Welding
Ramael
Join Date: 2007-09-15 Member: 62304Members
Join Date: 2007-09-15 Member: 62304Members
Just an idea. When you think about welding though, what does it mean. When a marine welds something, depending on the thing, they can weld something open, or weld something close, or simply repair something. When it comes to welding open and closed doors on maps however, aliens have no control over this what so ever.
I makes sense to me that when a marine welds a door closed, or seals it basically, that with enough work and alien should be able to break the seal and make it become open again. Im not saying to go all out and break the metal door/gate/vent, but just the seal and have it open back up. Who knows, maybe we can have them push the vents open after breaking the seal. It could definately add a little thriller effect to the game.
Cornered in a dark room with no exit. Nothing between you and the enemy expect a thick steel door, sealed air tight... or is it... (imagine the screeching of metal on metal as the aliens force the doors open)
It would take a little work to break open a door, and if need be it can be resealed. The idea of marines pushing open doors, depending on the door, could also make the game a bit more relistic also. After all, on an abandoned space station, as many as there are in real life, how often would you expect the doors to be fully functional. We've already got flickering lights and leaking pipes. In a previous post i also mentioned gravity plating issues and atmosphere leaks. Search it up if you want. You cant expect everything to work on a station thats been lacking in maintenance.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I makes sense to me that when a marine welds a door closed, or seals it basically, that with enough work and alien should be able to break the seal and make it become open again. Im not saying to go all out and break the metal door/gate/vent, but just the seal and have it open back up. Who knows, maybe we can have them push the vents open after breaking the seal. It could definately add a little thriller effect to the game.
Cornered in a dark room with no exit. Nothing between you and the enemy expect a thick steel door, sealed air tight... or is it... (imagine the screeching of metal on metal as the aliens force the doors open)
It would take a little work to break open a door, and if need be it can be resealed. The idea of marines pushing open doors, depending on the door, could also make the game a bit more relistic also. After all, on an abandoned space station, as many as there are in real life, how often would you expect the doors to be fully functional. We've already got flickering lights and leaking pipes. In a previous post i also mentioned gravity plating issues and atmosphere leaks. Search it up if you want. You cant expect everything to work on a station thats been lacking in maintenance.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Comments
My thoughts on the door welding so as to avoid "Its opening! Weld it again!" where it turns the game into a boring stalemate, would be that the Onos, which the Kharaa will get eventually if the Marines don't go on the offensive, would smash through any number of things.
When it comes to vents being welded shut, a good skulk Leap should put them right through that grate. If weld a plate over the opening, get some acid on that.
Permanently destroy the closed doors, vents seals, and other points of entry. The "locking down" of areas should only be a delaying tactic or a strategy to protect your flank, so that the game really ends up in some intense pulse pounding action later.
Though, who knows just how useful locking this or that will be, when a lerk still finds a way to gas you or that fade seemingly appears out of no where. Better not be too focused on welding when that Dynamic Infestation needs burning and those Hives need blowing up! I could see it now:
Commander: "Okay, lets get into position and seige that hive!"
Marine: "Sorry sir, we can't..."
Commander: "Why the hell not! We lose if we don't kill them now!"
Marine: "Jimmy welded the door shut"
Commander: "..."
Marine: "And the other one too."
Commander: "OMG. Okay, fine, wait there while the res builds up enough that I can research phase gates and then get one in there to you."
Marine: "I think I hear a Kharaa chuckling on the other side, sir"
Commander: "I hear one outside here too. And the thought crossed my mind you would get out of there sooner if you just killed yourself ... oh well, tonight we dine in ..."
Marine: "Hell, sir, hell."
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I like the idea of welding / locking doors, building barricades out of debris, repairing the station, and so on but it needs to be said that there is no underestimating the power of stupidity at times. Let the weld/locks be a one time use kind of thing, so we still get our moments of "Quick! Lock this door down Marine! The Onos is coming! Run!" or "Weld this and this, and we will draw the Kharaa into this air lock here ..." <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> but avoid prolonged matches just for the sake of welding.
As on the "zero gravity rooms" thread the features discussed make more sense as one-time use events. So as not to make mini-games out of welding (marine) and smashing doors down (alien), merely to be small highlights that add to the action instead of distractions from it.
Seems to be the life of ground troops can be made far more interesting and diverse this way without changing the core dynamics of the game.
If anyone was dead set on having tougher obstacles you could also possibly have reinforced doors, which you could be placed sparingly among the map that could take longer to seal up but might actually be able to delay lower lifeforms for a considerable amount of time, while actually delaying an onos for a couple of hits. I imagine these would only be placed at key choke points at the midpoints of the map, so if they are taken by one side or the other that they are not quickly or easily taken back, or just used in maps like siege maps or other maps where your looking more for fun then serious places.
I was thinking about what Ramael was originally saying, I think it makes more sense to have a door be able to be re-welded closed and then opened again by aliens, and then re-welded shut, and so on. Maybe this could happen by aliens having to get to the point of the weld and chomp at that, or actually causing a certain amount of damage to the door so it pops open.
This could involve having to get to the other side of the door by taking a different route in, for these type of door/vents, I suggest not having the “bite time†very long but have the weld time slightly longer.
Maybe have doors with a really high damage resistance. So lower life forms take a very long time to bite through, but as soon as a higher life form comes along they can break through in less time. But make welding time quite short for important vents/doors that mappers might feel need to be closed for the marines to ever have a chance of winning the game. Perhaps these vents/doors might be inside the marines base, or just outside and might be connected to vents that lead right to a hive. So they might be important to keep closed until the marines get JP and can use them as a way of getting into the hive easily.
Perhaps marines can then weld open a door after it has been welded shut. Or aliens can then bite open a door so it can’t be welded shut again.
I think no matter what mappers choose to do; they should defiantly have the option for both sides to have a type of weld. For marines this should be welding and for aliens it should be biting/attacking/breaking. I believe this is already possible in source, in fact isn’t it seen in some siege maps already, where aliens can break through doors by biting, although if a marine shoots at the door it helps the aliens open the door <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Hmm, I pictured a group of marines placing a shaped charge and blowing a door off its hinges. The former doors narrowly miss a skulk waiting to ambush and the hallway is filled with Dynamic Infestation...
I picture a Onos charging and rending a door off its hinges. A marine ducks and the door flies by him and smashes into the unfortunate marine behind him...
I picture a marine sprinting, running for his life, all thought of fighting gone out of him, sweat pouring off his chin. He ducks inside a galley room and slams the door shut, and runs a quick weld down the join of the door. Panting, he puts his back to the door, and he doesn't hear anything and breathes a sigh of relief - of course, just then the metal of the door screeches and a fade appendage juts through just inches from his head. At the same moment, metal screeches as a skulk bursts through a vent grating on the wall near the ceiling in a leap, crashing into the chairs around the dining table, sending them toppling. Inside the vent shaft, Kharaa chuckling can be heard, and its getting closer...
I picture a door malfunctioning, the Dynamic Infestation jamming it on the other side, so it only opens just wide enough for a single marine to squeeze through - like the welcoming jaws of death. Which is appropriate, since the Dynamic Infestation starts spreading past the seal and jams the door open - on top of the obvious choke point and ambush point it has just become...
I picture a marine group, thinking they are so smart welding the door shut, only to find themselves trapped in a dead end by their own design when the Kharaa un-cloak behind them...
It would be fun to see a group of Marines able to seal themselves into a dead end <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
|| <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skulk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::skulk::" border="0" alt="skulk.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> "Ahhhhhh!" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" /> ||
I wouldn't want that to get crazy complex and annoying but the idea of then jamming the openings or reinforcing it comes into play because of the physics in source. For a vent I believe most of them seal up like the storm shutters in "Aliens" or something similar. I liked seeing so many wield points but it seemed to take a lot out of the game once you had closed them all since so much of the vents were really kind of useless at that point. I like the idea of a skulk being able to Leap at them and possibly knocking them open enough to get through. I think it would add a lot to the game to see them get back into areas like that. Of course wielding them open seems rather strange since really you would be repairing a control panel so they would operate. I don't think you need a tech class or anything but it would be nice to see an alternate way to close them or reopen them for Jetpackers.
I would really just like to see all the options the new physics and props that source allows and works with to really be used. There is so much from movies and fiction and such that could be really implemented now into NS2 to add to the atmosphere and the gameplay. To see a normal game once things are wielded open or closed that is it. That area or vent is no longer usable or now it's open and there's nothing else that you can or need to do wielding wise to the map at that point. I have enjoyed the maps like Metal that allow you to repair an elevator or a door but it seems like many times you don't need to do so in the game. I hope we see more of that in NS2. Having to repair more of the map because of DI seems like it would be an intersting challange to the marines.
Its not really an issue, it is just what could happen when a marine "locks" a door with the welder, especially if they don't have a key to open it up again (see: shaped explosives or cutting torch). Think about it, what used to be a hallway, if you close the door and make it so it doesn't open, you effectively have put yourself in a dead end of your own design, as the player. This would be funny to see as a Kharaa, as I would then proceed to attack as I am sure you just cut off your only avenue of retreat from my bites and claws.
I brought it up because I didn't want people to think the sword didn't have 2 edges when it comes to welding doors shut. Plus, to further balance it, I would destroy doors like crazy as the Kharaa, if I didn't want them "locked". Mmm, Onos Charge...
Awesome I can't wait <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<img src="http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1275/wiiweldermh7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The level designer has control over whether there is a door there in the first place. If there is no door, there is no welding. Level designers choose where to put such things, as with all access to all locations. If there was a hallway, with a 2 doors, and both doors could be welded closed, or a hallway with a door like you say, then this isn't by the players design, this is because the mapper put that function in and allows it to happen.
Yes, mappers place the doors, but how could a mapper possibly plan for which doors a marine would choose to weld or not weld? Make a map with no doors at all? We have that "fun" in NS1 already, because apparently in the future there are no concerns about the need to section places off in the event of a hull breach it seems or any need for privacy.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Ok, well, based on NS 1 mapping where there weren't many doors the mapper would have had greater control. If for NS2, the mapper makes the level door city, then yes, control over these aspects might be more difficult.
However, if more areas were to have doors in case of hull breach, privacy etc, all these areas would also have ventilation <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
If your lucky enough, and have a welder at the time. . .
weld out of an onoses belly!
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nanites.
If your lucky enough, and have a welder at the time. . .
weld out of an onoses belly!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you certainly had the first part right lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
*commander drops 8 welders instead of hmgs* onons = dead
Exactly, by promoting doors I want to see more ventilation too, and implemented in a believable (some call this by the word realistic) fashion. I want skulks to rule the air ways! Muhahaha! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1650513:date=Sep 19 2007, 01:57 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Sep 19 2007, 01:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nanites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love nanites, I really do. They probably kick the ass of micro meteorite holes all the time. But handling a major hull breach, explosive or implosive?
One of the latest maps actually had a visible massive hull breach and you know what had stopped it from taking out the entire map? There was a force field. It was really cool, you could see stuff floating in space just beyond it. If anyone remembers the name of that map, please help me out and post it. I don't think it was Machina, the one with the chasm in the middle.
And how do nanites solve a officer's need for privacy from his crew? *shrug*
Their are some human needs that are solved better by a door, even a curtain, than little nano sized robots that do what they are programed to on a very micro scale.
so if you're a HA being disgested you can probably do about 100 damange in the time you are in the onos - i guess thats not really significant - but then are you damaging the onos enough to even counter act the healing its getting from digesting you? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I guess it could be funny seeing it happen every now and then, like when an onos is knifed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<b>Btw on the note of hull breach:</b>
One could create doors which are not interactive and open. These will look like blast doors and close up when a section is in danger, fire decompression being the most important problem I think. And closed versions of this doors to insinuate there is way more to the map then is shown to the player.
At least that's how I did it. A question a buddy of mine had was:"where are the restrooms and showers in this game". I told him: "on another deck or closed off area". He didn't like that answer and told me there should be signs on the walls or something showing you where they are <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
NS is all about atmosphere (well 1.04 was) and these little things really add to the game imho, same goes for stuff left behind by the overrun/escaped crew...
Anyway welding FTW <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1347/1441906104_5bbd1c013b_o.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
When I am playing, I can't see jack. Half the time I hate using it, and if I do, in real life I put my hand up so I am not blinded by my monitor! Maybe in Ns2 the marines has upgrades [even in the year 2007 welders have face shields....]