Skulks Viewcam Should Rotate With Map Geometry.
Jimyd
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
<div class="IPBDescription">(Like The Alien From AvP Games.)</div>I guess you could make it a toggleable option for those people who can not be skilled enough at it would work as well.
It is something that has to be put in.
As in regards to the new AvP game, you don't need (nor do I want to see) a "Transition Button" for NS2.
It makes the game more immersive, and it would make playing as a Skulk a lot easier when it comes to general movement and ambushing.
TL;DR
(Really?)
(Toggleable option if you must... sigh.)
It is something that has to be put in.
As in regards to the new AvP game, you don't need (nor do I want to see) a "Transition Button" for NS2.
It makes the game more immersive, and it would make playing as a Skulk a lot easier when it comes to general movement and ambushing.
TL;DR
(Really?)
(Toggleable option if you must... sigh.)
Comments
I'm sure it could easily be added through LUA. But if it's an option in the final game, it should be off by default.
If you care only about realism then ok.
I think it should be good if only implemented very properly. (unlike AvP)
its also unnecessary
Do you mean when the ceiling is uneven you have trouble moving around on it?
Because if you are, then i agree with you and I say that something should be done to make skulks stick to the ceiling better.
maybe they'll add it in 2, but i doubt it even if it'd be wonderfull.
I typically didn't have this problem. If you're climbing on the ceiling and looking parallel to it, IMO, you're doing it wrong. If you look at an angle to the ground as you move and press up/down/left/right (this depends on where an edge is relative to your view angle and where you want to move) then you usually grab on to the edge nicely. I usually only moved forward when a marine was directly in front of me. Otherwise, I strafe walk.
Regarding the OP, didn't they attempt that at some point? I don't know why, but I remember playing as a skulk and when I hit a wall, my view would snap parallel to the surface I hit and I remember being extremely annoyed by this. I don't think its necesarilly realistic either. If I were an alien climbing on walls, my eyes wouldn't be parallel to the wall I'm climbing on 100% of the time and they certainly wouldn't snap to each new angle, they would likely smoothly transition if anything, but I would still definitely have full control over where they were looking.
I'm not exactly sure how it would make things better. You're running, about to bite a marine when "OH GOD!" your player model hits the wrong part of the corner and your viewport goes flying up and your dead because a marine reacted and shot you in the face. Ambushing also would suffer IMO. With that said, I don't know how the new AvP implements it, but the old AvP annoyed me.
I don't think it ever made it's way to NS >1,0
@spawn - that's just you and a select few. Rest-assured the majority of players would find the constant view changing a hindrance.
How many of you have played using Airplanes in a game (BF2 for example), and for the most part fly mostly upside down. If that is difficult for you, then there is a correlation.
Myself I have no problem doing loop to loops and flying inverted under bridges and stuff.
For those of you who get dizzy and stuff, its because there is not many games that utilize it, or you haven't played with a game that has Airplanes before. You just have to get used to it by playing and becoming good at it.
I'm sure it is not too hard to include this as an OPTION. And besides it would be better to have it as an official option, than trying to find a certain few servers that are modded.
A side note, I play with inverted mouse... maybe that has something to do with it as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1751603:date=Feb 7 2010, 03:34 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 7 2010, 03:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I typically didn't have this problem. If you're climbing on the ceiling and looking parallel to it, IMO, you're doing it wrong. If you look at an angle to the ground as you move and press up/down/left/right (this depends on where an edge is relative to your view angle and where you want to move) then you usually grab on to the edge nicely. I usually only moved forward when a marine was directly in front of me. Otherwise, I strafe walk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Theoretically if you were side stepping you should be moving slower, but looking parallel to the wall lets you see what is coming up ahead easier.
However the reason you are looking at an odd angle to move forward, is because in NS1 the viewmodel does not rotate. This is the one thing AvP games have for the Aliens, their movement is very fluid on any surface you travel on with no hinderance to travelling speed.
I hate to say this, because its going to entice flames and bashing, but it is a skill thing.
See what I'm talking about at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpD6pkA83k8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpD6pkA83k8</a> around 0:45
I do agree that it's kind of neat, and you're free to go ahead and mod it in, but keep in mind that copying other games isn't necessarily a good idea.
The argument about rotating camera has been done at least once, with 'no' being the consensus. Stairs, accidentally bumping into walls, crawling through vents, and finding ways to keep the skulk in-the-know about which way is up just prove to be too troublesome for a feature that the majority might not even want.
How many of you have played using Airplanes in a game (BF2 for example), and for the most part fly mostly upside down. If that is difficult for you, then there is a correlation.
Myself I have no problem doing loop to loops and flying inverted under bridges and stuff.
For those of you who get dizzy and stuff, its because there is not many games that utilize it, or you haven't played with a game that has Airplanes before. You just have to get used to it by playing and becoming good at it.
I'm sure it is not too hard to include this as an OPTION. And besides it would be better to have it as an official option, than trying to find a certain few servers that are modded.
I hate to say this, because its going to entice flames and bashing, but it is a skill thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is skill based and that's exactly why it's not going to be included. This, coming from a player who has flown both a chopper and inverted jet through Kubra Dam's lower tunnel while dog fighting. Yes, it's exhilarating and challenging, but that's why your theory fails: as a BF2 player surely you realize that air vehicle HUDs are toggleable; now how many serious players do you think play with them on when given the option? None. Because as fun as it is to be in a cockpit, when it comes to gameplay it merely obscures part of your view.
And that's the same logic for wallwalk viewchange. By saying it's skill based you've just admitted that it will have an affect on gameplay, while trying to argue it should be optional. The two are mutually exclusive: cosmetic elements are optional - gameplay elements should NOT be.
Also, in AvP3, I like how aliens can 'stick' around a corner. In NS1, when you come upon a 90 degree corner, you will fall off if you continue to go forward. It would be nice if there was an option to stick around the corner. Maybe this could be the default, and you would just press CTRL or jump to get off walls/corners like you do in NS1
And that's the same logic for wallwalk viewchange. By saying it's skill based you've just admitted that it will have an affect on gameplay, while trying to argue it should be optional. The two are mutually exclusive: cosmetic elements are optional - gameplay elements should NOT be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically what I said, if you don't use it, you are limiting yourself.
An NS1 example would be if someone always holds +forward when flying as a Lerk. There is times where it is easier/better to let go and do quick vertical dodge while still looking downward.
It is also kind of the new "bunnyhop", but it actually makes sense to put in.
Running on staircases shouldn't mess up the vision, that is probably a limitation of "older" games or improperly coded view changes.
Simple example:
_
/ \
| |
\ _ /
If you are on the ceiling (first row) then you flip completely upside down. If you are on the walls (second and third row), your view turns 90 degrees. If you are on the floor (rows four and five), your view stays the same.
You basically only have to code for 4 view changes (2 differen't wall views), and just put a check for when the game model turns by a certain degree amount.
This probably could be done very easily, which is good enough. Something more fluid like in the AvP games would require more time. I do not expect this to be in the Alpha of course, and not maybe not even in the game release.
But maybe when they release the Female Marine model, they can release this as well with it. Marines get something, Aliens get something.
Couldn't agree more.
Just the additional work is already too much that is needed to make this work and and least a little easier to pick up for newer players.
Here we have UWE trying to make NS2 easier to learn for new players and then they slam a disorienting viewmode in their face.
I think Max already put a no under the last discussion about this topic, so anyone can feel free to plan a mod with this.
Just the additional work is already too much that is needed to make this work and and least a little easier to pick up for newer players.
Here we have UWE trying to make NS2 easier to learn for new players and then they <b>slam a disorienting viewmode in their face</b>.
I think Max already put a no under the last discussion about this topic, so anyone can feel free to plan a mod with this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if its not enabled when they join and if its toggle able, I don't see the problem here?
Personally I would like it just because I did enjoy the way avp did it and I found it easier to stick to walls this way (in avp I spent more time travelling on the walls and ceiling than i did on the floor, and in much the same way i spend more time in vents and walls in ns)
I agree it is a skill thing as you do need to adapt to the changes it enforces. While most likely it wont be added, it would be nice to have for those of us who like to have a more realistic effect and a bit more of a challenge.
(eta: before you slam me on the realistic bit, please tell me what can sit on the ceiling from its head, and how the poor skulk manages to twist its head into a broken neck position each time its body pins itself to the wall but not its mouth/head)
<a href="http://images.google.de/images?q=octopus" target="_blank">http://images.google.de/images?q=octopus</a>
and how the poor skulk manages to twist its head into a broken neck position
<a href="http://images.google.de/images?q=owl" target="_blank">http://images.google.de/images?q=owl</a>
An NS1 example would be if someone always holds +forward when flying as a Lerk. There is times where it is easier/better to let go and do quick vertical dodge while still looking downward.
But maybe when they release the Female Marine model, they can release this as well with it. Marines get something, Aliens get something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought you were implying an Options-screen toggle, but an in-game toggle key <i>could</i> work (or even a sticky key). Though I still see this as wasted effort and wasted keyboard space since there are a very limited amount of situations where having your view change is beneficial.
Also, I hope they never release that female model - I shudder for the underboob armour.
that is a serious question, and I can only guess because of the "cool look" or "I can't navigate on the ceiling without falling off."
the first point is BS. simple.
the second point: in NS you weren't really Climbing or attached to the wall, it was strange, and I have no Idea how the devs did it. but, it wasn't really wallwalking, as the entire surface was basically covered in a meter of water you could swim and 'climb' on.. if that makes any sense. In avp2, you were actually walking on walls, you could press W in a shaft and you would run in circles forever, while in NS you just dump into the wall. that was because of the technology behind it.
NS2 doesn't have such handicaps, they can code whatever they like, and so I believe that you can run into small edges or ceiling lights, and just 'Run over them' automatically, as you are actually fused to the ceiling, and don't have to manouver around it.
so when that is fixed, why complicate matters? why make the learning curve even higher? why make navigating in maps even harder? why give Marines a small advantage because the Skulks are sight impaired? why add rotating view?
I remember reading that the devs somehow used to codes for ladders to enable skulks to walk on walls.
actually, right now as you read this post, your brain is rotating the image your eyes get by 180°. something your brain learned to do when you were quite young (babies see everything topside down), and you could even stop doing this in a matter of days, when you would wear <a href="http://www.instructables.com/image/FEVPI4PFABDYRG0/Upside-down-glasses.jpg" target="_blank">these</a>
So, why do <b><i>I</i></b> would favor a rotating view? Because my first wallwalk experience was with Aliens vs Predator and it makes perfect sense to me.
Ok, so I am sometimes a bit nauseous because of movement sickness, but I don't care. It's a price I happily pay to increasy my immersion.
It where happy times when I ducked deep into my chair, neck low and stuff and a fat grin on my face when I made my brother scream in shock in the next room as I clawed his marine's face off.
<a href="http://images.google.de/images?q=octopus" target="_blank">http://images.google.de/images?q=octopus</a>
and how the poor skulk manages to twist its head into a broken neck position
<a href="http://images.google.de/images?q=owl" target="_blank">http://images.google.de/images?q=owl</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok the octopus does not attach itself via its head, its tentacles attach to the wall, and the initial head is actually its body, the brain being centered between the eyes but the heart and kidney sit at the end behind the eyes and ink sac in the bulb. initially its attaching at the mouth, but again its arms are holding it on the wall, not its head.
Owls have fourteen vertebrae bones in their necks which is twice as many as humans. This gives their neck greater flexibility so they can turn it around to 270 degrees. They have to do this because, unlike us, they cannot move their eyeballs at all in any direction.A skulks neck muscle is too thick around the shoulders to make this possible. the thickness you see in owls is just their feathers, they have the same width as chickens necks under those feathers that enables manoeuvrability.