<!--quoteo(post=1687374:date=Sep 4 2008, 05:08 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PsympleJester @ Sep 4 2008, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree, to give a backstory on why the marines dont go in fully armed to the teeth you have to look at the bigger picture...
The battle between the Khaara and Man is not just the skirmish you encounter in each map... It is a huge struggle on many space stations, planets. The Millitary is spread accross all known space fighting the Khaara as they appear in pockets accross the galaxy. By the way the at the start of each game the Khaara only start with one hive and basic life forms we must Presume that they have recentyl arrive and are thus only a small pocket. The Millitary would not send in elite troops with very advanced and expensive equipment to a small pocket of infestation. However as the Khaara give more and more resistance the Commander is able to requisition more and more equipment to destory the Khaara.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> After seeing how hard it is to fight the aliens on the ground and thinking about how simple it'd be to win if you just had a SLIGHT advantage in the form of HMGs/shotguns and HA/Jetpacks from the start. I think the TSA would honestly start equipping marines with that stuff from the start. My explanation still wins.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Blink reminds me of the Barracuda as it can do bursts <a href="http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/gallery/descript/GreatBarracuda/GreatBarracuda.html" target="_blank"> as fast as 36 mph (58 kph)</a> when they go to strike prey... Ive seen this and it as though the fish is just a blur until it stops again also consider that water is ALOT denser than air... I think the possiblity is there...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair point, what mechanism does the fade use to move through the air though? Jet propulsion?
<!--quoteo(post=1686939:date=Aug 29 2008, 10:42 PM:name=wankalot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wankalot @ Aug 29 2008, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your reply to my g force question left me confused. ill try and illustrate my confusion with an example: on a roller coaster high positive g is experienced when the car's path curves upwards, where riders feel as if they weigh more than usual. This is often reversed when the car's path curves downwards, and lower than normal g is felt, causing the riders to feel lighter or even weightless.
How can these sensations be felt in space if you are weightless in space? Please consider yourself a physics teacher for a moment ^^. I have already confessed not knowing much about physics... help me out. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1686942:date=Aug 29 2008, 11:42 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 11:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gravity is a distortion of space, although it should be explained as a force acting on you. Acceleration is the change in velocity. Whether you go up or down on a roller coaster, the centripetal acceleration due to gravity (g) always remains constant, what changes is the acceleration (a). The constant acceleration due to gravity is ~9.8m/s^2. <b>Acceleration as you know, is constantly added to your velocity until you either hit terminal velocity in atmosphere, or the speed of light in a vacuum. [that line is not actually true--Kero]</b>
Gravity is one force which constantly accelerates you by 9.8m/s^2. Do you know another force which can accelerate you faster than 9.8m/s^2? I know one! Jet propulsion. What do you think 10gs of force means? it means 10 of 9.8m/s^2 worth of acceleration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did this explanation tell you everything you needed, wankalot? If not I might be able to help clarify it.
Gravity is a very unique force, in that it is impossible to actually feel. Gravity acts on all parts of you equally, accelerating your entire body through space together, so you don't notice a change. (Exception -- Tidal forces can change this slightly, but those are rare enough that we can ignore them for now.) What you normally DO feel is the force of the ground or your chair pushing UP on you, coincidentally by the same amount as the force of gravity most of the time, except this force is all concentrated near your feet. This time you can feel it because your feet are being pushed up towards the rest of your body, and so you feel compressed. Since we normally walk around every day being compressed by 1 G worth of force, that feels normal to us, and so we feel weird coming down the slope of that rollercoaster when w are compressed by much less force, possibly as little as 0 in freefall.
Now, how does this relate to space travel? Most spaceships have a large engine strapped on to the back, and the ship moves by turning on the engine. But the engine doesn't affect the entire ship directly, the engine works by pushing real hard against the part of the ship closest to it, which then pushes real hard on the next part of the ship, and so on until we reach the pilots chair. When the Engine is off, you are correct that the pilot feels no Gs at all. He is weightless. But when the Engine is turned on, the pilot is only going to keep moving at the same speed as the rest of the ship because the Pilot's chair is now pushing real hard on his back. Even though the force of gravity on the pilot is still almost nothing, he now feels quite a bit of weight, because the chair pushing on him now is basically the same force he felt every day on Earth whenever he sat down.
So the last question is, how HARD does the chair push against the pilot? If it pushes more than about 10 times harder than the pilot's chair did back home on earth ("10 Gs"), he's going to black out from the pressure. But if it pushes less than 10 times harder, that means the ship is not going to reach distant star systems any time soon. This is the point of unrealism that Anytime brought up originally.
Edit: I can't believe it actually censored wankalot's name. >.>
<!--quoteo(post=1687374:date=Sep 4 2008, 12:08 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PsympleJester @ Sep 4 2008, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree, to give a backstory on why the marines dont go in fully armed to the teeth you have to look at the bigger picture...
The battle between the Khaara and Man is not just the skirmish you encounter in each map... It is a huge struggle on many space stations, planets. The Millitary is spread accross all known space fighting the Khaara as they appear in pockets accross the galaxy. <b>By the way the at the start of each game the Khaara only start with one hive and basic life forms we must Presume that they have recentyl arrive and are thus only a small pocket. </b>The Millitary would not send in elite troops with very advanced and expensive equipment to a small pocket of infestation. However as the Khaara give more and more resistance the Commander is able to requisition more and more equipment to destory the Khaara.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting thing that point, it makes me wonder where all the civilians got off to, in a infection incursion is only "recent" - though of course, recent is a relative term.
Still, I like to think the Kharaa hibernate till the Marine's show up and only use energy and resources as a response to them showing up. The Kharaa infection is basicly a bunch of shape shifters, IMHO.
The part of the story that I feel needs explanation is that if what was before was the first encounter of a sorts and this is now a recognized all out war, why don't the humans atomize targets from orbit? Oh, nevermind, I just thought of a reason, the human race would be constantly torching their own resources and the Kharaa would just keep trucking through the stars unabated.
Actually, how do the Kharaa truck through the stars? Do they launch themselves as spore encased in asteroids or something? Can they communicate and coordinate over stellar distances? Are new infections autonomous? Does the "blink" and "cloak" of the Kharaa indicate that they have discovered other methods of spore dispersion and communication? Does it use the same forces of nature that Marines do to phase and portal as well?
Disco StuJoin Date: 2008-08-26Member: 64905Members
<!--quoteo(post=1687394:date=Sep 5 2008, 04:19 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Sep 5 2008, 04:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687394"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, how do the Kharaa truck through the stars? Do they launch themselves as spore encased in asteroids or something? Can they communicate and coordinate over stellar distances? Are new infections autonomous? Does the "blink" and "cloak" of the Kharaa indicate that they have discovered other methods of spore dispersion and communication? Does it use the same forces of nature that Marines do to phase and portal as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good questions? We've been bugging around the TSA and their FTL travel, phasegate quantum stuff - but how do the kharaa get around?
From what I can understand the distance between planets within a single solar system is months of travel at conventional methods. If this limitation applied to a non-technology based life form we could expect a simple isolation of the kharaa within a specific solar system. (Not to mention the problem of solar winds, radiation, the vacuum of space, the minus 270 odd deg C that comes with space travel.)
Possible solution:
Other non-combat evolutions.
If this were the case then it would be completely feasible that the kharaa were amassing the nurtients from the nano-sludge for an uber-huge evolve that would allow something like dimensional travel or FTL or blink tavel etc. Maybe a giant cannon that fires an Onos with a fade stuck to its butt for extra propulsion.
This would also be a neat solution as to why the aliens only have one hive going when the marines arive - they need the rez for the big morph.
What would be scary is the aliens being able to learn in a certain type of form. A form intelligent enough to start self modification at a genetic level. This would allow a custom build of an insterstellar form capable of spreading the alien DNA. Note that the amount of info stored on normal human DNA is vast - enough to fill 100 gig hard drives stacked up to the moon (or some such impressive example). That amount of info storage would be plenty if they could modify their storage info.
So what do you think - should the kharaa have anything other than their standard combat forms? And if they have an interstellar travel form should it be a giant cannon, a mass of blinking spores (wow - that sounds like a pirate cursing) or some other weird morph?
<!--quoteo(post=1687394:date=Sep 4 2008, 09:19 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Sep 4 2008, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687394"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The part of the story that I feel needs explanation is that if what was before was the first encounter of a sorts and this is now a recognized all out war, why don't the humans atomize targets from orbit? Oh, nevermind, I just thought of a reason, the human race would be constantly torching their own resources and the Kharaa would just keep trucking through the stars unabated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're assuming the Kharaa have infinite resources to send stuff through the stars. That is ridiculous to think about, do you know how much energy it takes to simply resist gravitational forces? It'd make plenty of sense if the Kharaa are a biological weapon which was used by some state on the Mongols, but then it spiraled out of control. That would mean that the Kharaa don't have that far to travel between systems.
<!--quoteo(post=1687448:date=Sep 5 2008, 09:32 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 5 2008, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're assuming the Kharaa have infinite resources to send stuff through the stars. That is ridiculous to think about, do you know how much energy it takes to simply resist gravitational forces? It'd make plenty of sense if the Kharaa are a biological weapon which was used by some state on the Mongols, but then it spiraled out of control. That would mean that the Kharaa don't have that far to travel between systems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I assume that? A single planet can have lots of resources - now toss in any number of them the Kharaa infection has made it to.
Besides, we already know they have made it out of gravity wells, Marines are fighting them on space stations and ships, so once they have passed that hurdle, now they can use gravity to their advantage to sling around solar systems.
If the shape shifters were a bio weapon went wrong, where is the Achilles Heel that the designers of the shape shifting infection would have designed in? Surely there are far more simple bio weapons that could be used than something with the ability to evolve on micro and macro at incredible rates. Nah, I much prefer the notion that while exploring the stars, humans inadvertently bumped into the Kharaa, tried to declare the place a no fly zone while they cleaned up but discovered they had far underestimated the level Kharaa were already on and now its interstellar war where the stakes couldn't be higher.
<!--quoteo(post=1687394:date=Sep 4 2008, 10:19 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Sep 4 2008, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687394"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting thing that point, it makes me wonder where all the civilians got off to, in a infection incursion is only "recent" - though of course, recent is a relative term.
Still, I like to think the Kharaa hibernate till the Marine's show up and only use energy and resources as a response to them showing up. The Kharaa infection is basicly a bunch of shape shifters, IMHO.
The part of the story that I feel needs explanation is that if what was before was the first encounter of a sorts and this is now a recognized all out war, why don't the humans atomize targets from orbit? Oh, nevermind, I just thought of a reason, the human race would be constantly torching their own resources and the Kharaa would just keep trucking through the stars unabated.
Actually, how do the Kharaa truck through the stars? Do they launch themselves as spore encased in asteroids or something? Can they communicate and coordinate over stellar distances? Are new infections autonomous? Does the "blink" and "cloak" of the Kharaa indicate that they have discovered other methods of spore dispersion and communication? Does it use the same forces of nature that Marines do to phase and portal as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1687429:date=Sep 5 2008, 09:44 AM:name=Disco Stu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Disco Stu @ Sep 5 2008, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good questions? We've been bugging around the TSA and their FTL travel, phasegate quantum stuff - but how do the kharaa get around?
From what I can understand the distance between planets within a single solar system is months of travel at conventional methods. If this limitation applied to a non-technology based life form we could expect a simple isolation of the kharaa within a specific solar system. (Not to mention the problem of solar winds, radiation, the vacuum of space, the minus 270 odd deg C that comes with space travel.)
Possible solution:
Other non-combat evolutions.
If this were the case then it would be completely feasible that the kharaa were amassing the nurtients from the nano-sludge for an uber-huge evolve that would allow something like dimensional travel or FTL or blink tavel etc. Maybe a giant cannon that fires an Onos with a fade stuck to its butt for extra propulsion.
This would also be a neat solution as to why the aliens only have one hive going when the marines arive - they need the rez for the big morph.
What would be scary is the aliens being able to learn in a certain type of form. A form intelligent enough to start self modification at a genetic level. This would allow a custom build of an insterstellar form capable of spreading the alien DNA. Note that the amount of info stored on normal human DNA is vast - enough to fill 100 gig hard drives stacked up to the moon (or some such impressive example). That amount of info storage would be plenty if they could modify their storage info.
So what do you think - should the kharaa have anything other than their standard combat forms? And if they have an interstellar travel form should it be a giant cannon, a mass of blinking spores (wow - that sounds like a pirate cursing) or some other weird morph?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or that the khaara have just landed, say in a comet that collides with a planet or maybe even just in a huge sphere of bacteria that has been launched through space, when it comes in contact with a human space station it recieves heat through the pipes excetra that it laches onto, this revives the bacteria from stasis and it "chews" through the outside into the inside of the space station where it produces scout organisms "skulks" and then the final mass of bacteria becomes a hive...
<!--quoteo(post=1687375:date=Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After seeing how hard it is to fight the aliens on the ground and thinking about how simple it'd be to win if you just had a SLIGHT advantage in the form of HMGs/shotguns and HA/Jetpacks from the start. I think the TSA would honestly start equipping marines with that stuff from the start. My explanation still wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This explanation would fit in well with my original back story fixing the discrepancys that your have found because if the Khaara landed on comets or balls of bacteria the TSA would not be certain whether the object that collided with a planet or space station was active or not. Assuming the war is a throughout the known galaxy we would also presume that comits and unidentified projectiles would appear very frequently from unidentified space and alot of them would be completly inocent pieces of rock or maybe Khaara bacteria that is still dormant when discovered by the TSA force... This would mean that there is no garentee that the unidentified projectile the TSA are sent to identify is even going to be hostile and that if out of every 10,000 unidentified objects they search in a standard earth year only 400 have any Khaara on them at all with only 100 of them being active and hostile. It makes no sence to waste such a huge ammount of equipment on every single search.
<!--quoteo(post=1687375:date=Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fair point, what mechanism does the fade use to move through the air though? Jet propulsion?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why does it have to be explained? Can it not be left alone and just presume that it is possible... Why does it have to be explained?
<!--quoteo(post=1687448:date=Sep 5 2008, 03:32 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 5 2008, 03:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're assuming the Kharaa have infinite resources to send stuff through the stars. That is ridiculous to think about, do you know how much energy it takes to simply resist gravitational forces? It'd make plenty of sense if the Kharaa are a biological weapon which was used by some state on the Mongols, but then it spiraled out of control. That would mean that the Kharaa don't have that far to travel between systems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why does it have to be explained? Can it not be left alone and just presume that it is possible... Why does it have to be explained?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It has to be explained b/c it is science fiction, not fantasy. Read the thread dude.
Dyson sphere a huge energy capure sphere around a sun to harness all of its thermal energy...
+ as canadian says the Khaara are already in space...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you saying that the Kharaa have the resources AND the engineering skills (lol, so far they haven't demonstrated any at all) to build a Dyson sphere? If so, humans should just F4 out of existence. Dyson spheres are pretty impossible to build in any <b>reasonable</b> amount of time (not anywhere in the near 5,000 years), plus there are better ways of collecting energy such as ram-scooping gas giants.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Besides, we already know they have made it out of gravity wells, Marines are fighting them on space stations and ships, so once they have passed that hurdle, now they can use gravity to their advantage to sling around solar systems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because the spores defeated one gravity well, doesn't mean that they can defeat multiple. I just don't see spores having too much reaction mass they can use to adjust trajectory. The best scientific bet is that the aliens use some kind of ground based launch platforms, like the bugs in starship troopers. I'm assuming the TSA has already found where the aliens are doing this from and launched a whole bunch of nukes in their general direction.
<!--quoteo(post=1687482:date=Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It has to be explained b/c it is science fiction, not fantasy. Read the thread dude.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok how about like the baracuda swims through water the fade has evolved to be almost lighter than atmosphere allowing it to actualy "swim" through air... This would mean that aslong as there is some prepulsion from the fade it would glide through the air as it does, this could be done by it having some sort of part of its body that sucks air through and fires it out the back (no not its arse... we cannot say the fade flys by farting.) as sort of as you suggested jet propulsion, while doing this it would use its claws as a rudder of sorts.
<!--quoteo(post=1687482:date=Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you saying that the Kharaa have the resources AND the engineering skills (lol, so far they haven't demonstrated any at all) to build a Dyson sphere? If so, humans should just F4 out of existence. Dyson spheres are pretty impossible to build in any <b>reasonable</b> amount of time (not anywhere in the near 5,000 years), plus there are better ways of collecting energy such as ram-scooping gas giants.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was considering more that because they are bacteria forms that have been able to make it into outer space... Assuming khaara bacteria photosynthasises even getting just a small ammount of the bacteria to orbit around the sun they can use the photosynthesised energy to and harvest dust from space to reproduce... Then from this orbitting "breeding ground" they could eventualy allow pieces to break off which would float through space as exploration and invasion forces. This would mean the khaara literally leach from the life source of the universe... (the sun, I know black hole are beguining to be considered the life of the universe but the sun is the well known one...)
<!--quoteo(post=1687482:date=Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because the spores defeated one gravity well, doesn't mean that they can defeat multiple. I just don't see spores having too much reaction mass they can use to adjust trajectory. The best scientific bet is that the aliens use some kind of ground based launch platforms, like the bugs in starship troopers. I'm assuming the TSA has already found where the aliens are doing this from and launched a whole bunch of nukes in their general direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1687482:date=Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you saying that the Kharaa have the resources AND the engineering skills (lol, so far they haven't demonstrated any at all)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe fade has some organ that creates magnetic fields or something? Just an intension<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought the original idea behind blink was that it was a form of biological teleportation, they "blinked" in and out of our dimension kinda like going back and fourth between xen and black mesa. This is why I hate the new fade blink where they fly around the map, see my topic in the ideas section "bring back insta blink"
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1687629:date=Sep 8 2008, 04:54 PM:name=DOGFISHHEAD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOGFISHHEAD @ Sep 8 2008, 04:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687629"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought the original idea behind blink was that it was a form of biological teleportation, they "blinked" in and out of our dimension kinda like going back and fourth between xen and black mesa. This is why I hate the new fade blink where they fly around the map, see my topic in the ideas section "bring back insta blink"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lets just wait until test results of LHC are ready (in 2 years? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />). Then our knowledge maybe allows more science based possible explanations of fade blink and phase gates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Well here is my explanaion of fades and their blinking:
The hive is a huge database which manipulates genetic information of all lifeforms etc... So the hive actually designs the fade to work in the human environment of 1atm and with metallic surfaces covering 99% of the terrain. The fade is actually made out of something like 90% lighter than air gas so it is only very slightly heavier than air. It propels itself by some electromagnetic function.
Now you might think, hey the fade is mostly porous so it must be paper right? Wrong. First of all, it has an exoskeleton which is probably made out of some cool stuff. Second of all, since its mostly gas, there is going to be no hydrostatic shock! The bullets will just go straight through without doing much damage at all. The fade can quickly pick bacteria out of the air to replace the cells it loses and has means of regenerating the lighter than air gas. Even though there is no hydrostatic shock, the fade has one obvious weakness. 00 buckshot. GG.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fade.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::fade::" border="0" alt="fade.gif" /> The fade is not a balloon. I repeat, the fade is not a balloon!
<lameargument>
I'll refrain from the whole "It's just a game" argument here. But I will add that people play the game for an escape. It's a way to get out of your own life and into the lives of the Kharaa / Humans in crisis. At that point, does it <i>really</i> have to be realistic? Do you realize you're only playing a game when something 'unbelievable' happens in the game like teleportation? I honestly can't understand how something like teleportation would remind you you're playing a game, but shooting aliens on a foriegn planet won't.
</lameargument>
With that said, I should add that though nobody has ever seen someone pass through a wormhole, I'd imagine it would look much different than it does in the movies. In all likelihood, seeing through a wormhole would look a bit like having a weak magnifying glass held up to your face. Where the magnification is, it would simply look closer than it would otherwise.
From an outside point of view, the entire length of the wormhole would look completely normal. Someone passing through the wormhole would appear to be moving very fast (and perhaps even a little stretched) even if technically that person was merely walking through. So that seems fairly consistent with what fades do now (aside from the stretching part). Only thing that isn't consistent is how it would look for the fade before jumping.
I don't think phase pads for humans would really work like that. That seems to fit the whole 'teleportation' bit, which is to say all molecules are ripped from you piece by piece and reassembled on the other side. As far as science fiction is concerned, that's about as far away from realistic as you can get. The far more likely scenario and what scientists are currently trying to do with quantum theory is to bend the 4th dimension so that 3-dimensional objects can warp there (according to theory, you always have to use the next-highest dimension. This is relative to bending a newspaper so that both ends meet. It is technically a 2-dimensional object , but you use 3 dimensions to create a gateway that wasn't previously there. Imagine this, but for 3-dimensional objects instead of 2). Despite what common knowledge might suggest, we're far closer to achieving this than the alternative method.
I should add for any discrepancy on Quantum Theory that it *is* the single most accurate theory commonly accepted by scientists today. Even the theory of relativity pales by comparison. It may not make sense, but it is incredibly accurate model of the universe. If I'm not mistaken, they've already managed to 'teleport' an atom from one room to another in a controlled laboratory using fundamental Quantum Theory principles. They're currently working on molecule transportation.
<!--quoteo(post=1687824:date=Sep 11 2008, 10:48 AM:name=Hawkeye)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hawkeye @ Sep 11 2008, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fade.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::fade::" border="0" alt="fade.gif" /> The fade is not a balloon. I repeat, the fade is not a balloon!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The fade is not a balloon much like a human is not a tub of water, even though humans are mostly water.
I'll refrain from the whole "It's just a game" argument here. But I will add that people play the game for an escape. It's a way to get out of your own life and into the lives of the Kharaa / Humans in crisis. At that point, does it <i>really</i> have to be realistic? Do you realize you're only playing a game when something 'unbelievable' happens in the game like teleportation? I honestly can't understand how something like teleportation would remind you you're playing a game, but shooting aliens on a foriegn planet won't.
</lameargument><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh trust me, I could care less about escapism and this so called "immersion". I can tell the difference between an image displayed by a computer monitor and real life well enough. But this isn't about that. This is about most science fiction writers/game developers coming up with COMPLETE drivel such as teleportation and >c travel. This can certainly be avoided. There is no "science" in their fiction and that ticks me off.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With that said, I should add that though nobody has ever seen someone pass through a wormhole, I'd imagine it would look much different than it does in the movies. In all likelihood, seeing through a wormhole would look a bit like having a weak magnifying glass held up to your face. Where the magnification is, it would simply look closer than it would otherwise.
From an outside point of view, the entire length of the wormhole would look completely normal. Someone passing through the wormhole would appear to be moving very fast (and perhaps even a little stretched) even if technically that person was merely walking through. So that seems fairly consistent with what fades do now (aside from the stretching part). Only thing that isn't consistent is how it would look for the fade before jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem here is that you take the concept of wormholes for granted, Hollywood did a wonderful job raising you to be an aspiring pseudoscientist.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think phase pads for humans would really work like that. That seems to fit the whole 'teleportation' bit, which is to say all molecules are ripped from you piece by piece and reassembled on the other side. As far as science fiction is concerned, that's about as far away from realistic as you can get. The far more likely scenario and what scientists are currently trying to do with quantum theory is to bend the 4th dimension so that 3-dimensional objects can warp there (according to theory, you always have to use the next-highest dimension. This is relative to bending a newspaper so that both ends meet. It is technically a 2-dimensional object , but you use 3 dimensions to create a gateway that wasn't previously there. Imagine this, but for 3-dimensional objects instead of 2). Despite what common knowledge might suggest, we're far closer to achieving this than the alternative method.
I should add for any discrepancy on Quantum Theory that it *is* the single most accurate theory commonly accepted by scientists today. Even the theory of relativity pales by comparison. It may not make sense, but it is incredibly accurate model of the universe. If I'm not mistaken, they've already managed to 'teleport' an atom from one room to another in a controlled laboratory using fundamental Quantum Theory principles. They're currently working on molecule transportation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A) Interacting with the 4th or 5th dimensions? How exactly would you go about doing this? Explain in detail or concede due to not knowing what you're talking about. B) Quantum Theory isn't argued in the scientific community, but that doesn't mean you can get away with saying PHASE GATES WORK DUE TO MASSIVE WORM HOLES CREATED BY QUANTUM THEORY. If you don't have a quantum physics degree, again, you should not talk about quantum physics at all because the chances are, you completely missed the point. C) You don't understand. Disassembling and reassembling something molecule by molecule is unarguably easier than making something break the laws of physics.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fade is not a balloon much like a human is not a tub of water, even though humans are mostly water.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't see fades thrown across the room when hit with a shotgun round. Perhaps that's because there's a 'realism' issue that needs to be worked out or maybe not. I'm willing to put my money on the fact that the fade is not a balloon, but that's just me.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem here is that you take the concept of wormholes for granted, Hollywood did a wonderful job raising you to be an aspiring pseudoscientist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's merely logical. If it were possible to connect two points in 3d space and walk through it, that's what it would look like. I didn't share it just to get insulted by one who disagrees with my theory. Rather, I didn't share it to those with mouths and no ears. For a change rather than vomiting insults when you read something you disagree with, why don't you try not making baseless attacks?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A) Interacting with the 4th or 5th dimensions? How exactly would you go about doing this? Explain in detail or concede due to not knowing what you're talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you were an ant, life would seem pretty flat I imagine. Suppose for a second that this ant is a 2-dimensional creature. If it were walking on a newspaper and reached the edge, there'd be no place to go. However, if you wrapped the newspaper to make both edges meet, the ant could continue to walk on the opposite side of the newspaper with little or no energy involved. To an observer in the 2nd dimension, the ant simply vanished and reappeared on the opposite side and to the ant, it is as if nothing happened at all, though being 3-dimensional creatures ourselves, we know better. The theory is that you can travel to varying points in 3d space by using the 4th dimension, much like connecting the ends of the newspaper allowed the ant to travel from one edge to the other. Similarly, you could move from any point in 4d space using the 5th dimension (moving through both space and time). Us being 3 dimensional beings, it would seem as if someone disappeared and reappeared somewhere else. We simply lack the understanding more than lacking the technology. The metaphor with the ant is a far easier concept to grasp because our perception is limited to 3d space. For all intents and purposes, there's no reason to believe it would take so much energy to do it either.
This is also the reason why I say the 'gateway' teleportation idea is a far closer reality than getting torn apart bit by bit and reassembled. Assuming we even knew how to do that, what computer is going to have enough memory to know the exact contents and positions of every molecule in your entire body? To record the coordinates of every atom in your body alone (assuming it took 8 bytes) would be something on the order of 5.215 * 10^19 GB (there are approximately 7 * 10^27 atoms in the human body). How many gigabytes are you packing on your computer now? 80? 100?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B) Quantum Theory isn't argued in the scientific community, but that doesn't mean you can get away with saying PHASE GATES WORK DUE TO MASSIVE WORM HOLES CREATED BY QUANTUM THEORY. If you don't have a quantum physics degree, again, you should not talk about quantum physics at all because the chances are, you completely missed the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually my talk about the precision of Quantum Theory was regarding an earlier argument which stated that Quantum Theory was not a reliable theory. Don't assume I was referring entirely to your post or it will be I who will be saying that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics#Quantum_mechanics_and_classical_physics" target="_blank">you completely missed the point</a>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->C) You don't understand. Disassembling and reassembling something molecule by molecule is unarguably easier than making something break the laws of physics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unarguably? Really? That's a strong word to use. I beg to differ. Besides, what you call 'breaking the laws of physics', I call fairly fundamental Quantum Theory.
<!--quoteo(post=1687842:date=Sep 11 2008, 01:25 PM:name=Hawkeye)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hawkeye @ Sep 11 2008, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687842"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't see fades thrown across the room when hit with a shotgun round. Perhaps that's because there's a 'realism' issue that needs to be worked out or maybe not. I'm willing to put my money on the fact that the fade is not a balloon, but that's just me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course that can be explained away by saying that fades have piezoelectric muscles or some such substitute. Their cerebellum analog constantly adjusts an electromagnetic field by flexing the muscles preventing it from moving when it doesn't want to. Fades aren't aerodynamically stable after all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's merely logical. If it were possible to connect two points in 3d space and walk through it, that's what it would look like. I didn't share it just to get insulted by one who disagrees with my theory. Rather, I didn't share it to those with mouths and no ears. For a change rather than vomiting insults when you read something you disagree with, why don't you try not making baseless attacks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I will try to cut down on the ad hominem attacks, sorry. I shouldn't argue with what "teleportation" would look like, because the subject is irrelevant to me. Not a single person has successfully argued the plausibility of it after all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you were an ant, life would seem pretty flat I imagine. Suppose for a second that this ant is a 2-dimensional creature. If it were walking on a newspaper and reached the edge, there'd be no place to go. However, if you wrapped the newspaper to make both edges meet, the ant could continue to walk on the opposite side of the newspaper with little or no energy involved. To an observer in the 2nd dimension, the ant simply vanished and reappeared on the opposite side and to the ant, it is as if nothing happened at all, though being 3-dimensional creatures ourselves, we know better. The theory is that you can travel to varying points in 3d space by using the 4th dimension, much like connecting the ends of the newspaper allowed the ant to travel from one edge to the other. Similarly, you could move from any point in 4d space using the 5th dimension (moving through both space and time). Us being 3 dimensional beings, it would seem as if someone disappeared and reappeared somewhere else. We simply lack the understanding more than lacking the technology. The metaphor with the ant is a far easier concept to grasp because our perception is limited to 3d space. For all intents and purposes, there's no reason to believe it would take so much energy to do it either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> However, a paper isn't really 2 dimensional and neither is an ant. There is nothing we know of that is honestly 2 dimensional. There is no evidence that we can have a presence/influence other dimensions no matter how hard we want/try.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is also the reason why I say the 'gateway' teleportation idea is a far closer reality than getting torn apart bit by bit and reassembled. Assuming we even knew how to do that, what computer is going to have enough memory to know the exact contents and positions of every molecule in your entire body? To record the coordinates of every atom in your body alone (assuming it took 8 bytes) would be something on the order of 5.215 * 10^19 GB (there are approximately 7 * 10^27 atoms in the human body). How many gigabytes are you packing on your computer now? 80? 100?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Except I imagine nanites to be billions/trillions of self replicating (as long as there is fuel) "organisms" which will function in tandem to disassemble you. It would be fairly hard to create this product called nanites, but at least it doesn't break conservation of matter/energy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually my talk about the precision of Quantum Theory was regarding an earlier argument which stated that Quantum Theory was not a reliable theory. Don't assume I was referring entirely to your post or it will be I who will be saying that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics#Quantum_mechanics_and_classical_physics" target="_blank">you completely missed the point</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unarguably? Really? That's a strong word to use. I beg to differ. Besides, what you call 'breaking the laws of physics', I call fairly fundamental Quantum Theory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I would like to get a physicist here that would smack you with his knowledge of relativity and I would also like to get a quantum physicist who would look at you and make your head teleport, because that is what quantum physicists do, right? When laymen such as you and I get some data on quantum mechanics, we like to look at it and either go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a load of bull!". In actuality, both of these viewpoints are wrong.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course that can be explained away by saying that fades have piezoelectric muscles or some such substitute. Their cerebellum analog constantly adjusts an electromagnetic field by flexing the muscles preventing it from moving when it doesn't want to. Fades aren't aerodynamically stable after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*shrug* That theory is as good as any I suppose. No life on earth reacts that way, but neither is any life on earth composed of primarily 'air', so who knows what sort of abilities an alien life form might have.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will try to cut down on the ad hominem attacks, sorry. I shouldn't argue with what "teleportation" would look like, because the subject is irrelevant to me. Not a single person has successfully argued the plausibility of it after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No problem. It's just if you hadn't cut down on the attacks, I probably wouldn't have kept myself civil much longer either, and neither one of us wants that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The teleportation thing was really just speculative. If you are of a different opinion, I happily agree to disagree with you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, a paper isn't really 2 dimensional and neither is an ant. There is nothing we know of that is honestly 2 dimensional. There is no evidence that we can have a presence/influence other dimensions no matter how hard we want/try.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point. We just say paper is 2d because it's flat. Technically there's no such thing as 3-dimensional objects or 4-dimensional objects, et cetera. Everything is 10-dimensional (or so the theory goes) which encompasses any possible degree of freedom obtainable in this universe, including parallel dimensions and every possible universe imaginable (quite a mind bender if you ask me). However, the idea applies all the same. Even if the newspaper isn't 2d, you have to imagine a being which can perceive in only 2-dimensions. They wouldn't be able to perceive the newspaper bending. They'd only see an ant walk away from them and end up behind them (assuming the ant kept walking straight from one side of the newspaper to the other when you bent it).
The point that there is no evidence of influence/presence in other dimensions is irrelevant if you consider that we don't 'live' in another dimension than the newspaper you read. They exist whether you believe they do or not. From what I understand, time too is an illusion and is simply another dimension for which we cannot properly perceive. Most people accept that if it were possible to time travel, modifying the past will change the future. What most people don't seem to realize is that it works both ways. Modifying the future will modify the past. Though that's a bit more philosophical than this topic discussion will allow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except I imagine nanites to be billions/trillions of self replicating (as long as there is fuel) "organisms" which will function in tandem to disassemble you. It would be fairly hard to create this product called nanites, but at least it doesn't break conservation of matter/energy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're a ways off from nanites though I'm afraid. Besides, getting 'beamed' seems safer than being cut into small bite-sized pieces by tiny machines. I can't say with any certainty how far off we are from that, but I can already tell you that I will not be the first to try it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I would like to get a physicist here that would smack you with his knowledge of relativity and I would also like to get a quantum physicist who would look at you and make your head teleport, because that is what quantum physicists do, right? When laymen such as you and I get some data on quantum mechanics, we like to look at it and either go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a load of bull!". In actuality, both of these viewpoints are wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, figured out I was a layman, eh? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> I think physicists and quantum physicists are really not so different from us in that I'm sure they also go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a loud of bull!", except they probably think about it more often than us. That's what makes you a scientist in such a field, right? Passion?
Only difference between them and us is that we don't have a reputation to smash by throwing out wild theories. Funner to be a philosopher than a scientist, which I am proud to say that I am.
I need to first admit that I read a total of 2, maybe 3 posts in this thread. What I gathered from skimming was that there is a lot of arguments about Quantum mechanics. What I remember from High School (unfortunately, we weren't taught it) was that Quantum theory was basically about predicting where a given molecule/atom will be at any given second. I know thats not all there is to it, but being able to do so means quite a lot.
There's been the whole wormhole theory-ness thats been around for awhile. The shortest distance between two points is 0,0, that is, folding spacing, punching through from Point A to Point B. I can see this being instantaneously possible. In fact, it is instantly. The effect of folding space and 'punching' a whole through it may take a second or two, given the level technology TSA has at the time, but Going from Point (0,0) to Point(0,0) takes not time at all.
The Phase Gates, when powered, usually has all the floating wisps around the right? Perhaps it charging, folding space, in wait for someone to come along and punch a hole through. The amount of energy that would be required may be extreme but it may be next to nothing. And again, with their technological advancements, I don't think they'd have a problem with either.
I do like that they've chosen to give things a grimey 'aliens' feel to things. Most people associate the future with prosperity and luxurious living, but I think it would be far more industrious and hazardous. Perhaps high level technology exists, but only those with power and authority wield it. The phase gate deviants a little from this, but I don't mind. It's got to have a little sci-fi.
<!--quoteo(post=1687903:date=Sep 11 2008, 07:12 PM:name=Hawkeye)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hawkeye @ Sep 11 2008, 07:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*shrug* That theory is as good as any I suppose. No life on earth reacts that way, but neither is any life on earth composed of primarily 'air', so who knows what sort of abilities an alien life form might have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I actually envisioned them being made out of 80% helium. Or hydrogen if they are the cool inflamable kind.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The teleportation thing was really just speculative. If you are of a different opinion, I happily agree to disagree with you. Good point. We just say paper is 2d because it's flat. Technically there's no such thing as 3-dimensional objects or 4-dimensional objects, et cetera. Everything is 10-dimensional (or so the theory goes) which encompasses any possible degree of freedom obtainable in this universe, including parallel dimensions and every possible universe imaginable (quite a mind bender if you ask me). However, the idea applies all the same. Even if the newspaper isn't 2d, you have to imagine a being which can perceive in only 2-dimensions. They wouldn't be able to perceive the newspaper bending. They'd only see an ant walk away from them and end up behind them (assuming the ant kept walking straight from one side of the newspaper to the other when you bent it).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The superstring theory? I've been told that it isn't a theory because it can't be proven/disproven therefore it should be ignored. There aren't necessarily 10 dimensions in the universe and we can't really speculate about them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point that there is no evidence of influence/presence in other dimensions is irrelevant if you consider that we don't 'live' in another dimension than the newspaper you read. They exist whether you believe they do or not. From what I understand, time too is an illusion and is simply another dimension for which we cannot properly perceive. Most people accept that if it were possible to time travel, modifying the past will change the future. What most people don't seem to realize is that it works both ways. Modifying the future will modify the past. Though that's a bit more philosophical than this topic discussion will allow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My 2 theories: 1) We can bridge different time lines as soon as the first time machine is operational and we can cross from 2750 to 43820432 at will; not before the first time machine went up of course. 2) Time is a ray, not a line and can't be manipulated other than slowed/sped up - relatively to the observer of course.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're a ways off from nanites though I'm afraid. Besides, getting 'beamed' seems safer than being cut into small bite-sized pieces by tiny machines. I can't say with any certainty how far off we are from that, but I can already tell you that I will not be the first to try it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol "safety" has no place in a melee battle with the aliens. Neither side takes prisoners. Besides, I kind of think that being molecularly disassembled = death and being molecularly reassembled = clone. So the marine going through the phase gate actually dies.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, figured out I was a layman, eh? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> I think physicists and quantum physicists are really not so different from us in that I'm sure they also go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a loud of bull!", except they probably think about it more often than us. That's what makes you a scientist in such a field, right? Passion?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, thats not how it works at all. Physicists are more like 43279432x^20+432432y+73294243 = <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only difference between them and us is that we don't have a reputation to smash by throwing out wild theories. Funner to be a philosopher than a scientist, which I am proud to say that I am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is actually more fun to be the scientist because you get to bash the philosopher and tell him/her to get a real job because the philosopher picks up some out of context and insignificant finding and misinterprets it into teleportation and other such garbage. After all, philosopher = unemployed. (not a flame <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
<!--quoteo(post=1687936:date=Sep 12 2008, 04:55 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dalin Seivewright @ Sep 12 2008, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687936"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I need to first admit that I read a total of 2, maybe 3 posts in this thread. What I gathered from skimming was that there is a lot of arguments about Quantum mechanics. What I remember from High School (unfortunately, we weren't taught it) was that Quantum theory was basically about predicting where a given molecule/atom will be at any given second. I know thats not all there is to it, but being able to do so means quite a lot.
There's been the whole wormhole theory-ness thats been around for awhile. The shortest distance between two points is 0,0, that is, folding spacing, punching through from Point A to Point B. I can see this being instantaneously possible. In fact, it is instantly. The effect of folding space and 'punching' a whole through it may take a second or two, given the level technology TSA has at the time, but Going from Point (0,0) to Point(0,0) takes not time at all.
The Phase Gates, when powered, usually has all the floating wisps around the right? Perhaps it charging, folding space, in wait for someone to come along and punch a hole through. The amount of energy that would be required may be extreme but it may be next to nothing. And again, with their technological advancements, I don't think they'd have a problem with either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You see, the "walls" in physics aren't physical walls you can simply apply a little work to in order to punch a hole through. I'm sorry to crush your dreams, but we will never be able to interact with other dimensions simply because there can be no tools, physically, to do so. The concept of dimensions is simply there to explain a theory.
<!--quoteo(post=1687964:date=Sep 12 2008, 10:43 AM:name=Hawkeye)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hawkeye @ Sep 12 2008, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do like that they've chosen to give things a grimey 'aliens' feel to things. Most people associate the future with prosperity and luxurious living, but I think it would be far more industrious and hazardous. Perhaps high level technology exists, but only those with power and authority wield it. The phase gate deviants a little from this, but I don't mind. It's got to have a little sci-fi.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yuh!
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You see, the "walls" in physics aren't physical walls you can simply apply a little work to in order to punch a hole through. I'm sorry to crush your dreams, but we will never be able to interact with other dimensions simply because there can be no tools, physically, to do so. The concept of dimensions is simply there to explain a theory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what will you do if higgs-boson doesnt exist? delete all your posts related to physics? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1688160:date=Sep 15 2008, 06:20 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schimmel @ Sep 15 2008, 06:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688160"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what will you do if higgs-boson doesnt exist? delete all your posts related to physics? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sure that not having a higgs-boson will not suddenly break the universe. There can be many explanations for something, we just describe behavior.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1688239:date=Sep 16 2008, 07:18 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 16 2008, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sure that not having a higgs-boson will not suddenly break the universe. There can be many explanations for something, we just describe behavior.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1688356:date=Sep 18 2008, 12:33 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schimmel @ Sep 18 2008, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe fade is just hovering without flapping<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We only don't know stuff about isolated subatomic particles. We can explain them though. How do you explain "HOVARING WITHOUT FLAPING"?
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1686902:date=Aug 29 2008, 05:26 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Aug 29 2008, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, in a way, good Sci-Fi can entertain, but also help direct our creative applications of the latest technology.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is true..
<!--quoteo(post=1686907:date=Aug 29 2008, 07:42 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 07:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A) You have no idea what a scientific "theory" means then. If the theory of relativity is wrong, then EVERYTHING we know about the universe is wrong. This is simply not the case. In order for a "theory" to have any scientific weight, it has to have many experiments designed to disprove it, and they all have to fail under euclidean circumstances. A theory is more like 99.99999999999% certainty. There is no way around infinite energy requirements to move faster than speed of light and there is NO WAY you can claim this without being ridiculed in any scientific society.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is True..
<!--quoteo(post=1686912:date=Aug 29 2008, 08:15 PM:name=daidalos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daidalos @ Aug 29 2008, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not merely technology we are unable to develop yet, it goes far beyond onto the more philosophical, metaphysical level, that's what I always liked about science-fiction<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This Is True
<!--quoteo(post=1686925:date=Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the case of back-doors, yes they might be possible. But these back doors can't disrupt what we already do know about the laws. Nothing will violate relativity or the equal action-reaction principle for example.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This Is True
<!--quoteo(post=1686925:date=Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4) Everything has to make sense and would work as if you plugged the technology into our current world. So no ground armies without long range weapons. No space ships with deadly control panels strapped with plastic explosives which are the #1 cause of fatalities in combat. etc...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is not so True, but I get the humour <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Is this Off-Topic? I don't think so.....
Time is made up. It is a concept related purely to the Earth. It is an undisputed fact, that if you were to propel yourself away from the Earth in a straight line, fast enough, you could arrive back on Earth 40 years later, having only been travelling for 10 years. You would have only aged 10 years, while everyone on Earth, would have aged 40.
People often go down the route of saying that the faster you went, the shorter the time would be. They say eventually, if you were to go fast enough, you would go back in time. This is a fascinating theory, but that is just one small aspect of the greater Theories that could arrive from that very Theory of Relativity. I wish people would look at the other exciting alternatives that this could also bring.
This is my <b>'Theory of the Universe'</b>.
Time becomes slower the further from Earth you get. This is because time is actually a measure of movement through space relative to Earth.(Our Religions were lambasted for putting us at the centre of God's Universe, but it's alright for Science to put the Earth at the centre of the Universe? but i'm not going to go through that here.) There must come a point, far enough away from Earth where time no longer exists, where it has slowed down to the point of totally stopping. This is the end of the Universe, the edge of our Universe.
So the question is often asked, what lies at the end of our Universe?
Do you want to know?
Alright, I'll tell you...
If you were suddenly to zoom out of our Universe, by scrolling the mouse wheel down, so that you could see our Universe in it's entirety, about an inch round in the centre of your screen, you would realise that our entire Universe, is just a Neutron in a much larger Universe. If you zoom in many times inside our Universe, and get down to the Neutrons, then zoom into them, you will find everyone of them, is it's own Universe.
Science Fact or Fiction?
It's definitely not fantasy, because it is in the scientific realm, and fits entirely within the spectrum of the theory of relativity.
Yes it goes beyond the theory of relativity, much further beyond, but it stays within it's laws.
As our Universe is just a Neutron in another larger Universe, does the Theory of Relativity still hold there? Or if you shrink into the tiny Universes that we call Neutrons, does the Theory still hold there?
Even if we find the Theory of Relativity works in every Neutron, Does this mean the Universes known as Electrons are the same? As they have a different charge, they could be very different Universes with very Different 'Laws'.
Even if we accept the Theory of Relativity is present in the Electron Universes, and every other universe, whether up or down or sideways, there are many other factors to take into consideration. What happens when our universe, in it's charged state, is joined with another? What sort of things may occur then?
Blackholes? Simply this would be a point of connection between Universes, the Neutrons, Electrons and Protons, the differing polarised charges attracting to the point of connection, from both sides so all lines lead to the centre of the Black Hole. That's a basic piece of relativiy, called magnetism, and it is working with our Universe, as well as in the Universe.
Folds in the fabric of Space-Time? Highly likely when you consider we are constaltnly being bundled and banged together with other simarly or oppositely charged Universes. If these exist, then time travel is possible.
You call it Science Fiction, I call it Science Fact. It cannot be disproven, because it is within the bounds of relativity, and requires no additional laws or oversights, that some theories require you to believe.
Science Fiction, Fact and Fantasy are NOT seperate entities, you just perceive them to be. If you realise that the greatest scientific discoveries ever made, were made by tests not working as expected, the scientists going back with an open mind, and recording what actually happened, made startling changes to our pictures of the universe. Some of the most basic truths we now hold in science, were ridiculed when first discovered. The scientists knew what they discovered. Just because you can't see a way something fits into the universe, doesn't mean someone else out there can't.
You are all of course absolutely right, because that is what you want from the game. Unfortunately, the other people who await this game, are not you, and therefore, too have certain things they hope for.
I truly believe that within the laws of the Universe, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. People need to stop trying to put Humans at the top of the knowledge tree, and realise we are just a small part of an unbelievably big Universe, which is just a tiny Neutron in another Universe, and so on.
Remember the path goes up as well as down. It never ends.
Peace to you all
Andy
----EDIT------
Of course, when you realise the sheer insignificance of Humans, you realise their greatness at the same time. It also becomes blindingly obvious that 'Aliens' exist, and from this point forward shall be science fact.
What they look like is entirely up to you.
----EDIT EDIT -----
My theory is further strengthened by the fact that we know that Neutrons etc, are nearly completely empty space, with a tiny percentage of matter, that is energy operating at a 'lower' frequency than the 'space' between.
Compare that to our own Universe, nearly all empty space, with a tiny percentage of matter (planets, suns etc) floating about in it.
Comments
The battle between the Khaara and Man is not just the skirmish you encounter in each map... It is a huge struggle on many space stations, planets. The Millitary is spread accross all known space fighting the Khaara as they appear in pockets accross the galaxy. By the way the at the start of each game the Khaara only start with one hive and basic life forms we must Presume that they have recentyl arrive and are thus only a small pocket. The Millitary would not send in elite troops with very advanced and expensive equipment to a small pocket of infestation. However as the Khaara give more and more resistance the Commander is able to requisition more and more equipment to destory the Khaara.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After seeing how hard it is to fight the aliens on the ground and thinking about how simple it'd be to win if you just had a SLIGHT advantage in the form of HMGs/shotguns and HA/Jetpacks from the start. I think the TSA would honestly start equipping marines with that stuff from the start. My explanation still wins.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Blink reminds me of the Barracuda as it can do bursts <a href="http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/gallery/descript/GreatBarracuda/GreatBarracuda.html" target="_blank"> as fast as 36 mph (58 kph)</a> when they go to strike prey... Ive seen this and it as though the fish is just a blur until it stops again also consider that water is ALOT denser than air... I think the possiblity is there...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair point, what mechanism does the fade use to move through the air though? Jet propulsion?
How can these sensations be felt in space if you are weightless in space? Please consider yourself a physics teacher for a moment ^^. I have already confessed not knowing much about physics... help me out. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1686942:date=Aug 29 2008, 11:42 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 11:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gravity is a distortion of space, although it should be explained as a force acting on you. Acceleration is the change in velocity. Whether you go up or down on a roller coaster, the centripetal acceleration due to gravity (g) always remains constant, what changes is the acceleration (a). The constant acceleration due to gravity is ~9.8m/s^2. <b>Acceleration as you know, is constantly added to your velocity until you either hit terminal velocity in atmosphere, or the speed of light in a vacuum. [that line is not actually true--Kero]</b>
Gravity is one force which constantly accelerates you by 9.8m/s^2. Do you know another force which can accelerate you faster than 9.8m/s^2? I know one! Jet propulsion. What do you think 10gs of force means? it means 10 of 9.8m/s^2 worth of acceleration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did this explanation tell you everything you needed, wankalot? If not I might be able to help clarify it.
Gravity is a very unique force, in that it is impossible to actually feel. Gravity acts on all parts of you equally, accelerating your entire body through space together, so you don't notice a change. (Exception -- Tidal forces can change this slightly, but those are rare enough that we can ignore them for now.) What you normally DO feel is the force of the ground or your chair pushing UP on you, coincidentally by the same amount as the force of gravity most of the time, except this force is all concentrated near your feet. This time you can feel it because your feet are being pushed up towards the rest of your body, and so you feel compressed. Since we normally walk around every day being compressed by 1 G worth of force, that feels normal to us, and so we feel weird coming down the slope of that rollercoaster when w are compressed by much less force, possibly as little as 0 in freefall.
Now, how does this relate to space travel? Most spaceships have a large engine strapped on to the back, and the ship moves by turning on the engine. But the engine doesn't affect the entire ship directly, the engine works by pushing real hard against the part of the ship closest to it, which then pushes real hard on the next part of the ship, and so on until we reach the pilots chair. When the Engine is off, you are correct that the pilot feels no Gs at all. He is weightless. But when the Engine is turned on, the pilot is only going to keep moving at the same speed as the rest of the ship because the Pilot's chair is now pushing real hard on his back. Even though the force of gravity on the pilot is still almost nothing, he now feels quite a bit of weight, because the chair pushing on him now is basically the same force he felt every day on Earth whenever he sat down.
So the last question is, how HARD does the chair push against the pilot? If it pushes more than about 10 times harder than the pilot's chair did back home on earth ("10 Gs"), he's going to black out from the pressure. But if it pushes less than 10 times harder, that means the ship is not going to reach distant star systems any time soon. This is the point of unrealism that Anytime brought up originally.
Edit: I can't believe it actually censored wankalot's name. >.>
The battle between the Khaara and Man is not just the skirmish you encounter in each map... It is a huge struggle on many space stations, planets. The Millitary is spread accross all known space fighting the Khaara as they appear in pockets accross the galaxy. <b>By the way the at the start of each game the Khaara only start with one hive and basic life forms we must Presume that they have recentyl arrive and are thus only a small pocket. </b>The Millitary would not send in elite troops with very advanced and expensive equipment to a small pocket of infestation. However as the Khaara give more and more resistance the Commander is able to requisition more and more equipment to destory the Khaara.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting thing that point, it makes me wonder where all the civilians got off to, in a infection incursion is only "recent" - though of course, recent is a relative term.
Still, I like to think the Kharaa hibernate till the Marine's show up and only use energy and resources as a response to them showing up. The Kharaa infection is basicly a bunch of shape shifters, IMHO.
The part of the story that I feel needs explanation is that if what was before was the first encounter of a sorts and this is now a recognized all out war, why don't the humans atomize targets from orbit? Oh, nevermind, I just thought of a reason, the human race would be constantly torching their own resources and the Kharaa would just keep trucking through the stars unabated.
Actually, how do the Kharaa truck through the stars? Do they launch themselves as spore encased in asteroids or something? Can they communicate and coordinate over stellar distances? Are new infections autonomous? Does the "blink" and "cloak" of the Kharaa indicate that they have discovered other methods of spore dispersion and communication? Does it use the same forces of nature that Marines do to phase and portal as well?
Good questions? We've been bugging around the TSA and their FTL travel, phasegate quantum stuff - but how do the kharaa get around?
From what I can understand the distance between planets within a single solar system is months of travel at conventional methods. If this limitation applied to a non-technology based life form we could expect a simple isolation of the kharaa within a specific solar system. (Not to mention the problem of solar winds, radiation, the vacuum of space, the minus 270 odd deg C that comes with space travel.)
Possible solution:
Other non-combat evolutions.
If this were the case then it would be completely feasible that the kharaa were amassing the nurtients from the nano-sludge for an uber-huge evolve that would allow something like dimensional travel or FTL or blink tavel etc. Maybe a giant cannon that fires an Onos with a fade stuck to its butt for extra propulsion.
This would also be a neat solution as to why the aliens only have one hive going when the marines arive - they need the rez for the big morph.
What would be scary is the aliens being able to learn in a certain type of form. A form intelligent enough to start self modification at a genetic level. This would allow a custom build of an insterstellar form capable of spreading the alien DNA. Note that the amount of info stored on normal human DNA is vast - enough to fill 100 gig hard drives stacked up to the moon (or some such impressive example). That amount of info storage would be plenty if they could modify their storage info.
So what do you think - should the kharaa have anything other than their standard combat forms? And if they have an interstellar travel form should it be a giant cannon, a mass of blinking spores (wow - that sounds like a pirate cursing) or some other weird morph?
You're assuming the Kharaa have infinite resources to send stuff through the stars. That is ridiculous to think about, do you know how much energy it takes to simply resist gravitational forces? It'd make plenty of sense if the Kharaa are a biological weapon which was used by some state on the Mongols, but then it spiraled out of control. That would mean that the Kharaa don't have that far to travel between systems.
When did I assume that? A single planet can have lots of resources - now toss in any number of them the Kharaa infection has made it to.
Besides, we already know they have made it out of gravity wells, Marines are fighting them on space stations and ships, so once they have passed that hurdle, now they can use gravity to their advantage to sling around solar systems.
If the shape shifters were a bio weapon went wrong, where is the Achilles Heel that the designers of the shape shifting infection would have designed in? Surely there are far more simple bio weapons that could be used than something with the ability to evolve on micro and macro at incredible rates. Nah, I much prefer the notion that while exploring the stars, humans inadvertently bumped into the Kharaa, tried to declare the place a no fly zone while they cleaned up but discovered they had far underestimated the level Kharaa were already on and now its interstellar war where the stakes couldn't be higher.
Still, I like to think the Kharaa hibernate till the Marine's show up and only use energy and resources as a response to them showing up. The Kharaa infection is basicly a bunch of shape shifters, IMHO.
The part of the story that I feel needs explanation is that if what was before was the first encounter of a sorts and this is now a recognized all out war, why don't the humans atomize targets from orbit? Oh, nevermind, I just thought of a reason, the human race would be constantly torching their own resources and the Kharaa would just keep trucking through the stars unabated.
Actually, how do the Kharaa truck through the stars? Do they launch themselves as spore encased in asteroids or something? Can they communicate and coordinate over stellar distances? Are new infections autonomous? Does the "blink" and "cloak" of the Kharaa indicate that they have discovered other methods of spore dispersion and communication? Does it use the same forces of nature that Marines do to phase and portal as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1687429:date=Sep 5 2008, 09:44 AM:name=Disco Stu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Disco Stu @ Sep 5 2008, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good questions? We've been bugging around the TSA and their FTL travel, phasegate quantum stuff - but how do the kharaa get around?
From what I can understand the distance between planets within a single solar system is months of travel at conventional methods. If this limitation applied to a non-technology based life form we could expect a simple isolation of the kharaa within a specific solar system. (Not to mention the problem of solar winds, radiation, the vacuum of space, the minus 270 odd deg C that comes with space travel.)
Possible solution:
Other non-combat evolutions.
If this were the case then it would be completely feasible that the kharaa were amassing the nurtients from the nano-sludge for an uber-huge evolve that would allow something like dimensional travel or FTL or blink tavel etc. Maybe a giant cannon that fires an Onos with a fade stuck to its butt for extra propulsion.
This would also be a neat solution as to why the aliens only have one hive going when the marines arive - they need the rez for the big morph.
What would be scary is the aliens being able to learn in a certain type of form. A form intelligent enough to start self modification at a genetic level. This would allow a custom build of an insterstellar form capable of spreading the alien DNA. Note that the amount of info stored on normal human DNA is vast - enough to fill 100 gig hard drives stacked up to the moon (or some such impressive example). That amount of info storage would be plenty if they could modify their storage info.
So what do you think - should the kharaa have anything other than their standard combat forms? And if they have an interstellar travel form should it be a giant cannon, a mass of blinking spores (wow - that sounds like a pirate cursing) or some other weird morph?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or that the khaara have just landed, say in a comet that collides with a planet or maybe even just in a huge sphere of bacteria that has been launched through space, when it comes in contact with a human space station it recieves heat through the pipes excetra that it laches onto, this revives the bacteria from stasis and it "chews" through the outside into the inside of the space station where it produces scout organisms "skulks" and then the final mass of bacteria becomes a hive...
<!--quoteo(post=1687375:date=Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After seeing how hard it is to fight the aliens on the ground and thinking about how simple it'd be to win if you just had a SLIGHT advantage in the form of HMGs/shotguns and HA/Jetpacks from the start. I think the TSA would honestly start equipping marines with that stuff from the start. My explanation still wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This explanation would fit in well with my original back story fixing the discrepancys that your have found because if the Khaara landed on comets or balls of bacteria the TSA would not be certain whether the object that collided with a planet or space station was active or not. Assuming the war is a throughout the known galaxy we would also presume that comits and unidentified projectiles would appear very frequently from unidentified space and alot of them would be completly inocent pieces of rock or maybe Khaara bacteria that is still dormant when discovered by the TSA force...
This would mean that there is no garentee that the unidentified projectile the TSA are sent to identify is even going to be hostile and that if out of every 10,000 unidentified objects they search in a standard earth year only 400 have any Khaara on them at all with only 100 of them being active and hostile. It makes no sence to waste such a huge ammount of equipment on every single search.
<!--quoteo(post=1687375:date=Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 4 2008, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fair point, what mechanism does the fade use to move through the air though? Jet propulsion?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why does it have to be explained? Can it not be left alone and just presume that it is possible... Why does it have to be explained?
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere</a>
Dyson sphere a huge energy capure sphere around a sun to harness all of its thermal energy...
+ as canadian says the Khaara are already in space...
It has to be explained b/c it is science fiction, not fantasy. Read the thread dude.
<!--quoteo(post=1687456:date=Sep 5 2008, 03:48 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PsympleJester @ Sep 5 2008, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687456"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere</a>
Dyson sphere a huge energy capure sphere around a sun to harness all of its thermal energy...
+ as canadian says the Khaara are already in space...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you saying that the Kharaa have the resources AND the engineering skills (lol, so far they haven't demonstrated any at all) to build a Dyson sphere? If so, humans should just F4 out of existence. Dyson spheres are pretty impossible to build in any <b>reasonable</b> amount of time (not anywhere in the near 5,000 years), plus there are better ways of collecting energy such as ram-scooping gas giants.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Besides, we already know they have made it out of gravity wells, Marines are fighting them on space stations and ships, so once they have passed that hurdle, now they can use gravity to their advantage to sling around solar systems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because the spores defeated one gravity well, doesn't mean that they can defeat multiple. I just don't see spores having too much reaction mass they can use to adjust trajectory. The best scientific bet is that the aliens use some kind of ground based launch platforms, like the bugs in starship troopers. I'm assuming the TSA has already found where the aliens are doing this from and launched a whole bunch of nukes in their general direction.
maybe fade has some organ that creates magnetic fields or something? Just an intension
Ok how about like the baracuda swims through water the fade has evolved to be almost lighter than atmosphere allowing it to actualy "swim" through air... This would mean that aslong as there is some prepulsion from the fade it would glide through the air as it does, this could be done by it having some sort of part of its body that sucks air through and fires it out the back (no not its arse... we cannot say the fade flys by farting.) as sort of as you suggested jet propulsion, while doing this it would use its claws as a rudder of sorts.
<!--quoteo(post=1687482:date=Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you saying that the Kharaa have the resources AND the engineering skills (lol, so far they haven't demonstrated any at all) to build a Dyson sphere? If so, humans should just F4 out of existence. Dyson spheres are pretty impossible to build in any <b>reasonable</b> amount of time (not anywhere in the near 5,000 years), plus there are better ways of collecting energy such as ram-scooping gas giants.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was considering more that because they are bacteria forms that have been able to make it into outer space...
Assuming khaara bacteria photosynthasises even getting just a small ammount of the bacteria to orbit around the sun they can use the photosynthesised energy to and harvest dust from space to reproduce... Then from this orbitting "breeding ground" they could eventualy allow pieces to break off which would float through space as exploration and invasion forces.
This would mean the khaara literally leach from the life source of the universe...
(the sun, I know black hole are beguining to be considered the life of the universe but the sun is the well known one...)
<!--quoteo(post=1687482:date=Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because the spores defeated one gravity well, doesn't mean that they can defeat multiple. I just don't see spores having too much reaction mass they can use to adjust trajectory. The best scientific bet is that the aliens use some kind of ground based launch platforms, like the bugs in starship troopers. I'm assuming the TSA has already found where the aliens are doing this from and launched a whole bunch of nukes in their general direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1687482:date=Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Sep 6 2008, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you saying that the Kharaa have the resources AND the engineering skills (lol, so far they haven't demonstrated any at all)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oxymoronic statements?
Or are you referring to the movie?
maybe fade has some organ that creates magnetic fields or something? Just an intension<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought the original idea behind blink was that it was a form of biological teleportation, they "blinked" in and out of our dimension kinda like going back and fourth between xen and black mesa. This is why I hate the new fade blink where they fly around the map, see my topic in the ideas section "bring back insta blink"
lets just wait until test results of LHC are ready (in 2 years? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />). Then our knowledge maybe allows more
science based possible explanations of fade blink and phase gates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The hive is a huge database which manipulates genetic information of all lifeforms etc... So the hive actually designs the fade to work in the human environment of 1atm and with metallic surfaces covering 99% of the terrain. The fade is actually made out of something like 90% lighter than air gas so it is only very slightly heavier than air. It propels itself by some electromagnetic function.
Now you might think, hey the fade is mostly porous so it must be paper right? Wrong. First of all, it has an exoskeleton which is probably made out of some cool stuff. Second of all, since its mostly gas, there is going to be no hydrostatic shock! The bullets will just go straight through without doing much damage at all. The fade can quickly pick bacteria out of the air to replace the cells it loses and has means of regenerating the lighter than air gas. Even though there is no hydrostatic shock, the fade has one obvious weakness. 00 buckshot. GG.
<lameargument>
I'll refrain from the whole "It's just a game" argument here. But I will add that people play the game for an escape. It's a way to get out of your own life and into the lives of the Kharaa / Humans in crisis. At that point, does it <i>really</i> have to be realistic? Do you realize you're only playing a game when something 'unbelievable' happens in the game like teleportation? I honestly can't understand how something like teleportation would remind you you're playing a game, but shooting aliens on a foriegn planet won't.
</lameargument>
With that said, I should add that though nobody has ever seen someone pass through a wormhole, I'd imagine it would look much different than it does in the movies. In all likelihood, seeing through a wormhole would look a bit like having a weak magnifying glass held up to your face. Where the magnification is, it would simply look closer than it would otherwise.
From an outside point of view, the entire length of the wormhole would look completely normal. Someone passing through the wormhole would appear to be moving very fast (and perhaps even a little stretched) even if technically that person was merely walking through. So that seems fairly consistent with what fades do now (aside from the stretching part). Only thing that isn't consistent is how it would look for the fade before jumping.
I don't think phase pads for humans would really work like that. That seems to fit the whole 'teleportation' bit, which is to say all molecules are ripped from you piece by piece and reassembled on the other side. As far as science fiction is concerned, that's about as far away from realistic as you can get. The far more likely scenario and what scientists are currently trying to do with quantum theory is to bend the 4th dimension so that 3-dimensional objects can warp there (according to theory, you always have to use the next-highest dimension. This is relative to bending a newspaper so that both ends meet. It is technically a 2-dimensional object , but you use 3 dimensions to create a gateway that wasn't previously there. Imagine this, but for 3-dimensional objects instead of 2). Despite what common knowledge might suggest, we're far closer to achieving this than the alternative method.
I should add for any discrepancy on Quantum Theory that it *is* the single most accurate theory commonly accepted by scientists today. Even the theory of relativity pales by comparison. It may not make sense, but it is incredibly accurate model of the universe. If I'm not mistaken, they've already managed to 'teleport' an atom from one room to another in a controlled laboratory using fundamental Quantum Theory principles. They're currently working on molecule transportation.
The fade is not a balloon much like a human is not a tub of water, even though humans are mostly water.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><lameargument>
I'll refrain from the whole "It's just a game" argument here. But I will add that people play the game for an escape. It's a way to get out of your own life and into the lives of the Kharaa / Humans in crisis. At that point, does it <i>really</i> have to be realistic? Do you realize you're only playing a game when something 'unbelievable' happens in the game like teleportation? I honestly can't understand how something like teleportation would remind you you're playing a game, but shooting aliens on a foriegn planet won't.
</lameargument><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh trust me, I could care less about escapism and this so called "immersion". I can tell the difference between an image displayed by a computer monitor and real life well enough. But this isn't about that. This is about most science fiction writers/game developers coming up with COMPLETE drivel such as teleportation and >c travel. This can certainly be avoided. There is no "science" in their fiction and that ticks me off.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With that said, I should add that though nobody has ever seen someone pass through a wormhole, I'd imagine it would look much different than it does in the movies. In all likelihood, seeing through a wormhole would look a bit like having a weak magnifying glass held up to your face. Where the magnification is, it would simply look closer than it would otherwise.
From an outside point of view, the entire length of the wormhole would look completely normal. Someone passing through the wormhole would appear to be moving very fast (and perhaps even a little stretched) even if technically that person was merely walking through. So that seems fairly consistent with what fades do now (aside from the stretching part). Only thing that isn't consistent is how it would look for the fade before jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem here is that you take the concept of wormholes for granted, Hollywood did a wonderful job raising you to be an aspiring pseudoscientist.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think phase pads for humans would really work like that. That seems to fit the whole 'teleportation' bit, which is to say all molecules are ripped from you piece by piece and reassembled on the other side. As far as science fiction is concerned, that's about as far away from realistic as you can get. The far more likely scenario and what scientists are currently trying to do with quantum theory is to bend the 4th dimension so that 3-dimensional objects can warp there (according to theory, you always have to use the next-highest dimension. This is relative to bending a newspaper so that both ends meet. It is technically a 2-dimensional object , but you use 3 dimensions to create a gateway that wasn't previously there. Imagine this, but for 3-dimensional objects instead of 2). Despite what common knowledge might suggest, we're far closer to achieving this than the alternative method.
I should add for any discrepancy on Quantum Theory that it *is* the single most accurate theory commonly accepted by scientists today. Even the theory of relativity pales by comparison. It may not make sense, but it is incredibly accurate model of the universe. If I'm not mistaken, they've already managed to 'teleport' an atom from one room to another in a controlled laboratory using fundamental Quantum Theory principles. They're currently working on molecule transportation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A) Interacting with the 4th or 5th dimensions? How exactly would you go about doing this? Explain in detail or concede due to not knowing what you're talking about.
B) Quantum Theory isn't argued in the scientific community, but that doesn't mean you can get away with saying PHASE GATES WORK DUE TO MASSIVE WORM HOLES CREATED BY QUANTUM THEORY. If you don't have a quantum physics degree, again, you should not talk about quantum physics at all because the chances are, you completely missed the point.
C) You don't understand. Disassembling and reassembling something molecule by molecule is unarguably easier than making something break the laws of physics.
This is the quantum engineering point: -> .
o <-This is you missing the point.
You don't see fades thrown across the room when hit with a shotgun round. Perhaps that's because there's a 'realism' issue that needs to be worked out or maybe not. I'm willing to put my money on the fact that the fade is not a balloon, but that's just me.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem here is that you take the concept of wormholes for granted, Hollywood did a wonderful job raising you to be an aspiring pseudoscientist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's merely logical. If it were possible to connect two points in 3d space and walk through it, that's what it would look like. I didn't share it just to get insulted by one who disagrees with my theory. Rather, I didn't share it to those with mouths and no ears. For a change rather than vomiting insults when you read something you disagree with, why don't you try not making baseless attacks?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A) Interacting with the 4th or 5th dimensions? How exactly would you go about doing this? Explain in detail or concede due to not knowing what you're talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you were an ant, life would seem pretty flat I imagine. Suppose for a second that this ant is a 2-dimensional creature. If it were walking on a newspaper and reached the edge, there'd be no place to go. However, if you wrapped the newspaper to make both edges meet, the ant could continue to walk on the opposite side of the newspaper with little or no energy involved. To an observer in the 2nd dimension, the ant simply vanished and reappeared on the opposite side and to the ant, it is as if nothing happened at all, though being 3-dimensional creatures ourselves, we know better. The theory is that you can travel to varying points in 3d space by using the 4th dimension, much like connecting the ends of the newspaper allowed the ant to travel from one edge to the other. Similarly, you could move from any point in 4d space using the 5th dimension (moving through both space and time). Us being 3 dimensional beings, it would seem as if someone disappeared and reappeared somewhere else. We simply lack the understanding more than lacking the technology. The metaphor with the ant is a far easier concept to grasp because our perception is limited to 3d space. For all intents and purposes, there's no reason to believe it would take so much energy to do it either.
This is also the reason why I say the 'gateway' teleportation idea is a far closer reality than getting torn apart bit by bit and reassembled. Assuming we even knew how to do that, what computer is going to have enough memory to know the exact contents and positions of every molecule in your entire body? To record the coordinates of every atom in your body alone (assuming it took 8 bytes) would be something on the order of 5.215 * 10^19 GB (there are approximately 7 * 10^27 atoms in the human body). How many gigabytes are you packing on your computer now? 80? 100?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B) Quantum Theory isn't argued in the scientific community, but that doesn't mean you can get away with saying PHASE GATES WORK DUE TO MASSIVE WORM HOLES CREATED BY QUANTUM THEORY. If you don't have a quantum physics degree, again, you should not talk about quantum physics at all because the chances are, you completely missed the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually my talk about the precision of Quantum Theory was regarding an earlier argument which stated that Quantum Theory was not a reliable theory. Don't assume I was referring entirely to your post or it will be I who will be saying that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics#Quantum_mechanics_and_classical_physics" target="_blank">you completely missed the point</a>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->C) You don't understand. Disassembling and reassembling something molecule by molecule is unarguably easier than making something break the laws of physics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unarguably? Really? That's a strong word to use. I beg to differ.
Besides, what you call 'breaking the laws of physics', I call fairly fundamental Quantum Theory.
Of course that can be explained away by saying that fades have piezoelectric muscles or some such substitute. Their cerebellum analog constantly adjusts an electromagnetic field by flexing the muscles preventing it from moving when it doesn't want to. Fades aren't aerodynamically stable after all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's merely logical. If it were possible to connect two points in 3d space and walk through it, that's what it would look like. I didn't share it just to get insulted by one who disagrees with my theory. Rather, I didn't share it to those with mouths and no ears. For a change rather than vomiting insults when you read something you disagree with, why don't you try not making baseless attacks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will try to cut down on the ad hominem attacks, sorry. I shouldn't argue with what "teleportation" would look like, because the subject is irrelevant to me. Not a single person has successfully argued the plausibility of it after all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you were an ant, life would seem pretty flat I imagine. Suppose for a second that this ant is a 2-dimensional creature. If it were walking on a newspaper and reached the edge, there'd be no place to go. However, if you wrapped the newspaper to make both edges meet, the ant could continue to walk on the opposite side of the newspaper with little or no energy involved. To an observer in the 2nd dimension, the ant simply vanished and reappeared on the opposite side and to the ant, it is as if nothing happened at all, though being 3-dimensional creatures ourselves, we know better. The theory is that you can travel to varying points in 3d space by using the 4th dimension, much like connecting the ends of the newspaper allowed the ant to travel from one edge to the other. Similarly, you could move from any point in 4d space using the 5th dimension (moving through both space and time). Us being 3 dimensional beings, it would seem as if someone disappeared and reappeared somewhere else. We simply lack the understanding more than lacking the technology. The metaphor with the ant is a far easier concept to grasp because our perception is limited to 3d space. For all intents and purposes, there's no reason to believe it would take so much energy to do it either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, a paper isn't really 2 dimensional and neither is an ant. There is nothing we know of that is honestly 2 dimensional. There is no evidence that we can have a presence/influence other dimensions no matter how hard we want/try.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is also the reason why I say the 'gateway' teleportation idea is a far closer reality than getting torn apart bit by bit and reassembled. Assuming we even knew how to do that, what computer is going to have enough memory to know the exact contents and positions of every molecule in your entire body? To record the coordinates of every atom in your body alone (assuming it took 8 bytes) would be something on the order of 5.215 * 10^19 GB (there are approximately 7 * 10^27 atoms in the human body). How many gigabytes are you packing on your computer now? 80? 100?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except I imagine nanites to be billions/trillions of self replicating (as long as there is fuel) "organisms" which will function in tandem to disassemble you. It would be fairly hard to create this product called nanites, but at least it doesn't break conservation of matter/energy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually my talk about the precision of Quantum Theory was regarding an earlier argument which stated that Quantum Theory was not a reliable theory. Don't assume I was referring entirely to your post or it will be I who will be saying that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics#Quantum_mechanics_and_classical_physics" target="_blank">you completely missed the point</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unarguably? Really? That's a strong word to use. I beg to differ.
Besides, what you call 'breaking the laws of physics', I call fairly fundamental Quantum Theory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I would like to get a physicist here that would smack you with his knowledge of relativity and I would also like to get a quantum physicist who would look at you and make your head teleport, because that is what quantum physicists do, right? When laymen such as you and I get some data on quantum mechanics, we like to look at it and either go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a load of bull!". In actuality, both of these viewpoints are wrong.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<i>Edited for grammar etc...</i>
*shrug* That theory is as good as any I suppose. No life on earth reacts that way, but neither is any life on earth composed of primarily 'air', so who knows what sort of abilities an alien life form might have.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will try to cut down on the ad hominem attacks, sorry. I shouldn't argue with what "teleportation" would look like, because the subject is irrelevant to me. Not a single person has successfully argued the plausibility of it after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No problem. It's just if you hadn't cut down on the attacks, I probably wouldn't have kept myself civil much longer either, and neither one of us wants that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The teleportation thing was really just speculative. If you are of a different opinion, I happily agree to disagree with you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, a paper isn't really 2 dimensional and neither is an ant. There is nothing we know of that is honestly 2 dimensional. There is no evidence that we can have a presence/influence other dimensions no matter how hard we want/try.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point. We just say paper is 2d because it's flat. Technically there's no such thing as 3-dimensional objects or 4-dimensional objects, et cetera. Everything is 10-dimensional (or so the theory goes) which encompasses any possible degree of freedom obtainable in this universe, including parallel dimensions and every possible universe imaginable (quite a mind bender if you ask me). However, the idea applies all the same. Even if the newspaper isn't 2d, you have to imagine a being which can perceive in only 2-dimensions. They wouldn't be able to perceive the newspaper bending. They'd only see an ant walk away from them and end up behind them (assuming the ant kept walking straight from one side of the newspaper to the other when you bent it).
The point that there is no evidence of influence/presence in other dimensions is irrelevant if you consider that we don't 'live' in another dimension than the newspaper you read. They exist whether you believe they do or not. From what I understand, time too is an illusion and is simply another dimension for which we cannot properly perceive. Most people accept that if it were possible to time travel, modifying the past will change the future. What most people don't seem to realize is that it works both ways. Modifying the future will modify the past. Though that's a bit more philosophical than this topic discussion will allow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except I imagine nanites to be billions/trillions of self replicating (as long as there is fuel) "organisms" which will function in tandem to disassemble you. It would be fairly hard to create this product called nanites, but at least it doesn't break conservation of matter/energy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're a ways off from nanites though I'm afraid. Besides, getting 'beamed' seems safer than being cut into small bite-sized pieces by tiny machines. I can't say with any certainty how far off we are from that, but I can already tell you that I will not be the first to try it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I would like to get a physicist here that would smack you with his knowledge of relativity and I would also like to get a quantum physicist who would look at you and make your head teleport, because that is what quantum physicists do, right? When laymen such as you and I get some data on quantum mechanics, we like to look at it and either go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a load of bull!". In actuality, both of these viewpoints are wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, figured out I was a layman, eh? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
I think physicists and quantum physicists are really not so different from us in that I'm sure they also go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a loud of bull!", except they probably think about it more often than us. That's what makes you a scientist in such a field, right? Passion?
Only difference between them and us is that we don't have a reputation to smash by throwing out wild theories. Funner to be a philosopher than a scientist, which I am proud to say that I am.
There's been the whole wormhole theory-ness thats been around for awhile. The shortest distance between two points is 0,0, that is, folding spacing, punching through from Point A to Point B. I can see this being instantaneously possible. In fact, it is instantly. The effect of folding space and 'punching' a whole through it may take a second or two, given the level technology TSA has at the time, but Going from Point (0,0) to Point(0,0) takes not time at all.
The Phase Gates, when powered, usually has all the floating wisps around the right? Perhaps it charging, folding space, in wait for someone to come along and punch a hole through. The amount of energy that would be required may be extreme but it may be next to nothing. And again, with their technological advancements, I don't think they'd have a problem with either.
I actually envisioned them being made out of 80% helium. Or hydrogen if they are the cool inflamable kind.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The teleportation thing was really just speculative. If you are of a different opinion, I happily agree to disagree with you.
Good point. We just say paper is 2d because it's flat. Technically there's no such thing as 3-dimensional objects or 4-dimensional objects, et cetera. Everything is 10-dimensional (or so the theory goes) which encompasses any possible degree of freedom obtainable in this universe, including parallel dimensions and every possible universe imaginable (quite a mind bender if you ask me). However, the idea applies all the same. Even if the newspaper isn't 2d, you have to imagine a being which can perceive in only 2-dimensions. They wouldn't be able to perceive the newspaper bending. They'd only see an ant walk away from them and end up behind them (assuming the ant kept walking straight from one side of the newspaper to the other when you bent it).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The superstring theory? I've been told that it isn't a theory because it can't be proven/disproven therefore it should be ignored. There aren't necessarily 10 dimensions in the universe and we can't really speculate about them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point that there is no evidence of influence/presence in other dimensions is irrelevant if you consider that we don't 'live' in another dimension than the newspaper you read. They exist whether you believe they do or not. From what I understand, time too is an illusion and is simply another dimension for which we cannot properly perceive. Most people accept that if it were possible to time travel, modifying the past will change the future. What most people don't seem to realize is that it works both ways. Modifying the future will modify the past. Though that's a bit more philosophical than this topic discussion will allow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My 2 theories:
1) We can bridge different time lines as soon as the first time machine is operational and we can cross from 2750 to 43820432 at will; not before the first time machine went up of course.
2) Time is a ray, not a line and can't be manipulated other than slowed/sped up - relatively to the observer of course.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're a ways off from nanites though I'm afraid. Besides, getting 'beamed' seems safer than being cut into small bite-sized pieces by tiny machines. I can't say with any certainty how far off we are from that, but I can already tell you that I will not be the first to try it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol "safety" has no place in a melee battle with the aliens. Neither side takes prisoners. Besides, I kind of think that being molecularly disassembled = death and being molecularly reassembled = clone. So the marine going through the phase gate actually dies.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, figured out I was a layman, eh? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
I think physicists and quantum physicists are really not so different from us in that I'm sure they also go "wow whooo teleportation and stuff cool" or "what a loud of bull!", except they probably think about it more often than us. That's what makes you a scientist in such a field, right? Passion?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, thats not how it works at all. Physicists are more like 43279432x^20+432432y+73294243 = <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only difference between them and us is that we don't have a reputation to smash by throwing out wild theories. Funner to be a philosopher than a scientist, which I am proud to say that I am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is actually more fun to be the scientist because you get to bash the philosopher and tell him/her to get a real job because the philosopher picks up some out of context and insignificant finding and misinterprets it into teleportation and other such garbage. After all, philosopher = unemployed. (not a flame <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
<!--quoteo(post=1687936:date=Sep 12 2008, 04:55 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dalin Seivewright @ Sep 12 2008, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687936"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I need to first admit that I read a total of 2, maybe 3 posts in this thread. What I gathered from skimming was that there is a lot of arguments about Quantum mechanics. What I remember from High School (unfortunately, we weren't taught it) was that Quantum theory was basically about predicting where a given molecule/atom will be at any given second. I know thats not all there is to it, but being able to do so means quite a lot.
There's been the whole wormhole theory-ness thats been around for awhile. The shortest distance between two points is 0,0, that is, folding spacing, punching through from Point A to Point B. I can see this being instantaneously possible. In fact, it is instantly. The effect of folding space and 'punching' a whole through it may take a second or two, given the level technology TSA has at the time, but Going from Point (0,0) to Point(0,0) takes not time at all.
The Phase Gates, when powered, usually has all the floating wisps around the right? Perhaps it charging, folding space, in wait for someone to come along and punch a hole through. The amount of energy that would be required may be extreme but it may be next to nothing. And again, with their technological advancements, I don't think they'd have a problem with either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You see, the "walls" in physics aren't physical walls you can simply apply a little work to in order to punch a hole through. I'm sorry to crush your dreams, but we will never be able to interact with other dimensions simply because there can be no tools, physically, to do so. The concept of dimensions is simply there to explain a theory.
<!--quoteo(post=1687964:date=Sep 12 2008, 10:43 AM:name=Hawkeye)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hawkeye @ Sep 12 2008, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do like that they've chosen to give things a grimey 'aliens' feel to things. Most people associate the future with prosperity and luxurious living, but I think it would be far more industrious and hazardous. Perhaps high level technology exists, but only those with power and authority wield it. The phase gate deviants a little from this, but I don't mind. It's got to have a little sci-fi.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yuh!
what will you do if higgs-boson doesnt exist? delete all your posts related to physics? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I'm sure that not having a higgs-boson will not suddenly break the universe. There can be many explanations for something, we just describe behavior.
maybe fade is just hovering without flapping
We only don't know stuff about isolated subatomic particles. We can explain them though. How do you explain "HOVARING WITHOUT FLAPING"?
Exactly. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Maybe at this point in the future there are so many humans that cost of life is cheaper then the materials needed to create a machine.
This is true..
<!--quoteo(post=1686907:date=Aug 29 2008, 07:42 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 07:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A) You have no idea what a scientific "theory" means then. If the theory of relativity is wrong, then EVERYTHING we know about the universe is wrong. This is simply not the case. In order for a "theory" to have any scientific weight, it has to have many experiments designed to disprove it, and they all have to fail under euclidean circumstances. A theory is more like 99.99999999999% certainty. There is no way around infinite energy requirements to move faster than speed of light and there is NO WAY you can claim this without being ridiculed in any scientific society.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is True..
<!--quoteo(post=1686912:date=Aug 29 2008, 08:15 PM:name=daidalos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daidalos @ Aug 29 2008, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not merely technology we are unable to develop yet, it goes far beyond onto the more philosophical, metaphysical level, that's what I always liked about science-fiction<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This Is True
<!--quoteo(post=1686925:date=Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the case of back-doors, yes they might be possible. But these back doors can't disrupt what we already do know about the laws. Nothing will violate relativity or the equal action-reaction principle for example.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This Is True
<!--quoteo(post=1686925:date=Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Aug 29 2008, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4) Everything has to make sense and would work as if you plugged the technology into our current world. So no ground armies without long range weapons. No space ships with deadly control panels strapped with plastic explosives which are the #1 cause of fatalities in combat. etc...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is not so True, but I get the humour <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Is this Off-Topic? I don't think so.....
Time is made up. It is a concept related purely to the Earth. It is an undisputed fact, that if you were to propel yourself away from the Earth in a straight line, fast enough, you could arrive back on Earth 40 years later, having only been travelling for 10 years. You would have only aged 10 years, while everyone on Earth, would have aged 40.
People often go down the route of saying that the faster you went, the shorter the time would be. They say eventually, if you were to go fast enough, you would go back in time. This is a fascinating theory, but that is just one small aspect of the greater Theories that could arrive from that very Theory of Relativity. I wish people would look at the other exciting alternatives that this could also bring.
This is my <b>'Theory of the Universe'</b>.
Time becomes slower the further from Earth you get. This is because time is actually a measure of movement through space relative to Earth.(Our Religions were lambasted for putting us at the centre of God's Universe, but it's alright for Science to put the Earth at the centre of the Universe? but i'm not going to go through that here.) There must come a point, far enough away from Earth where time no longer exists, where it has slowed down to the point of totally stopping. This is the end of the Universe, the edge of our Universe.
So the question is often asked, what lies at the end of our Universe?
Do you want to know?
Alright, I'll tell you...
If you were suddenly to zoom out of our Universe, by scrolling the mouse wheel down, so that you could see our Universe in it's entirety, about an inch round in the centre of your screen, you would realise that our entire Universe, is just a Neutron in a much larger Universe. If you zoom in many times inside our Universe, and get down to the Neutrons, then zoom into them, you will find everyone of them, is it's own Universe.
Science Fact or Fiction?
It's definitely not fantasy, because it is in the scientific realm, and fits entirely within the spectrum of the theory of relativity.
Yes it goes beyond the theory of relativity, much further beyond, but it stays within it's laws.
As our Universe is just a Neutron in another larger Universe, does the Theory of Relativity still hold there? Or if you shrink into the tiny Universes that we call Neutrons, does the Theory still hold there?
Even if we find the Theory of Relativity works in every Neutron, Does this mean the Universes known as Electrons are the same? As they have a different charge, they could be very different Universes with very Different 'Laws'.
Even if we accept the Theory of Relativity is present in the Electron Universes, and every other universe, whether up or down or sideways, there are many other factors to take into consideration. What happens when our universe, in it's charged state, is joined with another? What sort of things may occur then?
Blackholes? Simply this would be a point of connection between Universes, the Neutrons, Electrons and Protons, the differing polarised charges attracting to the point of connection, from both sides so all lines lead to the centre of the Black Hole. That's a basic piece of relativiy, called magnetism, and it is working with our Universe, as well as in the Universe.
Folds in the fabric of Space-Time? Highly likely when you consider we are constaltnly being bundled and banged together with other simarly or oppositely charged Universes. If these exist, then time travel is possible.
You call it Science Fiction, I call it Science Fact. It cannot be disproven, because it is within the bounds of relativity, and requires no additional laws or oversights, that some theories require you to believe.
Science Fiction, Fact and Fantasy are NOT seperate entities, you just perceive them to be. If you realise that the greatest scientific discoveries ever made, were made by tests not working as expected, the scientists going back with an open mind, and recording what actually happened, made startling changes to our pictures of the universe. Some of the most basic truths we now hold in science, were ridiculed when first discovered. The scientists knew what they discovered. Just because you can't see a way something fits into the universe, doesn't mean someone else out there can't.
You are all of course absolutely right, because that is what you want from the game. Unfortunately, the other people who await this game, are not you, and therefore, too have certain things they hope for.
I truly believe that within the laws of the Universe, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. People need to stop trying to put Humans at the top of the knowledge tree, and realise we are just a small part of an unbelievably big Universe, which is just a tiny Neutron in another Universe, and so on.
Remember the path goes up as well as down. It never ends.
Peace to you all
Andy
----EDIT------
Of course, when you realise the sheer insignificance of Humans, you realise their greatness at the same time. It also becomes blindingly obvious that 'Aliens' exist, and from this point forward shall be science fact.
What they look like is entirely up to you.
----EDIT EDIT -----
My theory is further strengthened by the fact that we know that Neutrons etc, are nearly completely empty space, with a tiny percentage of matter, that is energy operating at a 'lower' frequency than the 'space' between.
Compare that to our own Universe, nearly all empty space, with a tiny percentage of matter (planets, suns etc) floating about in it.
Notice any similarities?
Peace Again
Andy