halo am soz if i missed this idea but i think commander should be able to put up a mini video on his screen while he is look at other places?
think of it this way CCTV security cameras with many mini screens but this one you are able to cap small mini screen on the place that you want to keep on watching
while a bigger screen you can just toggle around
- just an idea -
you can only cap a mini screen on the monitor as long as there is a turrent factory ?
Obviously coming in late, but this is a concern I've had for some time. I haven't really brought it up because I don't think there's a good answer to it and I don't even have suggestions (that don't suck) about how to improve on these points, but I'm bored so why not?
How is UWE going to implement the commander so that the commander makes actual strategic decisions?
Two fundamental strategy elements in a traditional RTS are not present NS1, and due to game mechanics, I can assume they're not present in NS2. The first is a system of counters and the second is economic harassment. Having a system of counters is important because it encourages early game scouting, promotes micro during battles, and the strategic decisions that are made based off of unit counters is really what an RTS boils down to. Economic harassment is important because it's the next step up that can separate the good players from the average players. It's another level added to the game, and if harassment is successful enough you can virtually dictate to your opponent how many resources they can gather and what type of resources they are. Harassment adds more unit variety, strategy, and further tests a player's micro abilities.
Part of the reason why I don't think there's a good answer for this question is because NS is not a RTS, it's a FPS/RTS. In NS1 I was really under the impression having this hybrid genre came at a really high cost to the 'RTS' side of NS. For example, NS1 can't really have a good unit counter system because then the FPS players are not having fun. If the commander sees a lerk, and drops the "super lerk damage gun," that lerk player is going to be upset because his own skill level is going to be overpowered by the game and the unit counter system. So you'll have players upset, but without that counter system the commander isn't really making any dynamic strategic decisions based off what they're seeing happen in the game.
Economic harassment was also lacking in NS1 just due to how resources are gathered. Likewise, I don't really have any suggestion on how to improve upon this, but in most RTS's players may be able to take out a number of resources gathers, even if they're able to just have a couple of their units penetrate an opponent's base, which opens up a world of strategic options. In NS1, this is lacking because the resources towers have so much HP that the respective team is usually able intercept or even stop the attack. In an RTS economic harassment is especially important in the early game, but in NS1 the early game is where the problem really shines though. NS1 didn't have 'resource gathers' and destroying buildings was really boring and really time consuming. Once again though, it kind of has to be this way. Having RT's drop just because a marine attacked it for 10 seconds wouldn't be fun either. (/edit: I should add that when a player would remain as a gorge and travel around the map a great opportunity for economic harassment was presented. Unfortunately I saw most gorges go back to skulk especially as NS1 become older.)
Without these strategic elements, which are dynamic in nature since the decisions made are reacting to what the opposing team is doing, the RTS side of NS1 really fell flat. Commanding was degraded into one or two cookie cutter builds with the rest of your time being spent baby sitting your marines via health, ammo, and weapon drops.
You're confusing the Commander's strategic responsibility with tactical responsibility, which is partitioned to the players on the ground.
While some more interaction from the comm might be nice, the commander is not supposed to be a direct combatant nor the magical spell caster in the sky. He makes strategic decisions and lets the players on the ground perform the tactics necessary to complete the objectives.
<!--quoteo(post=1717302:date=Jul 14 2009, 01:41 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jul 14 2009, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717302"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're confusing the Commander's strategic responsibility with tactical responsibility, which is partitioned to the players on the ground.
While some more interaction from the comm might be nice, the commander is not supposed to be a direct combatant nor the magical spell caster in the sky. He makes strategic decisions and lets the players on the ground perform the tactics necessary to complete the objectives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first part, unit counters, has nothing to do with the units on the ground other than their personal skill in using weapons. The second part, economic harassment, is more of a team effort but one in which the commander is able to greatly assist. I'm unsure what in my post made you think I wanted the commander to be a direct combatant or a magical spell caster and I attempted to tie in how counters/harassment are lacking in NS1 yet are at the very core of just about every RTS game. I tried to be as clear as I could, but if you could specifically point out what was confusing I may be able to reword it.
The gist of my post was that in NS1 the commander just baby sat marines and followed 'cookie-cutter one size fits all' builds. To explain why I thought this way, I took two core aspects from all strategy games and mentioned how they're virtually nonexistent in NS1 in an attempt to add more depth to commanding in NS2.
Sentrysteve: regarding your idea of "economic harassment", take a look at <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106882" target="_blank">this</a> thread of mine. I'll summarize:
Damaged buildings have lower performance. So, in this case of economic harassment, an RT that is damaged will produce less resources than one that is fully functional. Let's say that, between once its health drops below 80%, the production of res ramps down until, say, 50%; past that, performance doesn't drop. At 50% HP, it would mine res at 75% efficiency.
This makes economic harassment a potentially useful tactic.
<!--quoteo(post=1717716:date=Jul 16 2009, 09:13 PM:name=2_of_Eight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2_of_Eight @ Jul 16 2009, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sentrysteve: regarding your idea of "economic harassment", take a look at <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106882" target="_blank">this</a> thread of mine. I'll summarize:
Damaged buildings have lower performance. So, in this case of economic harassment, an RT that is damaged will produce less resources than one that is fully functional. Let's say that, between once its health drops below 80%, the production of res ramps down until, say, 50%; past that, performance doesn't drop. At 50% HP, it would mine res at 75% efficiency.
This makes economic harassment a potentially useful tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just read that thread. While I don't agree with damaged research buildings researching slower, I love the idea of damaged resource gathering buildings gathering slower. That would definitely encourage early game harassment. A+
<!--quoteo(post=1717716:date=Jul 17 2009, 09:13 AM:name=2_of_Eight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2_of_Eight @ Jul 17 2009, 09:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sentrysteve: regarding your idea of "economic harassment", take a look at <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106882" target="_blank">this</a> thread of mine. I'll summarize:
Damaged buildings have lower performance. So, in this case of economic harassment, an RT that is damaged will produce less resources than one that is fully functional. Let's say that, between once its health drops below 80%, the production of res ramps down until, say, 50%; past that, performance doesn't drop. At 50% HP, it would mine res at 75% efficiency.
This makes economic harassment a potentially useful tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> interesting. seems like the formula might go something like this:
efficiency = 1 - (missing hp/total hp)^2
eg. 30% lost hp (i.e. 70% hp) = 1 - 0.3*0.3 = 91% efficiency eg. 50% lost hp (i.e. 50% hp) = 1 - 0.5*0.5 = 75% efficiency eg. 70~71% lost hp (i.e. 29~30% hp) = 1 - 0.70*0.71 = 50% efficiency (min)
<!--quoteo(post=1717967:date=Jul 18 2009, 06:07 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jul 18 2009, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->im not so sure its a good idea to tie effectiveness to health of buildings - you don't want to turn the game into Larry the Welder :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not? We already know that there are weld bots in NS2. Having an commander controlled weld bot would encourage the commander to micro (aka adds skill to the RTS side) while encouraging the marines to defend the weld bot and the aliens to attack the weld bot.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1717987:date=Jul 19 2009, 09:05 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Jul 19 2009, 09:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not? We already know that there are weld bots in NS2. Having an commander controlled weld bot would encourage the commander to micro (aka adds skill to the RTS side) while encouraging the marines to defend the weld bot and the aliens to attack the weld bot.
It actually sounds like a damn good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ahh yeah i forgot about weldbots! well in that case its probably not an issue :) I just wouldn't want to spend 1/3 or 1/2 the game welding things is all - but if the bot will do it then its another way to add more depth to the game
RT effectiveness is an awesome idea. SentrySteve makes two valid observations of the RTS side of NS. The 'resource gatherer effectiveness' idea would perfectly solve the 'economic harassment' problem.
The class counters is true and it's because class counters in an RTS work on units being identical to eachother. In NS each unit is a player and certainly not identical.
If UWE made the game a bit more complex by introducing more damage types you could have an anti-Lerk gun and an anti-Fade gun. But even if the anti-Lerk gun did less relative damage to a Fade, there would have to be some sort of reason for why. Rock-paper-schissors as a term not only describes the relationship between each type, but how each type beats the other. Once you see the visualisations you can remember it immediately because it 'makes sense' that paper can envelop rock to beat it, and that a rock can blunt a scissor edge, and everyone knows scissors cut paper.
The tricky thing about NS is that each unit has a lower HP-to-cost ratio than in an RTS. In NS the most I've ever seen is 32 players on a server and below 5v5 the game isn't really much fun at all. In a typical RTS you will have upwards of 50 per army. If we say NS is balanced for 6v6 this makes the average NS player 8 times more valuable than your average RTS unit, disregarding equipment loadout and class type. But the thing is they die just as quickly as a single RTS unit.
This is why I think increasing the HP of all players could not only make the game more fun in RTS terms, but this comes at the price of slowing down the game and making the FPS generally less fun. Perhaps you're right in saying that FPS/RTS just aren't meant to be together.
--- As an aside, in the original design of Nuclear Dawn there were power generators that controlled the efficiency of buildings. Power could be reduced by hitting buildings, just like in Command & Conquor. But unlike NS it was decided to take away the weapon dropping and let the players purchase them (like in CS), so the commander had less to do than in NS. Later on we came up with an idea to give the commander something to do and that would scale well throughout the round, even initiating the end game. This was much easier to do because the teams were identical.
The idea was 'troop augmentations'. These were essentially very small stat boosts that applied to all players, that in a 1v1 scenario would make a negligible difference but in group situations would make a noticeable difference. Like the Armour and Weapons research in NS they had different levels to research, but unlike the W/A research augs could be turned off and replaced with other aug combinations for different scenarios. But you could only hax a maximum of 3 levels active at any one time. So you could have <i>Nanoshall</i> 1 and <i>Frictionless Magazines</i> 2 active at the same time, or just a single level 3 aug, but you could never have two level 2 augs on at the same time. Then you had three 'aug pools', so the augs operated very similarly to the chambers in NS. You had 9 augs to choose from, but only a maximum of 3 (level 1) augs could be on at a time and each one had to be from a different pool.
Augs could be disabled by power harassment or attacking the upgrade building. This was hopefully going to be what kept the game interesting for commanders all the way through. It was also a good way to differentiate identical teams if they were both in a similar skill bracket and it would have allowed for a lot of flexibility in build orders.
Anyway I hope NS has something fun like this for commanders to do.
<!--quoteo(post=1717720:date=Jul 17 2009, 02:17 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Jul 17 2009, 02:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just read that thread. While I don't agree with damaged research buildings researching slower, I love the idea of damaged resource gathering buildings gathering slower. That would definitely encourage early game harassment. A+<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suggested somewhere that the RTs should be upgradable either by just keeping it undamaged or by commander investment. When damaged, the RT starts losing upgrades. I like the res investment variation more as it allows commander to decide whether he invests in economy. I'll try to illustrate a bit.
The system basis is similar as in Starcraft. If you're familiar with the system, replace the upgrade level with worker saturation on chrystals and you're good to go.
A few basic rules:
- Every RT can be upgraded separately, for example levels from 0 (RT is just built) to 3 (max upgrade). Similar level system as armor/weapon upgrades in NS. Every upgrade increases the res income by certain amount.
- Each upgrade costs more and/or provides less extra income. It's more efficient to have 2x lvl 2 nodes than having nodes of lvl 3 and lvl 1.
- The upgrades are visible in the RT. For example a few extra blocks/tubes visualize the upgrade levels. Similar system as AA and normal armory, except the probably easier to recognize.
- When damaged for certain amount, the RT loses an upgrade. This is visualized by the upgrade part falling off from the RT. The effect is similar as downgrading upgrades, so level 3 RT falls back to level 2 without any advantages or exceptions. The only way to regain upgrades is to pay for them and wait for the research finish again.
-----
So, basically a spread out and evenly upgraded RT section provides maximium income/effiency rate, but it's the most difficult to maintain as aliens can downgrade the nodes by damaging them. Investing in RT upgrades also means more income later on, but less upgrades on marines early on.
A system like this rewards scouting and reacting to the enemy decisions. For example marines might decide to invest little on nodes and a lot on guns and upgrades --> Aliens are defensive early on, but if they survive without massive damage to the nodes, their superior economy pays off later on. Then again if marines invest heavily on economy early on the aliens are the ones playing offensive.
The system is directly copied from Starcraft, but I think it's a good basis at least.
<!--quoteo(post=1719307:date=Jul 25 2009, 01:30 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Jul 25 2009, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea was 'troop augmentations'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Certainly sounds interesting. While trying to think of how an RTS and FPS could be combined and still fun for everyone I thought of an idea pretty similar to ND's old troop augmentations design except the commander would click on individual marines to select which augs that single marine would receive. They'd provide a small temporary boost and have cooldowns, like a short speed boost to have an FPS player escape danger, but I always thought that sounded kind of lame. It turned the commander is a magical person who could buff his teammates for no logical reason.
The other idea I've always had for an RTS/FPS is to just make a game where the two sides are very separate and really only interact with each other during combat. The commander wouldn't really have any direction over the FPS player's upgrades, gear, or abilities as the individual players would select what they want through some XP or money system. The troops, or very weak NPCs with no offensive attack controlled by the commander, would try to cap points which would provide a money boosts for themselves, but the main purpose would be to supply the commander with income. The commander would then use this income to construct buildings which would allow more powerful NPC's to be built. These NPC's would be something like an anti-troop vehicle where the commander would be able to use this to assist FPS players on the ground, however, the enemy commander may make a tank in an attempt to counter the other commander's anti-troop vehicle. If the commander didn't make a tank, then a soldiers on the ground could upgrade to a rocket launchers, mines, etc and solve the problem themselves.
So you would have two sides within one game and each side would be capable of stopping the other. If their rocket troops are rocking our commander's vehicles then our troops could go sniper. If their snipers are rocking our soldiers, then our commander can get armored vehicles or transports. That's the only way I really envision an RTS/FPS truly working, and from a technical standpoint, it sounds like a very hard game to make. In my opinion, you can't have an RTS without unit counters and you can't have the unit counters tied directly to the FPS players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The system is directly copied from Starcraft, but I think it's a good basis at least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The system you described, or damaged RT's resourcing slower, would be massive improvements of what we saw in NS1. At this point, I'd be willing to have either in the game although I don't think x2 level 2's should be better than a level 3 and 1. I could go into why, but we should probably make a different thread for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 06:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi guys. I'm working on the NS2 commander interface at the moment, so I've created this thread to hear your thoughts in general about the NS commander experience so we can improve it as much as possible for NS2.
Ask yourselves questions like:
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair? What do you love and/or hate about commanding? Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why? Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?
Anything goes. Let's hear your thoughts!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I can say that I have played NS for a long time. Since it was first introduced to the gaming community. While I did command a bit and eventually become good enough to win a match without being cursed at time and time again by the soldiers it was still enough work that I preferred being in the field with the action.
A few things that I personally think could help the newcomers and peak the interest of everyone to both get into the chair and have a fair chance once sitting there are listed below.
1. Hot buttons similar to some of the MMO's out there that highlight or flash when something needs attention or is newly available. Rather than having every marine screaming WEAPONS LEVEL 3 IS AVAILABLE!! simply introduce semitransparent reminder tiles with function to complete certain tasks and/or silence them with the click of a mouse.
2. An easier method of following soldiers. I know one issue that I ran into when I used to command which was some time ago I must admit, was the fact that soldiers could often move out of view before you could click on them or request that the complete something.
3. the ability to enter the action somehow. Maybe provide a scout drone with a simple machine gun so that the commander can scout areas of the map and kill an alien or two before sending in single units to die unknowingly. This may sway the game so the aliens would need something similar or some method of defense against this.
4. Maybe a dummy commander view. So that one unsure of being the commander can sit in and observe a commander in action to see how the game is played out from this view rather than going for it a first time and failing.
I would like Resource Towers expanded so they are just one structure, but could be upgraded to have up to two auxiliary structures (aux towers) that increased the effectiveness of the RT for a sizeable investment. They would be vulnerable to harassment and you could lose out on your investment if the aux towers are destroyed before they pay themselves off.
basing on my commander experience, I d like to have more information on a squad when i create one, for example have a summary of each member(hp ammo and pending request). an in-eye miniview of the selected marine would be perfect to have a in battle view being on my chair. Defining an equipment set up per squad with a signal on my screen if this the squad is missing something or if the order I gave them is done. I d like by the way to give a sequence of orders to a squad so when one is done the next one shows up.
I’m sorry if this has already been suggested but how about this.
Player Squad Allocation and Med/Ammo pack Issuing
Commanding players could be made easier if the commander had a tab located on the left perhaps that is slightly translucent which just lists players health and Ammo as a percentage on two respective bars that changes from Green to yellow orange then red. this can be used as a quick way to organise teams as players could be selected from it then ctrl # to issue into squads also this would be used so if a commander has to issue a med pack or Ammunition it can be dropped onto there name in the tab bar so they need not be distracted by aim med packs or locating players. Health and ammunition alerts can be highlighted by a Green or yellow blinking light located at the end of each bar health and ammunition respectively. This could also be used as a quick way of jumping to a marine by selecting there name.
a similar function like this is normally seen in many Sci-Fi movies such as Alien Independence day and such just to display the players Vital signs and Ammunition count
As I’m sure many of you have played MMO style games such as Wow and War where the healers can manage the teams health and such by just by highlighting the bar and working there magic.
This could alleviate some pressure from the commanders chasing players and also encourage them to help multiple people at once across the map. Which would stop allot of people raging at the commander.
Upgrades
as far as upgrades go I never found it to be to much of an issue but perhaps making the buildings have a Auto select key example using the - = [ ] ' # keys to bring the selected buildings menu up. Maybe a verbal warning when the upgrade is completed could be implemented or an upgrade percentage bar located to show active upgrades.
New Commanders
for new commanders the game could have a Recommended upgrade that takes new players along the Tech tree and teaches them the basics or acts as a reminder after they have completed a possible tutorial (I’ am quiet a fan of the idea of a commanding tutorial, I really liked how Americas army had in game licences, so perhaps people could not enter the Command chair until they have passed the tutorial for the command chair?) this stops people who have no experience bringing the entire team down.
as far as the HUD goes stream lining the HUD would be quiet nice but a simpler option would just be to have players be able to Customise the interface for themselves in there Options menu outside of the game i.e. Changing size and positions of objects and menus to account for people with poor eyesight etc.
Waypoints
I’m sure many of you have played the Dawn of war games and other such RTS were they can allocate multiple orders to a squad by holding the SHIFT key and selecting what you want them to do this could be implemented in a similar function for the commanders orders such as, Go hear Weld this door shut repair the RT etc.
The issue that was raised about people ignoring the waypoints this was mostly because they had know incentive to ask for orders because there was no reward in it so how about this, its already been declared people have a personal resource used for buying themselves weapon upgrades, so as an incentive for a players to follow orders is to have a resource reward implemented for following orders.
To stop this being spammed a risk value could be issued to so the further away from marine start the higher the reward this encourages people to follow orders into potentially dangerous areas. This could be scaled at 5/10/15 15 resources being issued for commanders issuing orders into an alien hive, 10 to critical locations and 5 for resource towers. Also to avoid needless spamming have the reward on a hidden timer so after following and completing an order they will not receive a bonus until a fixed period of time has passed I.e. 1 minute.
With a little incentive I believe it could make people function more as a team and follow commanders orders more closely.
as a commander I would like to optimize the communication between the marines and I. Something great would be to choose to which squad I am talking to. For example, by default I speak to all marines. With a hotkey #1, only squad 1 hears what I say, with a hotkey #2 squad2, etc.
The commander would not spoil the 'all marines' channel and would be more precise on the orders he gives.
To be more clear, following is a scenario example:
I want to proceed to a rt flash attack with my squad1 while the squad2 is keeping the attention of the Kharaas. I tell squad1 (via squad1 channel) to come to base for equipment and what rt to destroy and I tell squad2 (via squad2 channel) where to go to settle down and build a pg.
Conclusion: Both squads stay focused on what they do and the commander speech does not bother marines trying to listen to alien movements.
Details: For a communication optimization purpose, the squad should know if the commander is speaking to them through the squad channel or the overall channel.
Suggestion: Maybe the marines could switch between squad channel and overall channel. In squad channel only members of the squad hear what is said.
I really like the idea of multipale ingame voice channels. I would quiet like to see some kind of Vox unit. Maybe make voice chat quieter or distorted due to interferance from the dynamic infestationit would give the game even more depth if your squads Vox unit dies and some one else has to carry it. Maybe heavy armour could have a built in vox unit.
<!--quoteo(post=1722874:date=Aug 14 2009, 10:18 AM:name=iPanda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iPanda @ Aug 14 2009, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really like the idea of multipale ingame voice channels. I would quiet like to see some kind of Vox unit. Maybe make voice chat quieter or distorted due to interferance from the dynamic infestationit would give the game even more depth if your squads Vox unit dies and some one else has to carry it. Maybe heavy armour could have a built in vox unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no.
Multiple lanes of communication only work if they 1) always stay open and 2) you have access to all of them.
Sacrificing gameplay for atmosphere is a no-no. Making marines unable to communicate with the rest of the team is a pain and doesn't add much to the game.
Providing a way to organize communication would be nice, such as all-talk, squad talk, local talk, etc. and some nice color-coding, but hindered communication is a bad idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1718043:date=Jul 18 2009, 09:32 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jul 18 2009, 09:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ahh yeah i forgot about weldbots! well in that case its probably not an issue :) I just wouldn't want to spend 1/3 or 1/2 the game welding things is all - but if the bot will do it then its another way to add more depth to the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The alien team doesn't get weld bots... so are you suggesting the building efficiency only works on Marines structures? that would definitely make the game more interesting. I mean in order to get what the marines get for free *I'm assuming weldbots don't cost any res, though it'd be interesting if they did* aliens have to spend two resources to heal their structures. Man power, sacrificed to dedicate a player to being a gorge which is a less effective combat unit, and the individual resources of the player becoming a gorge. Personally it doesn't really matter to me, I'll be a gorge permanently anyway, cause that's how I roll.
Being able to say "weld me" and have the sound originate from your character would be neat. Also things like "im reloading", "build the ###### rt", "I had sex with your mother"...would all benefit your teammates if they could easily tell where it originated.
I know it's late in the game here, and (sorry) I didn't read the whole thread yet, but it would certainly help "rookie" commanders if there was maybe a "veteran advice" role. The two biggest problems with comms in NS1 were: (on comm side) it has a STEEP learning curve and depending on opponents you may not have time to learn while aliens are advancing and your teammates WILL (intentionally or not) "punish" you if you don't perform well, this tends to intimidate people from playing comm and pushes many of those who try away from getting more experience to improve (on the player side) Playing comm has issues, either the units don't behave as you want, or they're not as good as you are or you're simply "not in the mood" to play comm.
If you allow a player to "suggest" actions to the comm directly (with hotkeys or something, granted I understand the difficulty of what I'm proposing, especially this late in dev) you can avert both issues. If a "field leader" could suggest upgrades (which would then highlight in the comm interface or "suggest" other actions, none of which actually implement, but instead indicate the action to the comm), you give experienced players a way to "not play comm" while still lending their expertise to an eager noob. Marines always had an issue finding GOOD comms. I'm not sure how this balances out with both teams having comms now, but letting a player in the field "help" the comm is one way to let weary comms play a "soldier" while not hurting the team (as much), it can also help overcome the daunting interface issue.
Hmmm...I'm not forum regular, so pardon if this comes a little late.
What I liked: I enjoyed commanding in NS because of the opportunity to influence the overarching strategy of the team in a game and then watching it unfold. E.g. Like deciding whether the team does a strategic move of the base / do an early game rush / seige-in until tech gets up to speed / covert lone wolf seiges on alien bases / etc. It will be even more fantastic if some of the more popular strategies could be communicated to (new) marines in some way so that less words (and time) would be needed to explain the team game plan (because the game moves really FAST).
What I did not like: When there are few players on a server, commanding becomes a hop-in-and-place-your-order deal. Maybe there should be some sort of system whereby if the minimum # of players is not reached, the comm chair is unavailable and have players manage their res usage individually / by voting?
On large maps, the map and mouse movements are slow, especially when you are overseas and the nearest dedicated server is 200 ping away. Perhaps the number of functions could be reduced and more of the graphical elements could be coded to work completely offline to optimise the bandwidth usage?
Hard to target /view areas were irritating. Maybe an ability to rotate the map (and maybe have a 3D wireframe view option?) by dragging your mouse would be nice.
Upgrades are important, but you don't want to worry about making those one-of-many clicks when your team is under attack (which is constant). A queue system which will prompt you when the next upgrade opporunity is available (kinda like MSN Messenger / Skype / <insert IM service of choice>) would be nice. The pop-up should have transparency so that it does not block the action, and allow the commander to select to proceed or cancel the upgrade with one click.
Despite the unhappy parts, I enjoyed comm'ing tremendously. Here's to wishing that NS2 comm system will make it even more so. =)
Late edit: BTW, I really don't like vox. I understand players always want to be heard, but this really strains the bandwidth, lags the interface and causes your commander to respond even slower (not to mention most times, the calls are for med packs and ammo, but NOT RTs...grr)
Some more interactivity with the commander minimap. If you could zoom and expand that view, and also click/select items of interest in that map just as you would in your main view. Also, to "bookmark" sections of a map so you can scroll through locations of interest(main base, node 1, expansion 1, etc etc....)
I haven't checked this Commander Experience Post for some time, but I have to say you came up with some really nice ideas recently.
Would be really cool if some of that makes it into the game, I actually never played commander much in NS1, because I thought I wouldn't be good at and would get ejected asap, but from what the commander actually did in public games, I can only figure it must be boring, hitting "jump" and spamming meds, it maybe was exciting for the first few times playing it, but after you are into a routine with that you might get bored really fast.
I'm not that familar with commanding, haven't really done it much. And not having the energy to read through this whole thread I appologize if some of the following ideas are present in the thread allready.
What I was thinking was having the commander actually being able to look around the inside of the command center in full highres texture glory, and there being up to three individual screens in the CC.
Each screen would be dynamic meaning when your target reticle hovers over it, you would move a mousepointer on screen instead so you could press the more general buttons in this external (internal) CC view. However if you pressed use key on any of the screens you would zoom in on it, and get the classical full screen view of that screen.
So the "main" center screen would be the classical overview buildscreen with a minimalistic hud this time around, only some general tabs which you could maximize by clicking on them. Rather that the old NS1 clunky buttons buildmenu etc. why not have a rightclick contextmenu for the commander. So if you rightclick an empty area you would get a radial context menu enabling you to either drop a building, equipment, waypoint orders etc. Rightclick on a building and you would get a specific contextmenu for that building, upgrade this and that, issue an order to protect it etc. Rightclick on a marine and you would get the contextmenu to drop medpacks or ammos on him directly, issue orders for him etc. Rightlick an enemy or enemy building and you get a contextmenu to issue an order to attack it etc.
The leftmost screen which can either be accessed by using the use key on it or by using the mousewheel up and down, to cycle through the screens when having them in fullscreen mode. This screen would hold camera feeds from the security cameras all around the installation, these would be tied into the powergrid system so the ones located in infested areas would sease to function. Some of them could even be destrucible and if the commander wanted them back online he could issue a weld order or send some repairbots out to fix them. The commander could cycle through these camera feeds, or select certain ones from a minimap or a dropdown menu with detailed names of their positions on the map. The commander could also access the helmet cam feeds from all the marines in his outfit on this screen, by selecting any one of them from another dropdownlist or on the minimap. This would be another form of recon for the commander, obvious benefits is that it's free in comparison to the more direct approach of the stealth revealing radar ping. At any time the commander could just cycle back to main screen or maybe press a hotkey to specific to the main screen.
The rightmost screen would display heartmonitor type graphics (vitals etc.) for every marine in your outfit, either in a list format or in a grid format, thinking movie "Aliens" style. If a marine is killed the graphic animation would flatline. Perhaps for added purely cosmetical effect you could have it so that when a marine is engaged in a firefight the BPM of his heartmonitor would go up. Then the commander, if he's looking would be aware that medpacks could be needed here in the very near future. Perhaps there could be a little button on each marines heartmonitor to drop medpacks on him or to trigger the booster injection in his suit.
I think this would make for a much more interesting experience as a commander, feeling like you're actually physically present in the game and not just an omnipotent hand from above.
(Sorry if this has been posted/discussed already here... but there are a lot of posts of to read through.)
Coming from an RTS background when I first hopped into the chair, I was hoping to be able to use lots of bindable hotkeys.
Being limited to 1-5 for hotkeys made me a bit claustro(keyboard?)phobic, since I usually use 2-3 marine groups, and each upgradeable building to a hotkey. After using 2 groups for marines, one for armslab, one for obs, I had only one slot left which left me clicking around the map.
Perhaps this was talked about already but having hotkeys 1-9 instead of 1-5 would make it much better. (Am i spoiled by Blizzard RTS's?)
<!--quoteo(post=1720044:date=Jul 29 2009, 09:51 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Jul 29 2009, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like Resource Towers expanded so they are just one structure, but could be upgraded to have up to two auxiliary structures (aux towers) that increased the effectiveness of the RT for a sizeable investment. They would be vulnerable to harassment and you could lose out on your investment if the aux towers are destroyed before they pay themselves off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is the best way to handle it I think, rather than lower performance when it is damaged.
It is a very good point with how if comparing to another RTS, say starcraft, sending in an early attack to destroy resource collectors will really hinder someone. NS has no such correlation. In NS you must either totally destroy it, or you've done nothing.
Upgrades to the RT that increases production(Not too much. I don't think you want to be able to 3x it when it can be one deep in your base, then in comparison ones up front aren't worth much.) that can be destroyed ala Homeworld would be best. Like around +15% production each, and just costs around 25% more of what a whole RT costs each.
<!--quoteo(post=1736560:date=Nov 6 2009, 04:16 PM:name=innociv)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (innociv @ Nov 6 2009, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736560"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Upgrades to the RT that increases production(Not too much. I don't think you want to be able to 3x it when it can be one deep in your base<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It could be cool if not every node had the ability to build these upgrades to avoid this kind of thing from happening and to encourage expanding. For example, the node is base may have 0 upgrade slots, the node in the natural expansion may have one slot, and the nodes on the frontline / in the middle of the map may have 2 or 3 depending on how hard they are to hold.
Comments
think of it this way CCTV security cameras with many mini screens but this one you are able to cap small mini screen on the place that you want to keep on watching
while a bigger screen you can just toggle around
- just an idea -
you can only cap a mini screen on the monitor as long as there is a turrent factory ?
or so on
cheers for reading
How is UWE going to implement the commander so that the commander makes actual strategic decisions?
Two fundamental strategy elements in a traditional RTS are not present NS1, and due to game mechanics, I can assume they're not present in NS2. The first is a system of counters and the second is economic harassment. Having a system of counters is important because it encourages early game scouting, promotes micro during battles, and the strategic decisions that are made based off of unit counters is really what an RTS boils down to. Economic harassment is important because it's the next step up that can separate the good players from the average players. It's another level added to the game, and if harassment is successful enough you can virtually dictate to your opponent how many resources they can gather and what type of resources they are. Harassment adds more unit variety, strategy, and further tests a player's micro abilities.
Part of the reason why I don't think there's a good answer for this question is because NS is not a RTS, it's a FPS/RTS. In NS1 I was really under the impression having this hybrid genre came at a really high cost to the 'RTS' side of NS. For example, NS1 can't really have a good unit counter system because then the FPS players are not having fun. If the commander sees a lerk, and drops the "super lerk damage gun," that lerk player is going to be upset because his own skill level is going to be overpowered by the game and the unit counter system. So you'll have players upset, but without that counter system the commander isn't really making any dynamic strategic decisions based off what they're seeing happen in the game.
Economic harassment was also lacking in NS1 just due to how resources are gathered. Likewise, I don't really have any suggestion on how to improve upon this, but in most RTS's players may be able to take out a number of resources gathers, even if they're able to just have a couple of their units penetrate an opponent's base, which opens up a world of strategic options. In NS1, this is lacking because the resources towers have so much HP that the respective team is usually able intercept or even stop the attack. In an RTS economic harassment is especially important in the early game, but in NS1 the early game is where the problem really shines though. NS1 didn't have 'resource gathers' and destroying buildings was really boring and really time consuming. Once again though, it kind of has to be this way. Having RT's drop just because a marine attacked it for 10 seconds wouldn't be fun either. (/edit: I should add that when a player would remain as a gorge and travel around the map a great opportunity for economic harassment was presented. Unfortunately I saw most gorges go back to skulk especially as NS1 become older.)
Without these strategic elements, which are dynamic in nature since the decisions made are reacting to what the opposing team is doing, the RTS side of NS1 really fell flat. Commanding was degraded into one or two cookie cutter builds with the rest of your time being spent baby sitting your marines via health, ammo, and weapon drops.
How will NS2 be different?
While some more interaction from the comm might be nice, the commander is not supposed to be a direct combatant nor the magical spell caster in the sky. He makes strategic decisions and lets the players on the ground perform the tactics necessary to complete the objectives.
While some more interaction from the comm might be nice, the commander is not supposed to be a direct combatant nor the magical spell caster in the sky. He makes strategic decisions and lets the players on the ground perform the tactics necessary to complete the objectives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first part, unit counters, has nothing to do with the units on the ground other than their personal skill in using weapons. The second part, economic harassment, is more of a team effort but one in which the commander is able to greatly assist. I'm unsure what in my post made you think I wanted the commander to be a direct combatant or a magical spell caster and I attempted to tie in how counters/harassment are lacking in NS1 yet are at the very core of just about every RTS game. I tried to be as clear as I could, but if you could specifically point out what was confusing I may be able to reword it.
The gist of my post was that in NS1 the commander just baby sat marines and followed 'cookie-cutter one size fits all' builds. To explain why I thought this way, I took two core aspects from all strategy games and mentioned how they're virtually nonexistent in NS1 in an attempt to add more depth to commanding in NS2.
Damaged buildings have lower performance. So, in this case of economic harassment, an RT that is damaged will produce less resources than one that is fully functional. Let's say that, between once its health drops below 80%, the production of res ramps down until, say, 50%; past that, performance doesn't drop. At 50% HP, it would mine res at 75% efficiency.
This makes economic harassment a potentially useful tactic.
Damaged buildings have lower performance. So, in this case of economic harassment, an RT that is damaged will produce less resources than one that is fully functional. Let's say that, between once its health drops below 80%, the production of res ramps down until, say, 50%; past that, performance doesn't drop. At 50% HP, it would mine res at 75% efficiency.
This makes economic harassment a potentially useful tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just read that thread. While I don't agree with damaged research buildings researching slower, I love the idea of damaged resource gathering buildings gathering slower. That would definitely encourage early game harassment. A+
Damaged buildings have lower performance. So, in this case of economic harassment, an RT that is damaged will produce less resources than one that is fully functional. Let's say that, between once its health drops below 80%, the production of res ramps down until, say, 50%; past that, performance doesn't drop. At 50% HP, it would mine res at 75% efficiency.
This makes economic harassment a potentially useful tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
interesting. seems like the formula might go something like this:
efficiency = 1 - (missing hp/total hp)^2
eg. 30% lost hp (i.e. 70% hp) = 1 - 0.3*0.3 = 91% efficiency
eg. 50% lost hp (i.e. 50% hp) = 1 - 0.5*0.5 = 75% efficiency
eg. 70~71% lost hp (i.e. 29~30% hp) = 1 - 0.70*0.71 = 50% efficiency (min)
Why not? We already know that there are weld bots in NS2. Having an commander controlled weld bot would encourage the commander to micro (aka adds skill to the RTS side) while encouraging the marines to defend the weld bot and the aliens to attack the weld bot.
It actually sounds like a damn good idea.
It actually sounds like a damn good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ahh yeah i forgot about weldbots! well in that case its probably not an issue :) I just wouldn't want to spend 1/3 or 1/2 the game welding things is all - but if the bot will do it then its another way to add more depth to the game
The class counters is true and it's because class counters in an RTS work on units being identical to eachother. In NS each unit is a player and certainly not identical.
If UWE made the game a bit more complex by introducing more damage types you could have an anti-Lerk gun and an anti-Fade gun. But even if the anti-Lerk gun did less relative damage to a Fade, there would have to be some sort of reason for why. Rock-paper-schissors as a term not only describes the relationship between each type, but how each type beats the other. Once you see the visualisations you can remember it immediately because it 'makes sense' that paper can envelop rock to beat it, and that a rock can blunt a scissor edge, and everyone knows scissors cut paper.
The tricky thing about NS is that each unit has a lower HP-to-cost ratio than in an RTS. In NS the most I've ever seen is 32 players on a server and below 5v5 the game isn't really much fun at all. In a typical RTS you will have upwards of 50 per army. If we say NS is balanced for 6v6 this makes the average NS player 8 times more valuable than your average RTS unit, disregarding equipment loadout and class type. But the thing is they die just as quickly as a single RTS unit.
This is why I think increasing the HP of all players could not only make the game more fun in RTS terms, but this comes at the price of slowing down the game and making the FPS generally less fun. Perhaps you're right in saying that FPS/RTS just aren't meant to be together.
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As an aside, in the original design of Nuclear Dawn there were power generators that controlled the efficiency of buildings. Power could be reduced by hitting buildings, just like in Command & Conquor. But unlike NS it was decided to take away the weapon dropping and let the players purchase them (like in CS), so the commander had less to do than in NS. Later on we came up with an idea to give the commander something to do and that would scale well throughout the round, even initiating the end game. This was much easier to do because the teams were identical.
The idea was 'troop augmentations'. These were essentially very small stat boosts that applied to all players, that in a 1v1 scenario would make a negligible difference but in group situations would make a noticeable difference. Like the Armour and Weapons research in NS they had different levels to research, but unlike the W/A research augs could be turned off and replaced with other aug combinations for different scenarios. But you could only hax a maximum of 3 levels active at any one time. So you could have <i>Nanoshall</i> 1 and <i>Frictionless Magazines</i> 2 active at the same time, or just a single level 3 aug, but you could never have two level 2 augs on at the same time. Then you had three 'aug pools', so the augs operated very similarly to the chambers in NS. You had 9 augs to choose from, but only a maximum of 3 (level 1) augs could be on at a time and each one had to be from a different pool.
Augs could be disabled by power harassment or attacking the upgrade building. This was hopefully going to be what kept the game interesting for commanders all the way through. It was also a good way to differentiate identical teams if they were both in a similar skill bracket and it would have allowed for a lot of flexibility in build orders.
Anyway I hope NS has something fun like this for commanders to do.
I suggested somewhere that the RTs should be upgradable either by just keeping it undamaged or by commander investment. When damaged, the RT starts losing upgrades. I like the res investment variation more as it allows commander to decide whether he invests in economy. I'll try to illustrate a bit.
The system basis is similar as in Starcraft. If you're familiar with the system, replace the upgrade level with worker saturation on chrystals and you're good to go.
A few basic rules:
- Every RT can be upgraded separately, for example levels from 0 (RT is just built) to 3 (max upgrade). Similar level system as armor/weapon upgrades in NS. Every upgrade increases the res income by certain amount.
- Each upgrade costs more and/or provides less extra income. It's more efficient to have 2x lvl 2 nodes than having nodes of lvl 3 and lvl 1.
- The upgrades are visible in the RT. For example a few extra blocks/tubes visualize the upgrade levels. Similar system as AA and normal armory, except the probably easier to recognize.
- When damaged for certain amount, the RT loses an upgrade. This is visualized by the upgrade part falling off from the RT. The effect is similar as downgrading upgrades, so level 3 RT falls back to level 2 without any advantages or exceptions. The only way to regain upgrades is to pay for them and wait for the research finish again.
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So, basically a spread out and evenly upgraded RT section provides maximium income/effiency rate, but it's the most difficult to maintain as aliens can downgrade the nodes by damaging them. Investing in RT upgrades also means more income later on, but less upgrades on marines early on.
A system like this rewards scouting and reacting to the enemy decisions. For example marines might decide to invest little on nodes and a lot on guns and upgrades --> Aliens are defensive early on, but if they survive without massive damage to the nodes, their superior economy pays off later on. Then again if marines invest heavily on economy early on the aliens are the ones playing offensive.
The system is directly copied from Starcraft, but I think it's a good basis at least.
Certainly sounds interesting. While trying to think of how an RTS and FPS could be combined and still fun for everyone I thought of an idea pretty similar to ND's old troop augmentations design except the commander would click on individual marines to select which augs that single marine would receive. They'd provide a small temporary boost and have cooldowns, like a short speed boost to have an FPS player escape danger, but I always thought that sounded kind of lame. It turned the commander is a magical person who could buff his teammates for no logical reason.
The other idea I've always had for an RTS/FPS is to just make a game where the two sides are very separate and really only interact with each other during combat. The commander wouldn't really have any direction over the FPS player's upgrades, gear, or abilities as the individual players would select what they want through some XP or money system. The troops, or very weak NPCs with no offensive attack controlled by the commander, would try to cap points which would provide a money boosts for themselves, but the main purpose would be to supply the commander with income. The commander would then use this income to construct buildings which would allow more powerful NPC's to be built. These NPC's would be something like an anti-troop vehicle where the commander would be able to use this to assist FPS players on the ground, however, the enemy commander may make a tank in an attempt to counter the other commander's anti-troop vehicle. If the commander didn't make a tank, then a soldiers on the ground could upgrade to a rocket launchers, mines, etc and solve the problem themselves.
So you would have two sides within one game and each side would be capable of stopping the other. If their rocket troops are rocking our commander's vehicles then our troops could go sniper. If their snipers are rocking our soldiers, then our commander can get armored vehicles or transports. That's the only way I really envision an RTS/FPS truly working, and from a technical standpoint, it sounds like a very hard game to make. In my opinion, you can't have an RTS without unit counters and you can't have the unit counters tied directly to the FPS players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The system is directly copied from Starcraft, but I think it's a good basis at least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The system you described, or damaged RT's resourcing slower, would be massive improvements of what we saw in NS1. At this point, I'd be willing to have either in the game although I don't think x2 level 2's should be better than a level 3 and 1. I could go into why, but we should probably make a different thread for it.
Ask yourselves questions like:
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?
What do you love and/or hate about commanding?
Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?
Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?
Anything goes. Let's hear your thoughts!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I can say that I have played NS for a long time. Since it was first introduced to the gaming community. While I did command a bit and eventually become good enough to win a match without being cursed at time and time again by the soldiers it was still enough work that I preferred being in the field with the action.
A few things that I personally think could help the newcomers and peak the interest of everyone to both get into the chair and have a fair chance once sitting there are listed below.
1. Hot buttons similar to some of the MMO's out there that highlight or flash when something needs attention or is newly available. Rather than having every marine screaming WEAPONS LEVEL 3 IS AVAILABLE!! simply introduce semitransparent reminder tiles with function to complete certain tasks and/or silence them with the click of a mouse.
2. An easier method of following soldiers. I know one issue that I ran into when I used to command which was some time ago I must admit, was the fact that soldiers could often move out of view before you could click on them or request that the complete something.
3. the ability to enter the action somehow. Maybe provide a scout drone with a simple machine gun so that the commander can scout areas of the map and kill an alien or two before sending in single units to die unknowingly. This may sway the game so the aliens would need something similar or some method of defense against this.
4. Maybe a dummy commander view. So that one unsure of being the commander can sit in and observe a commander in action to see how the game is played out from this view rather than going for it a first time and failing.
basing on my commander experience,
I d like to have more information on a squad when i create one, for example have a summary of each member(hp ammo and pending request).
an in-eye miniview of the selected marine would be perfect to have a in battle view being on my chair.
Defining an equipment set up per squad with a signal on my screen if this the squad is missing something or if the order I gave them is done.
I d like by the way to give a sequence of orders to a squad so when one is done the next one shows up.
Player Squad Allocation and Med/Ammo pack Issuing
Commanding players could be made easier if the commander had a tab located on the left perhaps that is slightly translucent which just lists players health and Ammo as a percentage on two respective bars that changes from Green to yellow orange then red. this can be used as a quick way to organise teams as players could be selected from it then ctrl # to issue into squads also this would be used so if a commander has to issue a med pack or Ammunition it can be dropped onto there name in the tab bar so they need not be distracted by aim med packs or locating players. Health and ammunition alerts can be highlighted by a Green or yellow blinking light located at the end of each bar health and ammunition respectively. This could also be used as a quick way of jumping to a marine by selecting there name.
a similar function like this is normally seen in many Sci-Fi movies such as Alien Independence day and such just to display the players Vital signs and Ammunition count
As I’m sure many of you have played MMO style games such as Wow and War where the healers can manage the teams health and such by just by highlighting the bar and working there magic.
This could alleviate some pressure from the commanders chasing players and also encourage them to help multiple people at once across the map. Which would stop allot of people raging at the commander.
Upgrades
as far as upgrades go I never found it to be to much of an issue but perhaps making the buildings have a Auto select key example using the - = [ ] ' # keys to bring the selected buildings menu up. Maybe a verbal warning when the upgrade is completed could be implemented or an upgrade percentage bar located to show active upgrades.
New Commanders
for new commanders the game could have a Recommended upgrade that takes new players along the Tech tree and teaches them the basics or acts as a reminder after they have completed a possible tutorial (I’ am quiet a fan of the idea of a commanding tutorial, I really liked how Americas army had in game licences, so perhaps people could not enter the Command chair until they have passed the tutorial for the command chair?) this stops people who have no experience bringing the entire team down.
as far as the HUD goes stream lining the HUD would be quiet nice but a simpler option would just be to have players be able to Customise the interface for themselves in there Options menu outside of the game i.e. Changing size and positions of objects and menus to account for people with poor eyesight etc.
Waypoints
I’m sure many of you have played the Dawn of war games and other such RTS were they can allocate multiple orders to a squad by holding the SHIFT key and selecting what you want them to do this could be implemented in a similar function for the commanders orders such as, Go hear Weld this door shut repair the RT etc.
The issue that was raised about people ignoring the waypoints this was mostly because they had know incentive to ask for orders because there was no reward in it so how about this, its already been declared people have a personal resource used for buying themselves weapon upgrades, so as an incentive for a players to follow orders is to have a resource reward implemented for following orders.
To stop this being spammed a risk value could be issued to so the further away from marine start the higher the reward this encourages people to follow orders into potentially dangerous areas. This could be scaled at 5/10/15 15 resources being issued for commanders issuing orders into an alien hive, 10 to critical locations and 5 for resource towers. Also to avoid needless spamming have the reward on a hidden timer so after following and completing an order they will not receive a bonus until a fixed period of time has passed I.e. 1 minute.
With a little incentive I believe it could make people function more as a team and follow commanders orders more closely.
Well that’s just a few suggestions.
as a commander I would like to optimize the communication between the marines and I.
Something great would be to choose to which squad I am talking to.
For example, by default I speak to all marines. With a hotkey #1, only squad 1 hears what I say, with a hotkey #2 squad2, etc.
The commander would not spoil the 'all marines' channel and would be more precise on the orders he gives.
To be more clear, following is a scenario example:
I want to proceed to a rt flash attack with my squad1 while the squad2 is keeping the attention of the Kharaas.
I tell squad1 (via squad1 channel) to come to base for equipment and what rt to destroy and I tell squad2 (via squad2 channel) where to go to settle down and build a pg.
Conclusion:
Both squads stay focused on what they do and the commander speech does not bother marines trying to listen to alien movements.
Details:
For a communication optimization purpose, the squad should know if the commander is speaking to them through the squad channel or the overall channel.
Suggestion:
Maybe the marines could switch between squad channel and overall channel.
In squad channel only members of the squad hear what is said.
no.
Multiple lanes of communication only work if they 1) always stay open and 2) you have access to all of them.
Sacrificing gameplay for atmosphere is a no-no. Making marines unable to communicate with the rest of the team is a pain and doesn't add much to the game.
Providing a way to organize communication would be nice, such as all-talk, squad talk, local talk, etc. and some nice color-coding, but hindered communication is a bad idea.
The alien team doesn't get weld bots... so are you suggesting the building efficiency only works on Marines structures? that would definitely make the game more interesting. I mean in order to get what the marines get for free *I'm assuming weldbots don't cost any res, though it'd be interesting if they did* aliens have to spend two resources to heal their structures. Man power, sacrificed to dedicate a player to being a gorge which is a less effective combat unit, and the individual resources of the player becoming a gorge. Personally it doesn't really matter to me, I'll be a gorge permanently anyway, cause that's how I roll.
(on comm side) it has a STEEP learning curve and depending on opponents you may not have time to learn while aliens are advancing and your teammates WILL (intentionally or not) "punish" you if you don't perform well, this tends to intimidate people from playing comm and pushes many of those who try away from getting more experience to improve
(on the player side) Playing comm has issues, either the units don't behave as you want, or they're not as good as you are or you're simply "not in the mood" to play comm.
If you allow a player to "suggest" actions to the comm directly (with hotkeys or something, granted I understand the difficulty of what I'm proposing, especially this late in dev) you can avert both issues. If a "field leader" could suggest upgrades (which would then highlight in the comm interface or "suggest" other actions, none of which actually implement, but instead indicate the action to the comm), you give experienced players a way to "not play comm" while still lending their expertise to an eager noob. Marines always had an issue finding GOOD comms. I'm not sure how this balances out with both teams having comms now, but letting a player in the field "help" the comm is one way to let weary comms play a "soldier" while not hurting the team (as much), it can also help overcome the daunting interface issue.
What I liked:
I enjoyed commanding in NS because of the opportunity to influence the overarching strategy of the team in a game and then watching it unfold. E.g. Like deciding whether the team does a strategic move of the base / do an early game rush / seige-in until tech gets up to speed / covert lone wolf seiges on alien bases / etc. It will be even more fantastic if some of the more popular strategies could be communicated to (new) marines in some way so that less words (and time) would be needed to explain the team game plan (because the game moves really FAST).
What I did not like:
When there are few players on a server, commanding becomes a hop-in-and-place-your-order deal. Maybe there should be some sort of system whereby if the minimum # of players is not reached, the comm chair is unavailable and have players manage their res usage individually / by voting?
On large maps, the map and mouse movements are slow, especially when you are overseas and the nearest dedicated server is 200 ping away. Perhaps the number of functions could be reduced and more of the graphical elements could be coded to work completely offline to optimise the bandwidth usage?
Hard to target /view areas were irritating. Maybe an ability to rotate the map (and maybe have a 3D wireframe view option?) by dragging your mouse would be nice.
Upgrades are important, but you don't want to worry about making those one-of-many clicks when your team is under attack (which is constant). A queue system which will prompt you when the next upgrade opporunity is available (kinda like MSN Messenger / Skype / <insert IM service of choice>) would be nice. The pop-up should have transparency so that it does not block the action, and allow the commander to select to proceed or cancel the upgrade with one click.
Despite the unhappy parts, I enjoyed comm'ing tremendously. Here's to wishing that NS2 comm system will make it even more so. =)
Late edit: BTW, I really don't like vox. I understand players always want to be heard, but this really strains the bandwidth, lags the interface and causes your commander to respond even slower (not to mention most times, the calls are for med packs and ammo, but NOT RTs...grr)
Would be really cool if some of that makes it into the game, I actually never played commander much in NS1, because I thought I wouldn't be good at and would get ejected asap, but from what the commander actually did in public games, I can only figure it must be boring, hitting "jump" and spamming meds, it maybe was exciting for the first few times playing it, but after you are into a routine with that you might get bored really fast.
Let's hope for the best !
What I was thinking was having the commander actually being able to look around the inside of the command center in full highres texture glory, and there being up to three individual screens in the CC.
Each screen would be dynamic meaning when your target reticle hovers over it, you would move a mousepointer on screen instead so you could press the more general buttons in this external (internal) CC view. However if you pressed use key on any of the screens you would zoom in on it, and get the classical full screen view of that screen.
So the "main" center screen would be the classical overview buildscreen with a minimalistic hud this time around, only some general tabs which you could maximize by clicking on them. Rather that the old NS1 clunky buttons buildmenu etc. why not have a rightclick contextmenu for the commander. So if you rightclick an empty area you would get a radial context menu enabling you to either drop a building, equipment, waypoint orders etc. Rightclick on a building and you would get a specific contextmenu for that building, upgrade this and that, issue an order to protect it etc. Rightclick on a marine and you would get the contextmenu to drop medpacks or ammos on him directly, issue orders for him etc. Rightlick an enemy or enemy building and you get a contextmenu to issue an order to attack it etc.
The leftmost screen which can either be accessed by using the use key on it or by using the mousewheel up and down, to cycle through the screens when having them in fullscreen mode.
This screen would hold camera feeds from the security cameras all around the installation, these would be tied into the powergrid system so the ones located in infested areas would sease to function. Some of them could even be destrucible and if the commander wanted them back online he could issue a weld order or send some repairbots out to fix them. The commander could cycle through these camera feeds, or select certain ones from a minimap or a dropdown menu with detailed names of their positions on the map. The commander could also access the helmet cam feeds from all the marines in his outfit on this screen, by selecting any one of them from another dropdownlist or on the minimap. This would be another form of recon for the commander, obvious benefits is that it's free in comparison to the more direct approach of the stealth revealing radar ping. At any time the commander could just cycle back to main screen or maybe press a hotkey to specific to the main screen.
The rightmost screen would display heartmonitor type graphics (vitals etc.) for every marine in your outfit, either in a list format or in a grid format, thinking movie "Aliens" style. If a marine is killed the graphic animation would flatline. Perhaps for added purely cosmetical effect you could have it so that when a marine is engaged in a firefight the BPM of his heartmonitor would go up. Then the commander, if he's looking would be aware that medpacks could be needed here in the very near future. Perhaps there could be a little button on each marines heartmonitor to drop medpacks on him or to trigger the booster injection in his suit.
I think this would make for a much more interesting experience as a commander, feeling like you're actually physically present in the game and not just an omnipotent hand from above.
Well that's my 2 cents.
Coming from an RTS background when I first hopped into the chair, I was hoping to be able to use lots of bindable hotkeys.
Being limited to 1-5 for hotkeys made me a bit claustro(keyboard?)phobic, since I usually use 2-3 marine groups, and each upgradeable building to a hotkey.
After using 2 groups for marines, one for armslab, one for obs, I had only one slot left which left me clicking around the map.
Perhaps this was talked about already but having hotkeys 1-9 instead of 1-5 would make it much better. (Am i spoiled by Blizzard RTS's?)
This is the best way to handle it I think, rather than lower performance when it is damaged.
It is a very good point with how if comparing to another RTS, say starcraft, sending in an early attack to destroy resource collectors will really hinder someone. NS has no such correlation. In NS you must either totally destroy it, or you've done nothing.
Upgrades to the RT that increases production(Not too much. I don't think you want to be able to 3x it when it can be one deep in your base, then in comparison ones up front aren't worth much.) that can be destroyed ala Homeworld would be best.
Like around +15% production each, and just costs around 25% more of what a whole RT costs each.
It could be cool if not every node had the ability to build these upgrades to avoid this kind of thing from happening and to encourage expanding. For example, the node is base may have 0 upgrade slots, the node in the natural expansion may have one slot, and the nodes on the frontline / in the middle of the map may have 2 or 3 depending on how hard they are to hold.