<!--quoteo(post=1649426:date=Sep 14 2007, 12:28 AM:name=N_3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(N_3 @ Sep 14 2007, 12:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->medspam requires a lot of res and is a justifiable reward for dominating such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure it is justifiable. And its 2 res per drop of med pack, right? Doesn't seem like a whole lot of res to me for what can ammount to invincibility during a med spam.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it still feels as though the DI fighting could sidetrack from the main goal too much. nevertheless, it's almost as if the marines fight the DI to improve the comm's support, but the comm's supporting ability (meds etc) is being majorly nerfed and aimed to fight the DI instead?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I don't think of it like nerfing the Commander, but sharing with the Marine. Commander still drops resupply, the medical supplies and ammunition, but I would like to see the Marine administer both.
And I don't see it as the Commander fighting DI, I see it as the Marine's fighting DI, but the Commander seeks out "options" that the map maker has placed there to assist the Marines. The Kharaa would counter this by marking their territory: Dynamic Infestation.
I geuss it just depends on what you would like to see done with DI. I would like to see it help "draw a line in the sand" and help the Kharaa. I'm not trying to nerf the Commander, I am trying to head off any cat calls of "But what balance would it have on the Kharaa side?"
I also see it like the Marine's getting advantage on their side of the territory as well, what advantages those would be, I would leave up to the mapper to decide.
Altering the commanders role would half to be done carefully. If too much power over resources and stratergy is devolved to the grunts team work could break down. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
micromanagment inmy opinion should be left with the comm but made much quicker and easier with the interface
I defo for making the environment more interactive. At the momment ur only concerned with hives, res points and choke points. Adding more complications to the environment should destract the game from these but it cud make it more interesting.
like having the lights powered by a destuctable generator, that cud be repared with the welder
I recon they should make the coms role more cyber punkesk too. e.g he cud have to hack doors n stuff to move the team around
my experience of commanding is that micromanagemnt does draw u in but its not the most interesting aspect. Coordinating a badass plan is the fun part, if there could be a bigger role in environmental manipulation for the comm that would make it more immersive.
I think most of your ideas so far are brilliant, i'll pick out some that i like the most and elaborate a little.
- 'Aliens' style cameras on Marine helmets providing live first person video to the commander HUD
This could be a research upgrade and/or be affected by the DI.
This would give the commander a better view of what's happening on the front and what the grunts are upto exactly.
Apart from making the commander interface look a lot more powerful, immersive and interactive it could also provide additional information about the Marines individual primary weapons and other potentially useful details like health and ammo.
- Ability to zoom in and out like Supreme Commander (with micro and macro icons)
I always thought the NS1 commander view felt restricted so i would definately welcome such a change.
Another commander enhancing innovation with strategic and tactical level benefits.
- Increased control over the map environment
Makes sense that the commander would be able to control more then just doors and lifts if he can already spawn various items around the map.
Future/NS2 Marine environments would logically have defence mechanisms built in considering the alien threat. With seriously disruptive DI growth being somewhat overlooked by engineers (for game balancing purposes).
Limited prebuilt wall/ceiling mounted turrets that require resources/sufficient power/area control to operate would be a nice advancement and could counter new breeds of faster, stronger and smarter aliens (who could already fly and climb walls to avoid standard turret fire).
- Modified micromanagement (very tricky one, but worth playtesting)
I like the idea of reducing the commanders workload on the micro level and giving the grunts themselves a bigger role (they want to feel important too).
Not sure about your proposed resupply system, but a battlefield series supply role could be given to some of the grunts with the ability to resupply their teammates on the front but not themselves. They could be directly supplied by the commander but it might be less subject to spam/exploitation because it would require two support grunts to supply each other and the other grunts would have incentive to stay close and defend them.
This does free up the commander a little for more macro/strategic tasks such as issuing waypoints/orders and managing the resource economy, research and anything else within their control (map environment, base defence).
- The general indication to the grunts that the commander is watching a specific area is good, not sure about the right method though.
- I'm not sure I agree with the extent of your cyberwarfare/Matrix/Neo idea
The holographic commander although cool and possible in theory might just be too much for the developers. Hacking is very storyline based rather then gameplay orientated, and i think the commander already has system access/control if he can operate doors etc.
Overall your ideas are very thought provoking for me and i would love to see some of them implemented into NS2 in a balanced way.
Well I responded to part of this in a different thread, that was moslty just on the view point. Here's what I like from this.
Added immersion for the Commander and the team working together. More for the commander to do that is optional and does not require them to spam medpacks and ammo More varied options for the commander and the team to play the game and advance. More options for the Marines and definatly more ways to interact with the map. The only map I know of like this is Hera where you can wield the lights back on in the hallway to maintance.
Now I skimped a lot of the posts here so I can't say much more but from what I did read I like this overall. The picture you drew is effective in getting that point across and I do like that option. Personally if it came down to it, it would be nice to research that and have it as a choice. I personally might not use it but others might make use of it.
Thank you for those well thought out posts, clear and concise. I am glad you understand the intention of my thoughts on how to improve the Commander experience.
<!--quoteo(post=1653041:date=Sep 30 2007, 03:44 AM:name=Snazz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Snazz @ Sep 30 2007, 03:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653041"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The general indication to the grunts that the commander is watching a specific area is good, not sure about the right method though.
- I'm not sure I agree with the extent of your cyberwarfare/Matrix/Neo idea
The holographic commander although cool and possible in theory might just be too much for the developers. Hacking is very storyline based rather then gameplay orientated, and i think the commander already has system access/control if he can operate doors etc.
Overall your ideas are very thought provoking for me and i would love to see some of them implemented into NS2 in a balanced way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, I only used some words because I was trying to present a picture in your mind, which I thought anyone who had seen the movie would be familiar with. The idea of a virtual world and having control of it by hacking it and changing factors to your favor.
I am not commited to the holographic Commander, it was only an attempt at a solution to the problem of dropping structures and supplies (and manipulating doors or other objectives) in a 3D enviroment that has vertically stacked floor surfaces. There are other solutions presented, as in this excellent thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=102790" target="_blank">commander perspective</a>
I would also wish that any implementation into NS2 would be in a balanced way and I hope I have shown that with proposed counters on the Kharaa side, in alien life forms breaking parts of the infrastructure (generators?) or the Dynamic Infestation shutting the Nano Grid down, even preventing a Commander from seeing into that part of the map or doing any regular functions with out direct Marine grunt assistance.
While I do like alot of the ideas in this post I think theres a possibility that this could give a commander 'tunnel-vision' ( This maybe just be how I am picturing it in my head, so I'll try to explain).
For example, although some of the micromanagement could be alleviated, If you add too much interaction it will just take too much time messing with the map than developing a strategy.
And as far as micromanagement is concerned, I think it should all stay, but, It needs to be much much faster and simpler.
The commander's role should be first and foremost: Developing of strategy. Secondly, the facilitator of structures, weapons, and technology to the marines. (Including Medpacks and Ammo). And lastly, doing the neccesary tasks needed throughout the map in order to aid the marines who are carrying out your strategy.
Now, although the map orientated tasks are last the point is, Developing strategy should happen automatically and take no additional time than telling your marines what to do, where to do it, and whats happening after that. Much like strategy the weapons, the structures, and technology should come as they're needed. And then all the time the commander does not spend ressupplying, building, upgrading, he would be using the map itself to help the marines in the field.
Now, If there was too much map oriented tasks that the commander needed to handle, there could be a situation where the marines end up waiting for the commander. And if the tasks are too complicated, then it becomes even more daunting for new players than the dropping of meds and ammo and keeping track of upgrades etc. The point is although it will be fun interacting with DI and maps, there needs to be the right balance otherwise commanding will lose its original feel.
But that isn't to say that some parts of commanding don't need to be fixed.
I really believe that having hotkeys would be the best new feature to commanding in NS2. As the commander builds his base he adds things to his on-screen hotkeys. For example after you build your Observatory you add scan to your close personal easy to access aresenal. And I'm always tired of having to leave my marines and go back to base and upgrade, when with hot keys, after you build that armslab, you just click and drag the built armslab over to a hotkey, and you get a nice armslab icon in your hotkeys so that whenever you get the old "Upgrade complete", instead of going back to base clicking on the armslab, and finding out the marines you left died, you just simply click the armslab click the upgrade, and done. Without even having to move the camera.
Hot Keys wouldn't remove micromanagement from the game, it would make it quicker, and easier, but still in the back of the mind of the commander.
As for the different Commander Perspectives, If you are worried about not being able to click on things because of the limited views, there are easier ways to fix things than making it so you have to zoom in change angle, or even become a holographic image. For example, if theres something the commander needs to do on the map itself, why not have in a space next to it a larger button that only the commander can see. Picture an Elevator or a Door, and next to it and above it theres a button about the size of a marine that says "Lift" or "Door" or "Activate", when you hover your cursor over it, it gives a discription of what it does, or even options of what you want to do. For example, a Door, The button would give the option to open/close.
The only reason I dislike other views to the top-down view, is simply its just more to do, moving the camera angle zooming in and out. Not to mention if you take a 3d perspective you could end up blocking your view by things in front of you. I just don't see a good reason why its needed when the top-down view provides everything needed to carry out the job, and still gives you that RTS feel (More so than a 3d perspective imo).
More specifically on your idea about the medpacks, I think this idea should be seriously discussed and not, "Oh i just don't like it," or "Oh its fine the way it is now." If you made the limit of medpacks a marine could carry say three, and he had to hit a button to trigger them, that way its more of a strategic decision for the marine on when to use them. Should I save them for when I get attacked? What if I run out in combat? What if I die from trying to med myself and not kill the skulk? The potential for abuse is already the greatest the way it is right now, medpack spam and you can have invincible marines, where as with this idea, even if the commander spams medpacks its still the marines job to heal himself. And still the commander will still be assisting by ressupplying those marines who call for medpacks. The micromanagement will still be there, it will just be more of an assisting role.
All in all, most of the ideas are good, maybe not exactly the way they area, but no idea starts out perfect.
<!--quoteo(post=1653091:date=Sep 30 2007, 12:12 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wyattx3 @ Sep 30 2007, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All in all, most of the ideas are good, maybe not exactly the way they area, but no idea starts out perfect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. Thank you for that well thought out post.
I can see what you are saying about 'tunnel vision' and I am concerned now that my idea would replace one tunnel vision with another. I was really hoping for more of the result of a more visceral experience sooner for the Commander, as I was also trying to tackle the problem for new Commanders in NS1 not getting that until their first strategic victory, which can often be a long time in coming ( I know it was for me, I was such a noob Com in 2.0 and 3.0). So, as you say, I would want the "hacks" on the map to be something that does not leave the Marines waiting over long or that there are so many sub objective hacks that the real objective of battling the Kharaa gets over looked. In some situations, I see the opposite happening as well, as a Commander waits for a Marine to weld a key point or install a piece of hardware.
Though, come to think of it, how is that wait any different then waiting for a Commander to drop a structure or weapon, and a Commander having to wait for a Marine to do a weld point or touch a stucture to finish building it?
If you have any ideas on other ways a Commander and Marine can basicly work together hand in hand, I would love to hear them. I only wish to see more team work achieved, not less. As in any team work game, some players would just work better together, so I could see some Commanders being voted out for taking too long to hack this or that in the map, not much different than how Commanders are voted out now for not dropping a needed structure, but my hope would be that the hacks are only "enhancements" not required, and so sub objectives, not road bumps to slow the Marines on their way to the hive. I would hope the road bumps are left up to the Kharaa to grow or build or infect.
Oh I left out something, but I was wondering what exactly do you mean by 'hack', obviously the commander is in tune with the various electronics systems throughout the maps, in NS1 the commander was able to open doors, operate lifts by clicking on buttons. But, are you saying the commander must do something before in order to access these things?
If so, I strongly oppose it, seeing as how there would already be a barrier ( Infestation ) to the commander's access to these entities in place. In addition, wouldn't the owners of the facility who want the TSA to eradicate the kharaa help out by giving the commander passwords etc neccesary in order to get the job done. Not every space station, or whatever is going to be some shady operation and the commander would have to hack certain systems, otherwise the TSA wouldn't be there in the first place.
And yeah it is just like waiting for the comm do do other things, but that doesn't mean there should be more, If anything it tells us it shouldn't be like that at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1653102:date=Sep 30 2007, 12:53 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wyattx3 @ Sep 30 2007, 12:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh I left out something, but I was wondering what exactly do you mean by 'hack', obviously the commander is in tune with the various electronics systems throughout the maps, in NS1 the commander was able to open doors, operate lifts by clicking on buttons. But, are you saying the commander must do something before in order to access these things?
If so, I strongly oppose it, seeing as how there would already be a barrier ( Infestation ) to the commander's access to these entities in place. In addition, wouldn't the owners of the facility who want the TSA to eradicate the kharaa help out by giving the commander passwords etc neccesary in order to get the job done. Not every space station, or whatever is going to be some shady operation and the commander would have to hack certain systems, otherwise the TSA wouldn't be there in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, ok, how about instead of 'hack' rerouting? Like the original wiring of where-ever you are isn't meant to do this or that, or it is broken, so to gain access to that broom closet or whatever that has an electronic biometric lock on it needs to be bypassed. Hacking can also entail installing new software or hardware. It is really a catch all word that for my intents and purposes means "make event mapper put there happen".
Have you seen the HL2 mod Zombie Master? In it, the evil influence, a player, clicks on a button, a yellow sphere, hovering over the map. A interface pops up, and it gives you some options, and a cost for those actions. It allows all kinds of traps and mishaps to befall the survivors, the other players, that you are playing against. It can be extremely fun, for both sides. But, you don't have to even use the traps if you don't want to, just spawn various types of zombies, and you can still win.
What I am proposing would be like that, only instead of trying to hinder the marines, you are trying to help them. There might be events you could 'hack' out of the map that are meant to hinder the Kharaa progress as well. Really, I would leave it up to the mapper to decide, much like how our weld points are now.
Also, story wise and even gameplay wise, we have no indication that the original owners of the map have given the marines all the passwords and keys to the place, as otherwise, why would the marines need structures to gather the nanite resources or why would there be points on the map that need welding, instead of say just a click, like a door or elevator button (some of which need to be welded first to use)? And who is to say certain /root privileges or infrastructure haven't been messed with when the original human inhabitants were escaping or being killed?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And yeah it is just like waiting for the comm do do other things, but that doesn't mean there should be more, If anything it tells us it shouldn't be like that at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, shouldn't be like that at all? Then what would you propose the Commander is there for? The Commander need the Marines and the Marines need the Commander, this promotes team work, why would it be bad if there were more ways that they needed each other?
The game as it is now breaks down without a Commander, which happens when people aren't having any fun playing the Commander. If there are any ideas on how to make the Commander experience more fun, so we always have alot of people wanting to play the Commander, I would love to hear them. I'm just trying to thought experiment with a few ideas that I hope would make the Commander more fun to play as, not break the game ... again.
Comments
I'm not sure it is justifiable. And its 2 res per drop of med pack, right? Doesn't seem like a whole lot of res to me for what can ammount to invincibility during a med spam.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it still feels as though the DI fighting could sidetrack from the main goal too much. nevertheless, it's almost as if the marines fight the DI to improve the comm's support, but the comm's supporting ability (meds etc) is being majorly nerfed and aimed to fight the DI instead?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I don't think of it like nerfing the Commander, but sharing with the Marine. Commander still drops resupply, the medical supplies and ammunition, but I would like to see the Marine administer both.
And I don't see it as the Commander fighting DI, I see it as the Marine's fighting DI, but the Commander seeks out "options" that the map maker has placed there to assist the Marines. The Kharaa would counter this by marking their territory: Dynamic Infestation.
I geuss it just depends on what you would like to see done with DI. I would like to see it help "draw a line in the sand" and help the Kharaa. I'm not trying to nerf the Commander, I am trying to head off any cat calls of "But what balance would it have on the Kharaa side?"
I also see it like the Marine's getting advantage on their side of the territory as well, what advantages those would be, I would leave up to the mapper to decide.
micromanagment inmy opinion should be left with the comm but made much quicker and easier with the interface
I defo for making the environment more interactive. At the momment ur only concerned with hives, res points and choke points. Adding more complications to the environment should destract the game from these but it cud make it more interesting.
like having the lights powered by a destuctable generator, that cud be repared with the welder
I recon they should make the coms role more cyber punkesk too. e.g he cud have to hack doors n stuff to move the team around
my experience of commanding is that micromanagemnt does draw u in but its not the most interesting aspect. Coordinating a badass plan is the fun part, if there could be a bigger role in environmental manipulation for the comm that would make it more immersive.
- 'Aliens' style cameras on Marine helmets providing live first person video to the commander HUD
This could be a research upgrade and/or be affected by the DI.
This would give the commander a better view of what's happening on the front and what the grunts are upto exactly.
Apart from making the commander interface look a lot more powerful, immersive and interactive it could also provide additional information about the Marines individual primary weapons and other potentially useful details like health and ammo.
- Ability to zoom in and out like Supreme Commander (with micro and macro icons)
I always thought the NS1 commander view felt restricted so i would definately welcome such a change.
Another commander enhancing innovation with strategic and tactical level benefits.
- Increased control over the map environment
Makes sense that the commander would be able to control more then just doors and lifts if he can already spawn various items around the map.
Future/NS2 Marine environments would logically have defence mechanisms built in considering the alien threat. With seriously disruptive DI growth being somewhat overlooked by engineers (for game balancing purposes).
Limited prebuilt wall/ceiling mounted turrets that require resources/sufficient power/area control to operate would be a nice advancement and could counter new breeds of faster, stronger and smarter aliens (who could already fly and climb walls to avoid standard turret fire).
- Modified micromanagement (very tricky one, but worth playtesting)
I like the idea of reducing the commanders workload on the micro level and giving the grunts themselves a bigger role (they want to feel important too).
Not sure about your proposed resupply system, but a battlefield series supply role could be given to some of the grunts with the ability to resupply their teammates on the front but not themselves. They could be directly supplied by the commander but it might be less subject to spam/exploitation because it would require two support grunts to supply each other and the other grunts would have incentive to stay close and defend them.
This does free up the commander a little for more macro/strategic tasks such as issuing waypoints/orders and managing the resource economy, research and anything else within their control (map environment, base defence).
- The general indication to the grunts that the commander is watching a specific area is good, not sure about the right method though.
- I'm not sure I agree with the extent of your cyberwarfare/Matrix/Neo idea
The holographic commander although cool and possible in theory might just be too much for the developers. Hacking is very storyline based rather then gameplay orientated, and i think the commander already has system access/control if he can operate doors etc.
Overall your ideas are very thought provoking for me and i would love to see some of them implemented into NS2 in a balanced way.
Added immersion for the Commander and the team working together.
More for the commander to do that is optional and does not require them to spam medpacks and ammo
More varied options for the commander and the team to play the game and advance.
More options for the Marines and definatly more ways to interact with the map. The only map I know of like this is Hera where you can wield the lights back on in the hallway to maintance.
Now I skimped a lot of the posts here so I can't say much more but from what I did read I like this overall. The picture you drew is effective in getting that point across and I do like that option. Personally if it came down to it, it would be nice to research that and have it as a choice. I personally might not use it but others might make use of it.
<!--quoteo(post=1653041:date=Sep 30 2007, 03:44 AM:name=Snazz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Snazz @ Sep 30 2007, 03:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653041"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The general indication to the grunts that the commander is watching a specific area is good, not sure about the right method though.
- I'm not sure I agree with the extent of your cyberwarfare/Matrix/Neo idea
The holographic commander although cool and possible in theory might just be too much for the developers. Hacking is very storyline based rather then gameplay orientated, and i think the commander already has system access/control if he can operate doors etc.
Overall your ideas are very thought provoking for me and i would love to see some of them implemented into NS2 in a balanced way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, I only used some words because I was trying to present a picture in your mind, which I thought anyone who had seen the movie would be familiar with. The idea of a virtual world and having control of it by hacking it and changing factors to your favor.
I am not commited to the holographic Commander, it was only an attempt at a solution to the problem of dropping structures and supplies (and manipulating doors or other objectives) in a 3D enviroment that has vertically stacked floor surfaces. There are other solutions presented, as in this excellent thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=102790" target="_blank">commander perspective</a>
I would also wish that any implementation into NS2 would be in a balanced way and I hope I have shown that with proposed counters on the Kharaa side, in alien life forms breaking parts of the infrastructure (generators?) or the Dynamic Infestation shutting the Nano Grid down, even preventing a Commander from seeing into that part of the map or doing any regular functions with out direct Marine grunt assistance.
For example, although some of the micromanagement could be alleviated, If you add too much interaction it will just take too much time messing with the map than developing a strategy.
And as far as micromanagement is concerned, I think it should all stay, but, It needs to be much much faster and simpler.
The commander's role should be first and foremost: Developing of strategy. Secondly, the facilitator of structures, weapons, and technology to the marines. (Including Medpacks and Ammo). And lastly, doing the neccesary tasks needed throughout the map in order to aid the marines who are carrying out your strategy.
Now, although the map orientated tasks are last the point is, Developing strategy should happen automatically and take no additional time than telling your marines what to do, where to do it, and whats happening after that. Much like strategy the weapons, the structures, and technology should come as they're needed. And then all the time the commander does not spend ressupplying, building, upgrading, he would be using the map itself to help the marines in the field.
Now, If there was too much map oriented tasks that the commander needed to handle, there could be a situation where the marines end up waiting for the commander. And if the tasks are too complicated, then it becomes even more daunting for new players than the dropping of meds and ammo and keeping track of upgrades etc. The point is although it will be fun interacting with DI and maps, there needs to be the right balance otherwise commanding will lose its original feel.
But that isn't to say that some parts of commanding don't need to be fixed.
I really believe that having hotkeys would be the best new feature to commanding in NS2. As the commander builds his base he adds things to his on-screen hotkeys. For example after you build your Observatory you add scan to your close personal easy to access aresenal. And I'm always tired of having to leave my marines and go back to base and upgrade, when with hot keys, after you build that armslab, you just click and drag the built armslab over to a hotkey, and you get a nice armslab icon in your hotkeys so that whenever you get the old "Upgrade complete", instead of going back to base clicking on the armslab, and finding out the marines you left died, you just simply click the armslab click the upgrade, and done. Without even having to move the camera.
Hot Keys wouldn't remove micromanagement from the game, it would make it quicker, and easier, but still in the back of the mind of the commander.
As for the different Commander Perspectives, If you are worried about not being able to click on things because of the limited views, there are easier ways to fix things than making it so you have to zoom in change angle, or even become a holographic image. For example, if theres something the commander needs to do on the map itself, why not have in a space next to it a larger button that only the commander can see. Picture an Elevator or a Door, and next to it and above it theres a button about the size of a marine that says "Lift" or "Door" or "Activate", when you hover your cursor over it, it gives a discription of what it does, or even options of what you want to do. For example, a Door, The button would give the option to open/close.
The only reason I dislike other views to the top-down view, is simply its just more to do, moving the camera angle zooming in and out. Not to mention if you take a 3d perspective you could end up blocking your view by things in front of you. I just don't see a good reason why its needed when the top-down view provides everything needed to carry out the job, and still gives you that RTS feel (More so than a 3d perspective imo).
More specifically on your idea about the medpacks, I think this idea should be seriously discussed and not, "Oh i just don't like it," or "Oh its fine the way it is now." If you made the limit of medpacks a marine could carry say three, and he had to hit a button to trigger them, that way its more of a strategic decision for the marine on when to use them. Should I save them for when I get attacked? What if I run out in combat? What if I die from trying to med myself and not kill the skulk? The potential for abuse is already the greatest the way it is right now, medpack spam and you can have invincible marines, where as with this idea, even if the commander spams medpacks its still the marines job to heal himself. And still the commander will still be assisting by ressupplying those marines who call for medpacks. The micromanagement will still be there, it will just be more of an assisting role.
All in all, most of the ideas are good, maybe not exactly the way they area, but no idea starts out perfect.
Exactly. Thank you for that well thought out post.
I can see what you are saying about 'tunnel vision' and I am concerned now that my idea would replace one tunnel vision with another. I was really hoping for more of the result of a more visceral experience sooner for the Commander, as I was also trying to tackle the problem for new Commanders in NS1 not getting that until their first strategic victory, which can often be a long time in coming ( I know it was for me, I was such a noob Com in 2.0 and 3.0). So, as you say, I would want the "hacks" on the map to be something that does not leave the Marines waiting over long or that there are so many sub objective hacks that the real objective of battling the Kharaa gets over looked. In some situations, I see the opposite happening as well, as a Commander waits for a Marine to weld a key point or install a piece of hardware.
Though, come to think of it, how is that wait any different then waiting for a Commander to drop a structure or weapon, and a Commander having to wait for a Marine to do a weld point or touch a stucture to finish building it?
If you have any ideas on other ways a Commander and Marine can basicly work together hand in hand, I would love to hear them. I only wish to see more team work achieved, not less. As in any team work game, some players would just work better together, so I could see some Commanders being voted out for taking too long to hack this or that in the map, not much different than how Commanders are voted out now for not dropping a needed structure, but my hope would be that the hacks are only "enhancements" not required, and so sub objectives, not road bumps to slow the Marines on their way to the hive. I would hope the road bumps are left up to the Kharaa to grow or build or infect.
If so, I strongly oppose it, seeing as how there would already be a barrier ( Infestation ) to the commander's access to these entities in place. In addition, wouldn't the owners of the facility who want the TSA to eradicate the kharaa help out by giving the commander passwords etc neccesary in order to get the job done. Not every space station, or whatever is going to be some shady operation and the commander would have to hack certain systems, otherwise the TSA wouldn't be there in the first place.
And yeah it is just like waiting for the comm do do other things, but that doesn't mean there should be more, If anything it tells us it shouldn't be like that at all.
If so, I strongly oppose it, seeing as how there would already be a barrier ( Infestation ) to the commander's access to these entities in place. In addition, wouldn't the owners of the facility who want the TSA to eradicate the kharaa help out by giving the commander passwords etc neccesary in order to get the job done. Not every space station, or whatever is going to be some shady operation and the commander would have to hack certain systems, otherwise the TSA wouldn't be there in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, ok, how about instead of 'hack' rerouting? Like the original wiring of where-ever you are isn't meant to do this or that, or it is broken, so to gain access to that broom closet or whatever that has an electronic biometric lock on it needs to be bypassed. Hacking can also entail installing new software or hardware. It is really a catch all word that for my intents and purposes means "make event mapper put there happen".
Have you seen the HL2 mod Zombie Master? In it, the evil influence, a player, clicks on a button, a yellow sphere, hovering over the map. A interface pops up, and it gives you some options, and a cost for those actions. It allows all kinds of traps and mishaps to befall the survivors, the other players, that you are playing against. It can be extremely fun, for both sides. But, you don't have to even use the traps if you don't want to, just spawn various types of zombies, and you can still win.
What I am proposing would be like that, only instead of trying to hinder the marines, you are trying to help them. There might be events you could 'hack' out of the map that are meant to hinder the Kharaa progress as well. Really, I would leave it up to the mapper to decide, much like how our weld points are now.
Also, story wise and even gameplay wise, we have no indication that the original owners of the map have given the marines all the passwords and keys to the place, as otherwise, why would the marines need structures to gather the nanite resources or why would there be points on the map that need welding, instead of say just a click, like a door or elevator button (some of which need to be welded first to use)? And who is to say certain /root privileges or infrastructure haven't been messed with when the original human inhabitants were escaping or being killed?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And yeah it is just like waiting for the comm do do other things, but that doesn't mean there should be more, If anything it tells us it shouldn't be like that at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, shouldn't be like that at all? Then what would you propose the Commander is there for? The Commander need the Marines and the Marines need the Commander, this promotes team work, why would it be bad if there were more ways that they needed each other?
The game as it is now breaks down without a Commander, which happens when people aren't having any fun playing the Commander. If there are any ideas on how to make the Commander experience more fun, so we always have alot of people wanting to play the Commander, I would love to hear them. I'm just trying to thought experiment with a few ideas that I hope would make the Commander more fun to play as, not break the game ... again.