Unchain Alien Tech
Dark Rage
Join Date: 2007-12-05 Member: 63081Members
Join Date: 2007-12-05 Member: 63081Members
I would like to suggest that the alien structure upgrades be semi untied from having a hive. What i mean is currently you have your choice of either DC, MC or SC starting hive and can drop an additional chamber with each hive. I would still like the upgrades to be dependent on having said chambers but the ability to choose any of the upgrades at any time. So if you have one hive (as long as you have those chambers down) you can individually choose which upgrade you would like whether it is DC, SC, or MC upgrades. The catch is you can only have one upgrade per hive.
Additionally, when you get the second hive up you can choose another upgrade. In essence I want to see there be alien upgrade slots (1 per hive). So if you want to be an uber sneaky skulk and you have two hives you can choose celerity and silence and those would be your two upgrades. It allows for much greater flexibility for the alien team. It also eliminates the "omg what noob dropped SC WTF?" It borrows from combat in that you can choose your upgrade but it would be tied to the hive so you are rewarded for defending that hive.
Additionally, when you get the second hive up you can choose another upgrade. In essence I want to see there be alien upgrade slots (1 per hive). So if you want to be an uber sneaky skulk and you have two hives you can choose celerity and silence and those would be your two upgrades. It allows for much greater flexibility for the alien team. It also eliminates the "omg what noob dropped SC WTF?" It borrows from combat in that you can choose your upgrade but it would be tied to the hive so you are rewarded for defending that hive.
Comments
I dont know if it would be good or not, but doing this would unleash the power of the chambers themselves, all the time. Could be almost too powerful for the aliens.
Of course, SCs and DCs would gain the most out of this. SCs would be placed haphazardly as usual but the comm wouldn't be scan-happy; DCs would serve their awesome healing purpose but without losing the Cel ability in early game.
I dont know, it seems like it would take away from the game a lot. It would definitely take away from the feeling of a raw power upgrade when you get the 2nd hive (hive abilities plus new chambers = awesome).
It also would cause a few problems.
When the 2nd hive goes down, aliens lose the ability to have two upgrades. This significantly lowers their chance of a comback.
I think i prefer the current method. Use LUA and try it out yourself for a bit.
It would suck as the marines to go out and have to face invisible gorges AND silent skulks from the beginning of the game...it takes away a big part of the commander's ability to make a strategy too, because the marines have different attack plans based on what chamber the aliens drop first. If it didn't interfere with the marines like that, then I would say it's not such a bad idea...maybe.
As far as being overpowered, well some of the advantages the aliens will get is flexibility to be sure. Since they would still only be getting one upgrade per hive, most of the benefits would be from the effects from the chambers themselves, i.e. Sensory chambers cloaking rooms, Movement chambers giving adrenaline, and Defense chambers healing. Also part of the game for marines is finding out what chambers the aliens are using and try to counter them with marine technology. If there is a possible chance at all three chambers, it may prove difficult to the marines.
The biggest reason I like this idea, is the fact that so many strategies aren't even tried because people are afraid of trying something new or getting yelled at. If the type of chambers dropped were unconnected to the hives, all new strategies could be formulated much easier in pugs, and people would be more open to trying them.
This could defenetly be a nice addition to NS2, but I'm sure would need alot of testing to see how it works.
Aliens absolutely do feel losing the 2nd hive; mostly by losing their 3rd ability, but also by the sudden preciousness of the 2nd chamber. If they were smart or lucky, they'd still have all 3 up and safe. If not, then that sucks.
But when the aliens go down to one hive, they're in deep trouble. They're <u>losing</u>. The addition of +use on the hive makes 1-hive aliens have far more of a comeback potential, which is fantastic, but I believe that an equally important aspect of this is the second chamber. Being a cel+regen fade, or a cel+focus fade, is FAR better at one hive than being a cel fade alone, and the fade is the most important unit in repelling the attack on the next hive.
You'd be taking all that away with unchained chambers, and replacing it with the ability to drop any chamber. Keep in mind that unchained chambers still require the resources to drop them, and since we're talking finite resources, that would basically be res that would otherwise have been spent on lifeforms, rts or defensive OCs. Yes, perhaps a DC under the hive would help quite a bit, but I'd never choose that ability over the ability to have a second upgrade for every alien on my team.
I think you had two separate arguments here. One was that you were considering unchained chambers; and the second was the diversity that could be found with being able to use multiple upgrades from the same tree (silence + celerity). While I disagree with unchained chambers, I could picture multiple upgrades adding a lot to the dynamics.
Perhaps (if the current system was kept), when you have two hives, you could upgrade say Celerity, but then spend 2 res to allow your second upgrade to be from the same tree? I.e., at 2 hives, cel + regen would cost nothing, but cel + silence would cost 2?
One way to balance it would be to limit or change the upgrade chambers area of effect. For instance, a sensory chamber would only give cloaking around a smaller area. Or have the effects of each chamber increase with each hive: dcs would heal more with each hive, mcs would allow you to generate adrenaline quicker, and scs would cloak more of an area.
Also, like Stix mentioned you still have to physically build the chambers. Sometimes it is hard enough to get gorges to drop one chamber... let alone 3.
I think with allowing the marines to purchase their own weapons allows them to combat those upgrades (you can still see skulks with silence and hear gorges with cloaking). Also, the comm still can counter these upgrades but he would have to prioritize which one he wants to counter first (should i get mt, or more armor). I really want to see more game dynamics than just the same old tired strategies.
And yes Stix I would like to see multiple upgrades from the same tree regardless of what happens with unchained chambers.
the problem with this is they wudnt be able to strategically place lots of chambers for their spatial effects early in game, but im not sure how often this happens anyway. in the mid to late game the aliens will drop mcs dcs and scs at choke points and in each hive so they can cloak everything, increase healing etc so the amount of chambers per hive would have to reflect this while limiting them to getting all their upgrades to fast.
of course the other limiting factor is res. early game the alien team sometimes struggles to budget 3 chambers possibly due to poor team work. if any chambers were aloud would they be able to afford 3 of each any way or would they choose to focus on one or two types that they cud afford
I think 1 Upgrade per hive, but not limiting the number or type of chambers dropped would be an excellent system.
The number of chambers are still limited by the amount of res you get, so if everyone drops whatever chamber they like, noone will have res. But people won't be limited in the strategies they try, or won't be afraid of getting yelled at for dropping SC first.
I think 1 Upgrade per hive, but not limiting the number or type of chambers dropped would be an excellent system.
The number of chambers are still limited by the amount of res you get, so if everyone drops whatever chamber they like, noone will have res. But people won't be limited in the strategies they try, or won't be afraid of getting yelled at for dropping SC first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mmm... Not being yelled at... That sounds so good. Gorges and Commanders everywhere dream of a day when such a game exists for them.
I would like a combination, sometimes I want a lesser silence, and celerity and so on, so here we go, here are my suggestions on this very cool "unchained chambers" idea, especially what Wyattx3 and Invader Zim said:
1) Have levels of a upgrade
2) Have level one in a chamber ability cost = x amount of res
3) Have next chamber ability cost = (level# multiplied by y amount of res + cost of first level chamber ability)
4) Have each Hive built lower the cost by z percentage
Or something like that. Basicly, if done right, sure, you can have that super ability Kharaa but it is going to cost some gorges 90 resources, plus your own pool of resource eaten up by progressively more expensive levels of abilities.
This way, all Kharaa upgrade strategies are possible, but you still get individual choice on top of needing to decide what life form to go to and the hives still make them very valuable to quick progression in the abilities.
Hope this makes sense, I think it is the best of what you are both proposing.
Another one goes up?
Or are you referring to how abilities can diminish like right now. Well, I suppose, I would let the Kharaa still alive keep their abilities, they already "evolved", but I would not let newly spawned have access to the level that chamber was providing until another one goes up again. Makes sense I hope. Should give Kharaa lots of fighting chances then, unlike the current: "Oh, you evolved, but here, it just disappears with that structure" unlike marines who get to keep a weapon even if the structure that gave it to them is gone. I never really understood the "poof - its gone sucker, sucks to be you for still be alive and well!" with marine tech being taken down either, like somehow their suits of armor and weapons get "de-engineered".
You'd still only be able to have one upgrade at a time if I read the OP correctly.
Someone drops three DC's; you upgrade carapace.
The three DC's are killed and someone drops three SC's.
You can either evolve to get Focus and lose cara or keep cara(until you die) and forget about focus until the second hive is up.