Showing and Distributing Upgrades
spellman23
NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
<div class="IPBDescription">oh, they just got Armor 1</div>So, little thought.
First, what if upgrades changed the look of the Marine/Alien model. It could be subtle, but if an observer wanted to, they could figure out why one is different from the other. For example, a Carapace Skulk might have a darker or added texture to their back, or a Marine with Motion Tracking as an eye piece or special lights on their helmet. While mostly an aesthetic change, it can also help tip other players off on what you have. Perhaps you need to realize that Onos you're following has adrenaline or celerity. Granted you might be able to tell due to the movespeed, but this would give a better reinforcement. Or it can indicate that Alien in the corner has cloaking. Or, let you know the Marines have better weapons now and you should be a little more careful.
Secondly, for Marines, it may be a little unrealistic for them to suddenly gain the upgrades. Perhaps they only gain it once they respawn or if they take a little time to say hug the Armory or some other building, maybe even a new one. If a building is made to help Marines change their loadout, this would be a perfect location to also apply the upgrades. As it is, you're spraying with a Lv0 LMG and suddenly it becomes a Lv1 LMG?
So, to summarize:<ul><li>Small visual indicators of upgrades applied</li><li>Marines should not automatically receive upgrades while they are in the field</li></ul>
Comment and criticize.
EDIT: People apparently haven't read the rest of the thread. The distribution of upgrades idea appears to be bad in the mind of most, and is thus either expanded to get from other things (like an armory/IP/comm chair in the Tech Point/etc.) so you don't have to wait for respawn, or dropped entirely.
First, what if upgrades changed the look of the Marine/Alien model. It could be subtle, but if an observer wanted to, they could figure out why one is different from the other. For example, a Carapace Skulk might have a darker or added texture to their back, or a Marine with Motion Tracking as an eye piece or special lights on their helmet. While mostly an aesthetic change, it can also help tip other players off on what you have. Perhaps you need to realize that Onos you're following has adrenaline or celerity. Granted you might be able to tell due to the movespeed, but this would give a better reinforcement. Or it can indicate that Alien in the corner has cloaking. Or, let you know the Marines have better weapons now and you should be a little more careful.
Secondly, for Marines, it may be a little unrealistic for them to suddenly gain the upgrades. Perhaps they only gain it once they respawn or if they take a little time to say hug the Armory or some other building, maybe even a new one. If a building is made to help Marines change their loadout, this would be a perfect location to also apply the upgrades. As it is, you're spraying with a Lv0 LMG and suddenly it becomes a Lv1 LMG?
So, to summarize:<ul><li>Small visual indicators of upgrades applied</li><li>Marines should not automatically receive upgrades while they are in the field</li></ul>
Comment and criticize.
EDIT: People apparently haven't read the rest of the thread. The distribution of upgrades idea appears to be bad in the mind of most, and is thus either expanded to get from other things (like an armory/IP/comm chair in the Tech Point/etc.) so you don't have to wait for respawn, or dropped entirely.
Comments
Yeah I guess it's a good idea to have ups only work on respawn... I don't know, I really like the mechanic of getting armor 1 in the field and being able to attack harder afterward.
But yeah, your idea makes sense. The graphical thing is definitely cool.
I agree though that it might be nice to have marines gain new upgrades only after respawning or at least upgrading by using the arms lab or something.
I once also posted this idea, but in combination with the upgrades costing res per spawn depending of their quality, which is now, with personal res income, even more viable. For instance a marine has to pay 1 res per 2 upgrade points, which means he pays 1 res to spawn with WU1/AU1 (or WU2/AU0) or 3 res to spawn with WU3/AU3.
This was an idea to fight the overpowered arms lab on big servers and to stop loosing marines with no res from prolonging the endgame by camping in base with WU3/AU3 and plenty IPs.
Depending on the ideas the Devs have for NS2, this might not be necessary anymore.
As for the gameplay it depends on the rest of the tech. It's nice to have some field upgrades for early map control and survival and pickup upgrades on the base for quick kamikaze pushes and such. In general the more you can variate your style of play, the better. It's really nice to be able to play one definite strat on one round and then decide to switch to a whole different approach depending on the oppositing team, the map and your team's strengts.
Visual indicators sound cool.
i love the fact to see the diffrence in marine armor and alien stuff.
I'm sorry. Apparently you misunderstood me.
I am saying they need to spawn or re-outfit in order to receive upgrades. If you're in the field and Armor 1 finishes, in NS you magically gain Armor 1. In this system, you would have to run back to base or get a re-outfit building, or simply die and respawn to gain the upgrade. It's not perfect, but a bit more realistic. Kinda like in CoH where your units have to be in your own territory to upgrade.
Or like Hand Grenades in NS
Information as to the opponents strategy is key to countering it. So, I vote YES on making information easier to recognize.
I think this topic of discussion should continue since the idea sounds great for balance and informational purposes for strategic opportunities.
Agreed. It would be cool to have a little animation, like some new armor plates sliding down the marine's neck/shoulder/chest/ etc when the upgrade completes to go along with a new look.
<!--quoteo(post=1687434:date=Sep 5 2008, 06:00 AM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Sep 5 2008, 06:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->making the marines have to pay for spawn=bad bad bad bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this should stay in competitive mode and out of default casual NS2.
It can double as a refitting station to switch out weapons and get the most recent upgrades.
Another interesting point would be diverging techs such that you customize weapons/armor, but one isn't strictly better than the other. So, hot swapping in the field using this station might actually be worth it.
It can double as a refitting station to switch out weapons and get the most recent upgrades.
Another interesting point would be diverging techs such that you customize weapons/armor, but one isn't strictly better than the other. So, hot swapping in the field using this station might actually be worth it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this notion, I have had similar thoughts in the past.
What if it was something you step into, say, stepping back into the infantry portal, you get zapped back to the "drop" ship that originally got those silly nanite powered cyborg clone marines there in the first place, then play around with the appropriate interface for switching out your gear to what the Commander has managed to convince Marine Command to be appropriated for nanite blueprint construction and then jump back out the infantry portal.
Heck, they use "beacons", portals, and gates already - why not go back the other way to kinda step into the armory?
Heck, they use "beacons", portals, and gates already - why not go back the other way to kinda step into the armory?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like. My only concern is what if we want to change stuff in the field.
Granted, it might be more sound that you need to respawn/warp back logically, but I recall a comment that during the DoW production they originally tried to only allow upgrades when near their own bases, but then a bug snuck in allowing upgrades wherever and people liked that much more.
Anyways, I'm good either way. Just trying to consider what others might like.
The refit station doesn't sound so cool.... once you think about it.
An IP is sorta a phase gate, but is a Reciever, costing massive power to send, but can send great distances without fear of body disconstruction. Phase Gates are more power conserving but require a nanite grid and go only as far as the nanite grid goes.
Having the IP upgraded in NS2, since NS1 was when TSA made contact with the Kharra, and NS2 is '<i>ALL OUT WAR</i>' 10 years later, an upgraded IP wouldn't hurt. A marine can enter it, like a phase gate, and it'd send you to a room, this room can't be entered by aliens, and is suppossed to be aboard what ever frigate/destroyer/carrier/<i>ship</i>, the TSA has floating near by. You can get your upgrades there by (Insert someone's Idea Here) and you can Teleport back by the IP on the ship.
You can take it further by making the marines start in this room, and teleport to the main map by the one IP already made <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
But back to main topic of the topic, having the upgrade's showing on the aliens and marines could be useful, like seeing a skulk with red eyes=Scent of Fear? Marine with bulkier armor, and Leg armor=Armor 2
This relay system sounds kinda cool. A little complicated, and perhaps annoying to code, but cool. So, perhaps the upgrades propagate into the field over time without having to refit (cover the full map corner to corner in 15-30seconds), but if you're too deep into Alien territory the signal might not make it. Obs relays could help speed things up.
Upon consideration, I guess the refit stations aren't such a great idea.
As far as a special room, my guess is instead you can simply bring up a UI to refit anytime, and the next chance you get it is applied. So, while camping in the field, you might fiddle with your setup, then the next time you spawn or go to an IP you get those settings applied. Warping back might be a little much. Also, while in the spawn queue, the standard system of changing settings would apply.
aNytiMe's idea is pretty neat too. Maybe in certain special cases the upgrade can be applied instantly. They may have to take more time to research and only give slight advantage. Another idea would be it unlocks a higher tier of armor. So, getting Armor1 would activate everyone's armor to Armor1, giving a slight boost to everyone in the field. Plus, there's now a slot to add even more armor. However, to change slots, you need to get back to a IP.
Aliens are still the hard one. Carapace might be a different textured back, but how do you show Celerity?
bulkier back legs, longer front legs,
carapace can also add a scale design to the alien's skin
Something I just realized is my tiered armor idea is starting to sound like different tank chassis or something. Perhaps instead armor is two-fold. Part of it is the inner core armor and there's shields. Shields are small in comparison, and have a slow regeneration rate. So, on an Armor upgrade, the shield upgrade will propagate, but the inner armor needs to be built. So, weld the player up or get into a IP to swap out. This gives a boost while still in the field, but the full boost requires a refit.
That's another interesting point. Welding to refit. Hm.... This goes back to the refit stations. My original idea was so it also replaces weapons and lets you swap out your weapon setup. It's pretty useless for just armor swapping. I'm not sure welding to refit weapons, though makes as much sense. Unless somehow the welder gets the new specs that were propagated?
Well if armor structure can be improved, why can't the efficiency of the nano-gunpowder in the guns? So essentially weapons 1 = +P, weapons 2 = +P+ etc...
that the armor should have small animations that pops out a few armor plates here and there.
This is kinda in a way i when with my egg idea after a few posts.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=105018" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=105018</a>
And to see what upgrades an alien has would be grate then you can think quick on your feet and tell how the ailens are doind.
I mean in NS1 you can tell by what weapon and JP/Heavyarmor when humans have upgrades, the aliens are there attacks, but that is effect by the amount og hives right? (sry litte rusty in my NS knowllage)
But see this kind of animation would bring the game more to life and give the modder something uniqe to mod with.
Call it like "Armor Morphing" or something like that.
Anyway i on this idea.
I am going with the assumption that Nanorobotics, on armor would only reform to make a more structurally sound shape such as Oval for no armor, Rectangle for armor 1, Square for armor 2, and Triangle for armor 3. Rather then them being able to build and recombine atoms into an industrial material of combat readiness. So for that assumption it seems they wouldn't be able to do anything for weapons. That'd have to be done as an equipment change either through spawning or the use of an Armory.
So the nanosteel particles are arranged in ovals, rectangles, squares and triangles? This isn't any simpler (it would in fact be much harder, because the "gunpowder" might as well be some kind of a futuristic gas producing aqueous solution) than altering the chemical structure of gunpowder.