Origin...
killkrazy
Join Date: 2007-09-10 Member: 62238Members
Join Date: 2007-09-10 Member: 62238Members
So, one thing that bothered me about (most) Natural Selection maps was:
<u><b>Where the heck did the Marines come from?</b></u>
Most of the maps (at least the original maps) all had the marines start in a room or area with no obvious reason or explanation for them being there... did they get teleported in? dropped by a ship? were they just strolling by?
This is merely a continuity and aesthetic suggestion / idea, but I would like to see the developers put a little effort into the story (which i really thought was one of the best things about NS, the "duty manual" type thing that shipped with the game, etc...) by having Marine's start zones have some discernible entry point to the map.
As I was aware (I haven't played NS for a long time now, but eagerly await NS2) the marines were going to "places" where they heard about the Kharaa destroying colonies or something along those lines and were investigating / eliminating.
NS2 will be more along the lines of fighting a battle, but I don't believe in terms of story it makes much sense the marines "just being" at the place the Kharaa have over-run... there must be a way they got there, and this is what I suggest, just a little bit of continuity in the start-areas for marines.
unless, of course, they were just "phased" into the area, but... couldn't they just phase into the hive and win before the game starts? or phase a nuke down into the hive :>
My suggestion would be just to have like a "pre-fab" drop-ship or vehicle at the start zone, with an entry point form the out-side world(s)... and not to start marines in closed-in rooms with no obvious way of them arriving there.
I hope some of you regulars agree with me, and if any of my information is wrong, please let me know, as I say, long time since I played... please refrain from flaming me for ignorance <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<u><b>Where the heck did the Marines come from?</b></u>
Most of the maps (at least the original maps) all had the marines start in a room or area with no obvious reason or explanation for them being there... did they get teleported in? dropped by a ship? were they just strolling by?
This is merely a continuity and aesthetic suggestion / idea, but I would like to see the developers put a little effort into the story (which i really thought was one of the best things about NS, the "duty manual" type thing that shipped with the game, etc...) by having Marine's start zones have some discernible entry point to the map.
As I was aware (I haven't played NS for a long time now, but eagerly await NS2) the marines were going to "places" where they heard about the Kharaa destroying colonies or something along those lines and were investigating / eliminating.
NS2 will be more along the lines of fighting a battle, but I don't believe in terms of story it makes much sense the marines "just being" at the place the Kharaa have over-run... there must be a way they got there, and this is what I suggest, just a little bit of continuity in the start-areas for marines.
unless, of course, they were just "phased" into the area, but... couldn't they just phase into the hive and win before the game starts? or phase a nuke down into the hive :>
My suggestion would be just to have like a "pre-fab" drop-ship or vehicle at the start zone, with an entry point form the out-side world(s)... and not to start marines in closed-in rooms with no obvious way of them arriving there.
I hope some of you regulars agree with me, and if any of my information is wrong, please let me know, as I say, long time since I played... please refrain from flaming me for ignorance <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Comments
NS maps need more windows and things to make us feel like were out in space...
Games like CS and DoD have things like this, some maps have a tank busting through gates at spawns, dod_anzio's allied spawn is a nice example of the work they put in to make it believeable, instead of spawning in some random street, they made a whole beach that really has no involvement at all in gameplay, but sure does make it feel a whole lot better.
NS maps have very few, sometimes no windows, sometimes feels like you could be in some futuristic office building or some other place on earth, and NS2 maps should defenetly be different.
I can't imagine they do this every time though, some sort of landmark on the marine start would be appreciated.
I would like to suggest however, that perhaps a ready room after the ready room be available for the teams, that shows for only however long the server desires, to give the impression of prep before insertion by the TSA Marine's ship or the Kharaa's Hive Mind.
Just a thought, one that I think I could have sworn I have read in another thread in the Idea forums before, but unfortunately I am having some trouble finding it right now, been a while since I read it and I don't remember the thread title.
Here's an idea though, what if Dynamic Infestation screws with the beacon signal a bit? This could force the marines to make a hardpoint entry: breach hull, seal, and hardwire the signal for insertion by teleport to beacon signal.
But eitherway, my suggestion still stands, make the marine entrance points to maps a little more obvious, ofcourse the aliens form of entry is history, they've been there for a while... that's not really relevant... but the marines "just arrived" to wipe them out, so it makes sense that there should be some signs they just arrived:)
I like the idea by CanadianWolverine... perhaps a generic "ready room" which could be their orbital ship, and when the game starts, the marines are "phased in" or if the map calls for a drop-ship (planetary atmosphere causing interference with the molecular transphasing signal blah) then the marines start inside a Drop-Ship bay and the bay-door opens when the round begins.
or perhaps the marines used the front door (dropped / phased out-side of complex) then perhaps the game would start with the front-door closing behind the marines while they are frozen in place.
It may not be such a big-deal to the people (including me) who played the game a lot, and after months / years of play you forget all the aesthetic / unique feelings for the game's makeup and focus on the gameplay instead... but as it is often said "You only get one chance to make a first impression." and that's where the aesthetics really count!
My main issue with most of the maps at the moment is the vents. They are really un-vent-like, sure they look like a vent, but they don't feel like a real vent. A real vent would go somewhere, not just link two places together. Almost all the vents at the moment go from A to B, they rarely have sections where you can see into other areas without getting into them or T junctions with vents going upwards to suggest other levels of the map.
I would like to see vents having more junctions in them that perhaps have mesh in front of them to stop players going out of the actual map. And more vents running into a room, even if a player can’t actually get into that room. If you look at most sci-fi films, they have loads of vents, across the whole roof, or running along a wall or floors. Even most offices have vents in the ceilings that you don’t see but are there.
I want to see more vents, corridors and windows that make a map feel larger.
But just for you killkrazy, if they don’t include a drop ship prefab in the NS2TR I will make one and stuff it in the map I make and then give it out to the community. I am probably going to make one a bit like <a href="http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/spacemarines/drop2.jpg" target="_blank">this</a> any way. But if I have time and think it will fit in my map, I’ll make one that looks similar to the one in Aliens, with an NS2 twist.
and I fully agree with your views on the vents, it's off topic but I think the original topic has been covered enough... anywho:
I've seen all the concept by Cory (which is amazing) with prefabs and level-design ideas... and that's what got me thinking on the start-areas <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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I believe possibly one of the reasons vents are misrepresented so much is because of the way they were used in HL1... as a way to get from A to B in a LINEAR game environment, but NS(2) is not a linear environment at all, and since the environment is supposed to be a fully-(well, abandoned)-operational spaceship / colony base, then the vents would... believe it or not, be ventilating the place, instead of giving quick access from one room to another... heh.
It's hard to define it as a suggestion for the game though, unless it's aimed solely at the maps released with the game and at the "map guidelines" mappers would follow to fit the continuity of the game's aesthetic.
But in conclusion: Vents should either be non-usable, or implemented as a fully-operational vent system, with a hub (filter, extraction fans, power reactor, etc) and an extensive system which would give access (or just a spy-hole) to each and every room (and non-room)... would also mean that vent-camping by marines would be less attractive since the little lerky / skulky could go... literally... anywhere on the map. It could get tricky though I guess if the skulks chose to just spend all their time running around out of the marine's reach (until jetpacks)... but contrary: the marines could block almost all the vents or strategically re-route them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also, not just plain simple cube vents, I wanna see vents <a href="http://home.exetel.com.au/kalopsia/uploaded_images/nova2-712582.JPG" target="_blank">like this example by Kalopsia</a>, see the rest <a href="http://home.exetel.com.au/kalopsia/" target="_blank">here</a>. It’s a pretty cool start to an NS map!
or even like a little marine pod, which has attatched to the side of spaceship, then an airlock opens at the beginning.
itd be nice to see marines have a few different start locations too, by choice or random.
nanites...? did you just make that up?
^^^^ the purple bits are the vents... the 3 round areas (purple) are the vent hubs... vents go across the top or along the side of rooms...
something like that, its a bit of work, but it adds so much to the level.
obviously if some bits were unfair, the map designer can just put a block of some sorts in, instead of removing a whole section, just block it off.
that's a quick drawing of a map i made so i could show the vent system thingy :> nothing real / whatever
It'd be super-sweet if aliens / humans in vents made "lots of noise" like you see in movies (clunk, clunk) and the material was piercable by bullets, so marines could in theory shoot skulks who are skuttering around in the vent system inside a room or something <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
It'd be super-sweet if aliens / humans in vents made "lots of noise" like you see in movies (clunk, clunk) and the material was piercable by bullets, so marines could in theory shoot skulks who are skuttering around in the vent system inside a room or something <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By the same token, if that is the kind of material the vents were made of, the Kharaa or a Marine with the right tool, should be able to break into or out of a vent easily.
Though, I'm not so sure that a space faring people make their life giving air circulation / evacuating system out of such flimsy stuff. Its the kind of system you wouldn't want to easily break with micro-meteorites or something.
Space is a pretty scary place and your stuff needs to be pretty tough to stand up to the abuse. Even then, I still see Kharaa being able to break through a lot of materials just so they can get at the humans and alternatively I would think the humans would be very interested in being able to repair a lot of those materials.
You must be new here...
Nice map sketch <b>killkrazy</b>! I'd like to play it.
I thought "I'll just make a tiny little sketch to show what i mean, it wont make any sense since it'll never be a real map or anything"...
then I went through 3 pieces of paper because I got the proportions a little incorrect,
threw in a rail-way to use the rail-car (bottom-left)...
designed an under-ground hive-cave,
2 other hive locations,
a marine landing-pad (middle-right)
plenty of resource-node points...
etc... it got waaaaaaay out of hand ^^
but I hope my original point was visible, that if mappers put effort into conveying a real-world by putting tv-screens, bio-tubes, rail-cars, mess halls.... etc, then why not a believable ventilation system... and of course like originally started: a sensible and obvious way for the marines to arrive at the out-post / station / space ship <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Nice map sketch <b>killkrazy</b>! I'd like to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Must i?
I've played NS since 1.04, and ive never heard about "nanite friendly areas"
Though, I'm not so sure that a space faring people make their life giving air circulation / evacuating system out of such flimsy stuff. Its the kind of system you wouldn't want to easily break with micro-meteorites or something.
Space is a pretty scary place and your stuff needs to be pretty tough to stand up to the abuse. Even then, I still see Kharaa being able to break through a lot of materials just so they can get at the humans and alternatively I would think the humans would be very interested in being able to repair a lot of those materials.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Saying that most space craft are just millimetres thick in places, often made out of an industrial version of, what is basically, kitchen foil. This is because they need to be as light as possible to save fuel and get into space. Also, most vents in offices are very thin (I’m talking about over head ventilation systems) and can be shot through easily.
But then if you were in space and thought something might get shot at, or you had infinite energy and recourses, you would just build thick walls.
This brings me to another point, it would be nice to see the shooting through doors/thin walls effect that is implemented in CS:S in NS2. I haven’t looked up how it is achieved, but know it’s something to do with each weapon having a penetration value that allows them to go through different thicknesses of walls.
This would allow you to have things like vents that can be shot through, or barricades that can be shot through. Don’t know how useful this would be in NS, but it might make the game a little more interesting and immersive.
Yes or No?
<!--quoteo(post=1649264:date=Sep 13 2007, 02:24 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Sep 13 2007, 02:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nanites are the universal answer to everything unexplainable ie onis climbing ladders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It’s true Stars. But Nanites is just a silly made up word, we should all be talking about Nanotechnology or nanos (as in Six Days in Sanjii) or nano-particles or just plain nano (last two are also from Six Days in Sanjii). Not Nanites, it’s just wrong, you should saying Nanos from ‘nano(s)technology’. But then again I think most of the developers use Nanites.
I've even gone to the process of:
- Creating a CC-tray to move the CC into the marine starting area from the dropship.
- Also created an orbiting frigate on the skybox, which is a combat followup map even.
- And the space door closes when the map starts.
I'd love to see this stuff in NS2 in the official maps.
IMHO the CC looks more like equipment, which the marines take with them into a ship/base and not something on that ship/base. Also it would seem safer to enter the area with a dropship instead of phasing in, this is an infested area we're talking about and the bacteria could verywell interfear with sensors from outside. For all you know you and your precious recon team is phasing into an infested area. Not the ideal place for setting up a base now is it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Dropship > phasing
Nanites is just a sci-fy term for the little robots which can create anything it has a blueprint for in the nanogrid systems, ranging from human tissue to TSA weaponry. Just as Flux-Capacitor can make you travel in time and Dilithium can make your ship go very fast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
but, Nanites is an accepted term for talking about fictional nanometer robots (nano-mite, i believe the term comes from) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanite" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanite</a>
and they are usually referred to as self-replicating and molecular manipulating robots