<!--quoteo(post=1677135:date=Apr 29 2008, 05:53 PM:name=Necrosis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Necrosis @ Apr 29 2008, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677135"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is true, but I was just explaining based on the most favourable outcome.
I think the core point that people agree on is that ultimately ANY sort of warning would be preferable to none.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree but even a system with no warning would still be quite effective.
<!--quoteo(post=1677300:date=May 1 2008, 10:49 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ May 1 2008, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uh, you're missing the point Firewater. People <b>want</b> the warning.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Link me to the statistical research and explain in great depth the process you have used to deduce this statement. I want to know how you came to the conclusion that "people" want the warning.
and I don't have statistical evidence, just anecdotal evidence; since it won't be detrimental to the idea, and can only improve it, you'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt.
<!--quoteo(post=1677685:date=May 4 2008, 09:44 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ May 4 2008, 09:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol. you seriously need to relax bro.
and I don't have statistical evidence, just anecdotal evidence; since it won't be detrimental to the idea, and can only improve it, you'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah actually I don't have to give you anything <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm as relaxed as can be, I don't think I can say the same for you however. I really liked how you tried to be a wise-ass and totally failed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
That must have been frustrating!
Either way
Using a reserve slot system would be a soft system for balance as well as a reward for community members to encourage socially favorable rules. No server community that I have known encourages stacking, and is actually against most of the rules. By settling the balance issue socially, instead of by some broken exploitable stats system would be more beneficial to the community.
I'm trying to understand what it is you have against a warning system for RSS. Is it just because you didn't suggest it yourself, and you can't tolerate people adding onto your idea?
I'm trying to understand what it is you have against a warning system for RSS. Is it just because you didn't suggest it yourself, and you can't tolerate people adding onto your idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1676327:date=Apr 20 2008, 01:06 PM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Apr 20 2008, 01:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's a simple stat idea on how to give players an approximate indication of how likely they are to get kicked from a RS server...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1676401:date=Apr 21 2008, 09:42 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Apr 21 2008, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds like an interesting system, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->I think that would work really well<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1676689:date=Apr 23 2008, 09:50 PM:name=Necrosis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Necrosis @ Apr 23 2008, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676689"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I concur, I believe this could be the makings of an acceptable warning system for any players considering joining a server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1677133:date=Apr 29 2008, 05:24 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Apr 29 2008, 05:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even if the calculation didn't exist the system would still work pretty well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1677136:date=Apr 29 2008, 07:24 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Apr 29 2008, 07:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->I agree but even a system with no warning would still be quite effective.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One frustrating thing about servers with reserve slot capabilities is the need for a player slot on the server to be constantly free in order to check if the incoming player has a reserve slot or not. This messes with the nice Steam server browser which can filter out completely filled servers so you can find a server you can actually connect to. If someone could figure out a solution for this, it'd be fantastic.
It'd be cool if a player with admin capabilities could easily bring up the scoreboard in-game, double click on a player's name, and then have an option to add or remove that player's steamid from the server list of reserve slots. Make the tool intuitive and accessible but still have the option of a config file the server op can manipulate manually. The RSS system should work like it does now in current NS servers (ie, boot the last player w/out reserved slot to join with no warning). That's simple and effective, and people catch on to why they're getting booted pretty quickly if you give them a friendly kick message.
The idea of flagging servers as 'open', 'competitive' is good in theory but every implementation I've seen of it has had very little effect. Players just don't seem to care - they just want to shoot stuff
Ideally, there should be a tickbox or some sort of method that automatically deducts the slot for RSlot.
Or, if nothing else, a global RSlot Y/N search option for people who don't really want to have anything to do with RSlots at all.
Of course, this all depends on the popularity of RSlots and whatnot, I mean you don't want to introduce a Y/N check when there are NO servers that don't run RSlotting...
<!--quoteo(post=1678511:date=May 13 2008, 01:10 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ May 13 2008, 01:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sarisel: Right. Okay. Unfortunately that wasn't the impression I got from his more recent posts.
I'll just leave it up to a misunderstanding caused by poor communication skills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because I reject ideas that I feel aren't worth anything, does not mean I cannot incorporate other ideas <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
I was thinking about how to use stats to measure the probability of someone getting kicked due to a reserved slot being filled, when it occurred to me that it's not necessary. Instead of using a complex stat system to estimate this, wouldn't it be sufficient for the probability to be displayed as high, likely, and unlikely? I don't think players will care if the probability is 50 vs 65% and there's too much variability anyway.
If the last slot is being filled by a connecting player, then the probability of getting kicked for RS is high. As slots are freed up or as the player gets seniority in terms of slot order, then the status of risk could be downgraded to likely and then to unlikely (or low).
Risk levels:
high - player does not have a reserved slot AND there is only 1-2 slots remaining AND player was one of the last two players to connect to a slot likely - same criteria, except that the player is 3rd to 5th in line to get kicked unlikely (low) - same criteria, except that the player is 6th and later in line to get kicked OR there are more than 3 slots that are open
In the server browser, these risk levels would be shown next to any reserve slot server. In-game, there will be a warning message when the risk level is upgraded from unlikely to likely and to high.
I play battlefield 2142 on a server with reserved slots. You usually get kicked between 1-3 hours for one of these slots. A random person about twice per round. Now in a game of 24 vs 24 a person getting kicked on you team causes only a minor distruption to the round. Sometimes more but generally very small. In ns though reserved slots cause significantly larger problems because the is only about 8 on 8 (pub sizes). Factor that in and if they player gets kicked is an onos or commander that could cripple the team for the round. The problem with reserved slots and kicking isn't fairness so much as it would likly distrupt each round to an unacceptable level IMO on a high volume server. It's one if you clan owns a server and you keep reserved slots open for clan mates. Now I actually like some reserved slot servers so I wouldn't be opposed to the idea. I would strongly suggest against encouraging them to the point they become a norm. In addition is more likly to just kick and frustrate nubs since the likly hood of a server admin also being a nub and kicking advanced players only are slim to none.
Although it's worth highlighting that a "nub" will learn a lot more relevant information quicker in a game with fairly evenly skilled sides (at an appropriate level) than he would by joining 15 other "nubs".
I think the Comm chair might need some sort of kick-immunity, just because it's hard to recover quickly from losing a Comm.
<!--quoteo(post=1678843:date=May 18 2008, 04:59 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ May 18 2008, 04:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678843"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Firewater: Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no idea what you are refering to.
If you applied your debating skills to a game of poker, I would definitely have most of your money and you would still be talking about how much you beat me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1678882:date=May 19 2008, 12:34 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ May 19 2008, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678882"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you aren't deliberately misunderstanding me, then you must be an idiot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeaht that maybe true, but atleast I am not the one who got owned by a post of just direct quotes (that means your eRage blocked your comprehension ability).
The most interesting part of stupidity is the uncanny ability to act under the guise of being intelligent. At least it makes the posts much more comical. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1679363:date=May 24 2008, 10:41 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ May 24 2008, 10:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679363"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The most interesting part of stupidity is the uncanny ability to act under the guise of being intelligent. At least it makes the posts much more comical. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Evidently.
Yeah it definitely makes some of the posts much more interesting, but after a second read I kind of feel bad because the person is expected to be taken seriously <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1679422:date=May 25 2008, 11:22 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ May 25 2008, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah it definitely makes some of the posts much more interesting, but after a second read I kind of feel bad because the person is expected to be taken seriously <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So true.
eg. <!--quoteo(post=1678876:date=May 19 2008, 06:58 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ May 19 2008, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you applied your debating skills to a game of poker, I would definitely have most of your money and you would still be talking about how much you beat me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I think the core point that people agree on is that ultimately ANY sort of warning would be preferable to none.
I think the core point that people agree on is that ultimately ANY sort of warning would be preferable to none.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree but even a system with no warning would still be quite effective.
Link me to the statistical research and explain in great depth the process you have used to deduce this statement. I want to know how you came to the conclusion that "people" want the warning.
and I don't have statistical evidence, just anecdotal evidence; since it won't be detrimental to the idea, and can only improve it, you'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt.
and I don't have statistical evidence, just anecdotal evidence; since it won't be detrimental to the idea, and can only improve it, you'll have to give me the benefit of the doubt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah actually I don't have to give you anything <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm as relaxed as can be, I don't think I can say the same for you however. I really liked how you tried to be a wise-ass and totally failed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
That must have been frustrating!
Either way
Using a reserve slot system would be a soft system for balance as well as a reward for community members to encourage socially favorable rules. No server community that I have known encourages stacking, and is actually against most of the rules. By settling the balance issue socially, instead of by some broken exploitable stats system would be more beneficial to the community.
lol, you're hilarious Firewater.
lol, you're hilarious Firewater.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The joy you brought me during my tough finals week definitely made me relax.
Keep Anteing up, its hysterical.
I'm trying to understand what it is you have against a warning system for RSS. Is it just because you didn't suggest it yourself, and you can't tolerate people adding onto your idea?
I'm trying to understand what it is you have against a warning system for RSS. Is it just because you didn't suggest it yourself, and you can't tolerate people adding onto your idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1676327:date=Apr 20 2008, 01:06 PM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Apr 20 2008, 01:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's a simple stat idea on how to give players an approximate indication of how likely they are to get kicked from a RS server...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1676401:date=Apr 21 2008, 09:42 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Apr 21 2008, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds like an interesting system, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->I think that would work really well<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1676689:date=Apr 23 2008, 09:50 PM:name=Necrosis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Necrosis @ Apr 23 2008, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676689"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I concur, I believe this could be the makings of an acceptable warning system for any players considering joining a server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1677133:date=Apr 29 2008, 05:24 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Apr 29 2008, 05:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even if the calculation didn't exist the system would still work pretty well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1677136:date=Apr 29 2008, 07:24 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Apr 29 2008, 07:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->I agree but even a system with no warning would still be quite effective.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It'd be cool if a player with admin capabilities could easily bring up the scoreboard in-game, double click on a player's name, and then have an option to add or remove that player's steamid from the server list of reserve slots. Make the tool intuitive and accessible but still have the option of a config file the server op can manipulate manually. The RSS system should work like it does now in current NS servers (ie, boot the last player w/out reserved slot to join with no warning). That's simple and effective, and people catch on to why they're getting booted pretty quickly if you give them a friendly kick message.
The idea of flagging servers as 'open', 'competitive' is good in theory but every implementation I've seen of it has had very little effect. Players just don't seem to care - they just want to shoot stuff
I'll just leave it up to a misunderstanding caused by poor communication skills.
Or, if nothing else, a global RSlot Y/N search option for people who don't really want to have anything to do with RSlots at all.
Of course, this all depends on the popularity of RSlots and whatnot, I mean you don't want to introduce a Y/N check when there are NO servers that don't run RSlotting...
I'll just leave it up to a misunderstanding caused by poor communication skills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because I reject ideas that I feel aren't worth anything, does not mean I cannot incorporate other ideas <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
If the last slot is being filled by a connecting player, then the probability of getting kicked for RS is high. As slots are freed up or as the player gets seniority in terms of slot order, then the status of risk could be downgraded to likely and then to unlikely (or low).
Risk levels:
high - player does not have a reserved slot AND there is only 1-2 slots remaining AND player was one of the last two players to connect to a slot
likely - same criteria, except that the player is 3rd to 5th in line to get kicked
unlikely (low) - same criteria, except that the player is 6th and later in line to get kicked OR there are more than 3 slots that are open
In the server browser, these risk levels would be shown next to any reserve slot server. In-game, there will be a warning message when the risk level is upgraded from unlikely to likely and to high.
I think the Comm chair might need some sort of kick-immunity, just because it's hard to recover quickly from losing a Comm.
I have no idea what you are refering to.
If you applied your debating skills to a game of poker, I would definitely have most of your money and you would still be talking about how much you beat me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Yeaht that maybe true, but atleast I am not the one who got owned by a post of just direct quotes (that means your eRage blocked your comprehension ability).
The most interesting part of stupidity is the uncanny ability to act under the guise of being intelligent. At least it makes the posts much more comical. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Evidently.
Yeah it definitely makes some of the posts much more interesting, but after a second read I kind of feel bad because the person is expected to be taken seriously <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
So true.
eg.
<!--quoteo(post=1678876:date=May 19 2008, 06:58 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ May 19 2008, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you applied your debating skills to a game of poker, I would definitely have most of your money and you would still be talking about how much you beat me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->