ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1699675:date=Feb 6 2009, 08:24 PM:name=grepdashv)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(grepdashv @ Feb 6 2009, 08:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For the Viewer, you might want to add hotkeys for all of the menu options that you were toggling on and off in the video. It seems like a lot of wasted mouse movement to do that much menu surfing. Also, you could add very small indicators for each of those options so that the menu doesn't need to be pulled down in order to see which options are on/off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the design people kicking in grep. All the way though I was thinking 'Max, what are you doing? CLICKING? <i>PHILISTINE!</i>' <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> That said, it's really impressive being able to simply look at assets like that, especially things that have yet to be optimised.
Max - How long are you looking at on average to do the conversion? Are there any nasty gotchas those artists & modellers need to watch out for that you're already aware of?
I thought the WYSIWYG aspect was very impressive. I was wondering if you could comment on what the development environment for the tools were. Such as was it made with C++\C# or OpenGL\DirectX?
Also, good luck with the motion capture. Motion Builder sure is a very tricky program.
<!--quoteo(post=1699719:date=Feb 7 2009, 03:43 AM:name=exoity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(exoity @ Feb 7 2009, 03:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought the WYSIWYG aspect was very impressive. I was wondering if you could comment on what the development environment for the tools were. Such as was it made with C++\C# or OpenGL\DirectX?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last I heard, these tools are being done in C++/wxWidgets. NS2 at the very least supports OpenGL, but I don't remember about DirectX (I'd guess it does).
<!--quoteo(post=1699699:date=Feb 7 2009, 06:48 AM:name=Kassinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kassinger @ Feb 7 2009, 06:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Very neat. Best quote from vid: <!--QuoteBegin-Max+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here I loaded up everyone's favorite model, the resource tower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Haha yes. I agree. I laughed aloud at that.
The Viewer took maybe about a week. It's not very much code. It's only about 3,500 lines of code and is basically just putting a UI on the functionality of the engine. The hot loading, PSD support, animation blending etc. are all part of the engine. The builder took a bit longer, maybe two weeks. There's a lot more to it then I was able to show in this video (it was already dry enough!).
Motion capture usually is expensive, but we know a guy that knows a guy... We'll see how it works out. When we do it we'll definitely have the video camera rolling for a blog update.
All of our tools use C++ with wxWidgets and our engine. Right now the graphics in the engine are DirectX 9, although it's abstracted away from the main code so an OpenGL implementation is a possibility. The UI for the Viewer, the Builder and the Editor are all platform independent, but parts of the engine are currently non-portable.
<!--quoteo(post=1699704:date=Feb 6 2009, 11:52 PM:name=Zeno)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zeno @ Feb 6 2009, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder whether the alien animations will be motion captured, too.... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fade.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::fade::" border="0" alt="fade.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, we've got an Onos corralled out back, and we are planning on sticking Ping Pong balls all over him and recording his movements. Should save us tons of animation time, but we may lose an artist or two in the process.
As Max mentioned we know a guy who knows a guy, so we may MoCap some stuff just for the marine animations. It wouldn't necessarily be considered if we had animators on tap, but to get all the alien, structures, and weapon animations done for the game is not going to be easy considering we don't have a fulltime animator on our team, so anything that can potentially save time and money on the animation side of things is worth pursuing.
Our fall back plan, if the MoCap doesn't pan out, is to just have Max animate all the marines himself. You saw a taste of how sweet that would look from the model viewer video.
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1699735:date=Feb 7 2009, 12:42 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 7 2009, 12:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yup, we've got an Onos corralled out back, and we are planning on sticking Ping Pong balls all over him and recording his movements. Should save us tons of animation time, but we may lose an artist or two in the process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1699735:date=Feb 7 2009, 07:42 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 7 2009, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yup, we've got an Onos corralled out back, and we are planning on sticking Ping Pong balls all over him and recording his movements. Should save us tons of animation time, but we may lose an artist or two in the process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's looking good, I can't wait to get my grubby little hands on those.
It's good to see a videocast with a bit of technical information. Sometimes I think that Max is the unsung hero of the NS2 team, good job on getting everything working. If you ever need a fan club, let me be in it!
I have a friend who does screen captures once in a while, usually in horribly good quality. If the lag bothers you, you could try capturing to a disk that is not used for swapping. If you don't have any spare disks cluttering up your office, it might help just to have windows use a USB stick for swapping (The odd "speed up my pc" option if I am not mistaken). I'm just sharing ideas here, haven't tried it myself, feel free to tell me how wrong I am.
I think I remember someone mentioning (forum post, possibly even a video/podcast) that you guys are reconsidering the whole NS2TR strategy. By now, you have most of the tools built, and a (somewhat) working engine. If you are going for a degree of finished similar to the NSTR, I would estimate that you are getting there pretty soon. Naturally, I am worried. KFS recently joined the team, and judging by the twitter he's been doing, he is working on the refinery map. I am worried that you decide to skip the NS2TR, and do all your maps in house. You don't have to comment, of course, but I would like you to kill my vicious worries if you can, please.
(I can't for the love of monkey find "reconsidering NS2TR strategy" anywhere, so I might have just made that up. KFS twitter is <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/status/1073304109" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/status/1086228062" target="_blank">here</a>, and <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/status/1100160969" target="_blank">here</a>, to name a few)
but one thing concerns me. the female run + look animation, it looks to straight, as if she had a stick showed in her anus. for example, look at the hl2 combine soldier animation, they look ready to fight, they are in the knees and are in a secure posture. your female marine just looks to relaxed.. i cant imagine that animation in an combat scenario. especialy not against things like skulks.
but one thing concerns me. the female run + look animation, it looks to straight, as if she had a stick showed in her anus. for example, look at the hl2 combine soldier animation, they look ready to fight, they are in the knees and are in a secure posture. your female marine just looks to relaxed.. i cant imagine that animation in an combat scenario. especialy not against things like skulks.
just my 2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suspect the nymph is just what they're calling the spawn glowies around the hive, not an actual alien class to play.
Also... when you folks finish with the Onos motion capture, just make him into butter chicken. Those big beasts actually have some tender meats inside all that carapace. And everyone knows, Onos tastes like chicken.
Edit: when you do the mocap, don't forget to do a good prison shower scene tribute on max.
When you say "There's no dancing" in the update, I hope you don't mean in-game too? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Mo-cap a dance I say, the brief taste we got last time was so sweet I can't resist begging to see more of it.
Anyway, the modding tools looks seriously awesome, I'm sure I'll have a go playing with that sometime in the future.
OoT: Oh yeah and just wanted to say that the Twitter feed and Dropbox you mentioned before was really helpful, creating a smaller 2D game for a swedish gaming award kind of thing and the Dropbox is just great for my team. Just wanted to say my thanks ^^
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2009
I see a missed opportunity here! This modelviewer would be extremly awesome for machinima makers, if you'd only include the ability to change the background color to include the famous <!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->blue<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->green<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> screen for use with key effect!
The blending of animations and the easy to setup lighting system are already very nice, but blue/green screen stuff is a must have <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Just my 2€-ct
PS: Face Poser-ish program on the horizon as well?
PPS: I myself am brooding on a NS1 related machinima thing, which is episodical (word?) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBoknduB77w&fmt=18" target="_blank">epsiode 1 shameless plug</a> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> So it could even advance into NS2 at some point. If I continue making it or start a new one...
<!--quoteo(post=1699791:date=Feb 9 2009, 02:55 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Feb 9 2009, 02:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see a missed opportunity here! This modelviewer would be extremly awesome for machinima makers, if you'd only include the ability to change the background color to include the famous <!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->blue<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->green<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> screen for use with key effect!
The blending of animations and the easy to setup lighting system are already very nice, but blue/green screen stuff is a must have <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Just my 2€-ct<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
awesome sauce. Give us Garry's Mod for NS2! We promise not to abuse it.
<!--quoteo(post=1699732:date=Feb 7 2009, 01:17 AM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max @ Feb 7 2009, 01:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a lot more to it then I was able to show in this video (it was already dry enough!).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then there is no such thing as dry enough! I know next to nothing technical about things in the modeling area, but I would've gladly watched another ten minutes of technical jargon and hot-loading!
<!--quoteo(post=1699669:date=Feb 6 2009, 08:03 PM:name=ratclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ratclaw @ Feb 6 2009, 08:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I notice you're using vista in the podcast. I'm happy because now I know my vista computer can run it. Unlike ns1 with black huds...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just type cl_gammaramp 0
on the console and that will fix the black hud I think <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Comments
That's the design people kicking in grep. All the way though I was thinking 'Max, what are you doing? CLICKING? <i>PHILISTINE!</i>' <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> That said, it's really impressive being able to simply look at assets like that, especially things that have yet to be optimised.
Max - How long are you looking at on average to do the conversion? Are there any nasty gotchas those artists & modellers need to watch out for that you're already aware of?
Also, good luck with the motion capture. Motion Builder sure is a very tricky program.
Last I heard, these tools are being done in C++/wxWidgets. NS2 at the very least supports OpenGL, but I don't remember about DirectX (I'd guess it does).
<!--QuoteBegin-Max+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here I loaded up everyone's favorite model, the resource tower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha yes. I agree. I laughed aloud at that.
Motion capture usually is expensive, but we know a guy that knows a guy... We'll see how it works out. When we do it we'll definitely have the video camera rolling for a blog update.
All of our tools use C++ with wxWidgets and our engine. Right now the graphics in the engine are DirectX 9, although it's abstracted away from the main code so an OpenGL implementation is a possibility. The UI for the Viewer, the Builder and the Editor are all platform independent, but parts of the engine are currently non-portable.
Yup, we've got an Onos corralled out back, and we are planning on sticking Ping Pong balls all over him and recording his movements. Should save us tons of animation time, but we may lose an artist or two in the process.
As Max mentioned we know a guy who knows a guy, so we may MoCap some stuff just for the marine animations. It wouldn't necessarily be considered if we had animators on tap, but to get all the alien, structures, and weapon animations done for the game is not going to be easy considering we don't have a fulltime animator on our team, so anything that can potentially save time and money on the animation side of things is worth pursuing.
Our fall back plan, if the MoCap doesn't pan out, is to just have Max animate all the marines himself. You saw a taste of how sweet that would look from the model viewer video.
--Cory
Careful when doing the attack animations!
man, i had to laugh so hard :-)
It's good to see a videocast with a bit of technical information. Sometimes I think that Max is the unsung hero of the NS2 team, good job on getting everything working. If you ever need a fan club, let me be in it!
I have a friend who does screen captures once in a while, usually in horribly good quality. If the lag bothers you, you could try capturing to a disk that is not used for swapping. If you don't have any spare disks cluttering up your office, it might help just to have windows use a USB stick for swapping (The odd "speed up my pc" option if I am not mistaken). I'm just sharing ideas here, haven't tried it myself, feel free to tell me how wrong I am.
I think I remember someone mentioning (forum post, possibly even a video/podcast) that you guys are reconsidering the whole NS2TR strategy. By now, you have most of the tools built, and a (somewhat) working engine. If you are going for a degree of finished similar to the NSTR, I would estimate that you are getting there pretty soon. Naturally, I am worried. KFS recently joined the team, and judging by the twitter he's been doing, he is working on the refinery map. I am worried that you decide to skip the NS2TR, and do all your maps in house. You don't have to comment, of course, but I would like you to kill my vicious worries if you can, please.
(I can't for the love of monkey find "reconsidering NS2TR strategy" anywhere, so I might have just made that up. KFS twitter is <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/status/1073304109" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/status/1086228062" target="_blank">here</a>, and <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/status/1100160969" target="_blank">here</a>, to name a few)
but one thing concerns me. the female run + look animation, it looks to straight, as if she had a stick showed in her anus.
for example, look at the hl2 combine soldier animation, they look ready to fight, they are in the knees and are in a secure posture.
your female marine just looks to relaxed.. i cant imagine that animation in an combat scenario. especialy not against things like skulks.
just my 2 cents
but one thing concerns me. the female run + look animation, it looks to straight, as if she had a stick showed in her anus.
for example, look at the hl2 combine soldier animation, they look ready to fight, they are in the knees and are in a secure posture.
your female marine just looks to relaxed.. i cant imagine that animation in an combat scenario. especialy not against things like skulks.
just my 2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Animations are place holders dude.
Also... when you folks finish with the Onos motion capture, just make him into butter chicken. Those big beasts actually have some tender meats inside all that carapace. And everyone knows, Onos tastes like chicken.
Edit: when you do the mocap, don't forget to do a good prison shower scene tribute on max.
Mo-cap a dance I say, the brief taste we got last time was so sweet I can't resist begging to see more of it.
Anyway, the modding tools looks seriously awesome, I'm sure I'll have a go playing with that sometime in the future.
OoT: Oh yeah and just wanted to say that the Twitter feed and Dropbox you mentioned before was really helpful, creating a smaller 2D game for a swedish gaming award kind of thing and the Dropbox is just great for my team. Just wanted to say my thanks ^^
The blending of animations and the easy to setup lighting system are already very nice, but blue/green screen stuff is a must have <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Just my 2€-ct
PS:
Face Poser-ish program on the horizon as well?
PPS:
I myself am brooding on a NS1 related machinima thing, which is episodical (word?) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBoknduB77w&fmt=18" target="_blank">epsiode 1 shameless plug</a> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> So it could even advance into NS2 at some point. If I continue making it or start a new one...
The blending of animations and the easy to setup lighting system are already very nice, but blue/green screen stuff is a must have <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Just my 2€-ct<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
awesome sauce. Give us Garry's Mod for NS2! We promise not to abuse it.
...
I've been practicing.
But in all seriousness, it looks quite handy. Max puts the "hot" in "hot loading."
Then there is no such thing as dry enough! I know next to nothing technical about things in the modeling area, but I would've gladly watched another ten minutes of technical jargon and hot-loading!
just type cl_gammaramp 0
on the console and that will fix the black hud I think <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
RT actually looked better than I thought it would in 3D!
And I hope the female marine will look different when she moves around. She really looked a tad bit to stiff for a soldier fighting some scary aliens.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />