Export Tools for custom models ?

BlueOneBlueOne Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7036Members
Hi,

So I was wondering, when will we have the pleasure to import custom models in the editor ? Is it planned to release theses tools ?
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Comments

  • DalzigDalzig Join Date: 2009-06-02 Member: 67629Members
    Last I heard, "We hope to" ... "sometime in the future".... "be able to import Collada models"...

    Something like that.
  • marksmarks Join Date: 2008-07-28 Member: 64720Members
    edited December 2009
    Don't expect it anytime soon. Most custom props /will/ suck hard compared to UWE's stuff, and that's a fact not an opinion. They would be catering to a minority.
  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    edited December 2009
    For what I gather, there'll be a tool for easily batch-converting pretty much every popular texture and model format, if not simply being to put the stuff in the right folders and have it "just work". No idea if it'll make into Alpha, of course

    <!--quoteo(post=1743323:date=Dec 10 2009, 09:31 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Dec 10 2009, 09:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They would be catering to a minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Exactly as it is with the level editor, Lua and modding in general.
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=1743328:date=Dec 10 2009, 02:08 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Dec 10 2009, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743328"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For what I gather, there'll be a tool for easily batch-converting pretty much every popular texture and model format, if not simply being to put the stuff in the right folders and have it "just work". No idea if it'll make into Alpha, of course


    Exactly as it is with the level editor, Lua and modding in general.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Artwork is somewhat of a different thing. Leveldesigning can be done by anyone with dedication to the game and a group of testers (levels they hope to buy from the community later on), LUA-modders can be programmers that want to have some fun by making a mod that could have some neat ideas that could be implemented (see how World of Warcraft steadily takes ideas from the UI-modding community and implement it themselves), but graphics however needs to be refined to the point that it fits with their artstyle which most of the times isn't an easy feat to accomplish. It has to hit right on the spot for it even to be worth considering.

    And so far I'm not so sure I've heard of any game taking in art-assets from the community with the exception of unofficial community-packs perhaps. The rest however is commonplace and I can certainly see what they can gain from have given out the level-editor as UWE have.
  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1743351:date=Dec 11 2009, 02:26 AM:name=Triggerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Triggerman @ Dec 11 2009, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Artwork is somewhat of a different thing. Leveldesigning can be done by anyone with dedication to the game and a group of testers (levels they hope to buy from the community later on), LUA-modders can be programmers that want to have some fun by making a mod that could have some neat ideas that could be implemented (see how World of Warcraft steadily takes ideas from the UI-modding community and implement it themselves), but graphics however needs to be refined to the point that it fits with their artstyle which most of the times isn't an easy feat to accomplish. It has to hit right on the spot for it even to be worth considering.

    And so far I'm not so sure I've heard of any game taking in art-assets from the community with the exception of unofficial community-packs perhaps. The rest however is commonplace and I can certainly see what they can gain from have given out the level-editor as UWE have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's certainly a lot harder considering we don't really have anything as intuitive as Spark out there yet. But, still, it's just a gradation of difficulty: fact is, most people will still play the game without even thinking of touching either level editor or scripts.

    We do have Photoshop though, so making skins for already existing geometry and UVW is something that may just be commonplace.
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=1743373:date=Dec 10 2009, 09:31 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Dec 10 2009, 09:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's certainly a lot harder considering we don't really have anything as intuitive as Spark out there yet. But, still, it's just a gradation of difficulty: fact is, most people will still play the game without even thinking of touching either level editor or scripts.

    We do have Photoshop though, so making skins for already existing geometry and UVW is something that may just be commonplace.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    There's a LOT fewer people that can actually do that since they will need a Wacom-tablet, otherwise it's just going to be a recolour of existing textures or simply stock-textures found on the internet that they aren't allowed to use in the first place.
    Oh in case you haven't seen however the ideas that are already brewing for maps, check the stickied thread and try to tell me that there are few of them screenshots :p
  • borgkingborgking Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69504Members
    edited December 2009
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't expect it anytime soon. Most custom props /will/ suck hard compared to UWE's stuff, and that's a fact not an opinion. They would be catering to a minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Honestly, IF the would NOT include model import later, even with the best leveldesigners, every map would look the same, and they would be f**king stupid to let this happen.
    Due to I think they are not that stupid, they will include it later.

    Better 1 good custom model and 1000 bad custom models (which don't have to be in the game later, never forget that) than no custom models.
    There are many bad modelers, and texure artists, and level-designers, but is that reason enough to block of the good ones??? (not talking about the lerning effect of the bad ones)
  • PipiPipi Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69550Members
    I've asked Charlie myself (about 10 days ago, when I couldn't register to the forums) and he kindly answered me that they have a good
    import/export system for Collada. The way I asked him, he said that the feature wasn't available yet. So.. I'm guessing that they will be releasing their importer someday.

    Drone, even without custom textures and props, you can see by the screenshots so far that levels do not look the same, and by the time the game comes out, there will be more artwork release, a lot more I must assume. Sure, the general feeling is the same but that is what you want for a game, after all they are the developpers, and you can see the "signature" of their art director.

    It's like a musical album, imagine a band pre-releasing their album with a few songs and people wanting to participate into it.. Just let em do their stuff.

    But since this is not a musical album, I'd surely like to invest some time in making some new textures and props. Textures being easier to make, because all you need for it to look good is a Diffuse, Specular and Normal map. The glossy map and other maps are more or less significant. To make a good prop, you'll need to make both the material for it and the prop.. or use original materials from the game that would fit.
  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    edited December 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1743399:date=Dec 11 2009, 01:54 PM:name=Triggerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Triggerman @ Dec 11 2009, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a LOT fewer people that can actually do that since they will need a Wacom-tablet, otherwise it's just going to be a recolour of existing textures or simply stock-textures found on the internet that they aren't allowed to use in the first place.
    Oh in case you haven't seen however the ideas that are already brewing for maps, check the stickied thread and try to tell me that there are few of them screenshots :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Oi. Since when do you need a tablet to create a decent texture?.. Anyway, yeah, quite right, it's a lot tougher world out there. I'm just saying that creating levels is also a whole lot tougher than playing them, which shows that minority can still be quite enough to let majority reap the rewards.

    Reality works that way too, incidentally: very few work in fields of science, agriculture or engineering, yet everyone gets a bite.

    PS: Am I hallucinating, or did UWE say something about releasing an easy-to-use UVW unwrapper?.. Other than the editor, this would certainly be the killing blow.
  • marksmarks Join Date: 2008-07-28 Member: 64720Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1743410:date=Dec 11 2009, 02:07 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Dec 11 2009, 02:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PS: Am I hallucinating, or did UWE say something about releasing an easy-to-use UVW unwrapper?.. Other than the editor, this would certainly be the killing blow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Why would anyone need to make their own uvw unwrap tools? I'm pretty sure they've been refined as much as the technology allows in the last god knows how many years that 3d apps based on the concept have been around. There comes a point where doing it automatically is just a worse choice than doing it by hand - no matter how good the technology is, it won't make great art on its own.

    Also to reiterate my previous post - it is likely to happen, but do not expect it any time soon.
  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    edited December 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1743473:date=Dec 11 2009, 10:38 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Dec 11 2009, 10:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would anyone need to make their own uvw unwrap tools?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because existing ones suck balls and are tedious as ####?

    <!--quoteo(post=1743473:date=Dec 11 2009, 10:38 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Dec 11 2009, 10:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure they've been refined as much as the technology allows in the last god knows how many years that 3d apps based on the concept have been around. There comes a point where doing it automatically is just a worse choice than doing it by hand - no matter how good the technology is, it won't make great art on its own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know it's logical to think that the current state of technology is just about closest to refined with all the things expected from it, but the very existence of Spark should suggest otherwise.

    <!--quoteo(post=1743473:date=Dec 11 2009, 10:38 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Dec 11 2009, 10:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also to reiterate my previous post - it is likely to happen, but do not expect it any time soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Where do you get your estimates from? I don't think I've seen it mentioned on Twitter myself.
  • crodecrode Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7876Members
    We now have builder.exe and compilemodel.exe

    Builder looks for something to be converted. Builder_setup.xml has info on what can be converted.

    .level copied to output directory
    .psd to .dds for models and map textures
    .material copied to output directory
    .swf flash copied to output
    .psd UserInterface to .dds
    .model_compile converted to .model using compilemodel.exe
    .fdp FMOD Designer files - converted sound files?

    It does create some file called colladamax.dle so is that 3dsmax or Max the person? hehe. I do not have 3dsmax but I use Maya, XSI and I will try some collada stuff later.
  • douchebagatrondouchebagatron Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <a href="https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/COLLADA_-_Digital_Asset_and_FX_Exchange_Schema" target="_blank">collada</a> is a 3d design program, and i do remember a tweet regarding the usage of collada.
  • crodecrode Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7876Members
    Naa its like an open source conversion program for converting to different formats. I believe 3dsmax, softimage, maya all have support for it somewhere thanks to Autodesk.
  • borgkingborgking Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69504Members
    edited December 2009
    first problem found:
    <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Building...
    2> J:\games\Natural Selection 2\ns2\models\darkwater\nature\fish01.dds
    2> Der Befehl "J:\games\Natural" ist entweder falsch geschrieben oder
    2> konnte nicht gefunden werden.<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
    Translated:
    <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->2> The command "J:\games\Natural" is either spelled wrong or
    2> could not be found.<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

    So no space in directorys, guys.

    Also couldn't import from XSI(Mod Tool) yet.
  • RhodriRhodri Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17575Members
    I'm really waiting for the ability to import our own models and textures. I want to use making a NS2 map as one of my major projects for my final year at uni, but to do that I'll need to be able to import my own props. It's on the back burner for now, I'll have to wait and see. Also a more intuative unwraper would be a god-send if they have done one. Roadkill's great when it works but does like to bug out and not select any loops a lot for me. I'd say unwrapping is right up there with rigging for me in tidious jobs I'd rather not be doing.
  • noisymonknoisymonk Join Date: 2009-09-04 Member: 68694Members
    edited December 2009
    I don't know about Maya or Softimage, but Max (2008 and up - possibly lower, not sure though) comes with a Collada (.DAE) Exporter. And if I'm not mistaken, 'colladamax.dle' is the 3DS Max plugin that allows you to Export to .DAE

    If I had to guess, I'd assume that you'd export your models to *.DAE from Max/Maya/Soft/etc.. and then use the Builder to convert that file into UWE .model format. Purely a guess though - I'm sure we'll get more information on it soon, they've been oddly quiet on the topic so far..

    Also, while it is possible that they are creating their own Unwrap Tools, I would guess that's not the case. It would simply be too time consuming to create an extensive and 'easy-to-use' tool that is already built into every 3D Modeling package out there - they have more important things to be doing than that ;) Although Unwrapping can be tedious and difficult, it's a key ability for any 3D artist.

    Oh and.. Hi, first post. :)
  • ArkArk Join Date: 2009-08-15 Member: 68489Members
    edited December 2009
    How exactly do we setup the builder for models? I've export a few .dae files to try, but the builder seems to skip the files.
  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1743542:date=Dec 12 2009, 02:26 AM:name=borgking)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borgking @ Dec 12 2009, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So no space in directorys, guys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Did you try encoding the space? %20 is the hex encode

    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Ark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ark)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How exactly do we setup the builder for models? I've export a few .dae files to try, but the builder seems to skip the files.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The builder looks for a file in your source directory with the file type convention *.model_compile.

    My guess is that it's a XML file similar to the .material files but I can't find an example so have no idea what parameters are. The line in the builder_setup is 73, here:

    <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--><command>"${builder_dir}\compilemodel" -material_src "${src_dir}\modelsrc" -material_dst "models" "${src_dir}\modelsrc\%1.model_compile" "${dst_dir}\models\%1.model"</command><!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1743572:date=Dec 12 2009, 06:28 PM:name=Ark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ark @ Dec 12 2009, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How exactly do we setup the builder for models? I've export a few .dae files to try, but the builder seems to skip the files.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The builder doesn't seem to be functioning yet, and we have no documentation on it. But it's coming soon.
  • borgkingborgking Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69504Members
    edited December 2009
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you try encoding the space? %20 is the hex encode<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yup, but didn't work.
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How exactly do we setup the builder for models? I've export a few .dae files to try, but the builder seems to skip the files.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    First of all, you have to make the general settings with file->settings. If there is only the build option you have to reload the basic setting with file->load setting.
    All settings should be self explaining.
    The secound thing you have to know is, that the builder only take some filetypes form special folders.
    So make sure all your model files are in the "modelsrc" folder or any subdirectory and your textures are in the "materialsrc" folder, or they will be skipped.
    Modeltextures have to be in the "modelsrc" directory.
    I don't know exactly, but the .model_compile format seems to be some text data with sourcefiles and stuff like valves .qc files, but I don't know, since I didn't get the modelcompile running any way, neither .dae,.obj,.exp,.smd,to .model_compile renamed .dae nor based on the material-language self tried .model_compile did work.(to try some of the formats I've changed the builder_setup)
    So, UWE, please tell us how it works!
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    No official word on this yet? My pre-order decision is kind of resting on being able to import custom models, I have no interest in building "lego" style maps with premade parts.
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1743724:date=Dec 14 2009, 02:25 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Dec 14 2009, 02:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No official word on this yet? My pre-order decision is kind of resting on being able to import custom models, I have no interest in building "lego" style maps with premade parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You will be able to import custom assets sooner or later. We want NS2 to be as moddable as possible!
  • BiglinesBiglines Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24094Members, Constellation
    edited December 2009
    if it's collada 1.4 they're using, the very good free open source modeling program blender (although it takes a few min to get used to the interface, it works much faster than max) exports that directly (no need to download studio max from some shady site :P)
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1743248:date=Dec 10 2009, 09:47 AM:name=BlueOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlueOne @ Dec 10 2009, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I was wondering, when will we have the pleasure to import custom models in the editor ? Is it planned to release theses tools ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=1743747:date=Dec 14 2009, 08:42 AM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Dec 14 2009, 08:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You will be able to import custom assets sooner or later. We want NS2 to be as moddable as possible!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So thats sort of "half" of an official word on this, I guess.
  • doesephdoeseph Join Date: 2009-11-22 Member: 69467Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    edited December 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1743494:date=Dec 11 2009, 05:02 PM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Dec 11 2009, 05:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because existing ones suck balls and are tedious as ####?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Maya and Max are very similar when it comes to UVW Mapping, and if you understand the basics of how to go about unwrapping certain objects (and using the unwrap presets wisely) it doesn't take long to do a UV map, especially environment art. Textures (good ones, anyway) take much longer, as does the model itself (especially if you're baking your normals from a high-poly to a low-poly) usually.
  • zexzex Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
    I prefer Blender's unwrapping to Max and Maya because it is integrated with the 3d viewport. Fortunately there's a Max plugin which emulates blender's LSCM-style Uv unwrapping, which i rely on for complex objects in Max.

    Organic objects are pretty simple in any program tbh, the real pain-in-the-ass is hard-surface models which don't allow for any texture distortion or streching.
  • spacedanielspacedaniel Join Date: 2009-11-11 Member: 69348Members
    And to boost, Blender 2.5 with the new UI is on the way (using the alpha now and it's sweeeet).
  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1743821:date=Dec 15 2009, 12:48 AM:name=doeseph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (doeseph @ Dec 15 2009, 12:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>I need to learn some manners.</b> Maya and Max are very similar when it comes to UVW Mapping, and if you understand the basics of how to go about unwrapping certain objects (and using the unwrap presets wisely) it doesn't take long to do a UV map, especially environment art. Textures (good ones, anyway) take much longer, as does the model itself (especially if you're baking your normals from a high-poly to a low-poly) usually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    In my experience it's the exact opposite, solely because unwrapping is so bloody boring. Then again, I'm no expert. If you think UVW is simple, I'm sure you're also a valuable employee...
  • BiglinesBiglines Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24094Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1743866:date=Dec 15 2009, 04:44 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Dec 15 2009, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my experience it's the exact opposite, solely because unwrapping is so bloody boring. Then again, I'm no expert. If you think UVW is simple, I'm sure you're also a valuable employee...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I hate UVW in max, but using the different tools in blender work very nice (for simple geometry it's autounwrap is usually perfect, and with more advanced it's just a question of minor adjustments)
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