<!--quoteo(post=1753915:date=Feb 18 2010, 10:04 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 18 2010, 10:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It still needs to be simple, if it's all glitzy, all singing all dancing and looks like another wall. You'll confuse the crap out of the focus of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesn't need to be extremely detailed, just as long as the room doesn't look like a box.
Make the Ceiling a bit higher, Add in columbs to the side walls that match the depth of the lockers and place about 6+ of them between columbs. Extrude the center of the celing uin the middle by about 16 inches leaving a bevel round the outside and add spot lights above the lockers.
WiP Ceveness.. Still playing with the lighting am not sure about it.
<!--quoteo(post=1753989:date=Feb 19 2010, 04:11 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Feb 19 2010, 04:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753989"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make the Ceiling a bit higher, Add in columbs to the side walls that match the depth of the lockers and place about 6+ of them between columbs. Extrude the center of the celing uin the middle by about 16 inches leaving a bevel round the outside and add spot lights above the lockers.
WiP Ceveness.. Still playing with the lighting am not sure about it.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
@Skyforger...
It's always good to make something believable and realistic... best way to make it interesting though is to expose the supports/framework. A room that large surely has headers and support support columns, rafters.... so make them exposed. Try a border on the floor around the lockers and room, maybe a raised concrete base around the lockers.. Its little things like that that keep it in the realm of real but make it interesting.
That's far from empty. I'd say what's letting it down the most is the lighting. I've seen a lot of screenshots from people using the editor and they always struggle with the lighting, in my eyes. At the moment it looks too boring compared to the geometry. There's some bright white washing it out and then some wishy washy yellow. I'd tone down the white, never ever use 255,255,255 for white lights as it's just too bright. That corridor would look much better then. Even a secondary colour there would work. And for the wishy washy room, increase the saturation so they don't look so washed out.
<!--quoteo(post=1753881:date=Feb 18 2010, 06:22 PM:name=Skyforger2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skyforger2 @ Feb 18 2010, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i repost my pictures. ceiling looks a bit empty but i aim more for realism.
Extremely boring. Looks like a mockup of a level but not quite. :/ Break up the walls, floor and ceiling. Add vent or something. Have some of "floor boards" laying around and some piper underneath them. The possibilites are endless.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2010
thanks, dux... getting the lighting correct deffinately is a different challenge. Last editor I worked with was Hammer which I had set up the lights.rad about 10 years ago so its taking a lil bit to get back into it.
is this more along the lines of what u were talkin about? <img src="http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6661/abc3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It's better, although I'd do something to make the shadows more prominent and stand out more so. Spotlight trickery from your sources? It can be hard to pull off, once you do though, it's awesome.
Yeah that appears better but it looks as if the ceiling lights are giving off no illumination at all, the floor beneath them is dark. Put a spotlight under them to brighten the floor if you haven't and reduce the intensity and radius of the lights you have on the side of the walls.
You can also just place the omni lower sometimes. As long as it comes from above the user it doesn't matter all that much whether it comes from the light precisely.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
well I'm not used to using spots and omnis on the same source, I'm toying around with it now and it does seem to give some nicer effects. There should just be a light thats a combination of an omni and spot, would make it easier to work with.
<!--quoteo(post=1754044:date=Feb 19 2010, 05:00 PM:name=ssjyoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssjyoda @ Feb 19 2010, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well I'm not used to using spots and omnis on the same source, I'm toying around with it now and it does seem to give some nicer effects. There should just be a light thats a combination of an omni and spot, would make it easier to work with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Omni and spot are two separate lights, therefore you would not have a single light entity.
Besides there are very few times when you would actually want to put them in the same place or have the same settings, you need different light values for each, one requires an orientation, they both need different falloffs, I would sometimes use different colours, the omni is mostly to give ambient light so it might not need shadows and should probably be further from the light source then the spotlight.
Basically there shouldn't be a combined entity because you are using two lights.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
I meant more like a spot light with the origin also acting like an omni. Still being able to adjust each on the same properties window. Or a way to link them up to work in junction, just a thought. I just don't like the cluttered look of having light entities all over the place.
The multiple edit windows = Photoshop edit so you can see the basic settings for the lights I put in. You see how they have different intensities, 2 cast no shadows. The only one casting shadow is the spot, the other light type is bad for casting shadows with, It is very extremely hurtfull to frame rates so at the moment, spot lights are the only safest things to have casting shadows at the moment.
Create 2 new layers, one for Spot lights and one for Omni Lights. Select a light and tick the box in the layer, click the eye to hide the light. I say 2 Groups because sometimes one gets in the way of editing another so you can hide the light thats stopping you for getting to the spot light behind it. You will find this hapen often.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
I can't put my finger on it, doesn't pop as much as the other screens... I guess to say, it feels a lil generic/stock as opposed to some of the other stuff you've done that really stood out.
I wouldn't even use exact proportions, and at times have been known to use 6 or so spots coming from a source to get the desired effect. Although yeah, that's the basic jist of it but remember, you don't see you light entity source in game so you just have to make it look correct to the player, not to the source model.
<!--quoteo(post=1754277:date=Feb 20 2010, 02:18 PM:name=ssjyoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssjyoda @ Feb 20 2010, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't put my finger on it, doesn't pop as much as the other screens... I guess to say, it feels a lil generic/stock as opposed to some of the other stuff you've done that really stood out.
my 2 cents anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I feel that too, a bit too generic maybe. I might try to make it like it was damaged (like some of my other rooms)
<!--quoteo(post=1754282:date=Feb 20 2010, 03:09 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Feb 20 2010, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754282"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's all the same colour, but after you add the details it'll probably be a lot better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's true too, I'll try to add some colors, it feels bland.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
I think the one floor texture its too white, no shadows on it at all. break that up.. and the rafters/beams seem a little too low. maybe some variation in the hight could help.
<!--quoteo(post=1753917:date=Feb 18 2010, 09:11 PM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Feb 18 2010, 09:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753917"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I realise it's not easy at this point to know precisely what to aim for when it comes to the look and feel of an official map, since you've only seen a few glimpses so far.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to beg but to question, is there not room for a bare bones version of the game for the more serious Spark editor user, just so they can make sure things work this early on? If serious input from community designers is wanted this could be the sort of way to get a quicker and more solid version of levels up to standard.
First of all, your pics always have great lighting and atmosphere, which I really appreciate.
Second, in the lower pic the transition from the lower floor immediately around the resnode up to the large cement tiled floor looks slightly strange. I think its somewhat counterintuitive to go from a lower metal type floor to a raised cement-look. I think in normal life we are used to seeing cement as the base of a structure and then seeing other structures built on that. Something about the large cement tiles bug me there, and that is my best guess as to why.
Here's an update on the room, a lot of little changes here and there from the advices you guys gave me. Thanks all for the ideas and good criticism. I was short-inspired at some point I guess. This is getting better now I think.
Comments
Doesn't need to be extremely detailed, just as long as the room doesn't look like a box.
Extrude the center of the celing uin the middle by about 16 inches leaving a bevel round the outside and add spot lights above the lockers.
WiP Ceveness.. Still playing with the lighting am not sure about it.
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/ns2_map08.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Extrude the center of the celing uin the middle by about 16 inches leaving a bevel round the outside and add spot lights above the lockers.
WiP Ceveness.. Still playing with the lighting am not sure about it.
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/ns2_map08.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Looking AWESOME Barlow. I'm excited to start working with rock textures and props coming up here after I finish this room. Yours is looking stellar.
It's always good to make something believable and realistic... best way to make it interesting though is to expose the supports/framework. A room that large surely has headers and support support columns, rafters.... so make them exposed. Try a border on the floor around the lockers and room, maybe a raised concrete base around the lockers.. Its little things like that that keep it in the realm of real but make it interesting.
<img src="http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5771/abcnb.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3267/abc1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1388/abc2p.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://img59.imageshack.us/i/staffroom2.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2058/staffroom2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://img535.imageshack.us/i/staffroom.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2748/staffroom.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Extremely boring.
Looks like a mockup of a level but not quite. :/
Break up the walls, floor and ceiling. Add vent or something. Have some of "floor boards" laying around and some piper underneath them. The possibilites are endless.
And is that curtains over the window?
is this more along the lines of what u were talkin about?
<img src="http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6661/abc3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/lights.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
how do u have multiple lights in the edit window though? I'm tryin and its not workin.
Omni and spot are two separate lights, therefore you would not have a single light entity.
Besides there are very few times when you would actually want to put them in the same place or have the same settings, you need different light values for each, one requires an orientation, they both need different falloffs, I would sometimes use different colours, the omni is mostly to give ambient light so it might not need shadows and should probably be further from the light source then the spotlight.
Basically there shouldn't be a combined entity because you are using two lights.
You see how they have different intensities, 2 cast no shadows. The only one casting shadow is the spot, the other light type is bad for casting shadows with, It is very extremely hurtfull to frame rates so at the moment, spot lights are the only safest things to have casting shadows at the moment.
Create 2 new layers, one for Spot lights and one for Omni Lights. Select a light and tick the box in the layer, click the eye to hide the light.
I say 2 Groups because sometimes one gets in the way of editing another so you can hide the light thats stopping you for getting to the spot light behind it. You will find this hapen often.
<img src="http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5623/nsq55.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3346/nsq56.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Any criticism?
my 2 cents anyway.
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/lights.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't even use exact proportions, and at times have been known to use 6 or so spots coming from a source to get the desired effect. Although yeah, that's the basic jist of it but remember, you don't see you light entity source in game so you just have to make it look correct to the player, not to the source model.
my 2 cents anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I feel that too, a bit too generic maybe. I might try to make it like it was damaged (like some of my other rooms)
<!--quoteo(post=1754282:date=Feb 20 2010, 03:09 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Feb 20 2010, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754282"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's all the same colour, but after you add the details it'll probably be a lot better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's true too, I'll try to add some colors, it feels bland.
Thanks for the critics guys.
and the rafters/beams seem a little too low. maybe some variation in the hight could help.
Not to beg but to question, is there not room for a bare bones version of the game for the more serious Spark editor user, just so they can make sure things work this early on? If serious input from community designers is wanted this could be the sort of way to get a quicker and more solid version of levels up to standard.
First of all, your pics always have great lighting and atmosphere, which I really appreciate.
Second, in the lower pic the transition from the lower floor immediately around the resnode up to the large cement tiled floor looks slightly strange. I think its somewhat counterintuitive to go from a lower metal type floor to a raised cement-look. I think in normal life we are used to seeing cement as the base of a structure and then seeing other structures built on that. Something about the large cement tiles bug me there, and that is my best guess as to why.
Keep up the killing work, man.
<img src="http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1368/nsq57.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />