Will NS2 be out before source engine is over-the-hill?

schkorpio

<!--quoteo(post=1682837:date=Jul 9 2008, 12:49 PM:name=exoity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(exoity @ Jul 9 2008, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't matter how many lights are touching a pile of crap, if the crap has normal mapping on it or if the crap is so shiny you could see your reflection off of it. It is still a pile of crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

can you please post a link for the crap ? i wanna see how it benches on my pc, i'll post my score asap. thx.

samurai_jeff

NS is the ONLY half life 1 mod i can stand to play.. i remember when Brain Breed came out it boasted about pushing the engine to its limits.. that game has nothing on NS..

Sure its an old engine but they completely revamped it, it didnt 'feel' like you were playing a half life 1 mod..

I'm personally not worried about Source becoming outdated because i'm pretty sure these guys can still make it 'feel' like a fresh game.

Heck if the NSNZ community still existed or even the AUSNS community still exsisted (no custom ns isnt real NS) then i'd still play NS over every other game.

Nothing comes close to the depth of gameplay NS offered, and no one who really got into NS can deny that.. All this on an 'outdated' engine ??

the_x5

<!--quoteo(post=1682833:date=Jul 8 2008, 10:33 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jul 8 2008, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What made you think that paragraph was directed to you? I quoted <b>Reyn</b> when I responded, and you hadn't even posted in the topic yet. I'm very puzzled why you would think that was directed at you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wasn't directed at me, no. You may have felt it was directed only are Reyn, but if felt it was an indirect "you, plural" to which I had minor defensive reaction. Conversationally, it's one of those "hey dude, don't count me in with that," and you're thinking "Huh, I didn't mean <i>you</i> (singular)." And there may have been others like me who felt the same, I just declare my willingness to be apart from that viewpoint. Make sense?

That's all. No big deal. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

PS: In the future it's easier, and less distracting for the topic's readers, if you PM me with any such questions. I'll be upfront with admitting I'm far from perfect and conversations are often an imperfect work-in-progress. Cool?

<!--quoteo(post=1682838:date=Jul 8 2008, 11:01 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jul 8 2008, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682838"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1682837:date=Jul 8 2008, 10:49 PM:name=exoity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(exoity @ Jul 8 2008, 10:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think many of you realize that a graphics engine does not make a game. The core game play is what really matters. I also think that I should reiterate a statement that I previously read in game developer magazine. In it Doug Lombardi said that the Source engine is one of the most update engines and if you ever check the update log that games have you can see that the engine is constantly getting features added to it. I believe that once the game "Left 4 Dead" comes out (which is built on the Source engine) many will see that it is still a great engine.
It doesn't matter how many lights are touching a pile of crap, if the crap has normal mapping on it or if the crap is so shiny you could see your reflection off of it. It is still a pile of crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny, I would say the exact opposite about these forums. Most people are here because they care about the great gameplay/atmosphere of NS1. I think with the exception of the OP you're mostly preaching to the choir.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with locallyunscene, perhaps I can only speak of the few I know of their stance on this (including myself) but I would wager there are far more here that would agree that the gameplay makes the game more than the graphics.

However, the graphics don't have to equate with the immersion. For example, great music and ambiance can make a game with a solid combat "feel" have a truly epic flavor in spite of a lack of bleeding-edge graphics quality.

It is important to note that the "many" you are talking about are the developer who are funded by ATi or nVidia, the people who market for them, and the people who buy into that marketing with every latest & greatest release. If y'all would remember, Charlie and Max tried very hard for a good deal of time to find investors whose goals aligned with theirs. I assume that's what Max's reaction-comment saying, "<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=104369&view=findpost&p=1681016" target="_blank">
We intend to release a great looking game,</a>" was intending to assuage.

<!--quoteo(post=1682839:date=Jul 8 2008, 11:04 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jul 8 2008, 11:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can you please post a link for the crap ? i wanna see how it benches on my pc, i'll post my score asap. thx.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah humor. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />





This topic seems to be lack clarity. If I may, I think that <i>many</i> (if not all) of the people in this topic are on the same page here. The confusion is in who the "cutting-edge graphics are required for NS2's popularity on release" crowd are. Almost every poster here in this topic, including myself is, more or less, saying the same thing: gameplay > graphics. The only people who are not, seem to have been eliotmat's "friends" (and maybe others you all personally know like them) who quote, "<i>had trouble getting friends to play NS1 because they thought it looked like crap.</i>"

Personally, I do know of a <i>few</i> people like that (who wouldn't even try it unless it had great graphics) and they are wealthy enough to own every console, buy practically every "great" new release, and always have the latest gaming computer hardware. Interestingly, almost every single one of them (if not all) play WoW or use XBox Live regularly. Given my observations, I would forecast that they aren't the kind of market that fits well with Natural-Selection anyways.

The vast <i>majority</i> of the people <i>I</i> know of that like games value a solid gameplay feel and a solid <i>stable</i> (non-buggy) engine in a game they would buy <i>far</i> more highly than any over-advertised graphics-related bell or whistle.

I'm curious, clearly many of us had strong defensive reactions to this topic. Why? What are <i>your</i> personal observations of the gaming market you know of? (this is an open question to all readers, with no right or wrong answer)

CanadianWolverine

<!--quoteo(post=1682911:date=Jul 9 2008, 04:00 PM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Jul 9 2008, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm curious, clearly many of us had strong defensive reactions to this topic. Why? What are <i>your</i> personal observations of the gaming market you know of? (this is an open question to all readers, with no right or wrong answer)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Interesting question. My personal answer is that I am the type of game player who is not opposed to playing a text based game if I find the game play compelling enough. To me, a game's graphics peaked when I saw such wonderful emulations on Alyx's face in Half Life 2 (and episodes) - seeing those human expressions sold me far more then "shimmer" or "texture" ever did, but I am sure they each had their subtle effects. Regardless, I am willing to suspend my disbelief pretty far for a fun game, until such time as I feel like making a joke about Onos/shooters climbing a ladder. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

I understand, not everyone is even remotely like me, the idea of not having every detail of a moving image photo realistically rendered has them cringe with disbelief, thus in turn rendering the game play moot because they lack the imagination to have fun without all the subtle cues they take for granted when outside playing tag, paintball, soccer, or whatever. I simply don't even comprehend thinking like that, I read books/play board(card/pen&paper/etc) games and force a state of suspension of disbelief quite regularly for the sake of entertainment. *shrug*

BlackHawk

Well im glad they are using there own engine now so this topic is over <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

schkorpio

<!--quoteo(post=1683201:date=Jul 13 2008, 08:06 AM:name=BlackHawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlackHawk @ Jul 13 2008, 08:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683201"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well im glad they are using there own engine now so this topic is over <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

lol very true, topic can prolly be closed now.

any engine limitations source presented isnt an issue now, since they can probably add in anything that is considered a breakthrough or a must have in a modern 3d fps engine