ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1696200:date=Dec 16 2008, 12:17 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 16 2008, 12:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Same spot is pretty important. 20 steps further for the survivors might make the difference between narrow chokepoint with tier 1 weapons or everyone standing ready in front of a distant door with autoshotties. Man, that game sucked, never seen the Director stack so much towards one team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know, and I still think it is a bad idea for it to be the exact same place simply b/c it gives the 2nd team a large advantage.
The smoker is awesome at dragging the last survivor to jump down where they can't get back up, also, the closer you are, the faster they won't be able to shoot back. Point blank smoking can be quite effective on solos. Special note when standing between fires and dragging down on no mercy level 3, above the trucks near gas station. Oh and in the hospital, there is a ledge-to-ledge area where you can drag them to get stuck hanging on the side, usually works before the others free them.
<!--quoteo(post=1696190:date=Dec 16 2008, 01:46 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ Dec 16 2008, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll be first in line to take time as a Zombie, please. I don't want, or need 20 seconds of scratching my appendages whilst other people play the game. Considering that if you're unlucky enough to spawn as the complete failboat we'll call 'THE SMOKER' to hide it's identity (oh whoops!) you're going to have a lifespan so short* that it's entirely possible that you'll be spending most of your time looking at the respawn queue, at least give me something to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->For the reasons people give, the Smoker isn't as bad as you make out. In terms of actually getting to the point where it does damage, it sucks. But I think its ability to drag survivors out of contention is effective.
An example I had the other night playing Smoker: It was No Mercy, the beginning of the finale map. One of the Survivors tried to solo my Hunter teammate at the back of that first long corridor with rooms off to the sides and gets nailed. But within microseconds another Survivor peels off from the front to go back to get him. The Hunter was in a room so he couldn't shoot him outright (or he didn't think to shoot through the wall). I see him coming back and spawn as a Smoker in the room opposite, then drag the teammate into my room just before he sights the Hunter. Result? A relatively high amount of damage done by the Hunter because I bought him extra time, and a little bit of damage done by me, all in the first 3 minutes of the finale round which the other team had gone into looking the favourites to win.
Playing as a normal infected really is pointless, because you have no special abilities to counter the Survivors' range or power. You cannot knock Survivors down. You can't do anything that will force the Survivors' hand unless you are in numbers. You might really want to play as a normal Infected, knowing that it would be a challenge and you might be able to harass some crappy Survivor players, but most players would find it incredibly frustrating and a waste of time. Talking to your teammates and setting up the next ambush point is a much better way of using your Special Infected respawn time, so I don't think this is an issue.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And there are still 'bugs', or at least design decisions that are, in a word, a bit ****. Melee can still knock a Hunter out of a leap (conservation of momentum apparently doesn't apply in L4D)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think this is idiotic, too, especially in Versus. It's also counter-intuitive, which should be a capital offence in Valveland the way they mollycoddle their players these days.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->attacking the guy being tongued breaks the tongue (way to <i>reward</i> Friendly Fire there)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't agree that it shouldn't break the tongue, I do agree that it should do friendly fire damage. You should have a tradeoff: either deal damage and get him out of trouble instantaneously, or try to shoot the Smoker himself for a time penalty. The way it works now makes Smoking very difficult, even against some bots.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and the decision to spawn the Tank can effectively be a long annoying death sentence, depending on where you are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I assume you mean for the Tank. I would agree that the Director does choose some imbecilic spots to spawn the Tank, especially in outdoor and open sections where the Tank is naturally vulnerable.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can still block exits last time I played using a car as the Tank, you can <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=52RICNSQMQo" target="_blank">block ladders</a> as a Survivor, etc etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Considering this nullifies one of the achievements and massively aids getting other achievements, you would have thought this might have been checked. Another example of Valve relying too much on non-destructive testing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if they fixed the spawning of Tanks yet. sherpa & I played one campaign where the other team had four, and we had zero. It's a great, fun fun game, but it's not without it's share of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's no info on how this works, but everything I've seen of it seems to indicate that, contrary to co-op where they spawn when the Survivors are doing well, Tanks are a reward for the Infected side keeping the Survivors under the thumb. If this is how it works, I don't think this is a very well thought out mechanic, and either way it's definitely broken.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Playing as a normal infected really is pointless, because you have no special abilities to counter the Survivors' range or power. You cannot knock Survivors down. You can't do anything that will force the Survivors' hand unless you are in numbers. You might really want to play as a normal Infected, knowing that it would be a challenge and you might be able to harass some crappy Survivor players, but most players would find it incredibly frustrating and a waste of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "You are currently waiting to spawn. Click left mouse if you want to play as a regular infected in the meantime."
<!--quoteo(post=1696248:date=Dec 17 2008, 01:25 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Dec 17 2008, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"You are currently waiting to spawn. Click left mouse if you want to play as <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->an inferior class with roughly 20HP that will die in 1 to 5 (maximum) shots<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Let's also not forget that the Horde is supposed to be brainless and ineffective as individuals and only powerful in numbers. Anything you do to try and make playing as a normal Infected more rewarding for the player would have negative ramifications on the Survivors interaction with the Horde in general.
Look at how many people are ######ing about the Smoker being underpowered, and then think how much worse off the normal Infected would be.
meh, I never felt like the smoker is particularly underpowered. I always thought of him as a step up from the hunter. Hunters take survivors out of the action by staying right out in the open; smokers take survivors out of the action by pulling them away, preferably away from their team or down a ledge or something. couldn't hurt for the smoker's smoke to actually have a negative effect on survivors who breathe it though.
on another note, good games just now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> that was my first time playing with you guys, and 2 full teams of actually decent players really makes it a ton more fun.
(I was Ensvey - I felt compelled to change my name so that people didn't think this decade-old nick was a name I picked for playing the zombie game)
<!--quoteo(post=1696285:date=Dec 18 2008, 02:03 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Dec 18 2008, 02:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's also not forget that the Horde is supposed to be brainless and ineffective as individuals and only powerful in numbers. Anything you do to try and make playing as a normal Infected more rewarding for the player would have negative ramifications on the Survivors interaction with the Horde in general.
Look at how many people are ######ing about the Smoker being underpowered, and then think how much worse off the normal Infected would be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's all in the presentation. Don't sugar-coat it: You're playing a regular infected. DON'T try to make it more rewarding to play as a regular infected. When I wrote my previous post, I almost wrote "play as cannon-fodder in the meantime," because that's what the regular infected are.
Consider Natural Selection: Do you remember that many people were unhappy back when res-for-kills was introduced? No longer could you as a skulk throw yourself at the enemy if even a small chance at doing damage offered itself, because with every failure you were giving the enemy team resources. Before then, many players viewed skulks as wholly expendable cannonfodder and would throw themselves at the enemy with reckless abandon, heedless of their own health because the sole consequence for death was a trip to the respawn queue and a fast jog (at skulk speed) back to where the action was. People so inclined WILL assume the role of cannon-fodder if the game doesn't punish them for it.
Anyone who has ever played a survivor (which is everyone) knows that regular infected are cannonfodder. Grist for the mill, fuel for the fire, blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne. The lifespan of a regular infected upon entering the vicinity of the survivors is estimated at five seconds and below, and with the limited abilities they have, the best a zombie player can hope for is to flank a survivor and claw him once or twice before eating a shotgun sandwich. And that's OKAY. We know the odds.
People ###### about the smoker because he's a <u>special</u> zombie who is not <u>special</u> enough, in their view. Nobody expects a regular infected to be special. People who would elect to spawn as a regular infected would do so knowing full well that they will probably contribute next to nothing while in that form. They would do it for the intended reason: Just to relieve the boredom of the respawn queue. Staying in the game rather than sitting around with their thumb up their ass.
In the end, it's opt-in: Unless you actively choose to, you will never be a regular infected. Playing as one is for people who sit around in the respawn queue bored, thinking "I wish I could play as one of the regular infected while waiting. ANYTHING to relieve the boredom." Those who are content waiting, not wanting to be fodder, never will be fodder.
<!--quoteo(post=1696286:date=Dec 18 2008, 02:16 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Dec 18 2008, 02:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->meh, I never felt like the smoker is particularly underpowered. I always thought of him as a step up from the hunter. Hunters take survivors out of the action by staying right out in the open; smokers take survivors out of the action by pulling them away, preferably away from their team or down a ledge or something. couldn't hurt for the smoker's smoke to actually have a negative effect on survivors who breathe it though.
on another note, good games just now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> that was my first time playing with you guys, and 2 full teams of actually decent players really makes it a ton more fun.
(I was Ensvey - I felt compelled to change my name so that people didn't think this decade-old nick was a name I picked for playing the zombie game)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hunter can get "bonus damage" from high speed pounces, and 10-20 instant unavoidable damage <i>really hurts</i> when damage is otherwise in the range of 1-5. I just wish you could build up extra damage with walljumps; style bonus. Smoker doesn't have any neat tricks to it. And you gotta get in line of sight of survivor before attempting to fire the tongue which may break or stop before touching its target, likely as not, all the while hoping like hell they're distracted or you don't give off a RHEUOF COFF at a bad time. If only the tongue didn't break at the drop of a hat...
Not completely useless, though. Did fairly well last game, actually. But if I hadn't been teh suck I would've preferred hunter mode, just for the bonus damage coolness.
We had reached the safe room at the end of a level on advanced and I was down to 1 health. Another player jokingly said the wanted to shoot me down, then revive me to get that achievment (go out of a safe room and save a friend). He shoots me, I go down, he walks over to revive me. Suddenly a hoard comes (and maybe a boomer, my memory is a bit hazy). He manages to get me up, and I crawl into the safe room. They close the door... but I was not all the way in. The closing door pushes me back out into another hoard and down I go again. He rushes back out to save me again, and gets knocked down himself.
Now a 3rd member has to run out and try and save us both. I soon die from my wounds and the other guy gets saved and makes it into the safe room. At this point, a 3rd member gets the achievement the 2nd guy was going for and he gets nothing since I died. Ah, justice.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2008
Hehe epic that!, must've really been a real teeth grinding moment there <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Another small story:
I and me good buddy Madman and another guy (yeh one left <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />) had almost killed the last tank on blood harvest expert, however the tank knocked me down from of the roof with low health (I got incapacitated) Then the other guy also went down and got killed by the tank, he then came towards me, with madman and me trying to kill him before pounded me into the ground. Alas I got killed as well. Now Madman, low on health and completly alone, was dashing for the barn to see if there were jerrycans, which he did find. He lit them up with the tank right behind him. The tank, now on fire, dies soon after (he already endured a lot of bullets to the face)
Madman sees the APC comming for him, so he makes a dash, while hearing a hunter and a boomer. And just as he reaches the entrance of the apc, the frikking hunter pounces him...
OMFG moment there? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I've had a few moments with a tank in the helicopter while others lay around half-dead, not fun.
In the sewers of no mercy level 3, we got a tank after us in the ammunition room. We decided it was easier to stay in there then and concentrate fire then get picked off in the tunnels. Someone, can't remember if it was disco zombie or not, got punched by the tank and got stuck in a endless "falling" animation loop on some of the pipes sticking out of the wall.
I also witnessed a tank falling off the final no mercy roof by his own accord.
I've never noticed this "extra damage" bonus you say hunters get, you sure it isn't just the difficulty?
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1696336:date=Dec 18 2008, 08:10 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Dec 18 2008, 08:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've never noticed this "extra damage" bonus you say hunters get, you sure it isn't just the difficulty?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You get an instant damage bonus depending on how hard you hit them. You see it occassionally when you land a pounce from a height.
If I recall, if you pounce someone from near them, the only damage you do is when they're on the ground. If you manage to land a pounce from a huge height, you get 25 damage on impact, plus the damage you do while on the ground. You see it on the screen as "x has caused y damage" or something.
By the way, is there any convenient way to "practice" stuff like walljumping? I couldn't get it to work in that game I played, and it's not like asking the survivors to please stop shotgunning me while I figure this out works very well.
For that matter, even just a quick instruction in how it works would be nice.
at the 3 minute mark of that video, it shows you basically what to do. Jump facing a wall, turn around facing the direction you want to pounce in and jump when you're touching the wall. It's not that hard to time, they seem to make you sortof pause on the wall if you want to jump. You can for sure practice when the survivors are in another part of the map, a few attempts per life won't kill your team or anything.
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
<!--quoteo(post=1696336:date=Dec 18 2008, 09:10 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Dec 18 2008, 09:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[..] Someone, can't remember if it was disco zombie or not, got punched by the tank and got stuck in a endless "falling" animation loop on some of the pipes sticking out of the wall.[..]
I've never noticed this "extra damage" bonus you say hunters get, you sure it isn't just the difficulty?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah, that was me. Pretty damn sad.
The extra damage occurs when you have enough momentum/speed/distance on a jump. I make a habit of aiming above the target I'm pouncing at, to get that sweet impact damage. It goes all up to 25!
<!--quoteo(post=1696336:date=Dec 18 2008, 09:10 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Dec 18 2008, 09:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the sewers of no mercy level 3, we got a tank after us in the ammunition room. We decided it was easier to stay in there then and concentrate fire then get picked off in the tunnels. Someone, can't remember if it was disco zombie or not, got punched by the tank and got stuck in a endless "falling" animation loop on some of the pipes sticking out of the wall.
I also witnessed a tank falling off the final no mercy roof by his own accord.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that was me as tank, in both cases :|
Also lolf, I sowwy for being bit of a ###### and ditching you guys, but I so rarely get the chance to play VS (with anyone I know), and just find it more fun..
I could be wrong, but hunter looks like easy mode.
I mean, all you have to do is jump on one and it auto knocks them down and claws them to death.
Or am I wrong?
After watching that footage though, game doesn't look all too great. I'd only spend like 10-15 bucks on it. Then yet, there is no PC demo that I can find.
La ChupacabraJoin Date: 2008-02-25Member: 63729Members
<!--quoteo(post=1696713:date=Dec 25 2008, 02:58 AM:name=Paranoia2MB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Paranoia2MB @ Dec 25 2008, 02:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could be wrong, but hunter looks like easy mode.
I mean, all you have to do is jump on one and it auto knocks them down and claws them to death.
Or am I wrong?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> haven't played this myself, but it seems that hunter doesn't deal too much damage per second when gutting a survivor, thus it takes a while to kill him, a while during which hunter is very vulnerable to gunfire (like a skulk, it takes advantage from fast and agile movement to stay alive... or, errr, undead?). So, it's easy for the hunter when dealing with a rambo-type of player, but hard when fighting off a group.
<!--quoteo(post=1696720:date=Dec 25 2008, 08:30 AM:name=La Chupacabra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(La Chupacabra @ Dec 25 2008, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->haven't played this myself, but it seems that hunter doesn't deal too much damage per second when gutting a survivor, thus it takes a while to kill him, a while during which hunter is very vulnerable to gunfire (like a skulk, it takes advantage from fast and agile movement to stay alive... or, errr, undead?). So, it's easy for the hunter when dealing with a rambo-type of player, but hard when fighting off a group.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basic Infected theory:
Boomer: Can summon horde, thus pinning the surviviors down in an unfavourable position. Smoker: Able to drag a single survivior away from the main group. Hunter: Quick and agile, able to take down a lone survivior with relative ease. But needs Boomer and Smoker seperate the group. Tank: Best against slow survivors. Only works well, when other infected are causing chaos among the group. Witch: Always AI controlled. Only usefull when Infected can force a battle near the witch.
It's true though, 1-on-1 a survivor is no match for a hunter. It isn't too difficult to successfully pounce a survivor, and once he's down he's utterly helpless. It comes down to the emphasis on teamwork: Without teamwork, the infected will make short work of the survivors. But like La Chupacabra said, it takes a while to damage the survivors. In fact, unless you pounce from a great distance, which does damage by itself, it takes about two seconds before you do ANY damage to your victim, and alert survivors will shoot or melee you off your victim before you do any real harm. The infected need to work together to split up the group before they can do any serious damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1696713:date=Dec 25 2008, 02:58 AM:name=Paranoia2MB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Paranoia2MB @ Dec 25 2008, 02:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After watching that footage though, game doesn't look all too great. I'd only spend like 10-15 bucks on it. Then yet, there is no PC demo that I can find.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Bit of an oversight, there. There was a demo but they took it down on release day, or therabouts. If there's no demo you'll just have to wait until Valve does a free weekend.
It looks like HL2 with improved lighting, but the game's not really about looks: it's about replay value. Try buying it online if Steam looks too pricey, I got a massive discount buying from Amazon.
The overwhelming of satisfaction when everything in a infected attack "clicks" it pays for itself many times over. It can compared to successfully skulk rushing a base in NS when the heavy train is busy taking down one of your hives and wearing them down before they can finish the last one off.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1696801:date=Dec 27 2008, 10:32 AM:name=Abra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Abra @ Dec 27 2008, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696801"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or to when you go "OOOOHLOLOLOLOLOL" over skype voice chat. Man I miss NS soo much. Reunion soon yes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. I really miss NS. Too much <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Played a few competitive games and it highlights the flaws in the game:
I was on my own, on the bit where you have to wait for the lift in the hospital. A dead team-mate told me to sit in the cupboard and hold the melee button down. I thought it'd be a bit of a laugh and didn't expect to to survive past the first wave so I was pretty shocked when I managed to beat back ALL of the mook zombies, ALL of the PC hunters, ALL of the PC boomers and ALL of the PC smokers.
I wasn't doing anything skilfull (except for dinking smokers so their tongue disappears) I was just crouched in a room spamming melee.
I've since seen this become a regular tactic for people who know the ins and outs of the game. Incredibly lame- it gets to the point where the PC infected have no choice but to gift the survivors the event.
Comments
I know, and I still think it is a bad idea for it to be the exact same place simply b/c it gives the 2nd team a large advantage.
Moar maps nao.
I would settle for more Vs Maps (like Dead Air)
An example I had the other night playing Smoker: It was No Mercy, the beginning of the finale map. One of the Survivors tried to solo my Hunter teammate at the back of that first long corridor with rooms off to the sides and gets nailed. But within microseconds another Survivor peels off from the front to go back to get him. The Hunter was in a room so he couldn't shoot him outright (or he didn't think to shoot through the wall). I see him coming back and spawn as a Smoker in the room opposite, then drag the teammate into my room just before he sights the Hunter. Result? A relatively high amount of damage done by the Hunter because I bought him extra time, and a little bit of damage done by me, all in the first 3 minutes of the finale round which the other team had gone into looking the favourites to win.
Playing as a normal infected really is pointless, because you have no special abilities to counter the Survivors' range or power. You cannot knock Survivors down. You can't do anything that will force the Survivors' hand unless you are in numbers. You might really want to play as a normal Infected, knowing that it would be a challenge and you might be able to harass some crappy Survivor players, but most players would find it incredibly frustrating and a waste of time. Talking to your teammates and setting up the next ambush point is a much better way of using your Special Infected respawn time, so I don't think this is an issue.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And there are still 'bugs', or at least design decisions that are, in a word, a bit ****. Melee can still knock a Hunter out of a leap (conservation of momentum apparently doesn't apply in L4D)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think this is idiotic, too, especially in Versus. It's also counter-intuitive, which should be a capital offence in Valveland the way they mollycoddle their players these days.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->attacking the guy being tongued breaks the tongue (way to <i>reward</i> Friendly Fire there)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't agree that it shouldn't break the tongue, I do agree that it should do friendly fire damage. You should have a tradeoff: either deal damage and get him out of trouble instantaneously, or try to shoot the Smoker himself for a time penalty. The way it works now makes Smoking very difficult, even against some bots.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and the decision to spawn the Tank can effectively be a long annoying death sentence, depending on where you are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I assume you mean for the Tank. I would agree that the Director does choose some imbecilic spots to spawn the Tank, especially in outdoor and open sections where the Tank is naturally vulnerable.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can still block exits last time I played using a car as the Tank, you can <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=52RICNSQMQo" target="_blank">block ladders</a> as a Survivor, etc etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Considering this nullifies one of the achievements and massively aids getting other achievements, you would have thought this might have been checked. Another example of Valve relying too much on non-destructive testing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if they fixed the spawning of Tanks yet. sherpa & I played one campaign where the other team had four, and we had zero. It's a great, fun fun game, but it's not without it's share of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's no info on how this works, but everything I've seen of it seems to indicate that, contrary to co-op where they spawn when the Survivors are doing well, Tanks are a reward for the Infected side keeping the Survivors under the thumb. If this is how it works, I don't think this is a very well thought out mechanic, and either way it's definitely broken.
"You are currently waiting to spawn. Click left mouse if you want to play as a regular infected in the meantime."
Look at how many people are ######ing about the Smoker being underpowered, and then think how much worse off the normal Infected would be.
on another note, good games just now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> that was my first time playing with you guys, and 2 full teams of actually decent players really makes it a ton more fun.
(I was Ensvey - I felt compelled to change my name so that people didn't think this decade-old nick was a name I picked for playing the zombie game)
Look at how many people are ######ing about the Smoker being underpowered, and then think how much worse off the normal Infected would be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's all in the presentation. Don't sugar-coat it: You're playing a regular infected. DON'T try to make it more rewarding to play as a regular infected. When I wrote my previous post, I almost wrote "play as cannon-fodder in the meantime," because that's what the regular infected are.
Consider Natural Selection: Do you remember that many people were unhappy back when res-for-kills was introduced? No longer could you as a skulk throw yourself at the enemy if even a small chance at doing damage offered itself, because with every failure you were giving the enemy team resources. Before then, many players viewed skulks as wholly expendable cannonfodder and would throw themselves at the enemy with reckless abandon, heedless of their own health because the sole consequence for death was a trip to the respawn queue and a fast jog (at skulk speed) back to where the action was. People so inclined WILL assume the role of cannon-fodder if the game doesn't punish them for it.
Anyone who has ever played a survivor (which is everyone) knows that regular infected are cannonfodder. Grist for the mill, fuel for the fire, blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne. The lifespan of a regular infected upon entering the vicinity of the survivors is estimated at five seconds and below, and with the limited abilities they have, the best a zombie player can hope for is to flank a survivor and claw him once or twice before eating a shotgun sandwich. And that's OKAY. We know the odds.
People ###### about the smoker because he's a <u>special</u> zombie who is not <u>special</u> enough, in their view. Nobody expects a regular infected to be special. People who would elect to spawn as a regular infected would do so knowing full well that they will probably contribute next to nothing while in that form. They would do it for the intended reason: Just to relieve the boredom of the respawn queue. Staying in the game rather than sitting around with their thumb up their ass.
In the end, it's opt-in: Unless you actively choose to, you will never be a regular infected. Playing as one is for people who sit around in the respawn queue bored, thinking "I wish I could play as one of the regular infected while waiting. ANYTHING to relieve the boredom." Those who are content waiting, not wanting to be fodder, never will be fodder.
on another note, good games just now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> that was my first time playing with you guys, and 2 full teams of actually decent players really makes it a ton more fun.
(I was Ensvey - I felt compelled to change my name so that people didn't think this decade-old nick was a name I picked for playing the zombie game)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hunter can get "bonus damage" from high speed pounces, and 10-20 instant unavoidable damage <i>really hurts</i> when damage is otherwise in the range of 1-5. I just wish you could build up extra damage with walljumps; style bonus.
Smoker doesn't have any neat tricks to it. And you gotta get in line of sight of survivor before attempting to fire the tongue which may break or stop before touching its target, likely as not, all the while hoping like hell they're distracted or you don't give off a RHEUOF COFF at a bad time. If only the tongue didn't break at the drop of a hat...
Not completely useless, though. Did fairly well last game, actually.
But if I hadn't been teh suck I would've preferred hunter mode, just for the bonus damage coolness.
We had reached the safe room at the end of a level on advanced and I was down to 1 health. Another player jokingly said the wanted to shoot me down, then revive me to get that achievment (go out of a safe room and save a friend). He shoots me, I go down, he walks over to revive me. Suddenly a hoard comes (and maybe a boomer, my memory is a bit hazy). He manages to get me up, and I crawl into the safe room. They close the door... but I was not all the way in. The closing door pushes me back out into another hoard and down I go again. He rushes back out to save me again, and gets knocked down himself.
Now a 3rd member has to run out and try and save us both. I soon die from my wounds and the other guy gets saved and makes it into the safe room. At this point, a 3rd member gets the achievement the 2nd guy was going for and he gets nothing since I died. Ah, justice.
Another small story:
I and me good buddy Madman and another guy (yeh one left <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />) had almost killed the last tank on blood harvest expert, however the tank knocked me down from of the roof with low health (I got incapacitated) Then the other guy also went down and got killed by the tank, he then came towards me, with madman and me trying to kill him before pounded me into the ground. Alas I got killed as well. Now Madman, low on health and completly alone, was dashing for the barn to see if there were jerrycans, which he did find. He lit them up with the tank right behind him. The tank, now on fire, dies soon after (he already endured a lot of bullets to the face)
Madman sees the APC comming for him, so he makes a dash, while hearing a hunter and a boomer. And just as he reaches the entrance of the apc, the frikking hunter pounces him...
OMFG moment there? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
In the sewers of no mercy level 3, we got a tank after us in the ammunition room. We decided it was easier to stay in there then and concentrate fire then get picked off in the tunnels. Someone, can't remember if it was disco zombie or not, got punched by the tank and got stuck in a endless "falling" animation loop on some of the pipes sticking out of the wall.
I also witnessed a tank falling off the final no mercy roof by his own accord.
I've never noticed this "extra damage" bonus you say hunters get, you sure it isn't just the difficulty?
You get an instant damage bonus depending on how hard you hit them. You see it occassionally when you land a pounce from a height.
If I recall, if you pounce someone from near them, the only damage you do is when they're on the ground. If you manage to land a pounce from a huge height, you get 25 damage on impact, plus the damage you do while on the ground. You see it on the screen as "x has caused y damage" or something.
Video of it here:
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For that matter, even just a quick instruction in how it works would be nice.
at the 3 minute mark of that video, it shows you basically what to do. Jump facing a wall, turn around facing the direction you want to pounce in and jump when you're touching the wall. It's not that hard to time, they seem to make you sortof pause on the wall if you want to jump. You can for sure practice when the survivors are in another part of the map, a few attempts per life won't kill your team or anything.
I've never noticed this "extra damage" bonus you say hunters get, you sure it isn't just the difficulty?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah, that was me. Pretty damn sad.
The extra damage occurs when you have enough momentum/speed/distance on a jump. I make a habit of aiming above the target I'm pouncing at, to get that sweet impact damage. It goes all up to 25!
I also witnessed a tank falling off the final no mercy roof by his own accord.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that was me as tank, in both cases :|
Also lolf, I sowwy for being bit of a ###### and ditching you guys, but I so rarely get the chance to play VS (with anyone I know), and just find it more fun..
I gave it a few lols'.
I mean, all you have to do is jump on one and it auto knocks them down and claws them to death.
Or am I wrong?
After watching that footage though, game doesn't look all too great. I'd only spend like 10-15 bucks on it. Then yet, there is no PC demo that I can find.
I mean, all you have to do is jump on one and it auto knocks them down and claws them to death.
Or am I wrong?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haven't played this myself, but it seems that hunter doesn't deal too much damage per second when gutting a survivor, thus it takes a while to kill him, a while during which hunter is very vulnerable to gunfire (like a skulk, it takes advantage from fast and agile movement to stay alive... or, errr, undead?). So, it's easy for the hunter when dealing with a rambo-type of player, but hard when fighting off a group.
Basic Infected theory:
Boomer: Can summon horde, thus pinning the surviviors down in an unfavourable position.
Smoker: Able to drag a single survivior away from the main group.
Hunter: Quick and agile, able to take down a lone survivior with relative ease. But needs Boomer and Smoker seperate the group.
Tank: Best against slow survivors. Only works well, when other infected are causing chaos among the group.
Witch: Always AI controlled. Only usefull when Infected can force a battle near the witch.
It looks like HL2 with improved lighting, but the game's not really about looks: it's about replay value. Try buying it online if Steam looks too pricey, I got a massive discount buying from Amazon.
If you say that aloud it sounds like a murloc :o
Yeah. I really miss NS. Too much <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I was on my own, on the bit where you have to wait for the lift in the hospital. A dead team-mate told me to sit in the cupboard and hold the melee button down. I thought it'd be a bit of a laugh and didn't expect to to survive past the first wave so I was pretty shocked when I managed to beat back ALL of the mook zombies, ALL of the PC hunters, ALL of the PC boomers and ALL of the PC smokers.
I wasn't doing anything skilfull (except for dinking smokers so their tongue disappears) I was just crouched in a room spamming melee.
I've since seen this become a regular tactic for people who know the ins and outs of the game. Incredibly lame- it gets to the point where the PC infected have no choice but to gift the survivors the event.
=/