<!--quoteo(post=1692044:date=Nov 1 2008, 10:54 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Nov 1 2008, 10:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No more marines standing on top of each other to get into a vent? No skulk ladders for gorges? A true shame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're talking about bots here. No, bots won't be able to stack up to get into a vent, although that would be ridiculously cool.
I too am skeptical seeing NPC units being part of NS2. NS is a team game, I wouldn't want to see one of the teams (the marines in this case) being "seperated" by force so that the comm plays his game, the marines play their game and the interaction is reduced to a minimum... Please don't use NPC units to make up for commanders and Marines not playing well together.
I still enjoy playing on pubs, I still like hopping into the com chair on pubs. The key element to have Marines play WITH the commander is IMHO communication and intel. Most the time i experience comms to go step-by-step on a sertain "tech tree" that has developed over the last years. Besides that it's more or less dropping RTs and Meds/Ammo. The PGs are "ordered" by Marines that went to a location they think is important by themself... the comm is in a REACTING position. From my personal experience you can make most of your pub Marines work according to your strategy if you actually SHARE it with them, keep them UPDATED and help them not only by providing Meds/Ammo but also INTEL. Of course this only works if you use voice communikation... if you don't talk to your Marines, how should they follow any orders or - on a larger scale - a strategy? NS currently lacks possibilities for the commander to "communicate strategy", to share a "bigger picture" with his team. A server i used to play on until it was shut down some weeks ago had some very subtle but nice plugins that made this possible:
1.) Players can bind a button to a "+showtechs" command. It would show a short overview about the current "tech level" of the team and researching in progress. (wich lead to a lot less players asking about stuff that currently is not available like I see on most other pubs. 2.) The commander can chose to have a plugin form squads automatically (based on distance between players AFAIK). Marines get a little HUD indicator showing "squad efficiency" (points are awarded for staying within a certain radius within your teammates, killing Aliens/structures with teammates, and so on). the most efficient Team is announced at round end (And I think "award/achievements" DO promote teamplay, be it for egoistic reasons) 3.) at the beginning of the round there is a "strategie phase". Marines can't move but a player can chose to become commander and is brought to the comchair immidiently. He can then form squads (mostly by using the Auto-Squad feature described above), give waypoints and tell his team what strategy he wants to use. Aliens can vote on the chamber they want and assign themselfs a "role" that will show up on the scoreboard. The roles can be "RT", "Saving for hive", "Fade", "Lerk", "Chamber". These "roles" do not FORCE players to actually do what the signed up for (or assign themselfs to any role at all) but it makes early alien game much less of a hassle IMHO. The 30 seconds you "lose" planning at the beginning of the round speeds up early game / makes early game go more smoothly.
So... what do we (or at least I) learn from that? NS1 has great potential for teamplay but the commander lacks some tools to actually COMMAND. He's currently more of a "guarding angle" than a superior officer. Marines themself lack an appeal to subordinate to the commander and actually back his strategy. There will always be players that rambo and actually have success doing it - because of FPS skills superior to those of the Alien players. Does that help his team? Yes it does. Does this make the Marines actually FEEL like a team? I don't think so. And does this make the commander feel like he's actually "doing his part"? Also not that likely IMHO.
So Marines are getting the ability to buy their own weapons. BAD move in my oppinion - feels like an attempt to fight "grief" among marines because not everyone gets a gun. If Marines get to be more self-sufficient, make them EARN it by showing some teamplay (for example by staying with his squad, following orders, building structures, ...) If players get access to better equipment based on their FRAGS, NS2 will be just CS in Space.. or simply CO with structures (yes, i do not like Combat... so sue me).
<!--quoteo(post=1692558:date=Nov 5 2008, 10:07 PM:name=Lord Schnitzel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lord Schnitzel @ Nov 5 2008, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1692558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I too am skeptical seeing NPC units being part of NS2. NS is a team game, I wouldn't want to see one of the teams (the marines in this case) being "seperated" by force so that the comm plays his game, the marines play their game and the interaction is reduced to a minimum... Please don't use NPC units to make up for commanders and Marines not playing well together.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think there is a real way to force the marine team to play together. This suggestion is basically a last resort for a commander if his team is incompetent. (even if there is teamwork present)
The commander is just one player on the team, there are plenty of others to work together with if he doesn't want to. Dynamic squads in NS2 will make sure it works that way.
Comments
We're talking about bots here. No, bots won't be able to stack up to get into a vent, although that would be ridiculously cool.
I still enjoy playing on pubs, I still like hopping into the com chair on pubs. The key element to have Marines play WITH the commander is IMHO communication and intel.
Most the time i experience comms to go step-by-step on a sertain "tech tree" that has developed over the last years. Besides that it's more or less dropping RTs and Meds/Ammo. The PGs are "ordered" by Marines that went to a location they think is important by themself... the comm is in a REACTING position.
From my personal experience you can make most of your pub Marines work according to your strategy if you actually SHARE it with them, keep them UPDATED and help them not only by providing Meds/Ammo but also INTEL. Of course this only works if you use voice communikation... if you don't talk to your Marines, how should they follow any orders or - on a larger scale - a strategy?
NS currently lacks possibilities for the commander to "communicate strategy", to share a "bigger picture" with his team. A server i used to play on until it was shut down some weeks ago had some very subtle but nice plugins that made this possible:
1.) Players can bind a button to a "+showtechs" command. It would show a short overview about the current "tech level" of the team and researching in progress. (wich lead to a lot less players asking about stuff that currently is not available like I see on most other pubs.
2.) The commander can chose to have a plugin form squads automatically (based on distance between players AFAIK). Marines get a little HUD indicator showing "squad efficiency" (points are awarded for staying within a certain radius within your teammates, killing Aliens/structures with teammates, and so on). the most efficient Team is announced at round end (And I think "award/achievements" DO promote teamplay, be it for egoistic reasons)
3.) at the beginning of the round there is a "strategie phase". Marines can't move but a player can chose to become commander and is brought to the comchair immidiently. He can then form squads (mostly by using the Auto-Squad feature described above), give waypoints and tell his team what strategy he wants to use. Aliens can vote on the chamber they want and assign themselfs a "role" that will show up on the scoreboard. The roles can be "RT", "Saving for hive", "Fade", "Lerk", "Chamber". These "roles" do not FORCE players to actually do what the signed up for (or assign themselfs to any role at all) but it makes early alien game much less of a hassle IMHO. The 30 seconds you "lose" planning at the beginning of the round speeds up early game / makes early game go more smoothly.
So... what do we (or at least I) learn from that?
NS1 has great potential for teamplay but the commander lacks some tools to actually COMMAND. He's currently more of a "guarding angle" than a superior officer. Marines themself lack an appeal to subordinate to the commander and actually back his strategy. There will always be players that rambo and actually have success doing it - because of FPS skills superior to those of the Alien players. Does that help his team? Yes it does. Does this make the Marines actually FEEL like a team? I don't think so. And does this make the commander feel like he's actually "doing his part"? Also not that likely IMHO.
So Marines are getting the ability to buy their own weapons. BAD move in my oppinion - feels like an attempt to fight "grief" among marines because not everyone gets a gun. If Marines get to be more self-sufficient, make them EARN it by showing some teamplay (for example by staying with his squad, following orders, building structures, ...) If players get access to better equipment based on their FRAGS, NS2 will be just CS in Space.. or simply CO with structures (yes, i do not like Combat... so sue me).
I don't think there is a real way to force the marine team to play together. This suggestion is basically a last resort for a commander if his team is incompetent. (even if there is teamwork present)
The commander is just one player on the team, there are plenty of others to work together with if he doesn't want to. Dynamic squads in NS2 will make sure it works that way.