I'm expecting a slow start for the game at first. Since the game is being exposed in such a large scale (all pre-purchasers get access to alpha/beta) things may get rough for them to release something in time that will live up to people's expectation. They will hear a lot of naysayers go saying "vapourware" due to this. Interest could therefore decline before the game is released.
However, what is more likely is that the modding scene for NS2 will grow almost as fast as the game itself does during alpha and beta. With developer feedback and features being added that will give the game plenty of welcoming hugs to new players to mod the game. But regarding the actual NS2 gameplay I remain sceptical. Even though they have done NS1 this new concept is quite far from the original one they created back then, and it's their first focused effort with money behind it which most likely changes things. For example they have to consider the target audience which will be different from NS1. We don't even know if they are able to or have done internal testing yet. Developers haven't mentioned how fun the game is and their own beliefs on the new system.
My future vision of the game though is a very varied, frantic and tactical game. There's going to be imbalances at first that will take quite some time to overcome. Mods will be a common thing when looking for servers and in time the team will be getting a lot of attention from communities looking for the next great platform to work on.
umm I think you'll find that most players agree, that the jump timing for bhop is overly strict, and that the rewarding part is the manipulation of air control using the mouse and strafe keys....
So if you made it so you could hold down the button to do the jump timing, but left every thing as it was, it would be an amazing system. In fact making the jump timing easier is all a bhop script does... so we pretty much already did that in ns1. just needed scripts. You could also assign jump to your mouse wheel.
Also removing the jump timing wouldn't make bhop be significantly easier.
Mod scene is kind of random. With Half-Life we've seen it be the best thing that ever happened, something that kept community and the games afloat, and producing such gargantuas as Counter-Strike. And right now it seems it might as not be there, with the rare exception of Garry's Mod or such. I honestly have no idea how will NS2 modding scene play out in the light of this, but as a developer, I sure as hell am excited.
<!--quoteo(post=1745799:date=Jan 5 2010, 08:35 PM:name=ghost in the shell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghost in the shell @ Jan 5 2010, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ps do you ever sleep draco_2k? u've posted every 2 hours or are you really a vampire<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I seem to have developed insomnia recently. Although I don't think it has anything to do with blood that started to randomly appear around my mouth and surrounding clothes.
<!--quoteo(post=1745816:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Geez... Honestly Draco_2k you could try to be a bit more concise with your posts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> :( ?
<!--quoteo(post=1745816:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here you say it's possible...
...and here you doubt it. Or do you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's a good thing and a bad thing all in one. Bad parts should be cut off. If it doesn't belong in general, good ones should be as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1745841:date=Jan 6 2010, 02:18 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Jan 6 2010, 02:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mod scene is kind of random. With Half-Life we've seen it be the best thing that ever happened, something that kept community and the games afloat, and producing such gargantuas as Counter-Strike. And right now it seems it might as not be there, with the rare exception of Garry's Mod or such. I honestly have no idea how will NS2 modding scene play out in the light of this, but as a developer, I sure as hell am excited.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems to be due to how much effort needs to go into making next-gen art assets from what I can tell. Back in the HL modding days it was easy to make an oblong box, make it black and grey and call it a shotgun (obviously there was more to it...) but it seems that generally with source & co. a lot of work has to go into just making stuff look good. Not just in modelling programs either, but when rendered in-game the source engine has the uncanny ability to make something look crap by default.
NS2 seems to be making everything a lot easier to produce and code with the exception of models, but from what I can tell the default rendering in the engine can make something relatively simple look really good if done right. So I'm pretty hopeful, word just needs to get out really.
<!--quoteo(post=1745875:date=Jan 6 2010, 01:24 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Jan 6 2010, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745875"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This seems to be due to how much effort needs to go into making next-gen art assets from what I can tell. Back in the HL modding days it was easy to make an oblong box, make it black and grey and call it a shotgun (obviously there was more to it...) but it seems that generally with source & co. a lot of work has to go into just making stuff look good. Not just in modelling programs either, but when rendered in-game the source engine has the uncanny ability to make something look crap by default.
NS2 seems to be making everything a lot easier to produce and code with the exception of models, but from what I can tell the default rendering in the engine can make something relatively simple look really good if done right. So I'm pretty hopeful, word just needs to get out really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Absolutely. If anything, I'm 99% certain this won't be a problem for NS2: the mapping, the scripting and even importing is just the easiest thing I've come across in years. Levels and mods can use myriads of existing assets, coding with Lua is about as intuitive as it'll get, and importing custom props and textures is just... Easy. Hell, I bet Gmod is actually harder to grasp than this. This is something UW were aiming for from day 1 too, so no surprise there.
As far as I'm concerned, there is just no comparison to Source, GoldSrc, or even Unreal or Q3 engines - and those were the modding mastadonts back in the day, or even... Well, they still are.
<!--quoteo(post=1745875:date=Jan 6 2010, 05:24 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Jan 6 2010, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745875"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This seems to be due to how much effort needs to go into making next-gen art assets from what I can tell.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The other day I was thinking about why the HL2 mod scene is such garbage and this was my first thought. As I thought about it more, I realized this isn't really true. There are a lot of beautiful mods out there that are still empty (examples: Stargate: The Last Stand and Orion). I think the biggest problem with HL2 mods is 1) the source engine just sucks 2) the mods developed are not interesting and 3) increased competition from other games, mods or not.
To expand on my first point, there is very little about the source engine I like. The thing I hate the most is how the weapons feel and how players get pushed around when they're hit by bullets/projectiles. These two are enough to make me rage out of most source based mods. Aside from the art assets there's no real creativity going into these mods, nothing to make them unique. They're all basically 'get a gun, shoot someone, repeat' with no objective or the basic and boring 'plant a bomb / capture a point.' I mean, look at <a href="http://www.hamandjam.org/" target="_blank">Ham and Jam.</a> This mod just seems like a waste of time. Do we really need another WW2 mod? Game developers now-a-days seem to be getting away from amazing graphics and getting back to solid gameplay with sufficient graphics to ensure most computers can run their game. An example would be something like SC2 or the DOTA-clone Heroes of Newerth. It feels like more games are being developed now than ever before, most are pretty cool, and when you include the price drops for the 360 and PS3 it seems like gamers have a lot of options to turn to.
Imho, the right choice shouldn't be an automated BH but a different one. I don't know if you've played Painkiller, but Pk's BH is probably the best BH I've ever seen. In order to do a simple BH, you just have to press a direction and jump with an easy timing. But skilled players BH faster, change directions, dodge...
New players would love it, experienced ones too.
<!--quoteo(post=1745800:date=Jan 5 2010, 07:11 PM:name=blackpiranha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackpiranha @ Jan 5 2010, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just hope for an alpha release in january. lol, kidding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1746003:date=Jan 7 2010, 01:17 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Jan 7 2010, 01:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1746003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why did I just type this out?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because everyone who ever tried to deal with HL2 scene is just as frustrated. If anything, yes, I'd have to say Source is just pretty damn mod-unfriendly from the start, no matter how hard it tries to the contrary...
But even then, you still an <a href="http://www.moddb.com/mods/research-and-development" target="_blank">occasional gem</a> or <a href="http://www.garrysmod.com/" target="_blank">two</a>. If we're lucky then, NS2 will have at least a dozen.
What do I expect ns2 to be... I would have to say I want it to be 1.5times better than NS1. New but not different. I want the old NS1 feel. Graphics can go any which way. And from what I've seen in the spark editor with lit ticked. I'm pleased with what I see. I would also hope for more polishing. refinement. better implementation. And a COMBAT MODE would be nice. ;]
tell me people, what do you think of <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108508&st=80" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...08508&st=80</a> (second post). i still have no feedback on this idea :(
I like some of those tgaud. You'd just have to make sure that you can't stack the parasite slow unto itself. And you'd either have to limit the amount of times person A can be infected by attack A per life. Or put in a "cooldown before vulnerable to said attack again"
Implementation. Being parasited once makes you slower (filler symptom). Can only be inflicted once per life, (the parasite yellow glow and the slow status.) Or. Have the parasite be lifted after x amount of seconds and also have slow be lifted, with a "cool down" or 3-15 seconds (whichever is necessary) for it to feel like you're not slow or dizzy / green screen every second you're playing the game.
Yes for that idea i had in mind to slow the marine for approx 10 seconds. You can easily imagine how it'll be use :
If a marine is parasited, and slower/unable to jump, it's a lot harder to dodge the skulks attacks. So most of them will simply wait until the slow effect disappear before going more forward. So it can be use by good players to slow down a little the progression of the team, or make marines easier target for lerk gaz etc.
I want it to be really competitive, large skill difference with players where skill and thinking actually mattered. Unlike CS I would like it to be skill-based I dont even mind hard grasp at the begining but it wouldnt attract new players. Impossible to master, unique lifeforms with multiple tasks and priorities, wide tactics with changing priorities and goals.
Should the movement be very predictable unlike in NS1, it would get really boring quickly and only appeal to those not putting effort in improving. Skulk movement in NS1 is very good example how to do hard to master movement especially after wallhop.
Not knowing about scripts or whatever tweaks acceptable by the gaming community is a sin. They have always been available most people are just turning eye and blame own inexperience at scripts etc. Therefore I hope community to decide whatever is acceptable and what is not.
Strategic dept I hope this game to achieve is probably too much but I certainly hope it doesnt go below NS1 as it would make this game no more than average FPS out there.
Comments
Since the game is being exposed in such a large scale (all pre-purchasers get access to alpha/beta) things may get rough for them to release something in time that will live up to people's expectation. They will hear a lot of naysayers go saying "vapourware" due to this.
Interest could therefore decline before the game is released.
However, what is more likely is that the modding scene for NS2 will grow almost as fast as the game itself does during alpha and beta.
With developer feedback and features being added that will give the game plenty of welcoming hugs to new players to mod the game.
But regarding the actual NS2 gameplay I remain sceptical. Even though they have done NS1 this new concept is quite far from the original one they created back then, and it's their first focused effort with money behind it which most likely changes things.
For example they have to consider the target audience which will be different from NS1.
We don't even know if they are able to or have done internal testing yet.
Developers haven't mentioned how fun the game is and their own beliefs on the new system.
My future vision of the game though is a very varied, frantic and tactical game.
There's going to be imbalances at first that will take quite some time to overcome. Mods will be a common thing when looking for servers and in time the team will be getting a lot of attention from communities looking for the next great platform to work on.
umm I think you'll find that most players agree, that the jump timing for bhop is overly strict, and that the rewarding part is the manipulation of air control using the mouse and strafe keys....
So if you made it so you could hold down the button to do the jump timing, but left every thing as it was, it would be an amazing system. In fact making the jump timing easier is all a bhop script does... so we pretty much already did that in ns1. just needed scripts. You could also assign jump to your mouse wheel.
Also removing the jump timing wouldn't make bhop be significantly easier.
<!--quoteo(post=1745799:date=Jan 5 2010, 08:35 PM:name=ghost in the shell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghost in the shell @ Jan 5 2010, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ps do you ever sleep draco_2k? u've posted every 2 hours
or are you really a vampire<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I seem to have developed insomnia recently. Although I don't think it has anything to do with blood that started to randomly appear around my mouth and surrounding clothes.
<!--quoteo(post=1745816:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Geez... Honestly Draco_2k you could try to be a bit more concise with your posts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:( ?
<!--quoteo(post=1745816:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jan 6 2010, 12:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here you say it's possible...
...and here you doubt it. Or do you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a good thing and a bad thing all in one. Bad parts should be cut off. If it doesn't belong in general, good ones should be as well.
This seems to be due to how much effort needs to go into making next-gen art assets from what I can tell. Back in the HL modding days it was easy to make an oblong box, make it black and grey and call it a shotgun (obviously there was more to it...) but it seems that generally with source & co. a lot of work has to go into just making stuff look good. Not just in modelling programs either, but when rendered in-game the source engine has the uncanny ability to make something look crap by default.
NS2 seems to be making everything a lot easier to produce and code with the exception of models, but from what I can tell the default rendering in the engine can make something relatively simple look really good if done right. So I'm pretty hopeful, word just needs to get out really.
NS2 seems to be making everything a lot easier to produce and code with the exception of models, but from what I can tell the default rendering in the engine can make something relatively simple look really good if done right. So I'm pretty hopeful, word just needs to get out really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely. If anything, I'm 99% certain this won't be a problem for NS2: the mapping, the scripting and even importing is just the easiest thing I've come across in years. Levels and mods can use myriads of existing assets, coding with Lua is about as intuitive as it'll get, and importing custom props and textures is just... Easy. Hell, I bet Gmod is actually harder to grasp than this. This is something UW were aiming for from day 1 too, so no surprise there.
As far as I'm concerned, there is just no comparison to Source, GoldSrc, or even Unreal or Q3 engines - and those were the modding mastadonts back in the day, or even... Well, they still are.
The other day I was thinking about why the HL2 mod scene is such garbage and this was my first thought. As I thought about it more, I realized this isn't really true. There are a lot of beautiful mods out there that are still empty (examples: Stargate: The Last Stand and Orion). I think the biggest problem with HL2 mods is 1) the source engine just sucks 2) the mods developed are not interesting and 3) increased competition from other games, mods or not.
To expand on my first point, there is very little about the source engine I like. The thing I hate the most is how the weapons feel and how players get pushed around when they're hit by bullets/projectiles. These two are enough to make me rage out of most source based mods. Aside from the art assets there's no real creativity going into these mods, nothing to make them unique. They're all basically 'get a gun, shoot someone, repeat' with no objective or the basic and boring 'plant a bomb / capture a point.' I mean, look at <a href="http://www.hamandjam.org/" target="_blank">Ham and Jam.</a> This mod just seems like a waste of time. Do we really need another WW2 mod? Game developers now-a-days seem to be getting away from amazing graphics and getting back to solid gameplay with sufficient graphics to ensure most computers can run their game. An example would be something like SC2 or the DOTA-clone Heroes of Newerth. It feels like more games are being developed now than ever before, most are pretty cool, and when you include the price drops for the 360 and PS3 it seems like gamers have a lot of options to turn to.
Why did I just type this out?
Imho, the right choice shouldn't be an automated BH but a different one. I don't know if you've played Painkiller, but Pk's BH is probably the best BH I've ever seen. In order to do a simple BH, you just have to press a direction and jump with an easy timing. But skilled players BH faster, change directions, dodge...
New players would love it, experienced ones too.
<!--quoteo(post=1745800:date=Jan 5 2010, 07:11 PM:name=blackpiranha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackpiranha @ Jan 5 2010, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just hope for an alpha release in january. lol, kidding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe, maybe ! :)
Because everyone who ever tried to deal with HL2 scene is just as frustrated. If anything, yes, I'd have to say Source is just pretty damn mod-unfriendly from the start, no matter how hard it tries to the contrary...
But even then, you still an <a href="http://www.moddb.com/mods/research-and-development" target="_blank">occasional gem</a> or <a href="http://www.garrysmod.com/" target="_blank">two</a>. If we're lucky then, NS2 will have at least a dozen.
I would have to say I want it to be 1.5times better than NS1.
New but not different.
I want the old NS1 feel.
Graphics can go any which way. And from what I've seen in the spark editor with lit ticked.
I'm pleased with what I see.
I would also hope for more polishing. refinement. better implementation.
And a COMBAT MODE would be nice. ;]
multiplatform
multiplatform<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only on different OS for the PC.
It would never work in the console market.
Think of Counter-strike for the pc.
Then look at Counter-strike for the xbox. etc.
i still have no feedback on this idea :(
Implementation.
Being parasited once makes you slower (filler symptom). Can only be inflicted once per life, (the parasite yellow glow and the slow status.)
Or. Have the parasite be lifted after x amount of seconds and also have slow be lifted, with a "cool down" or 3-15 seconds (whichever is necessary) for it to feel like you're not slow or dizzy / green screen every second you're playing the game.
You can easily imagine how it'll be use :
If a marine is parasited, and slower/unable to jump, it's a lot harder to dodge the skulks attacks.
So most of them will simply wait until the slow effect disappear before going more forward.
So it can be use by good players to slow down a little the progression of the team, or make marines easier target for lerk gaz etc.
That's for the parasite idea.
Should the movement be very predictable unlike in NS1, it would get really boring quickly and only appeal to those not putting effort in improving. Skulk movement in NS1 is very good example how to do hard to master movement especially after wallhop.
Not knowing about scripts or whatever tweaks acceptable by the gaming community is a sin. They have always been available most people are just turning eye and blame own inexperience at scripts etc. Therefore I hope community to decide whatever is acceptable and what is not.
Strategic dept I hope this game to achieve is probably too much but I certainly hope it doesnt go below NS1 as it would make this game no more than average FPS out there.
No alien commander
and i want it to require skill and not just be some dumbed down casual game with like hats.