Squads
invader Zim
Join Date: 2007-09-20 Member: 62376Members
Join Date: 2007-09-20 Member: 62376Members
<div class="IPBDescription">how can they work/interface</div>Disclaimer: if this has already been discussed i missed it...
It was implied in one of the mockups from a a podcast a while ago that the marines would be split in to squads, There was lots of discussion on the forum on how this would work from the comms point of view and how respawning and other functions would work.
What im curious about is getting squads to work and fight as squads in an organised fashion where they communicate. There are squads in ns1 but they are rarley assigned and when they are they dont really mean much. Some of my best experiences in the game are when a few players form together and move down a corridor in a more squad like fashion.
How can squad cohesiveness be brought in to ns2?
For squads to work imo the players need:
to know they are in a squad and which one
to know what a squad is
to know where their squad is and what it is doing
to know what their role in the squad is
to be able to communicate with the squad
to have a basic grasp of squad combat tactics
The aim of this discussion is the find away of allowing players to easily from in to groups of 3 to 5 and work together to achieve the commanders goals.
Here are my thoughts: maybe players could get a squad communciation key for text and voice chat so they can talk to the squad and not everyone else. Maybe the squad could appear differently on their hud to all other players. Maybe orders/waypoints could be assigned to the squad rather than the individual or as well as. Maybe players should be able to see the rest of the squads load out and their complimentary loadout should be suggested. Finaly maybe there should be a squad tactics section in any potential manual (the manual maybe community written).
Im not a clan or competative player so this thread maybe redundant for clanners, It may be worth discussing whether squads are desirable as well.
It was implied in one of the mockups from a a podcast a while ago that the marines would be split in to squads, There was lots of discussion on the forum on how this would work from the comms point of view and how respawning and other functions would work.
What im curious about is getting squads to work and fight as squads in an organised fashion where they communicate. There are squads in ns1 but they are rarley assigned and when they are they dont really mean much. Some of my best experiences in the game are when a few players form together and move down a corridor in a more squad like fashion.
How can squad cohesiveness be brought in to ns2?
For squads to work imo the players need:
to know they are in a squad and which one
to know what a squad is
to know where their squad is and what it is doing
to know what their role in the squad is
to be able to communicate with the squad
to have a basic grasp of squad combat tactics
The aim of this discussion is the find away of allowing players to easily from in to groups of 3 to 5 and work together to achieve the commanders goals.
Here are my thoughts: maybe players could get a squad communciation key for text and voice chat so they can talk to the squad and not everyone else. Maybe the squad could appear differently on their hud to all other players. Maybe orders/waypoints could be assigned to the squad rather than the individual or as well as. Maybe players should be able to see the rest of the squads load out and their complimentary loadout should be suggested. Finaly maybe there should be a squad tactics section in any potential manual (the manual maybe community written).
Im not a clan or competative player so this thread maybe redundant for clanners, It may be worth discussing whether squads are desirable as well.
Comments
Most of the time, a group of pub players gels thanks to two things in NS1 in my experience, they have mics that they do not abuse and they play together on the same server often.
What this tells me is that information is what gels the pub player with his team mate. Further, I would like to label this Team Combat Awareness.
I saw a bunch of videos at Game Trailers for Left 4 Dead, and I think they did some very cool things for the Survivors to help them gel as a team but the most important was that you can be aware of your team mates relative position at all times, even if they are in another room (they glow an outline and you see it through walls), especially if they need help (they glow different colors in the outline indicating information about their status), and their characters keep talking.
There is even more that can be done in the area of Team Combat Awareness, though I hope L4D demonstrates how even a bit of it can be very useful in a cooperative enviroment.
Ways this can be accomplished:
- Squad Mate Position Location Indicator (radar-ish, arrows on sides of view indicate where to turn to see a squad mate, squad mates are outlined in a glow of color, seen even through walls)
- Pie Radar Indicator (for who is pointed in what direction, red for no coverage, blue for single field of fire, green for more than one overlapping field of fire)
- Laser Target Dots (colored to each squad mate, show what a mate is currently pointing their weapon at)
- Formation Position Markers (arrows and symbols on the walking surface indicate how to move and take up formations as set by squad leader/commander: sorta like "cover" in Company of Heroes)
- Conditional Load Information (health: bio and armor rating, negative/bonus statuses; ammo; and equipment load out: armor, weapon, extras)
- Animation & Audio Cues (The in game character uses hand signals and voice chats on preset conditions automaticly to convey in game information)
Now, something I have been wondering about is if it is more desirable in a game that wants RTS features to have the information that a squad gets to gel and accomplish goals be something that is 'researched/upgraded' or just have it in there from the get go - personally, I would hope for most of it in there from the get go so that new players pick up on stuff fast and experienced players gel quickly, any thing that helps gain info on the opposing forces though be an 'upgrade/research' thing.
But it brings an extra twist to balancing, as always xD In early game NS1 the only way aliens can overtopple rines is either by ambushing or attacking from behind / more sides. When you know what your squadmates are currently covering than its going to be extremely hard for the aliens to get kills, so... with what can they counter this? Maybe a spell cast by the alien comm which disables every electronic equipment on the marines for a short period of time?
Some good points there. On the other hand I love games that reward the ability to control many factors simultaneusly, but looks like the trend is going to be assisting the casual gamers as much as possible. I can't really complain about encouraging the teamwork, both the lower end clanning and public need it.
I think this is the most interesting "requirement" so I will tlak about this mostly.
<!--quoteo(post=1682250:date=Jun 30 2008, 08:35 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jun 30 2008, 08:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Laser Target Dots (colored to each squad mate, show what a mate is currently pointing their weapon at)
- Conditional Load Information (health: bio and armor rating, negative/bonus statuses; ammo; and equipment load out: armor, weapon, extras)
- Animation & Audio Cues (The in game character uses hand signals and voice chats on preset conditions automaticly to convey in game information)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I'm sure you meant, but want to clarify before other forum-goers show up to complain, only squad mates would be able to see the laser pointers.
I think load information on your squad is a good idea, and possibly the best of those mentioned.
Instead of hand signals how about animations on the minimap? There are only a few scenarios that would need to be animated(T-intersection, corner, door way, 4-way intersection) and it could be done with arrows and dotted lines so it wouldn't require a lot of artwork.
Back on topic, I like squads. The ideas you've put forward in particular are nice and subtle, which I like. I'm not too sure on hand signals, although people have talked about voice commands as well. However, handsignals augmenting the regular voice menus would be cool, or separate for a quiet mention, but the unobservant moron might miss it.
I don't really like the dots. For one thing, it can be a little annoying to implement without seriously hampering performance. Second, I simply don't like little dots running around. If someone implements a better shared flashlight, I could go for that. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm referring to flashlight cones that show up for all players, not just the person using it. In NS1, flashlight only illuminates around the player for other players. I forget if Source takes care of this already.
The loadout info would be cool. I like how in Dystopia you can check what your teammates have in their loadout, and special team-helping implants show up by their health and armor when you look at them in the HUD. Definitely a good idea.
Thank you Local, that is it exactly, the idea is to give others a clue that when someone in your squad points at something, that they have it covered or that if you point at it too, you are doubling your fire power in that direction ... or something to that effect, it is just the idea of giving someone else in your squad info that allows them to communicate and coordinate in such a way that doesn't make the purchase of a mic necessity to facilitate the co-op nature of a team game.
And to that end, the flash lights Spellman mentions would help do that too. And just so you know Spellman, I saw what you are talking about in some Source mods, like Zombie Panic, so it should work out. Let me say that though, this would be something only your squad mates see and that it wouldn't be turned off, because we want to have it be something default that lacks confusion in the communication.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of hand signals how about animations on the minimap? There are only a few scenarios that would need to be animated(T-intersection, corner, door way, 4-way intersection) and it could be done with arrows and dotted lines so it wouldn't require a lot of artwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's excellent Local, that accomplishes communicating the idea of the contextual information that squad mates will want to coordinate on, I would be happy with that too, as long as it serves the purpose and proves intuitive for a player new to the game.
That is really what I hope for from squads, that is adds depth to a game, ease to the flow of a Comm/Komm, but not at the expense of being accessible to a hopefully broad range of gamers who would give a FPS/RTS game a chance.
So true, that is why I was thinking of animations and audio cues. Er, were the squad based voice comm selected from a list like in TF2 or just happening automatically based on the situation triggering it? I hope the second option, I think it would really help new players out in a squad situation if they were assisted by the game in communicating within their squad.