<!--quoteo(post=1750573:date=Feb 3 2010, 11:37 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 3 2010, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't it more like the manufacturer sets the price and people decide whether they pay for it? I can't see people paying 5$ for cars being basis for any stable economical structure.
Or am I missing something completely obvious here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a perfectly free market every potential consumer sets the price he is willing to pay.
Every manufacturer sets the price he is willing to sell at.
If 90% of the potential consumers are willing to pay less than 20$, but the manufacturer wants 21$, than your product can only cover 10% of the market. This usually leads to prices declining at some point. Hence the consumer sets the price in a free market.
Of course this example holds only true for goods like video games, where you can sell every person only 1 object.
<!--quoteo(post=1750532:date=Feb 3 2010, 08:06 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 3 2010, 08:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is there an assumption that any sales are lost at all? The presumes that there is a guaranteed number of sales.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it presumes some people will choose to pirate instead of paying for the game, which is hardly a stretch of imagination. The point is that there's no way to separate these players from those who buy the game after pirating, those who wouldn't have bought it anyway, and so on.
Also ######. Myself, I recently inadvertently bought a pirated version of MW2 (it's what happens, no way to get legit stuff over here) and then figured to get legit one through some distant on-line store (yay multiplayer)... The pirated version was more stable, had no cut content, and didn't block language switching. And they wonder...
<!--quoteo(post=1750591:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And that justifies not releasing demos because...? I'm not saying you're trying to justify it but if that's what game publishers are thinking when they don't release demos then it's pretty clear to see how that's a contributing factor to piracy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's correct. However, getting a demo out for any system is a pretty big investment of time and money, so...
<!--quoteo(post=1750591:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Money lost on consoles is just far harder to track. Walk into a gamestop / eb games / babbages. See how 80% of the store is covered in used games? That's equivalent to piracy on the PC but is far harder to trace compared to looking at how many times a torrent has been downloaded. More traditional forms of piracy still exist on consoles as we recently saw <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/12/cnet.xbox.live.ban/index.html" target="_blank">1 million xbox users</a> get banned for modifying their consoles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's what I'm talking about. 1 million users is nothing compared to swarms of hundred million you get on PC. And, of course, used games market works for PC too...
<!--quoteo(post=1750628:date=Feb 4 2010, 05:30 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 4 2010, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone else got massive disagreement with most magazine reviews nowadays?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Reviews for any medium are never going to be fully objective. In big media, however, you get the domino effect where a publisher may not offer your magazine/site any more material it needs to live if you don't publish favourable reviews...
<!--quoteo(post=1750551:date=Feb 3 2010, 01:26 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Feb 3 2010, 01:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spore lost at least one sale due to piracy - mine. I didn't actually intend to pirate the game (I try to be all righteous like that), but when I heard that it had been leaked before release... I couldn't resist. I really wanted that game BADLY. However, the game turned out to be a huge disappointment and I soon threw it out. If I hadn't pirated it, I would have bought it. And it's not like you can just get a refund.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I go see a crappy movie at the theater I get a refund. If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund. If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund. If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund. If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.
Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.
I can't even read magazine/game site reviews anymore. When I agree with 10% of them that involve the games I play the lack of reliability of matching my viewpoint makes them worthless.
<!--quoteo(post=1750696:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:19 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I go see a crappy movie at the theater I get a refund. If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund. If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund. If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund. If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow. You're lucky, it's against the law to ask for refund on most of those things here...
As a sidenote, I personally deeply enjoyed Grenade of Grenade: Grenade Grenade 2. Albeit the Multigrenade mode is kinda unbalanced.
<!--quoteo(post=1750696:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:19 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's unjust, but the difference is, developers can get away with this injustice on consoles no problem... And, really, as any company concerned with profit, law and public satisfaction can always be ignored if it gets in the way of sale figures.
Maybe it would lead to better sales... Ideally. The problem with that assumption is the the same as it is with assuming competition means better quality products. On one hand, you can release better quality products and assume the educated consumer picks it... Or you can make sure customer isn't aware of the tricks you're pulling behind his back and make some extra dough by selling them crap.
<!--quoteo(post=1750696:date=Feb 4 2010, 07:19 AM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 07:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I go see a crappy movie at the theater I get a refund. If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund. If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund. If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund. If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.
Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason for this (and I am not sure I agree with it, but this is the reason), is that you could go home, make an ISO and return it. This could take all of 5 minutes and you now have a full copy of the game to enjoy at any time. You can't walk into a movie theater, sit down for 5 minutes and then leave with the ability to experience the movie theater version at any time you want for free. It basically boils down to the whole finite resources versus digital ones.
This is why many games sell a collectors edition. It offers finite resources (books, character models, etc) offering people a reason to buy it instead of pirating it.
<!--quoteo(post=1750706:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:35 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Feb 4 2010, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can it be illegal to ASK for a refund? What kind of weird country do you live in?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you dont greet the hat on a pole, you get the stick'tan
<!--quoteo(post=1750699:date=Feb 4 2010, 07:48 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 4 2010, 07:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow. You're lucky, it's against the law to ask for refund on most of those things here...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm in the US, almost every service and product offers the option for a refund if not satisfied. There are a few exceptions (sales that specify something being sold 'as is' or at a discount that has a no return policy attached). The logic is that the few people who are not satisfied get a refund and then don't badmouth the company to everyone else.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (comprox)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason for this (and I am not sure I agree with it, but this is the reason), is that you could go home, make an ISO and return it. This could take all of 5 minutes and you now have a full copy of the game to enjoy at any time. You can't walk into a movie theater, sit down for 5 minutes and then leave with the ability to experience the movie theater version at any time you want for free. It basically boils down to the whole finite resources versus digital ones.
This is why many games sell a collectors edition. It offers finite resources (books, character models, etc) offering people a reason to buy it instead of pirating it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with that reason also, as it punishes all customers for the possible actions of a few. It's easier to simply acquire a cracked copy from the internet than it is to make your own ISO anyway. Plus, when combined with online registration it kills the secondary market, which is part of what fuels the primary market.
If most games were priced appropriately (no, not every new game is worth 50 bucks just because it is new) and they could be resold then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. If I bought Battlefield 2 for 50 bucks, found it sucked, and could sell it for 30 bucks I wouldn't be as likely to require a try before buy option or even a refund option. I think steam's holiday sales showed that people were very willing to purchase games at a reduced price, heck, I spent $100 I would not have to pick up 20 games (some were in packs) I have always been interested in but was never willing to spend 20 bucks for.
<!--quoteo(post=1750716:date=Feb 4 2010, 06:11 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm in the US<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's much less lucky. But good job with returns policies anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1750716:date=Feb 4 2010, 06:11 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree with that reason also, as it punishes all customers for the possible actions of a few ... If most games were priced appropriately (no, not every new game is worth 50 bucks just because it is new) and they could be resold then it wouldn't be as much of an issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> See, that makes too much logical sense. You should think more in terms of greed and fear to understand what's what in the economy.
Lowering prices will look like losing money to the company as long as they're not familiar with studies that show otherwise, and often even after that. That doesn't extend to just developers either: sub-50$ titles may actually get less hits only because customers expect 50$ labels to appear on everything these days, and anything less is apparently cheaper for a reason of being crap (budget titles, basically). It's logically conflicting with then asking for cheaper titles in the same breath (everyone wants cheaper things), but you'd be surprised how skilled even you yourself can be at doublethink.
Draconic DRM is an extension of this. You have to be detached from dependence on large profits to analyse the subject coolly, which is why it's the indie, low-return, low-dependence companies that care for their work and customers first and profits second that ever side with less draconian measures (GOG, Stardock, 2D Boy, arguably Valve, etc.).
<!--quoteo(post=1750628:date=Feb 3 2010, 08:30 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 3 2010, 08:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone else got massive disagreement with most magazine reviews nowadays? I guess it's about finding one reliable source (friends?) and sticking with it, but still it I just don't feel like trusting reviews easily. Take Black & White for example, it has still got 90/100 in metacritic despite the game having so many massive flaws after you've shrugged off the first amazement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, let's see. IGN never rates stuff really low unless it's terrible, Gamespot never was any good, and PC Gamer gave Far Cry 2 high marks. Did they even take the time to play more than 3 hours?
So yeah, I typically bug a bunch of friends I trust before buying anything. While the reviewers give decent initial impressions, if it's a AAA title it automatically gets a good review, which frankly I see as poor. Heck, Empire Total War was nearly unplayable until the most recent patch, and the AI is still a half-tard that never invades my enemies when we're allied unless their stack will win with 90% chance on the siege. Any yet nearly every game reivewer gave it 9+. Currently on metacritic it sits at 9.0 official reviewer, and 6.3 reader reviews. Used to be like <5.0 on reader reviews
<!--quoteo(post=1750745:date=Feb 4 2010, 07:50 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 4 2010, 07:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll take "Reasons foreigners are boring" for 500, Trebek.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've been trying to make sense of your post for about two hours, but I can't. I just can't. You have bested me, good sir.
<!--quoteo(post=1750756:date=Feb 4 2010, 09:38 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 4 2010, 09:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, let's see. IGN never rates stuff really low unless it's terrible, Gamespot never was any good, and PC Gamer gave Far Cry 2 high marks. Did they even take the time to play more than 3 hours?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You'd think people would get a clue after the Kane & Lynch debacle.
Seriously though, it's not that hard to get: where do magazines get their material from?.. What happens if they don't get their material?..
<!--quoteo(post=1750759:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:05 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 4 2010, 01:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You'd think people would get a clue after the Kane & Lynch debacle.
Seriously though, it's not that hard to get: where do magazines get their material from?.. What happens if they don't get their material?..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they COULD always pirate a copy..... I mean buy a copy!
<!--quoteo(post=1750763:date=Feb 4 2010, 10:11 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 4 2010, 10:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, they COULD always pirate a copy..... I mean buy a copy!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They could. But then they'd be laughed at by magazines which print pre-release info.
<!--quoteo(post=1750672:date=Feb 4 2010, 03:54 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 4 2010, 03:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And, of course, used games market works for PC too...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1750759:date=Feb 4 2010, 07:05 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 4 2010, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been trying to make sense of your post for about two hours, but I can't. I just can't. You have bested me, good sir.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Off the cuff, random baseless anti-American statements.
<!--quoteo(post=1750822:date=Feb 4 2010, 08:39 PM:name=That_Annoying_Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (That_Annoying_Kid @ Feb 4 2010, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if zp says a game is good, it has to be okay!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do like Yahtzee's reviews...he's smart enough to not try for a numerical rating system, and instead points out every little annoying thing about the game. They're worth watching for the comedy even if you don't want whatever game it is. He doesn't always tell you if a game is good though.
<!--quoteo(post=1750802:date=Feb 5 2010, 02:14 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 5 2010, 02:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For real?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What? How could you possibly not realise?.. Quite a few sites based around that, not sure if there any for your region, of course...
<!--quoteo(post=1750806:date=Feb 5 2010, 02:22 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 5 2010, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Off the cuff, random baseless anti-American statements.
It's so... <i>retro</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I see, sorry. I just had to share the sentiment.
Oh and that's anti-<i>America</i>, not anti-<i>American</i> statement. Different things if you know the difference between country and its people.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1750806:date=Feb 4 2010, 11:22 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 4 2010, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Off the cuff, random baseless anti-American statements.
It's so... <i>retro</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I take offense at this. The European component of UWE has never once failed in it's requirements to make anti-American rhetoric part of our daily tirade, and I dare you to find evidence to the contrary. Next you'll be expecting us to take you seriously. I doff my hat to you, sir.
<!--quoteo(post=1750831:date=Feb 4 2010, 08:00 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Feb 4 2010, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do like Yahtzee's reviews...he's smart enough to not try for a numerical rating system, and instead points out every little annoying thing about the game. They're worth watching for the comedy even if you don't want whatever game it is. He doesn't always tell you if a game is good though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've just learned to figure out how bad he's bashing it if I'll like it. Basically, see review for stuff like Bioshock, CoD4, and Orange Box for things he liked but still ranted on, versus actually painful games.
And any time he talks about something that isn't a FPS, he most likely will hate it. Even if it's the ultimate game for that genre in recent history (i.e. Dragon Age).
<!--quoteo(post=1751075:date=Feb 5 2010, 10:23 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 5 2010, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And any time he talks about something that isn't Branston Pickle, he most likely will hate it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fix'd.
I sincerely think his review style is less product of misogyny and more one of honesty (ignoring entertainment value for a moment). Everything sucks, it's only a matter of how far you're willing to go to ignore whatever little good there is to the thing: Mass Effect fans are willing to look past lack of gameplay for the story, Modern Warfare fans are willing to look past lack of story for the gameplay - I'm generalising, of course - while Yahtzee<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> will simply scold both. Even when it comes to games he did enjoy (Saint's Row and um... Erm...).
<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->*Spellchecker: "Did you mean: Yahweh?"<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1751101:date=Feb 5 2010, 08:45 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 5 2010, 08:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even when it comes to games he did enjoy (Saint's Row and um... Erm...).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fairly sure he has an entirely positive review of Portal up somewhere, with nothing bad to say about it at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1751101:date=Feb 5 2010, 08:45 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 5 2010, 08:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Mass Effect fans are willing to look past lack of gameplay for the story...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speaking of the Mass Effect story, Saren was right.
<!--quoteo(post=1751140:date=Feb 6 2010, 01:24 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ Feb 6 2010, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fairly sure he has an entirely positive review of Portal up somewhere, with nothing bad to say about it at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe he simply refused to review it because there was nothing bad to be said about it.
Yahtzee, think about his reviews however you may, is the <b>only</b> game reviewer in the entire goddamn industry who understands what a <u>CRITIC</u> is.
Almost every other 'professional' game review these days reads like a 4-page advertisement, hyping up the game for the players and glosses over or simply ignores the flaws. How come games are the only ones that work like that? When it comes to movies, reviewers (CRITICS) are more than happy to 1-star a hyped-up film - and usually with good reason.
Then again I think most people hate Yahtzee because he said bad things you're scared to admit are true about your favorite game.
<!--quoteo(post=1751260:date=Feb 6 2010, 04:09 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 6 2010, 04:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe he simply refused to review it because there was nothing bad to be said about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lastly, there's Portal, and if you're a regular viewer you'll understand how insane these words feel coming out of my mouth, but I can't think of any criticism for it. I'm serious, this is the most fun you'll have with your PC until they invent a force-feedback codpiece. I went in expecting a slew of interesting portal-based puzzles and that's exactly what I got. What I wasn't expecting was some of the funniest pitch black humor I've ever heard in a game. OK, it's only two to three hours long, but that's a good length for it, it means that it doesn't outstay it's welcome, and it narrows the gap between you and the balls-tightening fantastic ending. Absolutely sublime from start to finish and I will jam forks into my eyes if I ever use those words to describe anything else ever again.
Yeah, I know it's not very funny if I love a game, but ###### you. Portal's great and if you don't think so you must be stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn <i>facts</i>, always getting in the way of a good rant.
<!--quoteo(post=1751264:date=Feb 6 2010, 09:47 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 6 2010, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yahtzee, think about his reviews however you may, is the <b>only</b> game reviewer in the entire goddamn industry who understands what a <u>CRITIC</u> is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh for Christ's sake, yes. What the hell is going on.
(Minding Kane & Lynch debacle, that's a rhetorical question.)
<!--quoteo(post=1751264:date=Feb 6 2010, 09:47 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 6 2010, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then again I think most people hate Yahtzee because he said bad things you're scared to admit are true about your favorite game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most likely. Hell, I believe he thoroughly trashed at least three games I think are up there with the best of all time (Torchlight, MW2, Left 4 Dead).
<!--quoteo(post=1751265:date=Feb 6 2010, 10:00 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Feb 6 2010, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Damn <i>facts</i>, always getting in the way of a good rant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough.
I think people are sort of harsh on the big-name websites' reviews. Generally when I read a gamespot or IGN review, I do feel like I have a better sense of whether I would like a game in question. The reviews are never 100% positive. Honestly, though, I usually skim for the negative criticisms, and if they sound like downsides I can deal with, then I'll take a chance on the game. I always read reviews before I get a game, and I don't think I have once been surprised at my reaction to it - I've never felt like I was lied to by a reviewer. Of course I never played Kane & Lynch. :)
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Got my copy of Bioshock 2 this morning (it's installing now), and figured I'd check a few torrent sites to see if it's been cracked yet, and it looks like it has. At least, there are plenty of seeded downloads for it, although I guess it's possible that they're fake / viruses.
Either way I hope I don't have as much trouble with GFWL with this as I did with Arkham Asylum. GFWL can go jump off a bridge.
Wait bioshock 2 is out? Crap I didn't know, gotta get it because it looked quite good.
Also I usually just look at the metascore, honestly it's a reliable proxy of the quality of a game, generally anything that gets over 90 is worth looking at, anything less can be fun but it's more hit and miss.
<!--quoteo(post=1750696:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:19 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I go see a crappy movie at the theater I get a refund. If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund. If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund. If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund. If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.
Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.
I can't even read magazine/game site reviews anymore. When I agree with 10% of them that involve the games I play the lack of reliability of matching my viewpoint makes them worthless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aside from if the video card is actually faulty, I can't imagine why you'd get a refund for any of those.
Having crap taste in films, food, books, and games is not everyone else's fault.
Comments
Or am I missing something completely obvious here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a perfectly free market every potential consumer sets the price he is willing to pay.
Every manufacturer sets the price he is willing to sell at.
If 90% of the potential consumers are willing to pay less than 20$, but the manufacturer wants 21$, than your product can only cover 10% of the market. This usually leads to prices declining at some point. Hence the consumer sets the price in a free market.
Of course this example holds only true for goods like video games, where you can sell every person only 1 object.
No, it presumes some people will choose to pirate instead of paying for the game, which is hardly a stretch of imagination. The point is that there's no way to separate these players from those who buy the game after pirating, those who wouldn't have bought it anyway, and so on.
Also ######. Myself, I recently inadvertently bought a pirated version of MW2 (it's what happens, no way to get legit stuff over here) and then figured to get legit one through some distant on-line store (yay multiplayer)... The pirated version was more stable, had no cut content, and didn't block language switching. And they wonder...
<!--quoteo(post=1750591:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Huh?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whuh?
<!--quoteo(post=1750591:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And that justifies not releasing demos because...? I'm not saying you're trying to justify it but if that's what game publishers are thinking when they don't release demos then it's pretty clear to see how that's a contributing factor to piracy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's correct. However, getting a demo out for any system is a pretty big investment of time and money, so...
<!--quoteo(post=1750591:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Money lost on consoles is just far harder to track. Walk into a gamestop / eb games / babbages. See how 80% of the store is covered in used games? That's equivalent to piracy on the PC but is far harder to trace compared to looking at how many times a torrent has been downloaded. More traditional forms of piracy still exist on consoles as we recently saw <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/12/cnet.xbox.live.ban/index.html" target="_blank">1 million xbox users</a> get banned for modifying their consoles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I'm talking about. 1 million users is nothing compared to swarms of hundred million you get on PC. And, of course, used games market works for PC too...
<!--quoteo(post=1750591:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 4 2010, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Usually your posts don't suck, Draco<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aww. Thanks.
<!--quoteo(post=1750628:date=Feb 4 2010, 05:30 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 4 2010, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone else got massive disagreement with most magazine reviews nowadays?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reviews for any medium are never going to be fully objective. In big media, however, you get the domino effect where a publisher may not offer your magazine/site any more material it needs to live if you don't publish favourable reviews...
If I go see a crappy movie at the theater I get a refund.
If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund.
If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund.
If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund.
If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.
Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.
I can't even read magazine/game site reviews anymore. When I agree with 10% of them that involve the games I play the lack of reliability of matching my viewpoint makes them worthless.
If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund.
If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund.
If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund.
If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. You're lucky, it's against the law to ask for refund on most of those things here...
As a sidenote, I personally deeply enjoyed Grenade of Grenade: Grenade Grenade 2. Albeit the Multigrenade mode is kinda unbalanced.
<!--quoteo(post=1750696:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:19 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's unjust, but the difference is, developers can get away with this injustice on consoles no problem... And, really, as any company concerned with profit, law and public satisfaction can always be ignored if it gets in the way of sale figures.
Maybe it would lead to better sales... Ideally. The problem with that assumption is the the same as it is with assuming competition means better quality products. On one hand, you can release better quality products and assume the educated consumer picks it... Or you can make sure customer isn't aware of the tricks you're pulling behind his back and make some extra dough by selling them crap.
Guess which approach wins.
If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund.
If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund.
If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund.
If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.
Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason for this (and I am not sure I agree with it, but this is the reason), is that you could go home, make an ISO and return it. This could take all of 5 minutes and you now have a full copy of the game to enjoy at any time. You can't walk into a movie theater, sit down for 5 minutes and then leave with the ability to experience the movie theater version at any time you want for free. It basically boils down to the whole finite resources versus digital ones.
This is why many games sell a collectors edition. It offers finite resources (books, character models, etc) offering people a reason to buy it instead of pirating it.
If you dont greet the hat on a pole, you get the stick'tan
I'm in the US, almost every service and product offers the option for a refund if not satisfied. There are a few exceptions (sales that specify something being sold 'as is' or at a discount that has a no return policy attached). The logic is that the few people who are not satisfied get a refund and then don't badmouth the company to everyone else.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (comprox)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason for this (and I am not sure I agree with it, but this is the reason), is that you could go home, make an ISO and return it. This could take all of 5 minutes and you now have a full copy of the game to enjoy at any time. You can't walk into a movie theater, sit down for 5 minutes and then leave with the ability to experience the movie theater version at any time you want for free. It basically boils down to the whole finite resources versus digital ones.
This is why many games sell a collectors edition. It offers finite resources (books, character models, etc) offering people a reason to buy it instead of pirating it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with that reason also, as it punishes all customers for the possible actions of a few. It's easier to simply acquire a cracked copy from the internet than it is to make your own ISO anyway. Plus, when combined with online registration it kills the secondary market, which is part of what fuels the primary market.
If most games were priced appropriately (no, not every new game is worth 50 bucks just because it is new) and they could be resold then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. If I bought Battlefield 2 for 50 bucks, found it sucked, and could sell it for 30 bucks I wouldn't be as likely to require a try before buy option or even a refund option. I think steam's holiday sales showed that people were very willing to purchase games at a reduced price, heck, I spent $100 I would not have to pick up 20 games (some were in packs) I have always been interested in but was never willing to spend 20 bucks for.
That's much less lucky. But good job with returns policies anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1750716:date=Feb 4 2010, 06:11 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree with that reason also, as it punishes all customers for the possible actions of a few ... If most games were priced appropriately (no, not every new game is worth 50 bucks just because it is new) and they could be resold then it wouldn't be as much of an issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, that makes too much logical sense. You should think more in terms of greed and fear to understand what's what in the economy.
Lowering prices will look like losing money to the company as long as they're not familiar with studies that show otherwise, and often even after that. That doesn't extend to just developers either: sub-50$ titles may actually get less hits only because customers expect 50$ labels to appear on everything these days, and anything less is apparently cheaper for a reason of being crap (budget titles, basically). It's logically conflicting with then asking for cheaper titles in the same breath (everyone wants cheaper things), but you'd be surprised how skilled even you yourself can be at doublethink.
Draconic DRM is an extension of this. You have to be detached from dependence on large profits to analyse the subject coolly, which is why it's the indie, low-return, low-dependence companies that care for their work and customers first and profits second that ever side with less draconian measures (GOG, Stardock, 2D Boy, arguably Valve, etc.).
I'll take "Reasons foreigners are boring" for 500, Trebek.
<img src="http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Well, let's see. IGN never rates stuff really low unless it's terrible, Gamespot never was any good, and PC Gamer gave Far Cry 2 high marks. Did they even take the time to play more than 3 hours?
So yeah, I typically bug a bunch of friends I trust before buying anything. While the reviewers give decent initial impressions, if it's a AAA title it automatically gets a good review, which frankly I see as poor. Heck, Empire Total War was nearly unplayable until the most recent patch, and the AI is still a half-tard that never invades my enemies when we're allied unless their stack will win with 90% chance on the siege. Any yet nearly every game reivewer gave it 9+. Currently on metacritic it sits at 9.0 official reviewer, and 6.3 reader reviews. Used to be like <5.0 on reader reviews
I've been trying to make sense of your post for about two hours, but I can't. I just can't. You have bested me, good sir.
<!--quoteo(post=1750756:date=Feb 4 2010, 09:38 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 4 2010, 09:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, let's see. IGN never rates stuff really low unless it's terrible, Gamespot never was any good, and PC Gamer gave Far Cry 2 high marks. Did they even take the time to play more than 3 hours?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd think people would get a clue after the Kane & Lynch debacle.
Seriously though, it's not that hard to get: where do magazines get their material from?.. What happens if they don't get their material?..
Seriously though, it's not that hard to get: where do magazines get their material from?.. What happens if they don't get their material?..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they COULD always pirate a copy..... I mean buy a copy!
They could. But then they'd be laughed at by magazines which print pre-release info.
For real?
I swear I'm being trolled.
Off the cuff, random baseless anti-American statements.
It's so... <i>retro</i>.
I do like Yahtzee's reviews...he's smart enough to not try for a numerical rating system, and instead points out every little annoying thing about the game. They're worth watching for the comedy even if you don't want whatever game it is. He doesn't always tell you if a game is good though.
What? How could you possibly not realise?.. Quite a few sites based around that, not sure if there any for your region, of course...
<!--quoteo(post=1750806:date=Feb 5 2010, 02:22 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 5 2010, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Off the cuff, random baseless anti-American statements.
It's so... <i>retro</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see, sorry. I just had to share the sentiment.
Oh and that's anti-<i>America</i>, not anti-<i>American</i> statement. Different things if you know the difference between country and its people.
It's so... <i>retro</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I take offense at this. The European component of UWE has never once failed in it's requirements to make anti-American rhetoric part of our daily tirade, and I dare you to find evidence to the contrary. Next you'll be expecting us to take you seriously. I doff my hat to you, sir.
I've just learned to figure out how bad he's bashing it if I'll like it. Basically, see review for stuff like Bioshock, CoD4, and Orange Box for things he liked but still ranted on, versus actually painful games.
And any time he talks about something that isn't a FPS, he most likely will hate it. Even if it's the ultimate game for that genre in recent history (i.e. Dragon Age).
Fix'd.
I sincerely think his review style is less product of misogyny and more one of honesty (ignoring entertainment value for a moment). Everything sucks, it's only a matter of how far you're willing to go to ignore whatever little good there is to the thing: Mass Effect fans are willing to look past lack of gameplay for the story, Modern Warfare fans are willing to look past lack of story for the gameplay - I'm generalising, of course - while Yahtzee<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> will simply scold both. Even when it comes to games he did enjoy (Saint's Row and um... Erm...).
<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->*Spellchecker: "Did you mean: Yahweh?"<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Now, back to our scheduled programming.
Fairly sure he has an entirely positive review of Portal up somewhere, with nothing bad to say about it at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1751101:date=Feb 5 2010, 08:45 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 5 2010, 08:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Mass Effect fans are willing to look past lack of gameplay for the story...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speaking of the Mass Effect story, Saren was right.
I believe he simply refused to review it because there was nothing bad to be said about it.
Almost every other 'professional' game review these days reads like a 4-page advertisement, hyping up the game for the players and glosses over or simply ignores the flaws. How come games are the only ones that work like that? When it comes to movies, reviewers (CRITICS) are more than happy to 1-star a hyped-up film - and usually with good reason.
Then again I think most people hate Yahtzee because he said bad things you're scared to admit are true about your favorite game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lastly, there's Portal, and if you're a regular viewer you'll understand how insane these words feel coming out of my mouth, but I can't think of any criticism for it. I'm serious, this is the most fun you'll have with your PC until they invent a force-feedback codpiece. I went in expecting a slew of interesting portal-based puzzles and that's exactly what I got. What I wasn't expecting was some of the funniest pitch black humor I've ever heard in a game. OK, it's only two to three hours long, but that's a good length for it, it means that it doesn't outstay it's welcome, and it narrows the gap between you and the balls-tightening fantastic ending. Absolutely sublime from start to finish and I will jam forks into my eyes if I ever use those words to describe anything else ever again.
Yeah, I know it's not very funny if I love a game, but ###### you. Portal's great and if you don't think so you must be stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn <i>facts</i>, always getting in the way of a good rant.
--Scythe--
Oh for Christ's sake, yes. What the hell is going on.
(Minding Kane & Lynch debacle, that's a rhetorical question.)
<!--quoteo(post=1751264:date=Feb 6 2010, 09:47 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Feb 6 2010, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then again I think most people hate Yahtzee because he said bad things you're scared to admit are true about your favorite game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most likely. Hell, I believe he thoroughly trashed at least three games I think are up there with the best of all time (Torchlight, MW2, Left 4 Dead).
<!--quoteo(post=1751265:date=Feb 6 2010, 10:00 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Feb 6 2010, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Damn <i>facts</i>, always getting in the way of a good rant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough.
Either way I hope I don't have as much trouble with GFWL with this as I did with Arkham Asylum. GFWL can go jump off a bridge.
Also I usually just look at the metascore, honestly it's a reliable proxy of the quality of a game, generally anything that gets over 90 is worth looking at, anything less can be fun but it's more hit and miss.
<!--quoteo(post=1750696:date=Feb 4 2010, 01:19 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Feb 4 2010, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I go see a crappy movie at the theater I get a refund.
If my dinner sucks at a restaurant I get a refund.
If I'm not satisfied with a book I bought from a bookstore expect to get a refund.
If I buy a video card and it doesn't work as well as described I expect to get a refund.
If I buy CoD MW2 for the xBox I expect a refund.
Software for a PC not being able to be returned should not guarantee a sale just because someone bought it initially. I think they would have higher sales if people didn't have to risk the complete purchase based on what is described.
I can't even read magazine/game site reviews anymore. When I agree with 10% of them that involve the games I play the lack of reliability of matching my viewpoint makes them worthless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aside from if the video card is actually faulty, I can't imagine why you'd get a refund for any of those.
Having crap taste in films, food, books, and games is not everyone else's fault.