Pistol
FocusedWolf
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
This is the moment where a poll would really be useful. To bad the forums doesn't support this feature.
So from just viewing random posts, i see that for every 1 person that likes the NS2 pistol as-is, there is approximately 3 people that do not wholeheartedly appreciate it.
My theory is people are just ignoring the lmg because at the very least it appears to be an assault rifle inside some movie-prop shell... i.e. it's "ok", and shoots decently enough [or maybe it's because the LMG is the first weapon that gets discarded in favor or more powerful weaponry, and there will not be a replacements for the pistol... which you WILL be using more often then the LMG].
People will also be more critical about the higher up weapons like shotgun, hmg, flamethrower, gl, welder, maybe the mine, definitely the hand grenade etc. Lets not forget the jetpack and heavy, so expect this discussion to happen every time we see a new gun, or piece of equipment, that doesn't give off vibes of awesomeness.
I suggest, for the sake of improving the pistol, that we stick to the negatives... i.e. what don't you like about the pistol and why. This information could be used by someone to make a community endorsed replacement. The devs have a hard enough time trying to slap together all the features, so we cannot expect them to get it right 100% of the time, and this is pre-alpha so i guess saying what you don't like about the revealed NS2 content could be used to improve it before the beta.
And it's probably wishful thinking to assume that this is just a "pre-alpha" place-holder pistol, and a better looking / functioning "beta" pistol will be created lol.
-----------------------------------
Things i don't like about the pistol:
1. The sharp fragile blade front post ironsight which steals my attention every time i see a picture or video of the weapon in use. As i've said before modern pistols have smoothed thick sights to prevent the gun from getting snagged on clothing, etc. This seems like a very uninformed retro design to say the least.
2. The luger style feature in front of the rear sight. Is it a bump for no purpose, or does this pistol load like a luger?
3. The tiny rear sight. They forgot how to make tritium, and pistol, sights in the future?
4. If NS2 is so far in the future that iron sights, and aiming, are obsolete then why does this pistol have iron sights? Can they be used? Will NS2 have iron sights? I'd like that, but don't tease us by putting iron sights on every gun and not letting us use them.
5. This is something i've picked up from reading other peoples posts. They say that the grip of this pistol is to tiny and that it gives the appearance of being unbalanced. (This makes me think of the NS1 hand grenades).
6. Why is the gun, including the lmg, so awkwardly positioned so it's tilting to the left, but positioned on the right of the screen? It gives the appearance that your standing behind someone who is crouched in front of you and aiming high up and to the left. I want my guns a little lower then dead center of the screen pointing forward, where it will serve as a point of reference to help me aim. Yes i want to disable the goofy distracting NS1 arcade crosshair.
-----------------------------------
Got these from the "Engine test starting" thread:
<!--quoteo(post=1757031:date=Mar 4 2010, 12:39 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Mar 4 2010, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually like the NS2 pistol. The screenshot with the Lerks makes it look fat and ugly due to the angle, but I think when we see it in action it's going to be awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757040:date=Mar 4 2010, 01:08 PM:name=daidalos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daidalos @ Mar 4 2010, 01:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The pistol grip looks to be a little bit too small compared to the rest of the gun. It makes it look somehow unnatural and clumsy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757049:date=Mar 4 2010, 01:50 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Mar 4 2010, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've seen it in action in the Marine trailer, I gotta say, it doesn't look awesomesauce, though it's very far from ugly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757052:date=Mar 4 2010, 02:20 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Mar 4 2010, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757052"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, I forgot about that. I think daidalos is right about why it looks a little off. But I agree with you Cereal, it's far from ugly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757079:date=Mar 4 2010, 03:49 PM:name=Rehnquist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rehnquist @ Mar 4 2010, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, the grip is a little thin but I don't really think I will care when I'm playing the game. If it's really recoil (which I suspect it is, and a mod/dev confirmed in the twitter thread) making the pistol be at that angle, it should be lined up with the crosshair fine in game. As long as they fix the crosshair/model angle issue they were having with the rifle as well, I think it'll be ok. I wonder how much work it would be to make the pistol grip wider...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757229:date=Mar 5 2010, 01:58 AM:name=Jappify)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jappify @ Mar 5 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the look of the pistol, it looks like it packs a punch ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757547:date=Mar 5 2010, 11:16 PM:name=echs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (echs @ Mar 5 2010, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yuck, really dislike the reload animation on that pistol, the model looks great though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So from just viewing random posts, i see that for every 1 person that likes the NS2 pistol as-is, there is approximately 3 people that do not wholeheartedly appreciate it.
My theory is people are just ignoring the lmg because at the very least it appears to be an assault rifle inside some movie-prop shell... i.e. it's "ok", and shoots decently enough [or maybe it's because the LMG is the first weapon that gets discarded in favor or more powerful weaponry, and there will not be a replacements for the pistol... which you WILL be using more often then the LMG].
People will also be more critical about the higher up weapons like shotgun, hmg, flamethrower, gl, welder, maybe the mine, definitely the hand grenade etc. Lets not forget the jetpack and heavy, so expect this discussion to happen every time we see a new gun, or piece of equipment, that doesn't give off vibes of awesomeness.
I suggest, for the sake of improving the pistol, that we stick to the negatives... i.e. what don't you like about the pistol and why. This information could be used by someone to make a community endorsed replacement. The devs have a hard enough time trying to slap together all the features, so we cannot expect them to get it right 100% of the time, and this is pre-alpha so i guess saying what you don't like about the revealed NS2 content could be used to improve it before the beta.
And it's probably wishful thinking to assume that this is just a "pre-alpha" place-holder pistol, and a better looking / functioning "beta" pistol will be created lol.
-----------------------------------
Things i don't like about the pistol:
1. The sharp fragile blade front post ironsight which steals my attention every time i see a picture or video of the weapon in use. As i've said before modern pistols have smoothed thick sights to prevent the gun from getting snagged on clothing, etc. This seems like a very uninformed retro design to say the least.
2. The luger style feature in front of the rear sight. Is it a bump for no purpose, or does this pistol load like a luger?
3. The tiny rear sight. They forgot how to make tritium, and pistol, sights in the future?
4. If NS2 is so far in the future that iron sights, and aiming, are obsolete then why does this pistol have iron sights? Can they be used? Will NS2 have iron sights? I'd like that, but don't tease us by putting iron sights on every gun and not letting us use them.
5. This is something i've picked up from reading other peoples posts. They say that the grip of this pistol is to tiny and that it gives the appearance of being unbalanced. (This makes me think of the NS1 hand grenades).
6. Why is the gun, including the lmg, so awkwardly positioned so it's tilting to the left, but positioned on the right of the screen? It gives the appearance that your standing behind someone who is crouched in front of you and aiming high up and to the left. I want my guns a little lower then dead center of the screen pointing forward, where it will serve as a point of reference to help me aim. Yes i want to disable the goofy distracting NS1 arcade crosshair.
-----------------------------------
Got these from the "Engine test starting" thread:
<!--quoteo(post=1757031:date=Mar 4 2010, 12:39 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Mar 4 2010, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually like the NS2 pistol. The screenshot with the Lerks makes it look fat and ugly due to the angle, but I think when we see it in action it's going to be awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757040:date=Mar 4 2010, 01:08 PM:name=daidalos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daidalos @ Mar 4 2010, 01:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The pistol grip looks to be a little bit too small compared to the rest of the gun. It makes it look somehow unnatural and clumsy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757049:date=Mar 4 2010, 01:50 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Mar 4 2010, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've seen it in action in the Marine trailer, I gotta say, it doesn't look awesomesauce, though it's very far from ugly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757052:date=Mar 4 2010, 02:20 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Mar 4 2010, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757052"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, I forgot about that. I think daidalos is right about why it looks a little off. But I agree with you Cereal, it's far from ugly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757079:date=Mar 4 2010, 03:49 PM:name=Rehnquist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rehnquist @ Mar 4 2010, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, the grip is a little thin but I don't really think I will care when I'm playing the game. If it's really recoil (which I suspect it is, and a mod/dev confirmed in the twitter thread) making the pistol be at that angle, it should be lined up with the crosshair fine in game. As long as they fix the crosshair/model angle issue they were having with the rifle as well, I think it'll be ok. I wonder how much work it would be to make the pistol grip wider...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757229:date=Mar 5 2010, 01:58 AM:name=Jappify)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jappify @ Mar 5 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the look of the pistol, it looks like it packs a punch ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1757547:date=Mar 5 2010, 11:16 PM:name=echs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (echs @ Mar 5 2010, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yuck, really dislike the reload animation on that pistol, the model looks great though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show,
I should really just relax."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You cannot afford to design a game solely from realism stand-point. Often you may have to alter things in favour of gameplay, graphics, or the good old "cool" factor.
For everything else, I'm sure developers will take note of anything of value in your post. I personally love the pistol as it is right now.
<img src="https://www.lipseys.com/eImages/DE_24k%20Gold.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Dual-Wielding is also mandatory.
That said, I don't really object too much to it, I just think it's odd and I'll get used to it even if I don't love it.
<img src="http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4958/ns2pistol.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My pistol nirvana is the Halo CE pistol.
[attachment=35924:halo_1_s...t_pistol.jpg]
Might not be the preference of others though. I do get the feeling that like it or not this is going to be the pistol: it hasn't changed at all in the latest screenshots and videos.
same boat +1, aesthetics only of course. It looks like the doom3 gun, much too top-heavy and bulk looking compared to all other 'foldout tech' design of marines. And a luger-style cocking mechanism for a sci-fi?
I get it - someone accidentally deleted the model file and tried to cover by importing models from Doom and DoD:S, right?
As for ironsights and accuracy, we're all aware of OPs agenda and it will not be pushed here.
Ironsights are for aesthetic 'back-up' only. You try so hard to be a gun-nut, but let a better faux-gun-nut relay to you a story: when I or any others I play with mount an RDS or other tactical sight we do so to <b>use it</b>, not to awkwardly try and look between the sight and rails while going "hai guyz i'm aimin' with mah ion sites!".
2) You want your gun where? and you want to do what with a core gameplay mechanic?... just, no.
<img src="http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4958/ns2pistol.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah i thought i spotted a luger feature.
<img src="http://world.guns.ru/handguns/luger_p08_cocking.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Noooooooooooooooo!!! It's like the LMG from NS1
<img src="http://www.fmft.net/Sub%20Machine%20Gun%20Sterling%20Sub%20Machine%20Gun%209mm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Why o why do we keeping on making these world war 2 references?!!! >.<
######... the marine hmg will be a BAR... AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What's next, double barrel shotguns, and a winchester?
Godwin's Law
you lose
'Pistol is fine'-guys win
end of story
For whether it is an accurate representation of what a space marine's pistol would look like in 500 years, I really don't care. He can have an ironsight he doesn't need and a Luger cocking mechanism all he wants.
Wait, what?
German Weaponry from the WW2 era = Nazis?
German Weaponry from the WW2 era = Nazis?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I take back the Nazis reference (and removed it from original post). It's basically a WW2 reference (which is apparently a NS theme) and nothing more.
The Luger was produced in 1900, 39 years before WW2.
You're the only person making a WW2 reference.
You're the only person making a WW2 reference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS1 lmg is a obvious WW2 reference to the british made sten and sterling submachine guns, and it is this way that i associate the NS2 pistol (which is obviously associated with the Luger), with WW2. The only way i can be wrong is if there are other pistols, besides the Luger, which possess the same toggle-lock action.
I always thought the NS1 LMG was based on a stormtrooper blaster.
<img src="http://www.iconusa4.com/online/Images/starwars/Master_replicas/StormtrooperBlasterRifle_0.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Futuristic design, magazine on the side, scope.
Funnily enough, Han Solo's pistol is made from a luger.
<img src="http://www.bothanstation.com/images/han_dl44.JPG" border="0" class="linked-image" />
If anything these guns seem to be Star Wars references, which is a lot more fitting for NS than WW2, although... looking at that blaster, looks like it's made from a Sten, so indirectly you've got your WW2 reference.
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/files/ns2/030510/Pistol_FinalRender.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
'nuff said.
<img src="http://content.screencast.com/users/mattemuse/folders/Jing/media/835f07a2-8b50-45b4-8e25-6350a4a382ce/2010-03-05_1902.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
+1 for the devs effort, and i'm sorry if i rubbed anyone the wrong way with this thread.
Although point #6, in my O.P. i still believe in. I think it's just the orientation of the gun in the first person view that i'm not too thrilled about.
Zex i like your suggestion regarding the rib design. I also wonder if the pistol would look to much like a beretta's cut away slide/barrel style if the ribs were removed completely, although that probably wouldn't look good from the first person perspective.
Though I somehow need to get used to the new chambers.... they are odd :X
Dual pistols :D~
...
Funnily enough, Han Solo's pistol is made from a luger.
If anything these guns seem to be Star Wars references, which is a lot more fitting for NS than WW2, although... looking at that blaster, looks like it's made from a Sten, so indirectly you've got your WW2 reference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Waiting for the lightbulb to go on....
Stormtrooper -> Sturmtruppen, shock trooper, luger-style weapons, stormtrooper helmets -> Stahlhelms
ah screw it, most people made that connection when they were fifteen; if you haven't by now you'll need that extra push:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sources_and_analogues" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sources_and_analogues</a>