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A toddler which repeatedly punches you in the face and insults your mother.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2010
only issue I have with source is the fact that it has FPS stutter for a lot of people. I've even seen it on way more powerful rigs then mine. FPS stutter is a very odd occurrence, making the game stutter at a interval of 1 to 2 seconds. It is a small jitter in fps for a short instance (lasts about 200ms I think). But it does keep happening and also has no relation to the kind of graphics settings used...
A small map (my greenscreen map), which uses one texture (green :P). It even happens... TF2 seems more prone to this problem somehow then other source games...
Other then that I do like the engine, but it is not the easily mod-able engine they promised. It's kinda klunky :P
<!--quoteo(post=1804816:date=Nov 7 2010, 11:49 AM:name=Rebel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rebel @ Nov 7 2010, 11:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Erm......... No, good netcode compensates for different players running with different latencies and different framerates, poor bullet reg is actually a very good sign that your netcode is broke on a fundamental level. And on another point, source gives UK users an ave latency of 20ms to UK servers (or 5 on a LAN) while on any battlefield you are lucky to get less then 80 (or 40 on a lan) that's just how the netcode works for those games, but that still does't excuse that for every 5 bullets you fire on target 3 of them never actually register, that's just either bad coding for hit detection or poor netcode. Sorry but to say Carmack wrote lag compensation and efficient processing of combat events that ran on 28.8K modems some 14 years ago the netcode in BC2 is a joke. They all have been, the closest one to actually work working was 2142 after about 5 patches, just as long as you didn't move the titans as then it would like like a b*tch then crash and burn.....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think 2142 was trash. It was absolutely the WORST of any of the bf games. BF2 was great by comparison. And your opinion on source differs from mine. Imo source isnt fit for MP games. Case in point, you cant do a realistic type game in source very well. Every mod/game is very cartoonish to hide the fact that the game has incredibly bad netcode.
<!--quoteo(post=1804810:date=Nov 7 2010, 09:41 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Nov 7 2010, 09:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would argue that up to 300 ping is ok ping. I usually play on servers I prefer because of their content/community, which actually gives me 300+ ping, and I have no trouble with that (altough thats gmod and not a competetive fps).
In NS2 I try to join servers with 250 ping or less, altough more would not really matter that much, it could be the difference between a lag spike ending with me dead (the other person got 300 ms to aim and shoot at me while I stand still), or that I can jump away just in time.
With the current framerate issues of build 153 that does not really matter anyway, as you could at anytime "freeze" for a second while flying around in a base full of sentrys :P.
My point is that a server full of 180 pingers isnt that horrific, as I never experienced any problems on servers where most had 300+ ping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its pretty bad when youre not able to reg on a lagger but can get hit around corners. and its still not as bad as hl1/2
<!--quoteo(post=1804820:date=Nov 7 2010, 02:26 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Nov 7 2010, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804820"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A toddler which repeatedly punches you in the face and insults your mother.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds pretty redundant, are there more than one type of toddlers?
<!--quoteo(post=1804816:date=Nov 7 2010, 12:49 PM:name=Rebel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rebel @ Nov 7 2010, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry but to say Carmack wrote lag compensation and efficient processing of combat events that ran on 28.8K modems some 14 years ago the netcode in BC2 is a joke.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but you're saying a machine designed from the ground up to perform two argument math calculations and send them over the internet to a small screen is superior to a machine designed from the ground up to perform variable argument math calculations that draws a graph, calculates different formulas to arrive at the same answer and then sending the data over the internet.
Gaming was a different place back then. You needed to send a great deal less data and probably less frequently as well. To compare the netcode from an older game that ran very well to a newer game that might not run as well just isn't a fair comparison.
That being said, I agree for the most part. IMHO the game industry is lacking actual engineers[1] that work with the underlying technology and understand what they are doing. I'm not engineer, but I would love to toy with stuff like this, but nothing I would produce would come close to what an engineer heavily trained in that area could accomplish. And besides, I don't think netcode is a "MY NET CODE WORKS FOR EVERYTHING" sort of deal. The game requirements have to be assessed and the best option needs to be implemented at an engine level. I don't think many game developers are doing this.
[1] Or the engineers who are trying to do things the proper way are being shot down by management, which, could quite possibly be the case.
<!--quoteo(post=1804966:date=Nov 9 2010, 03:49 AM:name=BAshh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BAshh @ Nov 9 2010, 03:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds pretty redundant, are there more than one type of toddlers?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1805001:date=Nov 9 2010, 03:35 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Nov 9 2010, 03:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1805001"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[1] Or the engineers who are trying to do things the proper way are being shot down by management, which, could quite possibly be the case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The real problem is the gaming industry is so secretive and moving so fast that there aren't established "right" ways for a lot of things. I mean, civil engineers all know tolerances and such 'cause we've been building using moreorless the same stuff forever. Adding in detailed physics and letting your netcode from 5 years ago handle it? Not a chance. Use same engine as Deus Ex and add in detailed dynamic lighting and bump maps? Right.
We are continuously pushing the envelope on technology and what it can provide. So, we add features. Unfortunately, not all the features are as well ironed out or don't always play nice with others. Plus there's a zillion ways to implement the same concept, each with different underlying behaviors in terms of performance.
So really, I know lots of very smart CS/Engineer people who are working on these issues. And they are working hard for you.
<!--quoteo(post=1805001:date=Nov 9 2010, 01:35 PM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Nov 9 2010, 01:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1805001"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry, but you're saying a machine designed from the ground up to perform two argument math calculations and send them over the internet to a small screen is superior to a machine designed from the ground up to perform variable argument math calculations that draws a graph, calculates different formulas to arrive at the same answer and then sending the data over the internet.
Gaming was a different place back then. You needed to send a great deal less data and probably less frequently as well. To compare the netcode from an older game that ran very well to a newer game that might not run as well just isn't a fair comparison.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's still the same thing, really.
Back then you had players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc.) and effects/events (explosions, etc.) going on. Now look at any modern FPS, what does it contain? Players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc) and effects/events going on
You want to model an airstrike like MW2? You place an plane entity in the sky, move it over the map. Then you spawn bomb entities as is flies over.. when they hit ground, they fire just like a grenade. Damage-events, particle-events, sound-events, etc. is sent to the player.
It's the same.
And Carmack wrote some pretty damn nice code back then, which he continued to improve upon until Quake2/3, where he commented something like he finally "got it". Either way, Carmacks netcode has been the inspiration of a lot of other engines code, and still is to this day. Valve's netcode is from Quake2, plus some tweaks and improvements - like backwards reconciliation. Obviously they've changed it more and more over the years, and while they may have lost a bit of the good snappy feel from HL1/Quake, I still think Valve's netcode is some of the best out there today.
<!--quoteo(post=1805032:date=Nov 10 2010, 07:24 AM:name=maesse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maesse @ Nov 10 2010, 07:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1805032"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's still the same thing, really.
Back then you had players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc.) and effects/events (explosions, etc.) going on. Now look at any modern FPS, what does it contain? Players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc) and effects/events going on
You want to model an airstrike like MW2? You place an plane entity in the sky, move it over the map. Then you spawn bomb entities as is flies over.. when they hit ground, they fire just like a grenade. Damage-events, particle-events, sound-events, etc. is sent to the player.
It's the same.
And Carmack wrote some pretty damn nice code back then, which he continued to improve upon until Quake2/3, where he commented something like he finally "got it". Either way, Carmacks netcode has been the inspiration of a lot of other engines code, and still is to this day. Valve's netcode is from Quake2, plus some tweaks and improvements - like backwards reconciliation. Obviously they've changed it more and more over the years, and while they may have lost a bit of the good snappy feel from HL1/Quake, I still think Valve's netcode is some of the best out there today.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah but now days we have physics which makes it a totally different ball game.
<!--quoteo(post=1805073:date=Nov 10 2010, 02:41 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Nov 10 2010, 02:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1805073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah but now days we have physics which makes it a totally different ball game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What kind of physics are you talking about? And or why does Quake/Source solve it in a bad/outdated way?
I'm glad I signed up for this alpha, and I'm also infinitely glad you went down the path of creating your own engine instead of "sticking with the source engine".
Comments
Woot I am with you.
All because NS1 beat out many mainstream games for my time.
Zen of Sudoku was a pretty well put together Sudoku game.
I hope they at least brought in some money from it.
-windowed -noborder
Seriously, Source engine can alt tab instantly with those parameters. I'm surprised so many people DON'T know them :(
Seriously, Source engine can alt tab instantly with those parameters. I'm surprised so many people DON'T know them :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was suggested by yours truly on get-satisfaction. They liked the suggestion (noborder windows rule1), let's hope it doesn't get lost
Uh no, NS2 engine in its current iteration is far superior graphically to source, aside from a few bad effects like the flamethrower.
Try reading the various bulletin boards in game, you'll notice you can and that theyre well to to current generation standards. Now try to read something in source, yeah you can't.
Good luck UWE<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The source netcode is the worst you have ever seen??? clearly you haven't played any of the battlefield games.
BC2 is something like the 7th game in the series and while demolishing buildings is fun, the actual netcode is so made of fail, it would be funny if it wasn't so aggravating.
That coupled with the fact they blatantly just drew the weapons stats out of a tombola while smashed out of their faces one night would explain why the best weapon to snipe with happens to be a shotgun with shell upgrades.
If they did choose to go with the Source engine, even before they started Spark, then much of their time right now even, would be spent trying to implement their ideas into the Source engine codebase. This would require learning almost every facet of the engine itself which takes time, and certain bugs in the engine may not be able to be fixed by UWE themselves.
Spark is a good thing. Growing pains are to be expected, and once the engine is complete, further development of NS2 will go faster and their next title, whatever that may be, will also benefit from this "growing up" stage in the development life cycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically this. They own their own product. Completely. That alone is enough. It's nice to see an independent game company truly become an independent game company, instead of just another "modder." Even if NS2 was a complete failure(not that it ever would be, oh no no), I still would have no issue having handed over my pre-order money. I've enjoyed countless hours with the original. If a fraction of my paycheck means those people that brought me the fun I had(and still have) get to try it on their own, then my money has gone to good use.
BC2 is something like the 7th game in the series and while demolishing buildings is fun, the actual netcode is so made of fail, it would be funny if it wasn't so aggravating.
That coupled with the fact they blatantly just drew the weapons stats out of a tombola while smashed out of their faces one night would explain why the best weapon to snipe with happens to be a shotgun with shell upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
idk what game youre playing but most of the time the netcode in bc2 is great. the only gripe i have with the game is the goddamn autoaim knife. oh and sometimes youll shoot someone, see blood and wont get the hit indicator (has been happening more since the recent patch). but thats not netcode, that is more to do with the idiots that cant use the filters. there is no excuse to have a server full of 180 pingers and im the only low pinger (or one of). you can even filter servers by region.. ffs
F'n <u>this</u>
Source is like working with a toddler.
I would argue that up to 300 ping is ok ping. I usually play on servers I prefer because of their content/community, which actually gives me 300+ ping, and I have no trouble with that (altough thats gmod and not a competetive fps).
In NS2 I try to join servers with 250 ping or less, altough more would not really matter that much, it could be the difference between a lag spike ending with me dead (the other person got 300 ms to aim and shoot at me while I stand still), or that I can jump away just in time.
With the current framerate issues of build 153 that does not really matter anyway, as you could at anytime "freeze" for a second while flying around in a base full of sentrys :P.
My point is that a server full of 180 pingers isnt that horrific, as I never experienced any problems on servers where most had 300+ ping.
Erm.........
No, good netcode compensates for different players running with different latencies and different framerates, poor bullet reg is actually a very good sign that your netcode is broke on a fundamental level.
And on another point, source gives UK users an ave latency of 20ms to UK servers (or 5 on a LAN) while on any battlefield you are lucky to get less then 80 (or 40 on a lan) that's just how the netcode works for those games, but that still does't excuse that for every 5 bullets you fire on target 3 of them never actually register, that's just either bad coding for hit detection or poor netcode.
Sorry but to say Carmack wrote lag compensation and efficient processing of combat events that ran on 28.8K modems some 14 years ago the netcode in BC2 is a joke. They all have been, the closest one to actually work working was 2142 after about 5 patches, just as long as you didn't move the titans as then it would like like a b*tch then crash and burn.....
A toddler which repeatedly punches you in the face and insults your mother.
A small map (my greenscreen map), which uses one texture (green :P). It even happens... TF2 seems more prone to this problem somehow then other source games...
Other then that I do like the engine, but it is not the easily mod-able engine they promised. It's kinda klunky :P
No, good netcode compensates for different players running with different latencies and different framerates, poor bullet reg is actually a very good sign that your netcode is broke on a fundamental level.
And on another point, source gives UK users an ave latency of 20ms to UK servers (or 5 on a LAN) while on any battlefield you are lucky to get less then 80 (or 40 on a lan) that's just how the netcode works for those games, but that still does't excuse that for every 5 bullets you fire on target 3 of them never actually register, that's just either bad coding for hit detection or poor netcode.
Sorry but to say Carmack wrote lag compensation and efficient processing of combat events that ran on 28.8K modems some 14 years ago the netcode in BC2 is a joke. They all have been, the closest one to actually work working was 2142 after about 5 patches, just as long as you didn't move the titans as then it would like like a b*tch then crash and burn.....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think 2142 was trash. It was absolutely the WORST of any of the bf games. BF2 was great by comparison. And your opinion on source differs from mine. Imo source isnt fit for MP games. Case in point, you cant do a realistic type game in source very well. Every mod/game is very cartoonish to hide the fact that the game has incredibly bad netcode.
In NS2 I try to join servers with 250 ping or less, altough more would not really matter that much, it could be the difference between a lag spike ending with me dead (the other person got 300 ms to aim and shoot at me while I stand still), or that I can jump away just in time.
With the current framerate issues of build 153 that does not really matter anyway, as you could at anytime "freeze" for a second while flying around in a base full of sentrys :P.
My point is that a server full of 180 pingers isnt that horrific, as I never experienced any problems on servers where most had 300+ ping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its pretty bad when youre not able to reg on a lagger but can get hit around corners. and its still not as bad as hl1/2
Sounds pretty redundant, are there more than one type of toddlers?
Sorry, but you're saying a machine designed from the ground up to perform two argument math calculations and send them over the internet to a small screen is superior to a machine designed from the ground up to perform variable argument math calculations that draws a graph, calculates different formulas to arrive at the same answer and then sending the data over the internet.
Gaming was a different place back then. You needed to send a great deal less data and probably less frequently as well. To compare the netcode from an older game that ran very well to a newer game that might not run as well just isn't a fair comparison.
That being said, I agree for the most part. IMHO the game industry is lacking actual engineers[1] that work with the underlying technology and understand what they are doing. I'm not engineer, but I would love to toy with stuff like this, but nothing I would produce would come close to what an engineer heavily trained in that area could accomplish. And besides, I don't think netcode is a "MY NET CODE WORKS FOR EVERYTHING" sort of deal. The game requirements have to be assessed and the best option needs to be implemented at an engine level. I don't think many game developers are doing this.
[1] Or the engineers who are trying to do things the proper way are being shot down by management, which, could quite possibly be the case.
Touche sir, touche.
The real problem is the gaming industry is so secretive and moving so fast that there aren't established "right" ways for a lot of things. I mean, civil engineers all know tolerances and such 'cause we've been building using moreorless the same stuff forever. Adding in detailed physics and letting your netcode from 5 years ago handle it? Not a chance. Use same engine as Deus Ex and add in detailed dynamic lighting and bump maps? Right.
We are continuously pushing the envelope on technology and what it can provide. So, we add features. Unfortunately, not all the features are as well ironed out or don't always play nice with others. Plus there's a zillion ways to implement the same concept, each with different underlying behaviors in terms of performance.
So really, I know lots of very smart CS/Engineer people who are working on these issues. And they are working hard for you.
Gaming was a different place back then. You needed to send a great deal less data and probably less frequently as well. To compare the netcode from an older game that ran very well to a newer game that might not run as well just isn't a fair comparison.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still the same thing, really.
Back then you had players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc.) and effects/events (explosions, etc.) going on.
Now look at any modern FPS, what does it contain?
Players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc) and effects/events going on
You want to model an airstrike like MW2? You place an plane entity in the sky, move it over the map.
Then you spawn bomb entities as is flies over.. when they hit ground, they fire just like a grenade. Damage-events, particle-events, sound-events, etc. is sent to the player.
It's the same.
And Carmack wrote some pretty damn nice code back then, which he continued to improve upon until Quake2/3, where he commented something like he finally "got it". Either way, Carmacks netcode has been the inspiration of a lot of other engines code, and still is to this day.
Valve's netcode is from Quake2, plus some tweaks and improvements - like backwards reconciliation. Obviously they've changed it more and more over the years, and while they may have lost a bit of the good snappy feel from HL1/Quake, I still think Valve's netcode is some of the best out there today.
Back then you had players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc.) and effects/events (explosions, etc.) going on.
Now look at any modern FPS, what does it contain?
Players moving around, different entities (health, weapons, etc) and effects/events going on
You want to model an airstrike like MW2? You place an plane entity in the sky, move it over the map.
Then you spawn bomb entities as is flies over.. when they hit ground, they fire just like a grenade. Damage-events, particle-events, sound-events, etc. is sent to the player.
It's the same.
And Carmack wrote some pretty damn nice code back then, which he continued to improve upon until Quake2/3, where he commented something like he finally "got it". Either way, Carmacks netcode has been the inspiration of a lot of other engines code, and still is to this day.
Valve's netcode is from Quake2, plus some tweaks and improvements - like backwards reconciliation. Obviously they've changed it more and more over the years, and while they may have lost a bit of the good snappy feel from HL1/Quake, I still think Valve's netcode is some of the best out there today.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah but now days we have physics which makes it a totally different ball game.
What kind of physics are you talking about? And or why does Quake/Source solve it in a bad/outdated way?