ty kouji. Spore in fact is no proof of either side, but just happens to implement Intelligent Design.
Also, I totally agree that there could have been so much more to Spore. For example, who's bright idea was it that each trait is only governed by the maximum trait given by a addon? I want my 6 wings to give me better glide than that giant bat wing. Basically, the trait system is bork.
Also, being peaceful = pwned at civilization phase, whereas aggressive = win. Religion vehicles taking damage no matter what while trying to convert cities = lol. It's their own damn fault for not having defenses. Whereas build 3 attack vehicles and go trounce the first other civ to pop.
But oh well. We had such great aspirations for Spore. And yet we merely have shiny community and creature/vehicle/etc. creator and animator, which by all rights are insanely amazing, but not making a game. Kinda like how we expected Bioshock to be more awesome. It was still awesome, we just expected more awesome. For example, how about that enemy diversity?
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2008
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For example, how about that enemy diversity<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ZING! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Anyway, I just got a cool idea for space stage. Planetary landings where you can actually land and you get the creature phase interface once more (with modern weapons) and your space ship is your "nest". I just don't like all this so now your'e a space ship thing. I want to be able to walk on my own 2 or 20 feet and be emersed by the alien planet instead of hover all over the place...
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
edited September 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1688140:date=Sep 15 2008, 01:46 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Sep 15 2008, 01:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->back to the subject of the game being more about 'intelligent design' than evolution - so how exactly would you design a game about evolution, then? a big button that says 'go' and you press it and then just watch things evolve for hours without you doing anything? or maybe a button would make it intelligent design too, because pressing a button would kind of be like god creating the world in 7 days... =p watching things evolve on their own wouldn't make for much of a game... I think Will Wright did come a little closer 20 years ago with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimEarth" target="_blank">SimEarth</a>, though. At least in that game, for the most part, what you tweaked were levels of atmospheric chemicals and temperatures and volcanism and such.
at any rate, no game will ever surpass the ultimate evolution game:
A game of pure evolution would be boring as hell. At most you'd be able to set up various starting conditions, but then it would just be a cause of hitting "go" and waiting.
No one is saying a game about evolution is a good idea, though. What they're saying is that Spore is being marketed as "evolution" when it's clearly not.
Also @ Spellman
Yes. The religious civilisation is extremely annoying. It's exactly the same as military, except your vehicles do less damage and take more damage. Whoopee.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
<!--quoteo(post=1688126:date=Sep 14 2008, 06:18 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Sep 14 2008, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't remember, are any weapons for use when unarmed? (power fist being the best example) Or do they count as melee? Kind of ridiculous to have them separated in the first place. The boxing ring turned ugly when neither of us could harm each other, I tried kicking him instead of punching with the lower-damage-then-unarmed boxing gloves, big mistake. My manager Stuart Little wasn't happy with Spinning Jenny.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah like brass knuckles or the powerfist/mega powerfist work with the unarmed skill (I was reading the manual earlier today and noticed that it made a point about brass knuckles)
But for example a combat knife or ripper, or spear... those would all be covered under melee weapons.
I don't know however if brass knuckles would get melee weapons skill bonus if your unarmed skill sucked... probably not, but meh, who uses brass knuckles anyway? Super Cattle Prod for the win! Send your enemies flying backwards twenty feet <i>in style.</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1688161:date=Sep 15 2008, 06:02 PM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeonSpyder @ Sep 15 2008, 06:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah like brass knuckles or the powerfist/mega powerfist work with the unarmed skill (I was reading the manual earlier today and noticed that it made a point about brass knuckles)
But for example a combat knife or ripper, or spear... those would all be covered under melee weapons.
I don't know however if brass knuckles would get melee weapons skill bonus if your unarmed skill sucked... probably not, but meh, who uses brass knuckles anyway? Super Cattle Prod for the win! Send your enemies flying backwards twenty feet <i>in style.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? I think you drifted in from another thread.
I've kinda finished the galactic stage now. I haven't gotten to the centre of the galaxy, I'm having troubles making friends with the grox. Otherwise there's not much left for me to do other than rereoll. Might give it some time before I do so though.
In the end... I don't regret buying it, but I do wish it was a bit longer.
--Scythe--
P.S. In before out-of-context, willy-related quoting.
<!--quoteo(post=1688167:date=Sep 15 2008, 10:45 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Sep 15 2008, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do wish it was a bit longer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An evolution game would give you different traits at random, and reverting you back if you failed to grow up and multiply. This leg structure allows you to run faster - but your increased energy consumption forces you to eat more food, and you end up starving to death. Your forelimbs change into rudimentary wings - your ground speed is reduced, but you gain the ability to soar from one tree to another and you successfully multiply, passing your wings on to the next generation.
Not to defend Spore, but where's the gameplay in that system? Survive under new conditions and you'll have to survive under those conditions + some new conditions in the future. Or don't survive and hope for better conditions?
Exactly. Which is why there are none out there yet.
Not to mention how evolution has a bad habit of giving useless traits most of the time. I'd hate to have to keep reverting because I had to find that 1 path to the next species while exhausting the 20 bad ones.
Either that or I'd power game and end up with the worst creature evar... but mad micro and RPG skillz kept it alive.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Btw to anyone who doesn't already know, there's a spore mod that claims to reduce pirate attacks, enemy empire attacks, ecological disasters etc... (on both you and your allies) by varying amounts. You can set it so they happen once every 45 minutes ish, or once ever 100 hours.
I haven't actually tested it yet because I haven't played spore for a few days, so I'm not sure how well it works or what it does to your saves. But for anyone who does wanna use it, <a href="http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=926714&topic=45408739" target="_blank">here ya go.</a>
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1688219:date=Sep 16 2008, 05:42 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Sep 16 2008, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688219"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly. Which is why there are none out there yet.
Not to mention how evolution has a bad habit of giving useless traits most of the time. I'd hate to have to keep reverting because I had to find that 1 path to the next species while exhausting the 20 bad ones.
Either that or I'd power game and end up with the worst creature evar... but mad micro and RPG skillz kept it alive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 100% evolution game would indeed suck, that's why I conjured up a 80%evo20%iteldesign tradeoff so players do have some control to kepe them happy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Yep, would be nice. But alas they simplyfied Spore a little bit to much for my taste. Sure you can do a lot of stuff, but they way you do it is boring to me and feels more like grinding levels/farming money on a badly designed mmorpg.
Not that getting money is hard, it's just tiresome...
I really wish you could make your creature faster by adding more legs. Look! My one-legged jumping stick is WAY faster than your quadruped because it has a magical foot of +5 to speed!
Anyone know when Spore is going to be released?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T8dvMDFOFnA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T8dvMDFOFnA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> <div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA</a></div> Speechless, wtf were they thinking with this sad mutilation they released of this awesome youtube "demo"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah.. there are so many things that were proposed in the early demos that never made it to retail.. Skeletons, underwater creatures and civilizations. Everything was dumbed down, or removed. A lot of the procedural stuff like the dances were changed to instead run on very generic scripts, it no longer figures out how the creatures might do something, and instead takes a predefined script and modifies it only slightly to work with the creature. The creatures in tribal stage are incapable of acting on their own.. the whole monkeys with guns analogy doesn't work, as if you gave the creatures in tribal stage guns.. they'd just sit around waiting to be told what to do.
This video reminds me of why I was excited about spore.. and as such causes me to be much more disappointed in the final product.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
It seems like the biggest deficiency is in the creature mode. Everything else seems more or less like what was presented (with the exception of underwater creatures.)
I was thinking that too, but I realized that Spore doesn't really lend itself to expansion packs, as strange as that may seem being that its an EA game. I mean, the space part of the game is sadly the only part that is actually complete. Its not particularly amazing, but there isn't much to add to it. From there, expansions can only really add to the other stages, and I just find it hard to imagine anyone would consider the possibility that a $40 expansion allowing you to play the creature stage underwater is actually a good idea. $40 for a slightly different version of a stage that is intended to be completed in 30-60 minutes really wouldn't sell. I mean, a good number of people would spend more time going to the store and buying the damn thing than they'd actually get out of it. The only way an expansion would work was if it were all encompassing and made the game into everything we were told it would be in the first place, and this is EA we're talking about, that wouldn't be an expansion, that would be the third game in the series.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1688323:date=Sep 17 2008, 05:14 PM:name=ANeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ANeM @ Sep 17 2008, 05:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was thinking that too, but I realized that Spore doesn't really lend itself to expansion packs, as strange as that may seem being that its an EA game. I mean, the space part of the game is sadly the only part that is actually complete. Its not particularly amazing, but there isn't much to add to it. From there, expansions can only really add to the other stages, and I just find it hard to imagine anyone would consider the possibility that a $40 expansion allowing you to play the creature stage underwater is actually a good idea. $40 for a slightly different version of a stage that is intended to be completed in 30-60 minutes really wouldn't sell. I mean, a good number of people would spend more time going to the store and buying the damn thing than they'd actually get out of it. The only way an expansion would work was if it were all encompassing and made the game into everything we were told it would be in the first place, and this is EA we're talking about, that wouldn't be an expansion, that would be the third game in the series.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno. There's a Sims expansion pack that does nothing but <a href="http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/5601009/-/Product.html?searchstring=sims+ikea&searchsource=0" target="_blank">add some new furniture.</a> No new modes, new jobs etc.. Just a new table and sofa for your imaginary house. $16. Amazing.
I wouldn't be surprised to see underwater civilisations being released as an expansion pack. It just depends how they sell it. For example, you could include an upgrade for your spaceship that lets it fly (swim?) underwater. Bam. "Spore: Underwater instantly doubles the galaxy's available space!". Add in some underwater missions, underwater colonies etc... and you've got your typical EA expansion.
Comments
Also, I totally agree that there could have been so much more to Spore. For example, who's bright idea was it that each trait is only governed by the maximum trait given by a addon? I want my 6 wings to give me better glide than that giant bat wing. Basically, the trait system is bork.
Also, being peaceful = pwned at civilization phase, whereas aggressive = win. Religion vehicles taking damage no matter what while trying to convert cities = lol. It's their own damn fault for not having defenses. Whereas build 3 attack vehicles and go trounce the first other civ to pop.
But oh well. We had such great aspirations for Spore. And yet we merely have shiny community and creature/vehicle/etc. creator and animator, which by all rights are insanely amazing, but not making a game. Kinda like how we expected Bioshock to be more awesome. It was still awesome, we just expected more awesome. For example, how about that enemy diversity?
ZING! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Anyway, I just got a cool idea for space stage. Planetary landings where you can actually land and you get the creature phase interface once more (with modern weapons) and your space ship is your "nest". I just don't like all this so now your'e a space ship thing. I want to be able to walk on my own 2 or 20 feet and be emersed by the alien planet instead of hover all over the place...
at any rate, no game will ever surpass the ultimate evolution game:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.V.O.:_Search_for_Eden" target="_blank"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Evo_search_eden_box.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A game of pure evolution would be boring as hell. At most you'd be able to set up various starting conditions, but then it would just be a cause of hitting "go" and waiting.
No one is saying a game about evolution is a good idea, though. What they're saying is that Spore is being marketed as "evolution" when it's clearly not.
Also @ Spellman
Yes. The religious civilisation is extremely annoying. It's exactly the same as military, except your vehicles do less damage and take more damage. Whoopee.
Yeah like brass knuckles or the powerfist/mega powerfist work with the unarmed skill (I was reading the manual earlier today and noticed that it made a point about brass knuckles)
But for example a combat knife or ripper, or spear... those would all be covered under melee weapons.
I don't know however if brass knuckles would get melee weapons skill bonus if your unarmed skill sucked... probably not, but meh, who uses brass knuckles anyway? Super Cattle Prod for the win! Send your enemies flying backwards twenty feet <i>in style.</i>
But for example a combat knife or ripper, or spear... those would all be covered under melee weapons.
I don't know however if brass knuckles would get melee weapons skill bonus if your unarmed skill sucked... probably not, but meh, who uses brass knuckles anyway? Super Cattle Prod for the win! Send your enemies flying backwards twenty feet <i>in style.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? I think you drifted in from another thread.
I've kinda finished the galactic stage now. I haven't gotten to the centre of the galaxy, I'm having troubles making friends with the grox. Otherwise there's not much left for me to do other than rereoll. Might give it some time before I do so though.
In the end... I don't regret buying it, but I do wish it was a bit longer.
--Scythe--
P.S. In before out-of-context, willy-related quoting.
That's what <i>she</i> said!
In during out-of-context, willy-related quoting.
Not to mention how evolution has a bad habit of giving useless traits most of the time. I'd hate to have to keep reverting because I had to find that 1 path to the next species while exhausting the 20 bad ones.
Either that or I'd power game and end up with the worst creature evar... but mad micro and RPG skillz kept it alive.
I haven't actually tested it yet because I haven't played spore for a few days, so I'm not sure how well it works or what it does to your saves. But for anyone who does wanna use it, <a href="http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=926714&topic=45408739" target="_blank">here ya go.</a>
Not to mention how evolution has a bad habit of giving useless traits most of the time. I'd hate to have to keep reverting because I had to find that 1 path to the next species while exhausting the 20 bad ones.
Either that or I'd power game and end up with the worst creature evar... but mad micro and RPG skillz kept it alive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100% evolution game would indeed suck, that's why I conjured up a 80%evo20%iteldesign tradeoff so players do have some control to kepe them happy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I like being the allmighty creator, that can reverse a creatures biology to 100% with a few mouse clicks.
But having more factors impact the way a creature plays would be nice.
Not that getting money is hard, it's just tiresome...
Anyone know when Spore is going to be released?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T8dvMDFOFnA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T8dvMDFOFnA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA</a></div>
Speechless, wtf were they thinking with this sad mutilation they released of this awesome youtube "demo"
Anyone know when Spore is going to be released?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T8dvMDFOFnA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T8dvMDFOFnA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA</a></div>
Speechless, wtf were they thinking with this sad mutilation they released of this awesome youtube "demo"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah.. there are so many things that were proposed in the early demos that never made it to retail.. Skeletons, underwater creatures and civilizations. Everything was dumbed down, or removed. A lot of the procedural stuff like the dances were changed to instead run on very generic scripts, it no longer figures out how the creatures might do something, and instead takes a predefined script and modifies it only slightly to work with the creature.
The creatures in tribal stage are incapable of acting on their own.. the whole monkeys with guns analogy doesn't work, as if you gave the creatures in tribal stage guns.. they'd just sit around waiting to be told what to do.
This video reminds me of why I was excited about spore.. and as such causes me to be much more disappointed in the final product.
pshaw
Nooooooooooo...
This is EA. I'm sure we'll see all the removed content being released periodically at $40 a pop.
"Spore: Underwater!" $40.
This is EA. I'm sure we'll see all the removed content being released periodically at $40 a pop.
"Spore: Underwater!" $40.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking that too, but I realized that Spore doesn't really lend itself to expansion packs, as strange as that may seem being that its an EA game.
I mean, the space part of the game is sadly the only part that is actually complete. Its not particularly amazing, but there isn't much to add to it. From there, expansions can only really add to the other stages, and I just find it hard to imagine anyone would consider the possibility that a $40 expansion allowing you to play the creature stage underwater is actually a good idea. $40 for a slightly different version of a stage that is intended to be completed in 30-60 minutes really wouldn't sell. I mean, a good number of people would spend more time going to the store and buying the damn thing than they'd actually get out of it.
The only way an expansion would work was if it were all encompassing and made the game into everything we were told it would be in the first place, and this is EA we're talking about, that wouldn't be an expansion, that would be the third game in the series.
I mean, the space part of the game is sadly the only part that is actually complete. Its not particularly amazing, but there isn't much to add to it. From there, expansions can only really add to the other stages, and I just find it hard to imagine anyone would consider the possibility that a $40 expansion allowing you to play the creature stage underwater is actually a good idea. $40 for a slightly different version of a stage that is intended to be completed in 30-60 minutes really wouldn't sell. I mean, a good number of people would spend more time going to the store and buying the damn thing than they'd actually get out of it.
The only way an expansion would work was if it were all encompassing and made the game into everything we were told it would be in the first place, and this is EA we're talking about, that wouldn't be an expansion, that would be the third game in the series.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno. There's a Sims expansion pack that does nothing but <a href="http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/5601009/-/Product.html?searchstring=sims+ikea&searchsource=0" target="_blank">add some new furniture.</a> No new modes, new jobs etc.. Just a new table and sofa for your imaginary house. $16. Amazing.
I wouldn't be surprised to see underwater civilisations being released as an expansion pack. It just depends how they sell it. For example, you could include an upgrade for your spaceship that lets it fly (swim?) underwater. Bam. "Spore: Underwater instantly doubles the galaxy's available space!". Add in some underwater missions, underwater colonies etc... and you've got your typical EA expansion.
Do they? Really? I'd be super surprised if it's not selling it's goddamned pants off.
--Scythe--