Commander Selection
Underwhelmed
DemoDetective #?! Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
DemoDetective #?! Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
Right now, who becomes the commander is most often decided by who is the closest person to the chair who fancies themselves a comm at the beginning of the game, which strikes me as a rather random way of determining who gets to play the most important role on the marine team. Sure, people can vote out a commander, but that usually only happens when the commander is deemed to be "bad" by a very significant portion of the marine team - the result is that only the very worst commanders are ejected, while many commanders that can barely manage to stay above your average player's idea of what is acceptable remain in the chair (My, doesn't this sound like politics?)
So, here is my suggestion: At the beginning of each round, set aside some time for a pre-game phase (Perhaps 45-90 seconds?), where each team can discuss strategy, assign roles, and - you guessed it - vote for a commander. The specifics can be tweaked, but I'm thinking that each player gets two votes for their choice of commander (although the two votes cannot go to the same player). The commander is then selected by probability (Ex. 8 votes out of 24 total votes gives you a 1/3 chance of being selected). Any player can remove themselves from the ballot (Nobody wants an unwilling commander), and during the game itself, the traditional commander ejection system would remain as a means to remove an AFK/miscreant/whatever commander.
So, here is my suggestion: At the beginning of each round, set aside some time for a pre-game phase (Perhaps 45-90 seconds?), where each team can discuss strategy, assign roles, and - you guessed it - vote for a commander. The specifics can be tweaked, but I'm thinking that each player gets two votes for their choice of commander (although the two votes cannot go to the same player). The commander is then selected by probability (Ex. 8 votes out of 24 total votes gives you a 1/3 chance of being selected). Any player can remove themselves from the ballot (Nobody wants an unwilling commander), and during the game itself, the traditional commander ejection system would remain as a means to remove an AFK/miscreant/whatever commander.
Comments
that system isn't perfect, domining, a) some newbie might get there first anyway, b) that's a restriction or a bloody chore for mappers
Probability dictates that it won't happen too often to matter.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->b) that's a restriction or a bloody chore for mappers<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said that mapping should be a walk in a park? It isn't too hard to design a marine start to accommodate this.
No, probability dictates that any willing commander (newbie or not) -will- get in to command - how often, depending on how many potential commanders there are - since as you say every marine is equal in distance from the command chair on spawn. But it's really about who reacts fast enough, orients themself towards the command chair, runs, and presses the USE key. Just because a player's <b>new to command</b> doesn't mean they don't know <b>how to run</b>.
<!--quoteo(post=1665855:date=Jan 1 2008, 10:18 AM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Jan 1 2008, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who said that mapping should be a walk in a park? It isn't too hard to design a marine start to accommodate this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My points are still valid. But let's ignore the "bloody chore" part. It'd restrict mappers (in terms of their vision for the map) in the size (there would be a minimum), props and shape of the marine command room and marine spawn.
But I don't really know much about mapping, so I don't know how much of an issue this might be.
But really it's about ifs - if you could find a good way to implement 'voting in' or nomination, it'd be vastly superior to your suggestion.
Running isn't the fastest way to get to the chair in NS1 and I certainly hope it won't be in NS2. This way better players will always get in the chair first.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My points are still valid. But let's ignore the "bloody chore" part. It'd restrict mappers (in terms of their vision for the map) in the size (there would be a minimum), props and shape of the marine command room and marine spawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So? There are always map specification, distances between RTs and all. Good mappers will still find PLENTY and by plenty I mean an infinite amount of freedom within the system.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But really it's about ifs - if you could find a good way to implement 'voting in' or nomination, it'd be vastly superior to your suggestion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But you can't. People will end up choosing between people they don't know and that won't work unless you can implement debates or something. LOL.
"Player 'Whatever' wants to take command
Games played as commander : 100
Wins : 80
Loses : 20
Number of times player has left mid game as commander : 4
Number of times voted out of Commander position : 3
Approve 'Player whatever' to command?
Press 1 for yes 2 for no."
Just as an example. Needs improving.
This way the whole team can ensure a skilled player can go comm. Obviously if a player has lost a lot of games or has been voted out of the comm chair lots wont be aproved and wont get the chance to wreck the game.
I think we need to be careful we do not end up with a small group of players who comm every game. People need the chance to practace and develop.
What'cha think?
Stat tracking isn't accurate ESPECIALLY for commanders. Since so much depends on the marines and the skill of the opposing team, there is no way you can successfully implement stats. Whats better, 200 losses against team terror or 200 wins against a pub?
Very good point.
So, wins and losses aren't good indicators, which I agree with.
But perhaps, like you suggest, the results are heavily weighted by the teamwork of your team and the opposing team.
So, what would be a way to represent that in such a way that it would help make a good decision in deciding who woulhttp://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/style_images/1/folder_editor_images/rte-italic.png
Italicd make a good commander to facilitate the game, whether old or new?
It occurs to me that the same qualities that make a good Dungeon / Game Master in RPGs would do well in Natural Selection. Patience, flexibility, mediation, strategic mentality, facilitator, etc.
How about a commander earns experience points based on the stats of the team they command, with a multiplier for the difference in stats between the two team, with penalty for being voted out, and bonus for winning, only to be rewarded at the end of a match.
A) Take an average of the teamwork score for the players (example, end of match, take scores of teams players, get average)
B) Multiply by the difference between the two teams (example, team A average divided by team B average is a ratio, closer the ratio is to 1 or more, which means fighting a more skilled team, rewards better experience, so even a loss against Team Terror is better than winning against Team Pub Nub)
C) Penalty for being voted out, larger penalty if voted out more than once in a match to indicate possible griefer
D) Small Bonus for winning the match or perhaps just completing an entire match even if it is a loss, to reward the effort taken to make the game fun for others
Hmm, I am leaving this deliberately vague, so it can be tweeked and sharpened better by those who understand algorithms that would better represent what would go into numerically representing good Commanding in NS2 - and there are only a few people qualified to do that at this point, the Unknown World's Devs.
And to encourage getting new Commanders, have there be a multiplier to player's scores based on how many times the Commander has ever played at the NS2 Commander, so players better scores if they can have fun playing with a new or inexperienced Commander, who more experienced players can encourage and advise if they ask for it. Should the new Commander listen, chances are good that they will gain much experience their first time playing, even if they lose the match. Have that multiplyer be something like range from for example, 0 times as Commander be X2 to a max of 10th time as Comm gets a X0.1 multiplyer.
Thank you to Gemini and Domining for helping inspire this.