Mapping community
Bricksolid
Join Date: 2009-10-02 Member: 68929Members
Join Date: 2009-10-02 Member: 68929Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I was thinking about starting a mapping community for ns2</div>Hello,
I was thinking about starting a mapping community for ns2. It will basically be a place where mappers can come and talk about mapping. Ask for help, show off their maps and setup up playtest. I am making this post to see if anyone is interested in this community. Right now nothing is setup, but if I get people interested I will make a website, forums and have a game server for testing maps and such when the game is released.
I was thinking about starting a mapping community for ns2. It will basically be a place where mappers can come and talk about mapping. Ask for help, show off their maps and setup up playtest. I am making this post to see if anyone is interested in this community. Right now nothing is setup, but if I get people interested I will make a website, forums and have a game server for testing maps and such when the game is released.
Comments
I was thinking about starting a mapping community for ns2. It will basically be a place where mappers can come and talk about mapping. Ask for help, show off their maps and setup up playtest. I am making this post to see if anyone is interested in this community. Right now nothing is setup, but if I get people interested I will make a website, forums and have a game server for testing maps and such when the game is released.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that these forums already accomplish most of your goals... But then again, these forums may enter their own version of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September" target="_blank">eternal september</a> when the game ships, so mappers may need a new place to congregate.
I especially like your idea if you really do help mappers organize playtests. That seems to be one of the biggest challenges for mappers, and also one key element that differentiates a good map from a bad map. Multiple iterations and playtests certainly make for a better playing map.
Hehe
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showforum=4" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...php?showforum=4</a>
Moving away the mapping community elsewhere the moment the tool comes out could just make it harder for UWE.
But what mappers would really love is to have a dedicated server for testing maps and such. That would be great for the mapping community!
Just stick around and wait for things to happen.
Having a server dedicated to playtesting maps is definitely a good idea.
3rd-party file hosting and resources can be done by other sites, but I always liked the way the mapping community worked for NS1. A dedicated server would be great, but I wouldn't blame the devs for leaving this up to the community.
In the wiki you can find all the info and in the forum you can solve your doubts, which can then be added to the wiki.
This way you have a central place where to go.
What is needed is 3 sections, How to make maps, Work in progress and Finished. Same with mods.
Why having it here? The UWE team can check on the topics and help the community in a fast way, and then we can add all this on the wiki for future reference.
I wrote "how to make maps" but I mean a mapping section divided in 3 parts, one general where everything about mapping take place (a detailed section about 'how to' will be in the wiki), a "work in progress" section so you can show your work and get some attention, specially if you need help testing, and finally the "finished" section where you move the work in progress threads when they are done.
If possible, we need community members to test those maps before they go in finished section, this way you make sure are really finished and that meet a basic quality criteria (to be determined).
Is just an idea.
sorry, wrong thread, how the hell I managed that I don't know.
Splitting up the forums <a href="http://community.dawnofwar2.com/forums/world-builder-and-modding" target="_blank">like how Relic have done</a> for <i>Dawn of War 2</i> actually makes it more of a chore to stay updated with all the latest topics.
I would propose the following forum structure:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Natural Selection 2 - Creation Forums</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
¬ FORUM: <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>NS2 Level Design</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
----¬ LINK: <b>NS2 Wiki</b> ('Level Design' section)
----¬ FORUM: <b>Help and Troubleshooting</b>
--------¬ STICKY: Frequently Asked Questions
----¬ FORUM: <b>Level Creation</b>
--------¬ LINK: <b>NS2 Map Requirements</b> (link to 'NS2 Map Requirements' section of the NS2 Wiki)
--------¬ STICKY: Release Thread
--------¬ STICKY: The 'Post Your Screenshots' thread
--------¬ STICKY: Useful Links
This setup is based on my experiences with the NS Mapping Forum, the <i>Dawn of War 2</i> World Creation Forum and also running a set of forums that include a mapping forum. I've found that the format in NS2 was close to being perfect: all the latest work that people wanted to share was in one thread, all the questions were in a subforum and (as a later improvement) all the new releases were in a single 'no-discussion' thread. In addition to this, each map had a single thread or one thread per major release (I personally preferred the single thread, so you could see the whole evolution of a project). You could change the name of the thread to indicate the progress of the map project (see below).
One improvement I would suggest is that instead of text prefixes such as [WIP], [REL], [B1.5], etc., the forum has some simple custom thread icons that can be changed to indicate the state of progress. E.g. an 'α' (alpha) icon would indicate projects in the early planning and basic creation phase, a 'β' (beta) icon would indicate a project in the bloackout phase and ready for basic testing, a bronze trophy icon would indicate a first release, a silver trophy icon would indicate an improved release and a gold trophy icon would indicate a final release. If there were a way of filtering the forum to display by icon, even better.
As an aside, the NS2 Wiki could handle stuff like articles and discussions on design principles, as well as keeping tabs on what the required componants of an NS2 map are. If there is to be a wiki (and there almost certainly will be judging by how easy it is for the community to keep a wiki moderated and up-to-date), it makes so much more sense to keep that as a centralised source of officially endorsed and current information, as opposed to having one set of info on the wiki and another on the forums, and having to update both resources every time something about the game changes. Also with a wiki you don't need to be an admin to update information, if it is incorrect it will be corrected by the community.
It's from where I borrow the idea to separate the wip and finished things and separated the maps and mods. This gives you a more ordered forum and you can track more easily a finished map/mod. Specially if there are some bugs to report after the final release.
And of course, an sticky thread with the list of all the finished map/mod (respectively) is a good thing to have, unless we can have a repository within UWE's site.
In the wiki (if you don't noticed it, is there up and running) should only be official info about all the aspects related to the development and will be regularly updated with new info extracted from the questions that people have and is answered here in the forum. There is always something left behind that needs clarification. The wiki currently have no info related to this because there is no info about.
So, based on your forum design:
Natural Selection 2 - Creation Forums (main section)
¬ Sub-Section: NS2 Level Design
----¬ LINK: NS2 Wiki ('Level Design' section)
----¬ FORUM: Basic
--------¬ STICKY: Frequently Asked Questions
--------¬ STICKY: Useful links
----¬ FORUM: Advanced
--------¬ STICKY: Frequently Asked Questions
--------¬ STICKY: Useful links
----¬ FORUM: Feedback & Support Forum
¬ Sub-Section: Level Creation
----¬ LINK: NS2 Map Requirements (link to 'NS2 Map Requirements' section of the NS2 Wiki)
----¬ FORUM: Work in Progress
----¬ FORUM: Release Thread
--------¬ STICKY: Released List
¬ Sub-Section: Mod Creation
----¬ LINK: NS2 Mod Requirements (link to 'NS2 Mod Requirements' section of the NS2 Wiki)
----¬ FORUM: Work in Progress
----¬ FORUM: Release Thread
--------¬ STICKY: Released List
Something like that.
And by the way, the forum needs an upgrade. ;)
There's no need for a "basic" and "advanced" forum. Why you would include this I don't know because it just generates clutter and inter-forum thread exchanges.
You don't need a forum for work in progress and released maps. Mapcore is the only place I can think that needs this because they cover a huge amount of games, however NS forums for NS so it makes sense to have one collaborative forum. That way you can have your own thread within that forum, post to the post your screenshots thread if you wish and as Crispy suggested the addition of a "released maps" thread that sounds pretty good. With someone around to constantly update the first post and add links would be nice while you tag yours underneath in a post.
Forums need an upgrade? Probably, but it works. They're also intricately coded in to the site with complexities in order to allow the constellation programme and some other things the team have done, which makes it a lot lot harder to upgrade.
I prefer Crispy's setup. Its nice and easy and he's got the essential 'post your screenshot thread' :p (which is still a great thread to go,in the old ns section, even through it seams to me part of it is missing, and lots of attached images arn't there anymore...) .
As Thaldarin points out too it's pretty much how the old forum worked and it worked great. Basically everything is work in progress till it is released so there's no need for two separate forums, releases being a rare occasion :p. Level design and level creation is pretty much the same thing, such as basic and advanced (a basic question has an advanced answer ).
The old ns mapping section used to be just one forum and with time it evolved. Some threads became stickies as everyone acknowledged their usefulness and at one point it seamed like we needed a subforum to have questions relating to help and troubleshooting in the same place so people wouldn't ask the same questions over and over again. What i'm trying to say is what was needed was added, so there wasn't loads of unrelated subcategories just for the sake of subcategories. I see a lot of forums around with empty and useless subcategories because of top>down management frenzy.
On another subject i think it would be nice if UWE supported custom maps. Like an official unofficial maps page on their site for maps they regard as top quality and worth having but not part of the original package. I understand there just can't be the all maps in the official package, as there's always standards and requisites, but there was a handful of really nice custom maps that would of benefited from an official recognition for ns1 and i imagine the same for ns2.
I like the idea of having another website for NS2 mapping. It would lift some weight from NS2 dev team. And if NS2 devs would want to give new mappers some feedback, they could simply get administrator accounts from host.
Good example for outside test site is <a href="http://tf2maps.net/" target="_blank">Team Fortress 2 maps</a> which hosts 4 gamedays in a week. Althought this works because TF2 doesn't have proper forums.
The devs never felt obliged to answer the threads in the ns1 mapping section. It was happily maintaining itself by the people. And if the devs wanted to big up a work they did.
Edit: a little bit of Zen philosophy: the best way to teach someone is to let him learn by himself.
Why a Basic and Advanced forum? The people that is advanced don't need to see those Thaldarin questions over and over. So, for the new guys you have a basic forum, where they will find the how to questions about mapping, and where they can start learning about the engine and the tools.
On the Advanced forum you will have things such as Mod development, and not only adding a few Thaldarin things, I mean a total conversion which involves more advanced things than a simple map.
Why a WIP and a Released forum? All the players that came to see what is being developed and what is already done don't have to think too much about it, they just go to place they know they can find what they are looking for and there is no need to dig into one messy forum. The add your screenshot will be in each thread, and every thread will be a separated project. Every map and mod developer can have a faster feedback on their work.
Is just to keep an order in the forum. And it's a lot more simple this way.
But probably I am thinking on doing something too much professional.
You sure as hell can't get away with it at work. :S
But maybe combine "Basic" and "Advanced", since all topics going "How can i brush floor plz?" when it's covered in three chapters on the wiki should be shot down on sight, which just leaves new code, scripts and texture acquisition and collaboration. And once it's been made, it shouldn't really get asked for twice.
Mods however can go haywire. Like LittleBigPlanet, the creative possibilities might blow minds too much. :P
Also, add a sticky thread that links to all complete sources in the forums, and you won't have to mind too much if they sink off the first page. (Mini-)Guides etc should be requested to be put on the wiki, to make it easier to refine e.g. how to create "water" physics or something.
EDIT: Actually screw it, just go haywire with the wiki. Should be easier, especially when you realise that it's search engine is separate from all the several years worth of fluff on this forum.
yup yup! I think a complete wiki with accumulated information over time would be much better than a teaching forum. If a good new question is brought up in the help and troubleshooting, then just add the info to the wiki. If a question that comes up but is addressed in the wiki well you know...
Forum members aren't there to teach how to map. We help each other addressing issues, but no one can teach you how to map. I kind of think if you can't teach yourself, no one is going to teach you for you. If everyone has the same knowledge whats the point of being an individual?