<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" /> Love the concept and model; I bet they'll look even better in-game!
One thing nobody's brought up is that these MASCs don't look like thy depend on a nearby turret fact like in NS and don't even have to be built in-situ, so what weakness can the aliens take advantage of? I'm sure you've got great ideas for the gameplay; just curious.
First: <b>Happy E-Birthday <i>Natural Selection</i>!</b> How old is Unknown Worlds?
Second: Happy All Hallow's Day my fellow forum goers!
Third: Regarding "clean" looks to the TSA and their equipment - it makes sense to me in a nanite constructed world, things would look almost too clean, because even minute details of objects could conceivably be looked after by nano bots.
Fourth: And I am surprised no one mentioned this with regards to the models, though it is sorta related to the clean issue brought up - please display the model as how it would look in the progress of being damaged by the Kharaa (less than 66% armor sorta thing), if the Kharaa can immobilize the MASC please show it like that and how the model looks when the MASC is rendered inoperable aka destroyed by the Kharaa. Though, in my limited knowledge, that could all be handled by the animating of the model, so that may not even be relevant to this part of it but I thought I should just bring it up just in case that needs to be considered with the original model creation.
<!--quoteo(post=1692056:date=Nov 1 2008, 03:39 PM:name=frostymoose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frostymoose @ Nov 1 2008, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem with the msac appears to be to me that there was no hipoly for the normal map, just nvidia (or other) filter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of the models being created, the MASC included, are first modeled as high poly from which the normal maps are extracted and applied to the low poly.
I forgot you guys were using normal maps - that's awesome, but I have a comment about it:
In Oblivion, the caverns a few minutes out of the start of the game looked incredibad because they overused normal maps - it was like looking at a cheap hologram, and didn't fit the feel at all. Please limit your use of normal maps to small, subtle (almost unnoticeable) textural modifications, rather than trying to emulate geometry. The treads might be a good place for them.
Also, I think the general concern about the clean look of the model is not a result of the scratches/imperfections in the textures, but rather of the <b>shiny finish</b> on the paint. A tank generally has an <b>extremely matte</b> finish, and the texture used here is moderately reflective. I would tone down the reflectivity _a lot_ and smooth out the roughness, spread the highlight size virtually as far as it will go, and darken the whiteness and specular color of the green paint especially. I don't know which of these options you have available to you, but you get the idea.
Barring my usual views on mobile siege mechanics and how they would effect NS, and any extrapolations into a game I've never played, this is an amazing podcast, and very encouraging. Thanks for the update.
Great looking models, though imo, the siege cannons are a bit large to be lumbering through a map but I suppose scaling the model down is always possible.
Loved the music. Great job with it, as it's now added to my playlist =D.
<!--quoteo(post=1692057:date=Nov 1 2008, 11:18 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 1 2008, 11:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692057"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All of the models being created, the MASC included, are first modeled as high poly from which the normal maps are extracted and applied to the low poly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when makeing models for game you to have high playable detailed to low model.
i play in a laptop so i hope that i can play with a desent settings (witch is more likey from what i have read).
I like the model concept, obviously since the devs have put enough effort in outsourcing this model, this work, they've only a 4 man dev team...you're not gonna see them make major changes. I fully support their decisions, they're gonna do mostly what they wanna do and test. (to the devs) Just splurge out your ideas, and I'd like to play/test them and then by actual experience we can see if these ideas work or not. You guys gotta realize that what we want them to focus on is functionality of the game, as once the game is actually released and in testing we can maybe change the realism or of a certain model, etc. I'd rather see this in-game/in-environment then criticize the texting/artwork at a concept/pre-rendered stage.
And regarding the clean look, IT MAKES SENSE. Especially if a nano tech/builder bot is scraping this thing together out brand new... it doesn't need to be all dirty and matte. This is new technology navigating steel hallways and ships, not trudging around in deserts and forests. And like mentioned earlier in this thread, as the MASC is attacked while deployed or while mobile it could receive damage and scratches, etc.
I think you should take some "artistic licence" towards this, and texture it in the same style as the original NS1 buildings. As it stands right now the texture is way too clean. I can understand there being no shadowing (understandable if all the lighting is going to be dynamic in-game) But there's not a spec of dirt on this thing, which makes the texture look really bland.
Love the model though. Very accurate to the concept art!
Great iteration of the MASC, it's really coming along. That being said I also feel there is room for another iteration or two on it. Others have already mentioned normal mapping, etc. Another example is that "Suck It!" could be taken off the model's texture and then reapplied as one of a set of random decals that appear in different locations on every MASC. Also, the model itself seems to sit a bit higher and narrower than I imagined it. A slightly squatter MASC might look a bit sturdier.
All in all, very happy with how things are progressing. Kinda crazy that I've been a part of this community for over 6 years now...
<!--quoteo(post=1692071:date=Nov 1 2008, 03:41 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Supernorn @ Nov 1 2008, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you should take some "artistic licence" towards this, and texture it in the same style as the original NS1 buildings. As it stands right now the texture is way too clean. I can understand there being no shadowing (understandable if all the lighting is going to be dynamic in-game) But there's not a spec of dirt on this thing, which makes the texture look really bland.
Love the model though. Very accurate to the concept art!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much this.
I guess the piece that we don't have is how much of an affect lighting will have on the model.
As it stands now it feels like the MASC would stick out like a sore thumb, however, it may look perfect ingame.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Regarding the "clean" textures. The textures actually do have a fair amount of scratches and weathering. But, please realize, we are not making Gears of War. The armor and weaponry in that game was meant to have been around for long periods of time, used in battles after battles, with no replacements. The tech in NS 2, however, is meant to be a bit newer, and less battle worn, especially in regards to the MASC, which is meant to be an experimental weapon. Also, do you really want to see mud splattered all over these machines, which primarily are being used in spaceships and space stations? It would look a little out of place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was wondering if they would get scratches and stuff from combat, like will we see some teeth marks and claw marks from skulks scratching the paint?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. In regards to the treads being too flat: There actually is an updated version of the textures where the treads have more detail, with a pattern on the treads, which breaks up the flatness. The renders shown in the post don't display that later addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wanna see that, got screenies?
Anyone who thinks that the MASC needs more scratches isn't thinking about it properly.
If you buy a car built brand new, would you expect it to have any scratches on it? If the marines build a MASC brand new, would you expect it to have any scratches on it?
<!--quoteo(post=1692088:date=Nov 1 2008, 11:25 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Nov 1 2008, 11:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess the piece that we don't have is how much of an affect lighting will have on the model.
As it stands now it feels like the MASC would stick out like a sore thumb, however, it may look perfect ingame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I think the lack of a light-source in the actual render shots of the model is what is bugging me the most. I think under some dynamic lighting it would look really nice.
Perhaps a future render could confirm this? Pretty please? with a cherry on top? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
We should all respect each others criticism because it only moves the game to a higher level. Even if it means offering criticism for texturing to a model, its only because the community wants the game to be as perfect as possible. And its a good thing the producers will take this sorta thing into consideration.
Just a note that, if a few people do recognise something they see that doesn't really feel right for them, it probbaly means that something isn't as good as it probbaly could be. And if there is reasons for why it is at it appears then im sure enough the producers will offer information for that.
I do feel that there is something missing from the model, that it could probbaly be spiced up abit. And im sure enough even if a poly count restricts you from certain things, that you guys are creative enough to figure out a possibility, i mean you've gotten this far.
Well done once again, you guys are doing really well.
It's surprising how constructive the comments are on this forum, in comparison with others.. it's rather uplifting for a change!
I wouldn't be too worried about the final product, keep in mind, this is just a shot from the 3d package, not under the renderer being used for NS2, with the appropriate normal map applied, I'm sure it will look great,
Keep in mind that they won't release this until its "awesome"
<!--quoteo(post=1692107:date=Nov 2 2008, 11:13 AM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Nov 2 2008, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It might make sense but it doesn't match NS's theme. It looks like Halo.
It still looks great though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree.
Although it "technically" makes sense, it certainly looks out of place with the rest of the gritty NS theme.
<!--quoteo(post=1692089:date=Nov 1 2008, 05:28 PM:name=yoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yoda @ Nov 1 2008, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Was wondering if they would get scratches and stuff from combat, like will we see some teeth marks and claw marks from skulks scratching the paint?</b>
I wanna see that, got screenies?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bolded would suit everyone, comes out looking brandspanking new as it should since it just got built with nano-swarms etc. Skulks scratching at it and stuff shud make it smashed up abit.
serious guys you deserve it, this game rocks normaly i promote ns via word of mouth but over hte last few weeks been promoteing it hard CORE even to people who i have already promoted it too.
the models is perfectly fine, but the skin is way to clean, i mean, its on the battlefield, and aliens sure wont let it drive all the way to their hive, so at scratches, bites and dirt on it, especialy scratches. and it will be very emmersive. i mean, it isnt very good to have a siege cannon on 4"hp" look like fresh manufacted, and SUCK IT! is a cool idea, but i doubt that marines will paint it on a completely new maschine whitout any "combat exierience", and rust and wartorn would spice the model up too.
6 years eh? Dammit time went by so fast, it's gonna be like a big homecoming party to meet all the old guys from ns1 times when 2 is being released. I remember hearing about the most awesome mod ever created by the hands of mankind sometime around november 02 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Pretty sweet renderings there, love the conceptwork too. Way to go (again)
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1692139:date=Nov 2 2008, 09:54 AM:name=Blade01)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blade01 @ Nov 2 2008, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Mobile Siege Cannon is great but i dont like the tracks, i think their too flat..... by flat i mean this:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. In regards to the treads being too flat: There actually is an updated version of the textures where the treads have more detail, with a pattern on the treads, which breaks up the flatness. The renders shown in the post don't display that later addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Great models in there, I love the blue glowing tubes on the cannon.
One thing nobody's brought up is that these MASCs don't look like thy depend on a nearby turret fact like in NS and don't even have to be built in-situ, so what weakness can the aliens take advantage of? I'm sure you've got great ideas for the gameplay; just curious.
6 years heh!
I like the MASC, it's a really cool idea and it will improve the gameplay for sure.
Also, the music really rocks!
Keep it coming guys! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Second: Happy All Hallow's Day my fellow forum goers!
Third: Regarding "clean" looks to the TSA and their equipment - it makes sense to me in a nanite constructed world, things would look almost too clean, because even minute details of objects could conceivably be looked after by nano bots.
Fourth: And I am surprised no one mentioned this with regards to the models, though it is sorta related to the clean issue brought up - please display the model as how it would look in the progress of being damaged by the Kharaa (less than 66% armor sorta thing), if the Kharaa can immobilize the MASC please show it like that and how the model looks when the MASC is rendered inoperable aka destroyed by the Kharaa. Though, in my limited knowledge, that could all be handled by the animating of the model, so that may not even be relevant to this part of it but I thought I should just bring it up just in case that needs to be considered with the original model creation.
Fifth: Thank you Hypergrip!
All of the models being created, the MASC included, are first modeled as high poly from which the normal maps are extracted and applied to the low poly.
In Oblivion, the caverns a few minutes out of the start of the game looked incredibad because they overused normal maps - it was like looking at a cheap hologram, and didn't fit the feel at all. Please limit your use of normal maps to small, subtle (almost unnoticeable) textural modifications, rather than trying to emulate geometry. The treads might be a good place for them.
Also, I think the general concern about the clean look of the model is not a result of the scratches/imperfections in the textures, but rather of the <b>shiny finish</b> on the paint. A tank generally has an <b>extremely matte</b> finish, and the texture used here is moderately reflective. I would tone down the reflectivity _a lot_ and smooth out the roughness, spread the highlight size virtually as far as it will go, and darken the whiteness and specular color of the green paint especially. I don't know which of these options you have available to you, but you get the idea.
Barring my usual views on mobile siege mechanics and how they would effect NS, and any extrapolations into a game I've never played, this is an amazing podcast, and very encouraging. Thanks for the update.
Loved the music. Great job with it, as it's now added to my playlist =D.
when makeing models for game you to have high playable detailed to low model.
i play in a laptop so i hope that i can play with a desent settings (witch is more likey from what i have read).
And regarding the clean look, IT MAKES SENSE. Especially if a nano tech/builder bot is scraping this thing together out brand new... it doesn't need to be all dirty and matte. This is new technology navigating steel hallways and ships, not trudging around in deserts and forests. And like mentioned earlier in this thread, as the MASC is attacked while deployed or while mobile it could receive damage and scratches, etc.
Just my .02
Great job guy, keep working.
Love the model though. Very accurate to the concept art!
All in all, very happy with how things are progressing. Kinda crazy that I've been a part of this community for over 6 years now...
good work.
Love the model though. Very accurate to the concept art!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much this.
I guess the piece that we don't have is how much of an affect lighting will have on the model.
As it stands now it feels like the MASC would stick out like a sore thumb, however, it may look perfect ingame.
Was wondering if they would get scratches and stuff from combat, like will we see some teeth marks and claw marks from skulks scratching the paint?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. In regards to the treads being too flat: There actually is an updated version of the textures where the treads have more detail, with a pattern on the treads, which breaks up the flatness. The renders shown in the post don't display that later addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wanna see that, got screenies?
If you buy a car built brand new, would you expect it to have any scratches on it? If the marines build a MASC brand new, would you expect it to have any scratches on it?
As it stands now it feels like the MASC would stick out like a sore thumb, however, it may look perfect ingame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I think the lack of a light-source in the actual render shots of the model is what is bugging me the most. I think under some dynamic lighting it would look really nice.
Perhaps a future render could confirm this? Pretty please? with a cherry on top? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Just a note that, if a few people do recognise something they see that doesn't really feel right for them, it probbaly means that something isn't as good as it probbaly could be. And if there is reasons for why it is at it appears then im sure enough the producers will offer information for that.
I do feel that there is something missing from the model, that it could probbaly be spiced up abit. And im sure enough even if a poly count restricts you from certain things, that you guys are creative enough to figure out a possibility, i mean you've gotten this far.
Well done once again, you guys are doing really well.
I wouldn't be too worried about the final product, keep in mind, this is just a shot from the 3d package, not under the renderer being used for NS2, with the appropriate normal map applied, I'm sure it will look great,
Keep in mind that they won't release this until its "awesome"
It might make sense but it doesn't match NS's theme. It looks like Halo.
It still looks great though.
It still looks great though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree.
Although it "technically" makes sense, it certainly looks out of place with the rest of the gritty NS theme.
I wanna see that, got screenies?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bolded would suit everyone, comes out looking brandspanking new as it should since it just got built with nano-swarms etc. Skulks scratching at it and stuff shud make it smashed up abit.
serious guys you deserve it, this game rocks normaly i promote ns via word of mouth but over hte last few weeks been promoteing it hard CORE even to people who i have already promoted it too.
keep it up guys
the models is perfectly fine, but the skin is way to clean, i mean, its on the battlefield, and aliens sure wont let it drive all the way to their hive, so at scratches, bites and dirt on it, especialy scratches. and it will be very emmersive. i mean, it isnt very good to have a siege cannon on 4"hp" look like fresh manufacted, and SUCK IT! is a cool idea, but i doubt that marines will paint it on a completely new maschine whitout any "combat exierience", and rust and wartorn would spice the model up too.
just my feedback
The treads look like a texture, not a separate part of the model... meaning... the treads will be static when the thing is moving??!?!
How about showing us the animation in the next blog update? Perhaps in the engine and with an enviroment.
Pretty sweet renderings there, love the conceptwork too. Way to go (again)
<img src="http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7884/14084987am2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think they would better off if they were like this:
<img src="http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5192/99106147ip0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and besides the artwork Mobile Siege cannon has tracks like in this second picture
<img src="http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/2110/64187591nu9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7884/14084987am2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think they would better off if they were like this:
<img src="http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5192/99106147ip0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and besides the artwork Mobile Siege cannon has tracks like in this second picture
<img src="http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/2110/64187591nu9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. In regards to the treads being too flat: There actually is an updated version of the textures where the treads have more detail, with a pattern on the treads, which breaks up the flatness. The renders shown in the post don't display that later addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->