Oh, sorry, I forgot too add prone is helpful when having a partner fire over you.
I agree that any player who lacks mobility in a melee fight is going to be Kharaa food.
On the point of atmosphere, I think its important to remember that it has been reported that NS1 Developers "supported" bunny hopping being in the game and had no desire to remove it then. If that is any indication, while it broke the atmosphere for you and me, the Devs must have thought it fit.
Since I don't like bunny hopping but it apparently has a place in NS1, so I am geussing something will be in NS2, I am trying to get it replaced with something better, something that will hopefully be less or not at all atmosphere breaking.
I hope we can come up with something the Devs will find a relatively low cost solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can see prone being useful for the reason you mentioned; on the other hand though if the front rank "crouched" they could still let the rear people shoot over them and the unit as a whole would be more mobile and better able to respond to changes during a contact.
I'm not sure as to the reasoning for bunny-hop support from the Devs... if it was a "balance" thing then I'd much rather see alternate ways of achieving the same end. For example, if Marine "survivability" became an issue I'd have a couple of suggestions:
i) Have bullets knock-back / slow advancing creatures - giving more time to shoot/escape ii) Have some sort of technology upgrade like a personal force shield that could "pulse" and push creatures away briefly - requiring a recharge period before it could be used again. There are tons of ideas here... could have "decoy"/ holograms of Marines like the movie "Total Recall".
If the support was more for atmosphere.. like "Starship Troopers" as I mentioned.. then I guess this just isn't the game for me (which is fine - everyone's idea of fun is different).
I would take flips over bunnyhopping though... if it came down to it - at least some form of movement that isn't as "jarring" to the eye.
<!--quoteo(post=1649508:date=Sep 14 2007, 10:55 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Sep 14 2007, 10:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649508"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know this is a very general definition but I think using Aliens as a reference for play style is too shallow even if the atmosphere is great. What it ultimately boils down to is no matter how you craft the marines the play style of marines will be dictated by the people who play them, and standing still when a alien is barreling towards you doesn't make sense because you're not going to be frozen in fear like the characters in the movies are.
Disclaimer: I suck at bunny hopping and I'm glad that the dev team is going to try to replace it, but I still think my point stands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do indeed have a point as does CanadianWolverine. I think though that the "StarShip Trooper" model seems a bit too "epic" IMO for NS. NS combat tends to take place in very dark/cramped environments versus some sort of planetary invasion type scenario (perhaps I'm thinking more of the movie than the book here) where you have huge outdoor areas that combat takes place in and can picture Marines doing crazy powered-leaps and what not.
So in a nutshell I still favor the SAS type mindset for NS. I think that's why in NS 1 the "upgrade" to a Marine is basically a heavy-armor/mech-like suit that is somewhat ponderous but is much more practical for the environment in which it's meant to see combat in versus a "mobility" suit of some kind.
I don't really see "standing still" in my mind's eye when picturing Aliens - but rather a cautious advance with well placed bursts of fire... or a tense retreat as you're trying to find somewhere / anywhere safer than your current location. I see skill with the firearm as your first and pretty much only realistic defense against something that is much stronger/faster/deadly at close range.
Having said all this though - anything but bunnyhop !
Yes! Anything but bunny hop! Which is why this is good news:
<!--quoteo(post=1648228:date=Sep 8 2007, 11:03 PM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Sep 8 2007, 11:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We will attempt to replace bunnyhopping with something better. Something that is easier to learn (yet still difficult to master), more useful, and at least as fun to use.
I love to bunnyhop, so I know how difficult this will be, but we have some cool ideas and we're confident you'll like them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Oh, sorry, I forgot too add prone is helpful when having a partner fire over you.
I agree that any player who lacks mobility in a melee fight is going to be Kharaa food.
On the point of atmosphere, I think its important to remember that it has been reported that NS1 Developers "supported" bunny hopping being in the game and had no desire to remove it then. If that is any indication, while it broke the atmosphere for you and me, the Devs must have thought it fit.
Since I don't like bunny hopping but it apparently has a place in NS1, so I am geussing something will be in NS2, I am trying to get it replaced with something better, something that will hopefully be less or not at all atmosphere breaking.
I hope we can come up with something the Devs will find a relatively low cost solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can see prone being useful for the reason you mentioned; on the other hand though if the front rank "crouched" they could still let the rear people shoot over them and the unit as a whole would be more mobile and better able to respond to changes during a contact.
I'm not sure as to the reasoning for bunny-hop support from the Devs... if it was a "balance" thing then I'd much rather see alternate ways of achieving the same end. For example, if Marine "survivability" became an issue I'd have a couple of suggestions:
i) Have bullets knock-back / slow advancing creatures - giving more time to shoot/escape
ii) Have some sort of technology upgrade like a personal force shield that could "pulse" and push creatures away briefly - requiring a recharge period before it could be used again. There are tons of ideas here... could have "decoy"/ holograms of Marines like the movie "Total Recall".
If the support was more for atmosphere.. like "Starship Troopers" as I mentioned.. then I guess this just isn't the game for me (which is fine - everyone's idea of fun is different).
I would take flips over bunnyhopping though... if it came down to it - at least some form of movement that isn't as "jarring" to the eye.
Disclaimer: I suck at bunny hopping and I'm glad that the dev team is going to try to replace it, but I still think my point stands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do indeed have a point as does CanadianWolverine. I think though that the "StarShip Trooper" model seems a bit too "epic" IMO for NS. NS combat tends to take place in very dark/cramped environments versus some sort of planetary invasion type scenario (perhaps I'm thinking more of the movie than the book here) where you have huge outdoor areas that combat takes place in and can picture Marines doing crazy powered-leaps and what not.
So in a nutshell I still favor the SAS type mindset for NS. I think that's why in NS 1 the "upgrade" to a Marine is basically a heavy-armor/mech-like suit that is somewhat ponderous but is much more practical for the environment in which it's meant to see combat in versus a "mobility" suit of some kind.
I don't really see "standing still" in my mind's eye when picturing Aliens - but rather a cautious advance with well placed bursts of fire... or a tense retreat as you're trying to find somewhere / anywhere safer than your current location. I see skill with the firearm as your first and pretty much only realistic defense against something that is much stronger/faster/deadly at close range.
Having said all this though - anything but bunnyhop !
<!--quoteo(post=1648228:date=Sep 8 2007, 11:03 PM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Sep 8 2007, 11:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We will attempt to replace bunnyhopping with something better. Something that is easier to learn (yet still difficult to master), more useful, and at least as fun to use.
I love to bunnyhop, so I know how difficult this will be, but we have some cool ideas and we're confident you'll like them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I found this here:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=102543" target="_blank">Please, oh please, keep bunnyhop</a>
Does JJJ1 know about this thread, I wonder...